Feature Premiere - Next-Gen Thread
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@dolenz_psn said in Feature Premiere - Next-Gen Thread:
I have always said that Offline DD has given it's players very few reasons to collect stadiums. You just don't get to choose them. Conquest, moments, showdowns, even March to October does not give you any chance to choose a stadium.
Well in their stream they just showed a list of modes that do not support created stadiums
- Conquest
- Showdown
- Moments
- DD Casual
- March To October
- Online HR Derby
- Online Play with Friends
So if you spend the bulk of your DD time offline it may not be worth it to spend hours and hours crafting the perfect stadium.
It's disappointing, but I kind of get most of them. You're always the away team in conquest, moments are typically based on a real scenario in a real stadium, and showdowns are basically an extension of moments. I also feel like March to October should stick to MLB stadiums. The head scratcher for me is online play with friends. If you can played with a custom stadium in ranked, I don't see why that would be an issue.
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@pennstatefencer said in Feature Premiere - Next-Gen Thread:
@dolenz_psn said in Feature Premiere - Next-Gen Thread:
I have always said that Offline DD has given it's players very few reasons to collect stadiums. You just don't get to choose them. Conquest, moments, showdowns, even March to October does not give you any chance to choose a stadium.
Well in their stream they just showed a list of modes that do not support created stadiums
- Conquest
- Showdown
- Moments
- DD Casual
- March To October
- Online HR Derby
- Online Play with Friends
So if you spend the bulk of your DD time offline it may not be worth it to spend hours and hours crafting the perfect stadium.
It's disappointing, but I kind of get most of them. You're always the away team in conquest, moments are typically based on a real scenario in a real stadium, and showdowns are basically an extension of moments. I also feel like March to October should stick to MLB stadiums. The head scratcher for me is online play with friends. If you can played with a custom stadium in ranked, I don't see why that would be an issue.
Well, it just kind of supports my, and many others, hopes of having some type of offline events or offline short season where we could choose a stadium.
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The "Next Gen" improvements are basically non existent. What a let down. Especially graphically.
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They deleted the video on the YouTube video after people already left comments
. They know it was a bad showing. -
@thegreedyg103 said in Feature Premiere - Next-Gen Thread:
The "Next Gen" improvements are basically non existent. What a let down. Especially graphically.
I agree with you, TheGreedyG103. Stadium Creator is one feature, and I understand it required the new systems in order to run, but that is not the definition of "next-gen". Agreed, this stream was a letdown, and it didn't answer the technical questions I wanted answered. It was a Stadium Creator stream, not a "next-gen" stream.
Coincidentally, here are the questions I want answered and was expecting some answers in the stream about that were not answered.
Okay, so I know 4k@120 is not going to happen this year. However, what about 1440@120 or 1080p@120? Did 1440 get dropped because the PS5 does not support it natively? (The Xbox Series X|S support 1440@120 natively, so I sure hope 1440 (balanced) was not dropped in '21.)
1440@120 or 1080@120 is a cakewalk for the next-gen Xbox systems, with tons of horsepower leftover to still run SC. In addition, Microsoft has a 120fps patch for Xbox Series S|X that can make games be able to support 120 w/ minimal effort by the development team. Does the Xbox Series S|X version support this, and if not, why not? These are technical questions that I'd expect/want answered in a "next-gen" stream.
Instead, all we got was a 30-minute advertisement/commercial for Stadium Creator.
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@tvsectog_psn said in Feature Premiere - Next-Gen Thread:
@thegreedyg103 said in Feature Premiere - Next-Gen Thread:
The "Next Gen" improvements are basically non existent. What a let down. Especially graphically.
I agree with you, TheGreedyG103. Stadium Creator is one feature, and I understand it required the new systems in order to run, but that is not the definition of "next-gen". Agreed, this stream was a letdown, and it didn't answer the technical questions I wanted answered. It was a Stadium Creator stream, not a "next-gen" stream.
Coincidentally, here are the questions I want answered and was expecting some answers in the stream about that were not answered.
Okay, so I know 4k@120 is not going to happen this year. However, what about 1440@120 or 1080p@120? Did 1440 get dropped because the PS5 does not support it natively? (The Xbox Series X|S support 1440@120 natively, so I sure hope 1440 (balanced) was not dropped in '21.)
1440@120 or 1080@120 is a cakewalk for the next-gen Xbox systems, with tons of horsepower leftover to still run SC. In addition, Microsoft has a 120fps patch for Xbox Series S|X that can make games be able to support 120 w/ minimal effort by the development team. Does the Xbox Series S|X version support this, and if not, why not? These are technical questions that I'd expect/want answered in a "next-gen" stream.
Instead, all we got was a 30-minute advertisement/commercial for Stadium Creator.
Could not have articulated it any better. Let's go even further beyond that. How were there no updated textures? Why does the dirt sitting on home plate still look so artificial? Why are there not any cloth physics? Why is their a lack of Ray Tracing? This game will be killed by reviewers.
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I watched the stream but I didn't see if you could do this but can you make a dome in the stadium creator?
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@rabid55wolverine said in Feature Premiere - Next-Gen Thread:
I watched the stream but I didn't see if you could do this but can you make a dome in the stadium creator?
No the Q&A with Coach and Ramone says you cannot.
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@thegreedyg103 said in Feature Premiere - Next-Gen Thread:
@tvsectog_psn said in Feature Premiere - Next-Gen Thread:
@thegreedyg103 said in Feature Premiere - Next-Gen Thread:
The "Next Gen" improvements are basically non existent. What a let down. Especially graphically.
I agree with you, TheGreedyG103. Stadium Creator is one feature, and I understand it required the new systems in order to run, but that is not the definition of "next-gen". Agreed, this stream was a letdown, and it didn't answer the technical questions I wanted answered. It was a Stadium Creator stream, not a "next-gen" stream.
Coincidentally, here are the questions I want answered and was expecting some answers in the stream about that were not answered.
Okay, so I know 4k@120 is not going to happen this year. However, what about 1440@120 or 1080p@120? Did 1440 get dropped because the PS5 does not support it natively? (The Xbox Series X|S support 1440@120 natively, so I sure hope 1440 (balanced) was not dropped in '21.)
1440@120 or 1080@120 is a cakewalk for the next-gen Xbox systems, with tons of horsepower leftover to still run SC. In addition, Microsoft has a 120fps patch for Xbox Series S|X that can make games be able to support 120 w/ minimal effort by the development team. Does the Xbox Series S|X version support this, and if not, why not? These are technical questions that I'd expect/want answered in a "next-gen" stream.
Instead, all we got was a 30-minute advertisement/commercial for Stadium Creator.
Could not have articulated it any better.
Thanks
For your questions below, I'll take a swag/guess at answering them.
So, the Playstation runs a version of BSD.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_4_system_software
For simplicity, BSD is different than Windows, and doesn't have as good graphic driver support. It doesn't have as many graphic SDK's as the Xbox. (I like BSD better than Windows for running on a PC, yet it's a hard sell for me to be the best OS for a console system due to lack of graphic support.) The Xbox runs a version of Windows, which has more graphic software available (DirectX11 and DirectX12, among other graphic libraries).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_system_software
So, the differences between the Playstation and Xbox software under the hood are fairly different, which means a fair amount of work for SDS, potentially, to keep things in-sync. (Maybe not, yet I suspect so.)
Software is developed in layers. '21 is a "foundation layer", as the first port of the game to the new consoles. It's a lot of work to create these initial foundations. Just getting this basic infrastructure up and running is a big development exercise, and SDS deserves credit for doing the ports, cross-play and stadium creator in '21. I will give them that, good job for all of that work. My guess is they worked on the platform ports for years behind the scenes, probably at least 2 years.
Getting software working in the first "foundation layer" is hard, yet once done very rewarding. After foundation layers, in future releases every year they can really optimize things like graphics that really take advantage of the new consoles. What SDS needs to do to fully advance the graphics is to optimize the program, then re-optimize it, etc. It takes time, yet it is essentially what Microsoft is doing to port the Flight Simulator to the Xbox Series X (they are porting the simulator from DirectX 11 to DirectX 12 to support better multi-threading to make the game more stable, and also playable (great game, but it consumes too many computer resources to be playable right now without DirectX 12).
https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/directx12-and-fortnite/
DirectX 12 and any similar libraries the Playstation uses support Ray Tracing, and better looking graphics overall. However, it takes time to fully optimize that, which is understandable. In addition to the software side, SDS didn't have many PS5's or Xboxs to develop on the last year, as both platforms are in very short supply. It is very hard to optimize code by simulating it in software when the hardware is not available. So, because there was not much next-gen hardware for SDS developers to be able to use/test on during the game development, that is another reason that the optimizations take time, and I support them. Covid only made the supply shortage harder, in addition to developing new features. This year SDS focused on the software baselines to get the program working. Next year when they have both the hardware and software, they can then optimize things much better. If the chip shortage persist into next year, SDS gets an additional year pass (can't optimize the game on hardware they don't have access to).
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/04/global-chip-shortage-may-drag-into-2022/
Now, my questions about 1080p@120 and 1440@120 are fair questions because those features are in the basic infrastructure that should already be in the current code release along with the next-gen systems. The new next-gen systems give them that capability to the game for next to free, no different than the 4k@60fps, which is given to them by the next-gen system. The Xbox even has code that could help them. I just want to know the basic question of if they used those features in '21, as those are features that interest me.
"Let's go even further beyond that. How were there no updated textures? Why does the dirt sitting on home plate still look so artificial? Why are there not any cloth physics? Why is their a lack of Ray Tracing? This game will be killed by reviewers.
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@red_ted_is_back said in Feature Premiere - Next-Gen Thread:
@rabid55wolverine said in Feature Premiere - Next-Gen Thread:
I watched the stream but I didn't see if you could do this but can you make a dome in the stadium creator?
No the Q&A with Coach and Ramone says you cannot.
Ah ok thanks, I missed that
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@tvsectog_psn said in Feature Premiere - Next-Gen Thread:
@thegreedyg103 said in Feature Premiere - Next-Gen Thread:
@tvsectog_psn said in Feature Premiere - Next-Gen Thread:
@thegreedyg103 said in Feature Premiere - Next-Gen Thread:
The "Next Gen" improvements are basically non existent. What a let down. Especially graphically.
I agree with you, TheGreedyG103. Stadium Creator is one feature, and I understand it required the new systems in order to run, but that is not the definition of "next-gen". Agreed, this stream was a letdown, and it didn't answer the technical questions I wanted answered. It was a Stadium Creator stream, not a "next-gen" stream.
Coincidentally, here are the questions I want answered and was expecting some answers in the stream about that were not answered.
Okay, so I know 4k@120 is not going to happen this year. However, what about 1440@120 or 1080p@120? Did 1440 get dropped because the PS5 does not support it natively? (The Xbox Series X|S support 1440@120 natively, so I sure hope 1440 (balanced) was not dropped in '21.)
1440@120 or 1080@120 is a cakewalk for the next-gen Xbox systems, with tons of horsepower leftover to still run SC. In addition, Microsoft has a 120fps patch for Xbox Series S|X that can make games be able to support 120 w/ minimal effort by the development team. Does the Xbox Series S|X version support this, and if not, why not? These are technical questions that I'd expect/want answered in a "next-gen" stream.
Instead, all we got was a 30-minute advertisement/commercial for Stadium Creator.
Could not have articulated it any better.
Thanks
For your questions below, I'll take a swag/guess at answering them.
So, the Playstation runs a version of BSD.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_4_system_software
For simplicity, BSD is different than Windows, and doesn't have as good graphic driver support. It doesn't have as many graphic SDK's as the Xbox. (I like BSD better than Windows for running on a PC, yet it's a hard sell for me to be the best OS for a console system due to lack of graphic support.) The Xbox runs a version of Windows, which has more graphic software available (DirectX11 and DirectX12, among other graphic libraries).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_system_software
So, the differences between the Playstation and Xbox software under the hood are fairly different, which means a fair amount of work for SDS, potentially, to keep things in-sync. (Maybe not, yet I suspect so.)
Software is developed in layers. '21 is a "foundation layer", as the first port of the game to the new consoles. It's a lot of work to create these initial foundations. Just getting this basic infrastructure up and running is a big development exercise, and SDS deserves credit for doing the ports, cross-play and stadium creator in '21. I will give them that, good job for all of that work. My guess is they worked on the platform ports for years behind the scenes, probably at least 2 years.
Getting software working in the first "foundation layer" is hard, yet once done very rewarding. After foundation layers, in future releases every year they can really optimize things like graphics that really take advantage of the new consoles. What SDS needs to do to fully advance the graphics is to optimize the program, then re-optimize it, etc. It takes time, yet it is essentially what Microsoft is doing to port the Flight Simulator to the Xbox Series X (they are porting the simulator from DirectX 11 to DirectX 12 to support better multi-threading to make the game more stable, and also playable (great game, but it consumes too many computer resources to be playable right now without DirectX 12).
https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/directx12-and-fortnite/
DirectX 12 and any similar libraries the Playstation uses support Ray Tracing, and better looking graphics overall. However, it takes time to fully optimize that, which is understandable. In addition to the software side, SDS didn't have many PS5's or Xboxs to develop on the last year, as both platforms are in very short supply. It is very hard to optimize code by simulating it in software when the hardware is not available. So, because there was not much next-gen hardware for SDS developers to be able to use/test on during the game development, that is another reason that the optimizations take time, and I support them. Covid only made the supply shortage harder, in addition to developing new features. This year SDS focused on the software baselines to get the program working. Next year when they have both the hardware and software, they can then optimize things much better. If the chip shortage persist into next year, SDS gets an additional year pass (can't optimize the game on hardware they don't have access to).
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/04/global-chip-shortage-may-drag-into-2022/
Now, my questions about 1080p@120 and 1440@120 are fair questions because those features are in the basic infrastructure that should already be in the current code release along with the next-gen systems. The new next-gen systems give them that capability to the game for next to free, no different than the 4k@60fps, which is given to them by the next-gen system. The Xbox even has code that could help them. I just want to know the basic question of if they used those features in '21, as those are features that interest me.
"Let's go even further beyond that. How were there no updated textures? Why does the dirt sitting on home plate still look so artificial? Why are there not any cloth physics? Why is their a lack of Ray Tracing? This game will be killed by reviewers.
Also, SDS can get the 120fps in to '21 if they want, especially for new Xbox players. I hope SDS does the right thing and allow us new Xbox Series S|X customers to run the game at 1080@120, 1440@120 (or 4k@120).
https://gamingbolt.com/overwatch-update-adds-4k-60-fps-and-1440p-120-fps-support-on-xbox-series-x
https://www.trueachievements.com/n44553/sea-of-thieves-120-fps
https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/m1kvwj/in_todays_patch_the_xbox_series_sx_got_120fps/
https://metro.co.uk/2021/03/10/overwatch-runs-at-120fps-on-xbox-series-x-but-not-ps5-14220030/
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@tvsectog_psn said in Feature Premiere - Next-Gen Thread:
@thegreedyg103 said in Feature Premiere - Next-Gen Thread:
The "Next Gen" improvements are basically non existent. What a let down. Especially graphically.
I agree with you, TheGreedyG103. Stadium Creator is one feature, and I understand it required the new systems in order to run, but that is not the definition of "next-gen". Agreed, this stream was a letdown, and it didn't answer the technical questions I wanted answered. It was a Stadium Creator stream, not a "next-gen" stream.
Coincidentally, here are the questions I want answered and was expecting some answers in the stream about that were not answered.
Okay, so I know 4k@120 is not going to happen this year. However, what about 1440@120 or 1080p@120? Did 1440 get dropped because the PS5 does not support it natively? (The Xbox Series X|S support 1440@120 natively, so I sure hope 1440 (balanced) was not dropped in '21.)
1440@120 or 1080@120 is a cakewalk for the next-gen Xbox systems, with tons of horsepower leftover to still run SC. In addition, Microsoft has a 120fps patch for Xbox Series S|X that can make games be able to support 120 w/ minimal effort by the development team. Does the Xbox Series S|X version support this, and if not, why not? These are technical questions that I'd expect/want answered in a "next-gen" stream.
Instead, all we got was a 30-minute advertisement/commercial for Stadium Creator.
I don't feel it is sony's obligation to tell others what thier competitors system can or cannot do. SDS = Sony San Diego "not" microsoft or xbox. I feel like from a business perpective it falls into a liability issue at that point.
They covered the controller and talked about how it's features will be used in game. I think peoples expectation were a little high with next gen games being ready coming out of the gate.
They talked about a feature people been asking for years and they were able to take thier time and present the creator in a manor to say "we brought this aspect to you at least for next gen." I feel like covid kept alot of developers from being able to meet goals, that doesn't fall on them.
I would say take it for what is and with everything we all have gone through give a pass to them this year. And be grateful they pushed this feature out for you guys.
Next year hold them to higher standard if you want to, but personally due to rules from Govt, Head Corporate Offices i just don't think it is fair after what we have all gone through.
And not to sound to arrogant, but they have showed off alot of changes within the game to this point! So considering the trials and tribulations they busted thier butts for us this year from "my perspective." jmho
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Would be nice to create a stadium with a roof, dome or retractable. I am sure it will be an option in future years.
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FYI: The list of 30 Premade CreateAStadiums. (Unless otherwise noted, stadiums have Opening Date of 2021):
Tutorial Park (26K)
Modern Field (54K)
Triple Decker (41K)
Open Air Field (49K)
Hip City (46K)
Opportunity Park (46K)
Mountain Yard (49K)
Red Canyon Run (27K)
Double Decker (30K)
Tropical Falls (25K)
Tech Center (24K)
Old Road Town (19K)
Big Bridge Ballpark (23K)
Randomize Me (15K)
Corn Field (50. Not 50K. 50. Also opened in 1989 (year of film's release))
University Field (5K)
Varsity Park (3K)
Let's Snow (10K)
Hot Tropic (2K)
Red Rock and Roll (12K)
Red Bricks Field (25K)
House That Gwynn Built (aka Qualcomm Stadium. 55K. 1965 Opened)
Mega Decks (50K)
The Island (15K)
Suite Victory (45K)
Campus Park (3K)
Dino Lair (2K. Opened 1 AD)
MLB Canvas (35K)
MiLB Canvas (5K)
Blank Canvas (0) -
Taking a shot in the dark: Your elevation is locked into whichever of the 30 templates you start with.
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@savefarris_psn said in Feature Premiere - Next-Gen Thread:
Taking a shot in the dark: Your elevation is locked into whichever of the 30 templates you start with.
That would be my guess as well !
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@ikasnu_psn said in Feature Premiere - Next-Gen Thread:
Create a stadium deep dive?
I've got a [Use your imagination]
Ikasnu- "A cat licking the nacho cheese off my fingers as a foul ball plunks me in the rah rahs?"
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@grizzbear55_psn said in Feature Premiere - Next-Gen Thread:
@tvsectog_psn said in Feature Premiere - Next-Gen Thread:
@thegreedyg103 said in Feature Premiere - Next-Gen Thread:
The "Next Gen" improvements are basically non existent. What a let down. Especially graphically.
I agree with you, TheGreedyG103. Stadium Creator is one feature, and I understand it required the new systems in order to run, but that is not the definition of "next-gen". Agreed, this stream was a letdown, and it didn't answer the technical questions I wanted answered. It was a Stadium Creator stream, not a "next-gen" stream.
Coincidentally, here are the questions I want answered and was expecting some answers in the stream about that were not answered.
Okay, so I know 4k@120 is not going to happen this year. However, what about 1440@120 or 1080p@120? Did 1440 get dropped because the PS5 does not support it natively? (The Xbox Series X|S support 1440@120 natively, so I sure hope 1440 (balanced) was not dropped in '21.)
1440@120 or 1080@120 is a cakewalk for the next-gen Xbox systems, with tons of horsepower leftover to still run SC. In addition, Microsoft has a 120fps patch for Xbox Series S|X that can make games be able to support 120 w/ minimal effort by the development team. Does the Xbox Series S|X version support this, and if not, why not? These are technical questions that I'd expect/want answered in a "next-gen" stream.
Instead, all we got was a 30-minute advertisement/commercial for Stadium Creator.
I don't feel it is sony's obligation to tell others what thier competitors system can or cannot do. SDS = Sony San Diego "not" microsoft or xbox. I feel like from a business perpective it falls into a liability issue at that point.
They covered the controller and talked about how it's features will be used in game. I think peoples expectation were a little high with next gen games being ready coming out of the gate.
They talked about a feature people been asking for years and they were able to take thier time and present the creator in a manor to say "we brought this aspect to you at least for next gen." I feel like covid kept alot of developers from being able to meet goals, that doesn't fall on them.
I would say take it for what is and with everything we all have gone through give a pass to them this year. And be grateful they pushed this feature out for you guys.
Next year hold them to higher standard if you want to, but personally due to rules from Govt, Head Corporate Offices i just don't think it is fair after what we have all gone through.
And not to sound to arrogant, but they have showed off alot of changes within the game to this point! So considering the trials and tribulations they busted thier butts for us this year from "my perspective." jmho
"I don't feel it is sony's obligation to tell others what thier competitors system can or cannot do. SDS = Sony San Diego "not" microsoft or xbox. I feel like from a business perpective it falls into a liability issue at that point."
I understand your statement, yet that is not what I am saying. So, to make a product that is inferior on a competitors platform because your platform can't also take advantage of the optimization to give your product time to catch-up so it could also take advantage of the same optimization due to a design flaw in your own product platform (the PS5)...doesn't seem right.
Also, in my explanations I give SDS kudos. I fully agree with you that they deserve credit for all they have done the past year, and I have thanked them in multiple posts.
However, the Microsoft patch to make the game better is coming from Microsoft for free. SDS may just need to compile the code with the optimization from Microsoft for the frames boost. It also appears that the patch can be done relatively easy ......"we can make the experience even better, all with no work required by the developer, and no update needed by the gamer." Sounds like there could be very little for SDS to actually code on their end. (My guess it is a recompile of the code with the optimization enabled.)
https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2021/02/17/making-backward-compatible-games-even-better-with-fps-boost/
Maybe I am wrong, and if so I am fine with that, yet a more detailed explanation of the issues and why from SDS is all I am asking for.
I agree that SDS has worked hard. What I am asking from them are technical answers to very specific technical questions. That doesn't seem too much to ask, especially since they would fall under the "next-gen" umbrella of questions.
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@grizzbear55_psn said in Feature Premiere - Next-Gen Thread:
@ikasnu_psn said in Feature Premiere - Next-Gen Thread:
Create a stadium deep dive?
I've got a [Use your imagination]
Ikasnu- "A cat licking the nacho cheese off my fingers as a foul ball plunks me in the rah rahs?"
Don't tempt me with a good time.
