Kemp vs trout is a joke
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@DriveByTrucker17 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
It also makes no sense that Prime Kemp is a 97, but Prime Zobrist is a 94.
This! Kemp is so overrated! Best 5 years of careers (prime) they had the following WAR: Zobrist = 31.8 (age 28-32), Kemp = 18.5 (age 23-27). Then besides those prime years Kemp has been at or below replacement value.
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@the_dragon1912 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@PennStateFencer said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
I can’t wait until Trout retires and gets back in the game. He is going to have 150 attributes across the board.
And then we won’t have these stupid arguments comparing live series players to flaskbacks/legends when LS cards have shown they aren’t supposed to be for anything other than investing/collections
And BR of course. Otherwise, who would ever use a silver or gold live series in their lineup after day one?
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@pbake12 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
It also makes no sense that Prime Kemp is a 97, but Prime Zobrist is a 94.
This! Kemp is so overrated! Best 5 years of careers (prime) they had the following WAR: Zobrist = 31.8 (age 28-32), Kemp = 18.5 (age 23-27). Then besides those prime years Kemp has been at or below replacement value.
Exactly.
Kemp’s 2011 season wasn’t even better than Zobrist’s 2009 season.
But hey, let’s give him a 97 because it’ll make him be worth more on the market.
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It’s a game. New cards go up, not down. Also, que the “why would SDS put out a Kemp that isn’t good enough to make my lineup” responses if cards didn’t go up through out the year.
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It’s a different kind of card. People need to stop comparing bodies of work for players on the cards. Some of them represent moments in time, some careers, and live series will never be the best cards overall.
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@pbake12 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
It also makes no sense that Prime Kemp is a 97, but Prime Zobrist is a 94.
This! Kemp is so overrated! Best 5 years of careers (prime) they had the following WAR: Zobrist = 31.8 (age 28-32), Kemp = 18.5 (age 23-27). Then besides those prime years Kemp has been at or below replacement value.
The defensive ratings on Kemp are overrated. Kemp did have better offensive numbers, but Zobrist crushes him in WAR due to defensive ability.
I said this in another thread, Zobrist is a 94 because he's a 2B primary where Speed is valued more. Move his primary to a corner IF or OF spot and he's a 96-97 easy.
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I hate to break it to you, but Trout uses HGH
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@Chuck_Dizzle29 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@challengerjs said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@dark_Jsaac said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
SDS clearly can’t figure it out. Kemp was never better in his career than trout is now but he’s rated higher lmaoooooo
Makes sense why the game doesn’t work
THANK YOU. Every year this kinda stuff drives me insane. Especially when you don’t have money to spend on the game and have to grind for LS cards.
Last year there was about 100 players who were never as good as Trout is right now, but had better cards than his Live Series. And now this year every average minor league player apparently deserves a card as good as Trout. Makes no sense.
It does when you hold Trout to a three year weighted average in a rating system that uses players from different eras that did things like hit over .400 for a season and hit 60 HRs.
The nature of these Ultimate Team modes is to keep you playing and microtansactions. LS cards aren't meant to be end game cards.
I will say this though, with all the active quirks he has he doesn't play like a 95. We all know he's good for either a Prime, Award, or SS card that will be a 99 and be in the discussion for best card in the game.
Trout, Griffey, and Mays 99 cards will be right there with Mantle as the best overall 5 tool cards.
Agreed, but Pujols’ 1B card will be on par with those cards. Plus he won’t be in a crowded outfield haha! The 99 Pujols cards have always been in my top 3 every year vs all other cards because I love his swing in the game.
It also helps that I was born in STL and grew up a cards fan.
Also, don’t forget honus Wagner. He will be up there too.
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Trout will get a 99, he always does. Do you want them to release 99 OVR cards in the first two months like last year, or do you want them to slowly increase the OVR like this year?
Ya'll need to make up your minds on what you want.
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@DriveByTrucker17 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@pbake12 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
It also makes no sense that Prime Kemp is a 97, but Prime Zobrist is a 94.
This! Kemp is so overrated! Best 5 years of careers (prime) they had the following WAR: Zobrist = 31.8 (age 28-32), Kemp = 18.5 (age 23-27). Then besides those prime years Kemp has been at or below replacement value.
Exactly.
Kemp’s 2011 season wasn’t even better than Zobrist’s 2009 season.
But hey, let’s give him a 97 because it’ll make him be worth more on the market.
Kemp is higher rated because overall is based on a player's skills, not their WAR calculation, which is why a prime aged Kemp is indisputably a higher overall than a prime aged Zobrist.
Kemp is going to have superior power and contact ratings, Zobrist will have better discipline rating -- and those power and contact ratings contribute much more to overall than discipline.
Zobrist's WAR benefitted massively from defense. Kemp meanwhile was a superior athlete with superior hit and power tools which translate to a better overall rating.
WAR =/= Skills.
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@PennStateFencer said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
I can’t wait until Trout retires and gets back in the game. He is going to have 150 attributes across the board.
SDS might not be around by the time he retires...
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@notoriousHEB said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@pbake12 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
It also makes no sense that Prime Kemp is a 97, but Prime Zobrist is a 94.
This! Kemp is so overrated! Best 5 years of careers (prime) they had the following WAR: Zobrist = 31.8 (age 28-32), Kemp = 18.5 (age 23-27). Then besides those prime years Kemp has been at or below replacement value.
Exactly.
Kemp’s 2011 season wasn’t even better than Zobrist’s 2009 season.
But hey, let’s give him a 97 because it’ll make him be worth more on the market.
Kemp is higher rated because overall is based on a player's skills, not their WAR calculation, which is why a prime aged Kemp is indisputably a higher overall than a prime aged Zobrist.
Kemp is going to have superior power and contact ratings, Zobrist will have better discipline rating -- and those power and contact ratings contribute much more to overall than discipline.
Zobrist's WAR benefitted massively from defense. Kemp meanwhile was a superior athlete with superior hit and power tools which translate to a better overall rating.
WAR =/= Skills.
Then that Signature series Rick Ankiel should have been a 99 last year!! Skill is measured by stats in baseball, so this makes no sense.
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@Harryhukari33 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@Chuck_Dizzle29 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@challengerjs said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@dark_Jsaac said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
SDS clearly can’t figure it out. Kemp was never better in his career than trout is now but he’s rated higher lmaoooooo
Makes sense why the game doesn’t work
THANK YOU. Every year this kinda stuff drives me insane. Especially when you don’t have money to spend on the game and have to grind for LS cards.
Last year there was about 100 players who were never as good as Trout is right now, but had better cards than his Live Series. And now this year every average minor league player apparently deserves a card as good as Trout. Makes no sense.
It does when you hold Trout to a three year weighted average in a rating system that uses players from different eras that did things like hit over .400 for a season and hit 60 HRs.
The nature of these Ultimate Team modes is to keep you playing and microtansactions. LS cards aren't meant to be end game cards.
I will say this though, with all the active quirks he has he doesn't play like a 95. We all know he's good for either a Prime, Award, or SS card that will be a 99 and be in the discussion for best card in the game.
Trout, Griffey, and Mays 99 cards will be right there with Mantle as the best overall 5 tool cards.
Agreed, but Pujols’ 1B card will be on par with those cards. Plus he won’t be in a crowded outfield haha! The 99 Pujols cards have always been in my top 3 every year vs all other cards because I love his swing in the game.
It also helps that I was born in STL and grew up a cards fan.
Also, don’t forget honus Wagner. He will be up there too.
I only left Pujols of because of the 5 tool part of the equation and my St. Louis bias
. I did sleep on Honus though, weird considering I have his draft rights in our custom league 🤪 -
Literally the most miserable human on this forum. Good game OP
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@notoriousHEB said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@pbake12 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
It also makes no sense that Prime Kemp is a 97, but Prime Zobrist is a 94.
This! Kemp is so overrated! Best 5 years of careers (prime) they had the following WAR: Zobrist = 31.8 (age 28-32), Kemp = 18.5 (age 23-27). Then besides those prime years Kemp has been at or below replacement value.
Exactly.
Kemp’s 2011 season wasn’t even better than Zobrist’s 2009 season.
But hey, let’s give him a 97 because it’ll make him be worth more on the market.
Kemp is higher rated because overall is based on a player's skills, not their WAR calculation, which is why a prime aged Kemp is indisputably a higher overall than a prime aged Zobrist.
Kemp is going to have superior power and contact ratings, Zobrist will have better discipline rating -- and those power and contact ratings contribute much more to overall than discipline.
Zobrist's WAR benefitted massively from defense. Kemp meanwhile was a superior athlete with superior hit and power tools which translate to a better overall rating.
WAR =/= Skills.
It’s almost like Matt Kemp shouldn’t have 87 fielding, and Zobrist should have higher than 86 fielding.
The gap between Kemp’s and Zobrist’s discipline should be much, much larger.
The only year Kemp had >9% walk rate was 2011. Zobrist had 15.2% in 2009, 14.0% in 2010, and 14.5% in 2012.Their vision gap should be higher as well. Kemp’s best K% was 20.8 in 2009. After that, it was consistently 22-25%. Zobrist was consistently 16-17% in his prime, with 2011 being the only outlier at 19%.
If their vision and discipline attributes were more accurate, then the overall ratings would be much more accurate as well, even if those attributes don’t factor into ratings as much as contact or power.
I guess this isn’t much of a surprise though, considering Zobrist is the #1 example of a criminally underrated player.
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@pbake12 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@notoriousHEB said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@pbake12 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
It also makes no sense that Prime Kemp is a 97, but Prime Zobrist is a 94.
This! Kemp is so overrated! Best 5 years of careers (prime) they had the following WAR: Zobrist = 31.8 (age 28-32), Kemp = 18.5 (age 23-27). Then besides those prime years Kemp has been at or below replacement value.
Exactly.
Kemp’s 2011 season wasn’t even better than Zobrist’s 2009 season.
But hey, let’s give him a 97 because it’ll make him be worth more on the market.
Kemp is higher rated because overall is based on a player's skills, not their WAR calculation, which is why a prime aged Kemp is indisputably a higher overall than a prime aged Zobrist.
Kemp is going to have superior power and contact ratings, Zobrist will have better discipline rating -- and those power and contact ratings contribute much more to overall than discipline.
Zobrist's WAR benefitted massively from defense. Kemp meanwhile was a superior athlete with superior hit and power tools which translate to a better overall rating.
WAR =/= Skills.
Then that Signature series Rick Ankiel should have been a 99 last year!! Skill is measured by stats in baseball, so this makes no sense.
Right... Stats like superior batting average... Way more HRs... More than double the the stolen bases...
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@Therealest_JB said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
I hate to break it to you, but Trout uses HGH
Home grown hamburgers?
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@Nanthrax_1 said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
@Therealest_JB said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
I hate to break it to you, but Trout uses HGH
Home grown hamburgers?
Hydroponically grown herbs.
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I think the biggest reason Kemp is higher than Zobrist is because Zobrist’s defensive contributions are so much harder to measure than Kemp’s. Remember, Zobrist was the ultimate utility guy.
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@Original_Quad said in Kemp vs trout is a joke:
I think the biggest reason Kemp is higher than Zobrist is because Zobrist’s defensive contributions are so much harder to measure than Kemp’s. Remember, Zobrist was the ultimate utility guy.
You’re not wrong, but that’s just another reason why SDS needs to update their rating calculations.
Zobrist was by far the better player, both prime and career. There’s no reason for Kemp to be higher than him, especially not by three points.
