New Legends
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@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Legends:
@nflman2033 said in New Legends:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Legends:
@nflman2033 said in New Legends:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Legends:
@BIGHOOV2713 said in New Legends:
@nflman2033 said in New Legends:
@BIGHOOV2713 said in New Legends:
TBH, his career WAR is better than that of Burnett, Wood, Lee Smith, Billy Wagner, Konerko, Hoffman, Benito Santiago etc
Well it's not a fair to compare WAR from position player to a Relief Pitcher. Elite relief pitchers get to what 4 or 5 a season tops?
And how many position players end up with a 4-5+ WAR every season? According to Fangraphs, of the top 60 players in WAR this past season, 38 position players had a WAR of over 4 while the other 22 were starting pitchers. So I get that there is an unfair comparison there to relief pitchers. I know the more games you play, the more chances you have to accrue WAR, but you also have more chances to decrease your WAR as well.
So I'll amend my previous post and leave it to this. If Konerko gets a 98, and Roberts was considered a half a win better a year over his career (with almost 3,000 fewer ABs), then what rating does Roberts deserve? I believe he is a "poor man's" Roberto Alomar.
And TBH, I think his card will be fire if they represent him properly (and possibly give him SS eligibility since he started 44 of 70 games his rookie season there!)
I think we all know that the only reason Konerko got a 98 is because of how late in the year he was released, and SDS just wanting to give people a semi-usable card.
If they release a 2005 Roberts card, then I don’t see the point in giving him a career Signature Series type card.
Correct, he and Olerud are guys who dont need one, their singled best season is head and shoulders above their other seasons that SS is pointless.
I do think Olerud should get one though. He had two 8.1 fWAR seasons with a few 4-5 fWAR seasons mixed in. He also had a career 130 wRC+ and total fWAR of 57.3
2 best seasons 93 and 98. 1.072 OPS and .998. Those two seasons are virtually identical. I dont see how a SS card could improve on his 93 card. Other than to inflate the cards to being better than they really were. Heck more of a case for Robert's to get his 50 steal 2007 speed with his 2005 hitting and fielding.
Way too many SS cards already, no reason for these guys who have single season Diamond already.
Olerud actually had a near hall of fame level career though, Roberts didn’t even come close.
Having a career total of 57.3 fWAR deserves a Signature Series card. Having two 8 fWAR seasons deserves an SS card.
More than likely we’ll get a gold Olerud, and a diamond SS card.
I guess in a world where Harold Baines is in the Hall, then yes. But only 2 time All Star, 1 batting title. 1 top 5 MVP vote and only 1 other season where he got votes he finished 12th. I don't think he was that close. He got 4 HOF votes and was off the ballot after only 1 year. He was a very good player, but I dont think he was close to HOF. Hell Baines got 28 votes the year Olerud got 4. John Franco missed the cut with 27.
My point is that why bother with a SS card when his single season of 1993 would yield his highest abilities of Contact, power, vision and fielding. I hate the SS concept. A SS card is going to be identical to what his 1993 card will be, but not be his 1993 card.
Also have they even said SS cards are returning, they dropped the immortals after 1 year.
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@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Legends:
@nflman2033 said in New Legends:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Legends:
@nflman2033 said in New Legends:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Legends:
@BIGHOOV2713 said in New Legends:
@nflman2033 said in New Legends:
@BIGHOOV2713 said in New Legends:
TBH, his career WAR is better than that of Burnett, Wood, Lee Smith, Billy Wagner, Konerko, Hoffman, Benito Santiago etc
Well it's not a fair to compare WAR from position player to a Relief Pitcher. Elite relief pitchers get to what 4 or 5 a season tops?
And how many position players end up with a 4-5+ WAR every season? According to Fangraphs, of the top 60 players in WAR this past season, 38 position players had a WAR of over 4 while the other 22 were starting pitchers. So I get that there is an unfair comparison there to relief pitchers. I know the more games you play, the more chances you have to accrue WAR, but you also have more chances to decrease your WAR as well.
So I'll amend my previous post and leave it to this. If Konerko gets a 98, and Roberts was considered a half a win better a year over his career (with almost 3,000 fewer ABs), then what rating does Roberts deserve? I believe he is a "poor man's" Roberto Alomar.
And TBH, I think his card will be fire if they represent him properly (and possibly give him SS eligibility since he started 44 of 70 games his rookie season there!)
I think we all know that the only reason Konerko got a 98 is because of how late in the year he was released, and SDS just wanting to give people a semi-usable card.
If they release a 2005 Roberts card, then I don’t see the point in giving him a career Signature Series type card.
Correct, he and Olerud are guys who dont need one, their singled best season is head and shoulders above their other seasons that SS is pointless.
I do think Olerud should get one though. He had two 8.1 fWAR seasons with a few 4-5 fWAR seasons mixed in. He also had a career 130 wRC+ and total fWAR of 57.3
2 best seasons 93 and 98. 1.072 OPS and .998. Those two seasons are virtually identical. I dont see how a SS card could improve on his 93 card. Other than to inflate the cards to being better than they really were. Heck more of a case for Robert's to get his 50 steal 2007 speed with his 2005 hitting and fielding.
Way too many SS cards already, no reason for these guys who have single season Diamond already.
Olerud actually had a near hall of fame level career though, Roberts didn’t even come close.
Having a career total of 57.3 fWAR deserves a Signature Series card. Having two 8 fWAR seasons deserves an SS card.
More than likely we’ll get a gold Olerud, and a diamond SS card.
Before we [censored] on Roberts, lets not forget he was hit very hard by the injury bug and out of 14 seasons, he only really had 6 "full seasons". Going by career WAR per game, Roberts is sitting at .021 compared to Roberto Alomar who is at .028.
I'm not saying Roberts was HOF worthy, but he was a very good player when healthy. Definitely a "what could have been" candidate the likes of Eric Davis, Mark Fidrych, Darryl Strawberry and Doc Gooden.
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@nflman2033 said in New Legends:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Legends:
@nflman2033 said in New Legends:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Legends:
@nflman2033 said in New Legends:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Legends:
@BIGHOOV2713 said in New Legends:
@nflman2033 said in New Legends:
@BIGHOOV2713 said in New Legends:
TBH, his career WAR is better than that of Burnett, Wood, Lee Smith, Billy Wagner, Konerko, Hoffman, Benito Santiago etc
Well it's not a fair to compare WAR from position player to a Relief Pitcher. Elite relief pitchers get to what 4 or 5 a season tops?
And how many position players end up with a 4-5+ WAR every season? According to Fangraphs, of the top 60 players in WAR this past season, 38 position players had a WAR of over 4 while the other 22 were starting pitchers. So I get that there is an unfair comparison there to relief pitchers. I know the more games you play, the more chances you have to accrue WAR, but you also have more chances to decrease your WAR as well.
So I'll amend my previous post and leave it to this. If Konerko gets a 98, and Roberts was considered a half a win better a year over his career (with almost 3,000 fewer ABs), then what rating does Roberts deserve? I believe he is a "poor man's" Roberto Alomar.
And TBH, I think his card will be fire if they represent him properly (and possibly give him SS eligibility since he started 44 of 70 games his rookie season there!)
I think we all know that the only reason Konerko got a 98 is because of how late in the year he was released, and SDS just wanting to give people a semi-usable card.
If they release a 2005 Roberts card, then I don’t see the point in giving him a career Signature Series type card.
Correct, he and Olerud are guys who dont need one, their singled best season is head and shoulders above their other seasons that SS is pointless.
I do think Olerud should get one though. He had two 8.1 fWAR seasons with a few 4-5 fWAR seasons mixed in. He also had a career 130 wRC+ and total fWAR of 57.3
2 best seasons 93 and 98. 1.072 OPS and .998. Those two seasons are virtually identical. I dont see how a SS card could improve on his 93 card. Other than to inflate the cards to being better than they really were. Heck more of a case for Robert's to get his 50 steal 2007 speed with his 2005 hitting and fielding.
Way too many SS cards already, no reason for these guys who have single season Diamond already.
Olerud actually had a near hall of fame level career though, Roberts didn’t even come close.
Having a career total of 57.3 fWAR deserves a Signature Series card. Having two 8 fWAR seasons deserves an SS card.
More than likely we’ll get a gold Olerud, and a diamond SS card.
I guess in a world where Harold Baines is in the Hall, then yes. But only 2 time All Star, 1 batting title. 1 top 5 MVP vote and only 1 other season where he got votes he finished 12th. I don't think he was that close. He got 4 HOF votes and was off the ballot after only 1 year. He was a very good player, but I dont think he was close to HOF. Hell Baines got 28 votes the year Olerud got 4. John Franco missed the cut with 27.
My point is that why bother with a SS card when his single season of 1993 would yield his highest abilities of Contact, power, vision and fielding. I hate the SS concept. A SS card is going to be identical to what his 1993 card will be, but not be his 1993 card.
Also have they even said SS cards are returning, they dropped the immortals after 1 year.
Normally the bar for HoF is around 60-70 career fWAR, which is why I said Olerud had a near HoF career. It’s pretty universally agreed that Baines doesn’t deserve to be in the Hall, but that’s beside the point. Olerud had a much better career than baines regardless.
Olerud’s two 8.1 fWAR seasons were quite different though. In 1993, he had a 179 wRC+ and -6.4 on Fangraphs’ Def metric.
In 1998 he had a 167 wRC+ and +5.8 on Fangraphs’ Def metric.1993 was all offense and no defense, while 1998 was a mix of very good offense and solid defense. Putting those together along with the rest of his career would give a card that looks much different than just his 1993 card.
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@BIGHOOV2713 said in New Legends:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Legends:
@nflman2033 said in New Legends:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Legends:
@nflman2033 said in New Legends:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Legends:
@BIGHOOV2713 said in New Legends:
@nflman2033 said in New Legends:
@BIGHOOV2713 said in New Legends:
TBH, his career WAR is better than that of Burnett, Wood, Lee Smith, Billy Wagner, Konerko, Hoffman, Benito Santiago etc
Well it's not a fair to compare WAR from position player to a Relief Pitcher. Elite relief pitchers get to what 4 or 5 a season tops?
And how many position players end up with a 4-5+ WAR every season? According to Fangraphs, of the top 60 players in WAR this past season, 38 position players had a WAR of over 4 while the other 22 were starting pitchers. So I get that there is an unfair comparison there to relief pitchers. I know the more games you play, the more chances you have to accrue WAR, but you also have more chances to decrease your WAR as well.
So I'll amend my previous post and leave it to this. If Konerko gets a 98, and Roberts was considered a half a win better a year over his career (with almost 3,000 fewer ABs), then what rating does Roberts deserve? I believe he is a "poor man's" Roberto Alomar.
And TBH, I think his card will be fire if they represent him properly (and possibly give him SS eligibility since he started 44 of 70 games his rookie season there!)
I think we all know that the only reason Konerko got a 98 is because of how late in the year he was released, and SDS just wanting to give people a semi-usable card.
If they release a 2005 Roberts card, then I don’t see the point in giving him a career Signature Series type card.
Correct, he and Olerud are guys who dont need one, their singled best season is head and shoulders above their other seasons that SS is pointless.
I do think Olerud should get one though. He had two 8.1 fWAR seasons with a few 4-5 fWAR seasons mixed in. He also had a career 130 wRC+ and total fWAR of 57.3
2 best seasons 93 and 98. 1.072 OPS and .998. Those two seasons are virtually identical. I dont see how a SS card could improve on his 93 card. Other than to inflate the cards to being better than they really were. Heck more of a case for Robert's to get his 50 steal 2007 speed with his 2005 hitting and fielding.
Way too many SS cards already, no reason for these guys who have single season Diamond already.
Olerud actually had a near hall of fame level career though, Roberts didn’t even come close.
Having a career total of 57.3 fWAR deserves a Signature Series card. Having two 8 fWAR seasons deserves an SS card.
More than likely we’ll get a gold Olerud, and a diamond SS card.
Before we [censored] on Roberts, lets not forget he was hit very hard by the injury bug and out of 14 seasons, he only really had 6 "full seasons". Going by career WAR per game, Roberts is sitting at .021 compared to Roberto Alomar who is at .028.
I'm not saying Roberts was HOF worthy, but he was a very good player when healthy. Definitely a "what could have been" candidate the likes of Eric Davis, Mark Fidrych, Darryl Strawberry and Doc Gooden.
Not trying to dump all over Roberts, but we can only use the stats he put up, not what he could’ve put up.
I agree that he was a solid player when healthy, but he really only had one stand out season, with the rest just being pretty good.
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@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Legends:
@nflman2033 said in New Legends:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Legends:
@nflman2033 said in New Legends:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Legends:
@nflman2033 said in New Legends:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Legends:
@BIGHOOV2713 said in New Legends:
@nflman2033 said in New Legends:
@BIGHOOV2713 said in New Legends:
TBH, his career WAR is better than that of Burnett, Wood, Lee Smith, Billy Wagner, Konerko, Hoffman, Benito Santiago etc
Well it's not a fair to compare WAR from position player to a Relief Pitcher. Elite relief pitchers get to what 4 or 5 a season tops?
And how many position players end up with a 4-5+ WAR every season? According to Fangraphs, of the top 60 players in WAR this past season, 38 position players had a WAR of over 4 while the other 22 were starting pitchers. So I get that there is an unfair comparison there to relief pitchers. I know the more games you play, the more chances you have to accrue WAR, but you also have more chances to decrease your WAR as well.
So I'll amend my previous post and leave it to this. If Konerko gets a 98, and Roberts was considered a half a win better a year over his career (with almost 3,000 fewer ABs), then what rating does Roberts deserve? I believe he is a "poor man's" Roberto Alomar.
And TBH, I think his card will be fire if they represent him properly (and possibly give him SS eligibility since he started 44 of 70 games his rookie season there!)
I think we all know that the only reason Konerko got a 98 is because of how late in the year he was released, and SDS just wanting to give people a semi-usable card.
If they release a 2005 Roberts card, then I don’t see the point in giving him a career Signature Series type card.
Correct, he and Olerud are guys who dont need one, their singled best season is head and shoulders above their other seasons that SS is pointless.
I do think Olerud should get one though. He had two 8.1 fWAR seasons with a few 4-5 fWAR seasons mixed in. He also had a career 130 wRC+ and total fWAR of 57.3
2 best seasons 93 and 98. 1.072 OPS and .998. Those two seasons are virtually identical. I dont see how a SS card could improve on his 93 card. Other than to inflate the cards to being better than they really were. Heck more of a case for Robert's to get his 50 steal 2007 speed with his 2005 hitting and fielding.
Way too many SS cards already, no reason for these guys who have single season Diamond already.
Olerud actually had a near hall of fame level career though, Roberts didn’t even come close.
Having a career total of 57.3 fWAR deserves a Signature Series card. Having two 8 fWAR seasons deserves an SS card.
More than likely we’ll get a gold Olerud, and a diamond SS card.
I guess in a world where Harold Baines is in the Hall, then yes. But only 2 time All Star, 1 batting title. 1 top 5 MVP vote and only 1 other season where he got votes he finished 12th. I don't think he was that close. He got 4 HOF votes and was off the ballot after only 1 year. He was a very good player, but I dont think he was close to HOF. Hell Baines got 28 votes the year Olerud got 4. John Franco missed the cut with 27.
My point is that why bother with a SS card when his single season of 1993 would yield his highest abilities of Contact, power, vision and fielding. I hate the SS concept. A SS card is going to be identical to what his 1993 card will be, but not be his 1993 card.
Also have they even said SS cards are returning, they dropped the immortals after 1 year.
Normally the bar for HoF is around 60-70 career fWAR, which is why I said Olerud had a near HoF career. It’s pretty universally agreed that Baines doesn’t deserve to be in the Hall, but that’s beside the point. Olerud had a much better career than baines regardless.
Olerud’s two 8.1 fWAR seasons were quite different though. In 1993, he had a 179 wRC+ and -6.4 on Fangraphs’ Def metric.
In 1998 he had a 167 wRC+ and +5.8 on Fangraphs’ Def metric.1993 was all offense and no defense, while 1998 was a mix of very good offense and solid defense. Putting those together along with the rest of his career would give a card that looks much different than just his 1993 card.
Yeah, I see the defense case, but since its 1B I wouldn't care that much, but you are right that is a case for a SS, even though I think SS cards are dumb.
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@A_PerfectGame said in New Legends:
Sorry but brian Roberts is no legend...
You know what he is tho...a steroid user.
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@Matt_42187 said in New Legends:
@A_PerfectGame said in New Legends:
Sorry but brian Roberts is no legend...
You know what he is tho...a steroid user.
This is a really good point. He's a confirmed Mitchell Report guy who admitted to it. Along with some of the BALCO/Mitchell names we got in '18 and '19, maybe this'll all lead to some of the big names we think are off limits someday soon.
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@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Legends:
@BIGHOOV2713 said in New Legends:
@nflman2033 said in New Legends:
@BIGHOOV2713 said in New Legends:
TBH, his career WAR is better than that of Burnett, Wood, Lee Smith, Billy Wagner, Konerko, Hoffman, Benito Santiago etc
Well it's not a fair to compare WAR from position player to a Relief Pitcher. Elite relief pitchers get to what 4 or 5 a season tops?
And how many position players end up with a 4-5+ WAR every season? According to Fangraphs, of the top 60 players in WAR this past season, 38 position players had a WAR of over 4 while the other 22 were starting pitchers. So I get that there is an unfair comparison there to relief pitchers. I know the more games you play, the more chances you have to accrue WAR, but you also have more chances to decrease your WAR as well.
So I'll amend my previous post and leave it to this. If Konerko gets a 98, and Roberts was considered a half a win better a year over his career (with almost 3,000 fewer ABs), then what rating does Roberts deserve? I believe he is a "poor man's" Roberto Alomar.
And TBH, I think his card will be fire if they represent him properly (and possibly give him SS eligibility since he started 44 of 70 games his rookie season there!)
I think we all know that the only reason Konerko got a 98 is because of how late in the year he was released, and SDS just wanting to give people a semi-usable card.
If they release a 2005 Roberts card, then I don’t see the point in giving him a career Signature Series type card. Similar to how we got a 2009 Zobrist card this year, but no Signature Series Zobrist.
Same goes for Matt Kemp, Hershiser to an extent, Giambi, Sutton, etc. Those who didn’t end up with a SS card that people thought deserved one were the same way. The only player that probably should have got one but didn’t was Trammell IMO, but only because he’s the only HOFer to not get one.
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@the_dragon1912 said in New Legends:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Legends:
@BIGHOOV2713 said in New Legends:
@nflman2033 said in New Legends:
@BIGHOOV2713 said in New Legends:
TBH, his career WAR is better than that of Burnett, Wood, Lee Smith, Billy Wagner, Konerko, Hoffman, Benito Santiago etc
Well it's not a fair to compare WAR from position player to a Relief Pitcher. Elite relief pitchers get to what 4 or 5 a season tops?
And how many position players end up with a 4-5+ WAR every season? According to Fangraphs, of the top 60 players in WAR this past season, 38 position players had a WAR of over 4 while the other 22 were starting pitchers. So I get that there is an unfair comparison there to relief pitchers. I know the more games you play, the more chances you have to accrue WAR, but you also have more chances to decrease your WAR as well.
So I'll amend my previous post and leave it to this. If Konerko gets a 98, and Roberts was considered a half a win better a year over his career (with almost 3,000 fewer ABs), then what rating does Roberts deserve? I believe he is a "poor man's" Roberto Alomar.
And TBH, I think his card will be fire if they represent him properly (and possibly give him SS eligibility since he started 44 of 70 games his rookie season there!)
I think we all know that the only reason Konerko got a 98 is because of how late in the year he was released, and SDS just wanting to give people a semi-usable card.
If they release a 2005 Roberts card, then I don’t see the point in giving him a career Signature Series type card. Similar to how we got a 2009 Zobrist card this year, but no Signature Series Zobrist.
Same goes for Matt Kemp, Hershiser to an extent, Giambi, Sutton, etc. Those who didn’t end up with a SS card that people thought deserved one were the same way. The only player that probably should have got one but didn’t was Trammell IMO, but only because he’s the only HOFer to not get one.
Edit: and Spahn
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I’m thinking barry bonds might be “in the cards” for lack of a better term. Pun intended.
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My sources with knowledge of SDS' thinking have indicated that a few people are slated for release in MLB 20. they are as follows
- Jeremy Giami
- The other Billy Hamilton
- Junior Spivey
- Pokey Reese
- JJ Putz
- Bobby Abreu
- Chone Figgins
- Dizzy Dean
- Dazzy Vance
- Joey Joe Joe Jr Shabadoo
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@the_dragon1912 said in New Legends:
@the_dragon1912 said in New Legends:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Legends:
@BIGHOOV2713 said in New Legends:
@nflman2033 said in New Legends:
@BIGHOOV2713 said in New Legends:
TBH, his career WAR is better than that of Burnett, Wood, Lee Smith, Billy Wagner, Konerko, Hoffman, Benito Santiago etc
Well it's not a fair to compare WAR from position player to a Relief Pitcher. Elite relief pitchers get to what 4 or 5 a season tops?
And how many position players end up with a 4-5+ WAR every season? According to Fangraphs, of the top 60 players in WAR this past season, 38 position players had a WAR of over 4 while the other 22 were starting pitchers. So I get that there is an unfair comparison there to relief pitchers. I know the more games you play, the more chances you have to accrue WAR, but you also have more chances to decrease your WAR as well.
So I'll amend my previous post and leave it to this. If Konerko gets a 98, and Roberts was considered a half a win better a year over his career (with almost 3,000 fewer ABs), then what rating does Roberts deserve? I believe he is a "poor man's" Roberto Alomar.
And TBH, I think his card will be fire if they represent him properly (and possibly give him SS eligibility since he started 44 of 70 games his rookie season there!)
I think we all know that the only reason Konerko got a 98 is because of how late in the year he was released, and SDS just wanting to give people a semi-usable card.
If they release a 2005 Roberts card, then I don’t see the point in giving him a career Signature Series type card. Similar to how we got a 2009 Zobrist card this year, but no Signature Series Zobrist.
Same goes for Matt Kemp, Hershiser to an extent, Giambi, Sutton, etc. Those who didn’t end up with a SS card that people thought deserved one were the same way. The only player that probably should have got one but didn’t was Trammell IMO, but only because he’s the only HOFer to not get one.
Edit: and Spahn
Edit:
Orlando Cepeda
Don Sutton
Hal Newhouser -
Will Matt Antonelli be added in the legends roster?
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@Von_Rotten said in New Legends:
Will Matt Antonelli be added in the legends roster?
Or Ben Zobrist, Jeremy Hellickson, Gregor Blanco, Nick Hundley etc...
Lol
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Olerud was a class act all the way. Towards the tail end of his career this starting Mets 1B would ride the subway to Shea Stadium just because he could do it without anyone recognizing him. I love that he will be coming into the game.
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Where’s the kirby Puckett card been hiding ?
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Dave Stieb is missing.
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A admin locked this topic on
