Kemp vs trout is a joke
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@DriveByTrucker17 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@pbake12 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
It also makes no sense that Prime Kemp is a 97, but Prime Zobrist is a 94.
This! Kemp is so overrated! Best 5 years of careers (prime) they had the following WAR: Zobrist = 31.8 (age 28-32), Kemp = 18.5 (age 23-27). Then besides those prime years Kemp has been at or below replacement value.
Exactly.
Kemp’s 2011 season wasn’t even better than Zobrist’s 2009 season.
But hey, let’s give him a 97 because it’ll make him be worth more on the market.
Kemp is higher rated because overall is based on a player's skills, not their WAR calculation, which is why a prime aged Kemp is indisputably a higher overall than a prime aged Zobrist.
Kemp is going to have superior power and contact ratings, Zobrist will have better discipline rating -- and those power and contact ratings contribute much more to overall than discipline.
Zobrist's WAR benefitted massively from defense. Kemp meanwhile was a superior athlete with superior hit and power tools which translate to a better overall rating.
WAR =/= Skills.
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@PennStateFencer said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
I can’t wait until Trout retires and gets back in the game. He is going to have 150 attributes across the board.
SDS might not be around by the time he retires...
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@notoriousHEB said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@pbake12 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
It also makes no sense that Prime Kemp is a 97, but Prime Zobrist is a 94.
This! Kemp is so overrated! Best 5 years of careers (prime) they had the following WAR: Zobrist = 31.8 (age 28-32), Kemp = 18.5 (age 23-27). Then besides those prime years Kemp has been at or below replacement value.
Exactly.
Kemp’s 2011 season wasn’t even better than Zobrist’s 2009 season.
But hey, let’s give him a 97 because it’ll make him be worth more on the market.
Kemp is higher rated because overall is based on a player's skills, not their WAR calculation, which is why a prime aged Kemp is indisputably a higher overall than a prime aged Zobrist.
Kemp is going to have superior power and contact ratings, Zobrist will have better discipline rating -- and those power and contact ratings contribute much more to overall than discipline.
Zobrist's WAR benefitted massively from defense. Kemp meanwhile was a superior athlete with superior hit and power tools which translate to a better overall rating.
WAR =/= Skills.
Then that Signature series Rick Ankiel should have been a 99 last year!! Skill is measured by stats in baseball, so this makes no sense.
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@Harryhukari33 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@Chuck_Dizzle29 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@challengerjs said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@dark_Jsaac said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
SDS clearly can’t figure it out. Kemp was never better in his career than trout is now but he’s rated higher lmaoooooo
Makes sense why the game doesn’t work
THANK YOU. Every year this kinda stuff drives me insane. Especially when you don’t have money to spend on the game and have to grind for LS cards.
Last year there was about 100 players who were never as good as Trout is right now, but had better cards than his Live Series. And now this year every average minor league player apparently deserves a card as good as Trout. Makes no sense.
It does when you hold Trout to a three year weighted average in a rating system that uses players from different eras that did things like hit over .400 for a season and hit 60 HRs.
The nature of these Ultimate Team modes is to keep you playing and microtansactions. LS cards aren't meant to be end game cards.
I will say this though, with all the active quirks he has he doesn't play like a 95. We all know he's good for either a Prime, Award, or SS card that will be a 99 and be in the discussion for best card in the game.
Trout, Griffey, and Mays 99 cards will be right there with Mantle as the best overall 5 tool cards.
Agreed, but Pujols’ 1B card will be on par with those cards. Plus he won’t be in a crowded outfield haha! The 99 Pujols cards have always been in my top 3 every year vs all other cards because I love his swing in the game.
It also helps that I was born in STL and grew up a cards fan.
Also, don’t forget honus Wagner. He will be up there too.
I only left Pujols of because of the 5 tool part of the equation and my St. Louis bias
. I did sleep on Honus though, weird considering I have his draft rights in our custom league 🤪 -
Literally the most miserable human on this forum. Good game OP
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@notoriousHEB said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@pbake12 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
It also makes no sense that Prime Kemp is a 97, but Prime Zobrist is a 94.
This! Kemp is so overrated! Best 5 years of careers (prime) they had the following WAR: Zobrist = 31.8 (age 28-32), Kemp = 18.5 (age 23-27). Then besides those prime years Kemp has been at or below replacement value.
Exactly.
Kemp’s 2011 season wasn’t even better than Zobrist’s 2009 season.
But hey, let’s give him a 97 because it’ll make him be worth more on the market.
Kemp is higher rated because overall is based on a player's skills, not their WAR calculation, which is why a prime aged Kemp is indisputably a higher overall than a prime aged Zobrist.
Kemp is going to have superior power and contact ratings, Zobrist will have better discipline rating -- and those power and contact ratings contribute much more to overall than discipline.
Zobrist's WAR benefitted massively from defense. Kemp meanwhile was a superior athlete with superior hit and power tools which translate to a better overall rating.
WAR =/= Skills.
It’s almost like Matt Kemp shouldn’t have 87 fielding, and Zobrist should have higher than 86 fielding.
The gap between Kemp’s and Zobrist’s discipline should be much, much larger.
The only year Kemp had >9% walk rate was 2011. Zobrist had 15.2% in 2009, 14.0% in 2010, and 14.5% in 2012.Their vision gap should be higher as well. Kemp’s best K% was 20.8 in 2009. After that, it was consistently 22-25%. Zobrist was consistently 16-17% in his prime, with 2011 being the only outlier at 19%.
If their vision and discipline attributes were more accurate, then the overall ratings would be much more accurate as well, even if those attributes don’t factor into ratings as much as contact or power.
I guess this isn’t much of a surprise though, considering Zobrist is the #1 example of a criminally underrated player.
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@pbake12 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@notoriousHEB said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@pbake12 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
It also makes no sense that Prime Kemp is a 97, but Prime Zobrist is a 94.
This! Kemp is so overrated! Best 5 years of careers (prime) they had the following WAR: Zobrist = 31.8 (age 28-32), Kemp = 18.5 (age 23-27). Then besides those prime years Kemp has been at or below replacement value.
Exactly.
Kemp’s 2011 season wasn’t even better than Zobrist’s 2009 season.
But hey, let’s give him a 97 because it’ll make him be worth more on the market.
Kemp is higher rated because overall is based on a player's skills, not their WAR calculation, which is why a prime aged Kemp is indisputably a higher overall than a prime aged Zobrist.
Kemp is going to have superior power and contact ratings, Zobrist will have better discipline rating -- and those power and contact ratings contribute much more to overall than discipline.
Zobrist's WAR benefitted massively from defense. Kemp meanwhile was a superior athlete with superior hit and power tools which translate to a better overall rating.
WAR =/= Skills.
Then that Signature series Rick Ankiel should have been a 99 last year!! Skill is measured by stats in baseball, so this makes no sense.
Right... Stats like superior batting average... Way more HRs... More than double the the stolen bases...
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@Therealest_JB said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
I hate to break it to you, but Trout uses HGH
Home grown hamburgers?
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@Nanthrax_1 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@Therealest_JB said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
I hate to break it to you, but Trout uses HGH
Home grown hamburgers?
Hydroponically grown herbs.
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I think the biggest reason Kemp is higher than Zobrist is because Zobrist’s defensive contributions are so much harder to measure than Kemp’s. Remember, Zobrist was the ultimate utility guy.
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@Original_Quad said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
I think the biggest reason Kemp is higher than Zobrist is because Zobrist’s defensive contributions are so much harder to measure than Kemp’s. Remember, Zobrist was the ultimate utility guy.
You’re not wrong, but that’s just another reason why SDS needs to update their rating calculations.
Zobrist was by far the better player, both prime and career. There’s no reason for Kemp to be higher than him, especially not by three points.
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So since Trout will go down as arguably the best player to ever play and he’s in his prime right now, then we should have NO cards higher than a 94 but him.
Let’s think before we start spitting out complaints. Trout will have his 99.
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@DriveByTrucker17 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@Original_Quad said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
I think the biggest reason Kemp is higher than Zobrist is because Zobrist’s defensive contributions are so much harder to measure than Kemp’s. Remember, Zobrist was the ultimate utility guy.
You’re not wrong, but that’s just another reason why SDS needs to update their rating calculations.
Zobrist was by far the better player, both prime and career. There’s no reason for Kemp to be higher than him, especially not by three points.
Yup. This is a case where Kemp was an extremely overrated player (1 elite season and a couple good ones, that's it) and Zobrist was a criminally underrated player.
It pays to play in LA and date Rihanna
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Isn't it weird how particular people get about card ratings? Especially outfielders. Always gotta compare it to LS Trout.
Why don't we get a thread about every player that is at or above 95?
Paul Molitor is a 96?!?! He's no Trout!
Ozzie Smith is a 95?!? Is SDS saying Ozzie Smith = Mike Trout???
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@PennStateFencer said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@the_dragon1912 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@PennStateFencer said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
I can’t wait until Trout retires and gets back in the game. He is going to have 150 attributes across the board.
And then we won’t have these stupid arguments comparing live series players to flaskbacks/legends when LS cards have shown they aren’t supposed to be for anything other than investing/collections
And BR of course. Otherwise, who would ever use a silver or gold live series in their lineup after day one?
I would. It’s fun to mix things up now and then and theme teams do that for me. It’s impossible to make full squads of some teams without resorting to silvers and golds now and then.
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That’s not a joke, here’s a joke: what’s the difference between a donkey and a bmw?
The donkeys (censored) is on the outside
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@sersimpleton said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
That’s not a joke, here’s a joke: what’s the difference between a donkey and a bmw?
The donkeys (censored) is on the outside
Haha nice. I was gonna say, the answer sure isn't either using turn signals
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@DriveByTrucker17 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@pbake12 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
It also makes no sense that Prime Kemp is a 97, but Prime Zobrist is a 94.
This! Kemp is so overrated! Best 5 years of careers (prime) they had the following WAR: Zobrist = 31.8 (age 28-32), Kemp = 18.5 (age 23-27). Then besides those prime years Kemp has been at or below replacement value.
Exactly.
Kemp’s 2011 season wasn’t even better than Zobrist’s 2009 season.
But hey, let’s give him a 97 because it’ll make him be worth more on the market.
Matt Kemp 2011: .324/.399/.586: 39 HR, 40 SB. Led the NL is runs (115), HR, RBI (126), OPS+ and total bases. AND won a gold glove. All while playing CF for 159 games.
Zobrist 2009: .297/.405/.543: 27 HR, 17 SB. Lower across the board - literally every single category.
Somehow Zobrist has a higher WAR that year.
If there's ever been a better argument for the over-inflated value if WAR, it's when Zobrist has a higher WAR in 2009 than Kemp had in 2011, when Kemp is ahead of him in ever single category except OBP...which he trails by .006.
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@hegone44 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@pbake12 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
It also makes no sense that Prime Kemp is a 97, but Prime Zobrist is a 94.
This! Kemp is so overrated! Best 5 years of careers (prime) they had the following WAR: Zobrist = 31.8 (age 28-32), Kemp = 18.5 (age 23-27). Then besides those prime years Kemp has been at or below replacement value.
Exactly.
Kemp’s 2011 season wasn’t even better than Zobrist’s 2009 season.
But hey, let’s give him a 97 because it’ll make him be worth more on the market.
Matt Kemp 2011: .324/.399/.586: 39 HR, 40 SB. Led the NL is runs (115), HR, RBI (126), OPS+ and total bases. AND won a gold glove. All while playing CF for 159 games.
Zobrist 2009: .297/.405/.543: 27 HR, 17 SB. Lower across the board - literally every single category.
Somehow Zobrist has a higher WAR that year.
If there's ever been a better argument for the over-inflated value if WAR, it's when Zobrist has a higher WAR in 2009 than Kemp had in 2011, when Kemp is ahead of him in ever single category except OBP...which he trails by .006.
You can't use only offensive numbers and say WAR is evil. Look up their defensive stats too.
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@Chuck_Dizzle29 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@hegone44 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@pbake12 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
It also makes no sense that Prime Kemp is a 97, but Prime Zobrist is a 94.
This! Kemp is so overrated! Best 5 years of careers (prime) they had the following WAR: Zobrist = 31.8 (age 28-32), Kemp = 18.5 (age 23-27). Then besides those prime years Kemp has been at or below replacement value.
Exactly.
Kemp’s 2011 season wasn’t even better than Zobrist’s 2009 season.
But hey, let’s give him a 97 because it’ll make him be worth more on the market.
Matt Kemp 2011: .324/.399/.586: 39 HR, 40 SB. Led the NL is runs (115), HR, RBI (126), OPS+ and total bases. AND won a gold glove. All while playing CF for 159 games.
Zobrist 2009: .297/.405/.543: 27 HR, 17 SB. Lower across the board - literally every single category.
Somehow Zobrist has a higher WAR that year.
If there's ever been a better argument for the over-inflated value if WAR, it's when Zobrist has a higher WAR in 2009 than Kemp had in 2011, when Kemp is ahead of him in ever single category except OBP...which he trails by .006.
You can't use only offensive numbers and say WAR is evil. Look up their defensive stats too.
But it is a good argument for why Kemp is higher. Hitting stats contribute more to a players ranking in-game then defense does.
