Fun vs Realism

SDS

Back playing this game a bit today, I am reminded of the challenge to creating a video game based on professional sport.

To me it seems to boil down to making the game fun to play vs making the game realistic.

No doubt, SDS has done their share of market research to determine what we the customers want in a video game, but I am curious. How many of you folks still playing this game want the game to be as realistic as possible? How many would prefer the game be primarily fun to play?

My take on it is that the trend in this game has been realism at the expense of fun.

Thoughts?

SDS

I enjoy the game but wished the cards/ratings were more realistic. The fact that some FS pitchers are rated better than HOF pitchers is just dumb. I understand though that making money is the business of this game and making these absurd cards are probably helping. Maybe?

SDS

Baseball is a game of highs and lows. For that reason, it isn’t always fun. I think the folks at SDS have done a good job of mirroring that. If the game was always fun, it wouldn’t be baseball.

SDS

Game seems better to me now than it did when I quit playing six weeks ago. Maybe it’s because I’ve given up taking it seriously. I have complained for both sides over the years, wanting user input to be the determining factor and wanting a game that accurately simulated real baseball. I’ve come to the conclusion that you simply cannot have both, no matter how ideal that would be.
In order to balance the game and give pitching a chance to play even vaguely true to real life, you need the RNG simulation factors like good/good line outs. Otherwise, there’s no way to have hitting be truly rewarding to user input without making pitching irrelevant. It’s simply too easy to make good contact with the ball in this game and if you reward good contact every time, the game becomes an awful home run derby where pitching is irrelevant. We saw it earlier this year and it was not good.
In years past we’ve seen OP pitching as well on certain patches where it was impossible to react quick enough to a pitch, or the PCI was too small and had too great a range of movement at a too sensitive setting to consistently make contact. Seems like the SDS way, where sometimes you do everything right and get told to GFYS actually provides the most realistic and least frustrating baseball experience, now that I look at the bigger picture.

SDS

Ideally I want a balance of both. I think this year is a better balance then last year. If they cleanup a few things like check swings and such, it's actually a really good game.

SDS

Let me go on a little mini rant, the strike out spin move celebration got to go, I want a baseball sim not a gymnastics game.I want an opt out of pitching emotion like hitting has an opt out for bat flips.

Félix Hernández is defying the laws of physics after every K, how bout an emotion slider????

I have no desire to toss out the emotion in the game I get that some like it but give me the option to at least tone it down just like you do with bat flips.
I want my baseball game to look like baseball.

SDS

Interesting responses, guys.

Also, as NC State pointed out, there is the need to generate income with micro transactions, and ensure longevity of the game by not having things too easy.

I think I probably want more fun gameplay than “realistic” gameplay, because as has been pointed out, baseball in real life is really very difficult, AND all of us seem to define realism in the context of this game differently.

For example, I just got shut out 1-0 in a conquest stronghold game vs the Orioles. My team is far superior card-wise. I can accept that the game needs to pose a challenge as difficulty levels increase, and sometimes this comes at the expense of realism.

You know, Chris Paddack can’t throw a strike but bronze Keegan Akin throws dots, O’s hitters all with amazing plate discipline and contact, etc.

When I come up against the programming of the game, it really is not much fun for me and lately that just leads to me turning it off to do something else.

SDS

I would like a consistent experience. I hate how pitch speeds fluctuate from game to game. I know human error and perception is involved, but it is obvious that the connection fidelity you have with your opponent is probably the greatest determining factor as to what kind of game you’ll have. I hate that some games I can sit fast ball, get fastball, and still be very late. And then the next game, against the same pitcher, throwing to the same spots, I can be very early on the same pitch.

I loved the Moonshot event for obvious reasons. In ranked, hitting feels weird. All the batter and pitcher stats mixed together makes for an unsatisfying experience. Timing windows and contact results fluctuate so greatly that I can’t trust anything I do in the game.

SDS

@Doppelganger39 said in Fun vs Realism:

Let me go on a little mini rant, the strike out spin move celebration got to go, I want a baseball sim not a gymnastics game.I want an opt out of pitching emotion like hitting has an opt out for bat flips.

Félix Hernández is defying the laws of physics after every K, how bout an emotion slider????

I have no desire to toss out the emotion in the game I get that some like it but give me the option to at least tone it down just like you do with bat flips.
I want my baseball game to look like baseball.

It would be nice to see some specific animations for players, Eckersley shooting his finger like a gun after a big K, or that bat flip from Bautista. Having every single player do a Carlton Fisk animation on every foul ball down the line isn’t necessary though and doesn’t add a lot to the game. The right touches added to the right players can help with immersion and realism though. It’s awesome to see Rickey popping his collar on a no doubter and if used correctly, I’m all for it.

SDS

@vagimon said in Fun vs Realism:

I would like a consistent experience. I hate how pitch speeds fluctuate from game to game. I know human error and perception is involved, but it is obvious that the connection fidelity you have with your opponent is probably the greatest determining factor as to what kind of game you’ll have. I hate that some games I can sit fast ball, get fastball, and still be very late. And then the next game, against the same pitcher, throwing to the same spots, I can be very early on the same pitch.

I loved the Moonshot event for obvious reasons. In ranked, hitting feels weird. All the batter and pitcher stats mixed together makes for an unsatisfying experience. Timing windows and contact results fluctuate so greatly that I can’t trust anything I do in the game.

Yep. I want 95 to be 95 every game. Not turning on 99 easily one game than getting 90 blown by me the next. Real baseball has evolved basically into k or hr. I can adjust to whatever they want but consistency with pitch speeds, user input, etc would help a lot.

SDS

@vagimon said in Fun vs Realism:

I would like a consistent experience. I hate how pitch speeds fluctuate from game to game. I know human error and perception is involved, but it is obvious that the connection fidelity you have with your opponent is probably the greatest determining factor as to what kind of game you’ll have. I hate that some games I can sit fast ball, get fastball, and still be very late. And then the next game, against the same pitcher, throwing to the same spots, I can be very early on the same pitch.

I loved the Moonshot event for obvious reasons. In ranked, hitting feels weird. All the batter and pitcher stats mixed together makes for an unsatisfying experience. Timing windows and contact results fluctuate so greatly that I can’t trust anything I do in the game.

I agree 💯 %.

In fact I think the inconsistency of gameplay between different opponents, modes, pitchers, and difficulties, particularly with what you are mentioning, is the #1 factor in my dissatisfaction with the game.

Well said.

SDS

I want the game to be as realistic as possible. If it's not realistic then I won't have any fun. Other than a few quirks here and there, like the total insanity that often occurs when the ball hits the pitcher, the show does a pretty good job of giving me the kind of experience I'm after.

SDS

@ComebackLogic said in Fun vs Realism:

@Doppelganger39 said in Fun vs Realism:

Let me go on a little mini rant, the strike out spin move celebration got to go, I want a baseball sim not a gymnastics game.I want an opt out of pitching emotion like hitting has an opt out for bat flips.

Félix Hernández is defying the laws of physics after every K, how bout an emotion slider????

I have no desire to toss out the emotion in the game I get that some like it but give me the option to at least tone it down just like you do with bat flips.
I want my baseball game to look like baseball.

It would be nice to see some specific animations for players, Eckersley shooting his finger like a gun after a big K, or that bat flip from Bautista. Having every single player do a Carlton Fisk animation on every foul ball down the line isn’t necessary though and doesn’t add a lot to the game. The right touches added to the right players can help with immersion and realism though. It’s awesome to see Rickey popping his collar on a no doubter and if used correctly, I’m all for it.

I’ve mentioned this before, but the game is overproduced in many instances. Like the Carlton Fisk wave the foul home run deal. It’s always a foul in that animation (at least that I’ve noticed). And how do they determine no doubt HR versus regular. I’ve hit some absolute bombs that don’t get the no doubt animation.

One that drives me up the wall. Have you played MTO? The emotional reactions there are way over the top. Strikeout the CPU in the sixth inning of game 74 and he’ll get frustrated like it’s game 7 of the World Series. It’s also kind of silly to see the same animation for winning each playoff round when you might do it in one sitting that last a couple hours.

SDS

@whitejw98 said in Fun vs Realism:

I want the game to be as realistic as possible. If it's not realistic then I won't have any fun. Other than a few quirks here and there, like the total insanity that often occurs when the ball hits the pitcher, the show does a pretty good job of giving me the kind of experience I'm after.

It’s been toned down a bit, but the pitcher wall is still a bit too much of an influence.

SDS

Early in this games cycle, every relief pitcher that came into the game dropped his glove when he got to the mound which was VERY unrealstic. Now its not there anymore (at least I haven't seen it) The Fisk wave undoubtedly ends up as a foul ball so I don't understand why this is even in there. Comeback makes a lot of great points here and should be considered by SDS.

SDS

I’d like it to be mostly realistic, but still be fun. Where hitting is rewarded and meat balls aren’t forced by the cpu. I’d like the animations to be more realistic ( to stop cheesing) and situations to be play out appropriately. I don’t want 1-0 games and I don’t want 17-15 games, but balanced to where they may happen but most games are 6-4, 8-2 types

SDS

I seem to get rewarded on more late/weak contact oppose to good/good in reality it should be hard to make good contact but I see guys with average batting and low vision hitting moon shots with PCI covering the plate I doubt that is realistic not saying those guys don't pull balls here and there but hitting should be harder and more rewarding not a bigger PCI for below average hitters or -22 lunch angle on high fast balls I play offline with multiple ppl in franchise mode and diamond dynasty noticed but can be unrealistic at times

SDS

@halfbutt said in Fun vs Realism:

Back playing this game a bit today, I am reminded of the challenge to creating a video game based on professional sport.

To me it seems to boil down to making the game fun to play vs making the game realistic.

No doubt, SDS has done their share of market research to determine what we the customers want in a video game, but I am curious. How many of you folks still playing this game want the game to be as realistic as possible? How many would prefer the game be primarily fun to play?

My take on it is that the trend in this game has been realism at the expense of fun.

Thoughts?

Try and play the Japanese spirits baseball game for ps4, ive had it for 2 months and only played the show 3x since, was playing daily but its the silly bugs this game has... the Japanese baseball is so much better, same controls, same everything just in Japanese

SDS

@bhall09 said in Fun vs Realism:

@ComebackLogic said in Fun vs Realism:

@Doppelganger39 said in Fun vs Realism:

Let me go on a little mini rant, the strike out spin move celebration got to go, I want a baseball sim not a gymnastics game.I want an opt out of pitching emotion like hitting has an opt out for bat flips.

Félix Hernández is defying the laws of physics after every K, how bout an emotion slider????

I have no desire to toss out the emotion in the game I get that some like it but give me the option to at least tone it down just like you do with bat flips.
I want my baseball game to look like baseball.

It would be nice to see some specific animations for players, Eckersley shooting his finger like a gun after a big K, or that bat flip from Bautista. Having every single player do a Carlton Fisk animation on every foul ball down the line isn’t necessary though and doesn’t add a lot to the game. The right touches added to the right players can help with immersion and realism though. It’s awesome to see Rickey popping his collar on a no doubter and if used correctly, I’m all for it.

I’ve mentioned this before, but the game is overproduced in many instances. Like the Carlton Fisk wave the foul home run deal. It’s always a foul in that animation (at least that I’ve noticed). And how do they determine no doubt HR versus regular. I’ve hit some absolute bombs that don’t get the no doubt animation.

One that drives me up the wall. Have you played MTO? The emotional reactions there are way over the top. Strikeout the CPU in the sixth inning of game 74 and he’ll get frustrated like it’s game 7 of the World Series. It’s also kind of silly to see the same animation for winning each playoff round when you might do it in one sitting that last a couple hours.

Yeah, like I said, I get what they’re going for with the added emotion and I’m not against it, but it should be used more appropriately in order to achieve the desired effect. If you can’t code it properly, don’t just half [censored] it.