WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL
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@iCards1 said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
I’m shocked the OP hasn’t advocated for pitcher wins as a useful stat yet.
Pitcher wins is about how well the team can hit and score Runs, The best pitcher will usually have the Best ERA especially in the NL. Take last year how well DeGroom pitch despite the wins. You can have a pitcher win 17 games but have an ERA plus 4 or high 3's just because the team gives that pitcher run support. You have to look at that pitchers W-L with ERA, WHIP, BB. K's. Just like hitters all the stats matter when it comes to comparing players. Look at a pitchers Run support as well.
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@dbarmonstar said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
@iCards1 said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
I’m shocked the OP hasn’t advocated for pitcher wins as a useful stat yet.
Pitcher wins is about how well the team can hit and score Runs, The best pitcher will usually have the Best ERA especially in the NL. Take last year how well DeGroom pitch despite the wins. You can have a pitcher win 17 games but have an ERA plus 4 or high 3's just because the team gives that pitcher run support. You have to look at that pitchers W-L with ERA, WHIP, BB. K's. Just like hitters all the stats matter when it comes to comparing players. Look at a pitchers Run support as well.
I'll take ERA+ because it's park adjusted and FIP to get a better sense of pitcher performance
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@iCards1 said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
I’m shocked the OP hasn’t advocated for pitcher wins as a useful stat yet.
I never base anything off of one stat or a single formula. I do not think some of you understand that just looking at WAR pitching or Hitting at not taking into account other stats or researching the game in the time that the player played and just assuming WAR got it right, WAR does not take in a lot of factors of the ERA in which that player played.
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@Nanthrax_1 said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
@dbarmonstar said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
@iCards1 said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
I’m shocked the OP hasn’t advocated for pitcher wins as a useful stat yet.
Pitcher wins is about how well the team can hit and score Runs, The best pitcher will usually have the Best ERA especially in the NL. Take last year how well DeGroom pitch despite the wins. You can have a pitcher win 17 games but have an ERA plus 4 or high 3's just because the team gives that pitcher run support. You have to look at that pitchers W-L with ERA, WHIP, BB. K's. Just like hitters all the stats matter when it comes to comparing players. Look at a pitchers Run support as well.
I'll take ERA+ because it's park adjusted and FIP to get a better sense of pitcher performance
I agree with that
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@dbarmonstar said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
I do not think some of you understand that just looking at WAR pitching or Hitting at not taking into account other stats
I do not think some of you understand that WAR takes into account other stats.
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@SaveFarris said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
@dbarmonstar said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
I do not think some of you understand that just looking at WAR pitching or Hitting at not taking into account other stats
I do not think some of you understand that WAR takes into account other stats.
You can live and die by WAR but it is flawed when people only use WAR to debate players of different eras.
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Here a question for you WAR lovers and experts. Would Trout value and WAR be higher playing on a team that makes playoffs every year such as the Dodgers. Would his WAR increase Decrease or stay the same. If you broke down the WAR of players who played for more than 3 teams, Take the WAR from each team the player WAR would not be the same even for the best players would it?
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@dbarmonstar said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
@SaveFarris said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
@dbarmonstar said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
and not considering all stats or how good a player really was in his time based on how the game was in the era of that player
Except that WAR DOES adjust based upon era. So your argument is invalid.
Learn what WAR really is WIN above Replacement for his time not to compare players of different ERA's
https://library.fangraphs.com/misc/war/Yes it does compare players across different eras. Your linked article even says that.
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@skepple15 said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
@dbarmonstar said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
Take Griffey and Bonds came in the league almost at the same time. Bonds is batter but I think Griffey was better than Bonds in there prime.
Uh no.. Bonds was much better in his prime than Griffey
I would not say much better, They were both really good. I just looked at some stats, They were pretty equal. Bonds we know he best years were in his 30's and that was Jr decline with the injuries. For being one of the best players ever Bonds was terrible in the playoffs
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I think this should clarify WAR once and for all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztZI2aLQ9Sw
Edit Didn't realize someone had posted this already....
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@dbarmonstar said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
@skepple15 said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
@dbarmonstar said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
Take Griffey and Bonds came in the league almost at the same time. Bonds is batter but I think Griffey was better than Bonds in there prime.
Uh no.. Bonds was much better in his prime than Griffey
I would not say much better, They were both really good. I just looked at some stats, They were pretty equal. Bonds we know he best years were in his 30's and that was Jr decline with the injuries. For being one of the best players ever Bonds was terrible in the playoffs
Um go look at Bonds pre 30 years old stats, Bonds was on a different level than Griffey, sorry.
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@skepple15 said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
@dbarmonstar said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
@skepple15 said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
@dbarmonstar said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
Take Griffey and Bonds came in the league almost at the same time. Bonds is batter but I think Griffey was better than Bonds in there prime.
Uh no.. Bonds was much better in his prime than Griffey
I would not say much better, They were both really good. I just looked at some stats, They were pretty equal. Bonds we know he best years were in his 30's and that was Jr decline with the injuries. For being one of the best players ever Bonds was terrible in the playoffs
Um go look at Bonds pre 30 years old stats, Bonds was on a different level than Griffey, sorry.
Bonds Rookie year was 86 and the Kid came up in 89.
You should go look at the Kids stats they are actually slightly better overall than Bonds in prime and early in there careers. looking at all the stats. I like Bonds and think he should be in the HOF, if you compare the first 3-4 years Griffey is much better than Bonds was, I think Griffey was slightly better in the prime but it is close. Bonds Crushed Griffey in the late years. It sucks Griffey suffered from injury late in his career. They were the best in the 90's. They help turn franchises around. Both had pressure cause of who there Dad's were. -
Who is better George Brett or Wade Boggs
WAR says Brett 84.6
Boggs 81.4
Can you make a case that Boggs is better or do we only look at WAR.
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How about
Frank Thomas and Sam Crawford
Both are 80.4 so can one be better than the other????????????/
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@skepple15 said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
@dbarmonstar said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
@skepple15 said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
@dbarmonstar said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
Take Griffey and Bonds came in the league almost at the same time. Bonds is batter but I think Griffey was better than Bonds in there prime.
Uh no.. Bonds was much better in his prime than Griffey
I would not say much better, They were both really good. I just looked at some stats, They were pretty equal. Bonds we know he best years were in his 30's and that was Jr decline with the injuries. For being one of the best players ever Bonds was terrible in the playoffs
Um go look at Bonds pre 30 years old stats, Bonds was on a different level than Griffey, sorry.
I'll agree to disagree with you on this one. The only thing Bonds had on Griffey pre 30 was vision (BB & K's) and SB. Griffey had more power and better contact. Should we even talk about defense?
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@dbarmonstar said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
@skepple15 said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
@dbarmonstar said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
@skepple15 said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
@dbarmonstar said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
Take Griffey and Bonds came in the league almost at the same time. Bonds is batter but I think Griffey was better than Bonds in there prime.
Uh no.. Bonds was much better in his prime than Griffey
I would not say much better, They were both really good. I just looked at some stats, They were pretty equal. Bonds we know he best years were in his 30's and that was Jr decline with the injuries. For being one of the best players ever Bonds was terrible in the playoffs
Um go look at Bonds pre 30 years old stats, Bonds was on a different level than Griffey, sorry.
Bonds Rookie year was 86 and the Kid came up in 89.
You should go look at the Kids stats they are actually slightly better overall than Bonds in prime and early in there careers. looking at all the stats. I like Bonds and think he should be in the HOF, if you compare the first 3-4 years Griffey is much better than Bonds was, I think Griffey was slightly better in the prime but it is close. Bonds Crushed Griffey in the late years. It sucks Griffey suffered from injury late in his career. They were the best in the 90's. They help turn franchises around. Both had pressure cause of who there Dad's were.Only reason Griffey broke down after 30 is because he wasn't juicing like Bonds. And playing on the turf in Seattle didn't help his knees.
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@dbarmonstar said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
@skepple15 said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
@dbarmonstar said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
Take Griffey and Bonds came in the league almost at the same time. Bonds is batter but I think Griffey was better than Bonds in there prime.
Uh no.. Bonds was much better in his prime than Griffey
I would not say much better, They were both really good. I just looked at some stats, They were pretty equal. Bonds we know he best years were in his 30's and that was Jr decline with the injuries. For being one of the best players ever Bonds was terrible in the playoffs
That's all I need to know about how you value players.
BTW, Bonds had a 1.994 OPS in the 2001 WS, he literally did produce when it mattered most
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@eatyum said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
@dbarmonstar said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
@skepple15 said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
@dbarmonstar said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
Take Griffey and Bonds came in the league almost at the same time. Bonds is batter but I think Griffey was better than Bonds in there prime.
Uh no.. Bonds was much better in his prime than Griffey
I would not say much better, They were both really good. I just looked at some stats, They were pretty equal. Bonds we know he best years were in his 30's and that was Jr decline with the injuries. For being one of the best players ever Bonds was terrible in the playoffs
That's all I need to know about how you value players.
BTW, Bonds had a 1.994 OPS in the 2001 WS, he literally did produce when it mattered most
What about the other years in the playoffs? Can't go off of one steroid year.
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@Matt_42187 said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
@eatyum said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
@dbarmonstar said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
@skepple15 said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
@dbarmonstar said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
Take Griffey and Bonds came in the league almost at the same time. Bonds is batter but I think Griffey was better than Bonds in there prime.
Uh no.. Bonds was much better in his prime than Griffey
I would not say much better, They were both really good. I just looked at some stats, They were pretty equal. Bonds we know he best years were in his 30's and that was Jr decline with the injuries. For being one of the best players ever Bonds was terrible in the playoffs
That's all I need to know about how you value players.
BTW, Bonds had a 1.994 OPS in the 2001 WS, he literally did produce when it mattered most
What about the other years in the playoffs? Can't go off of one steroid year.
I'm going off the only time Bonds made it the WS, you know the ultimate stage of baseball. If you want to dismiss it because of steroids, that's your prerogative, but he did produce when it mattered MOST, which is the World Series.
Regardless, judging someone by the playoffs is dumb and doesn't really say anything about the players entire career. That was my point
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@eatyum said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
@Matt_42187 said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
@eatyum said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
@dbarmonstar said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
@skepple15 said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
@dbarmonstar said in WAR MOST OVERRATED FORMULA IN BASEBALL:
Take Griffey and Bonds came in the league almost at the same time. Bonds is batter but I think Griffey was better than Bonds in there prime.
Uh no.. Bonds was much better in his prime than Griffey
I would not say much better, They were both really good. I just looked at some stats, They were pretty equal. Bonds we know he best years were in his 30's and that was Jr decline with the injuries. For being one of the best players ever Bonds was terrible in the playoffs
That's all I need to know about how you value players.
BTW, Bonds had a 1.994 OPS in the 2001 WS, he literally did produce when it mattered most
What about the other years in the playoffs? Can't go off of one steroid year.
I'm going off the only time Bonds made it the WS, you know the ultimate stage of baseball. If you want to dismiss it because of steroids, that's your prerogative, but he did produce when it mattered MOST, which is the World Series.
Regardless, judging someone by the playoffs is dumb and doesn't really say anything about the players entire career. That was my point
I never go off of someone’s playoffs either. AROD is in the same boat when it comes to playoff performances.
