Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again)
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@ItsaCanesthing said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
@DiddyKlunk said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
My next question would be is Mike Trout an all time great because he's 1-10 in postseason and can't even get there or Degrom who has a 7.20 era in one WS start in his only postseason appearance?
Mike Trout is on his way to being an all time great. He is knocking on the door.
But is he in the class of Mays, Mantle and Dimaggio?? Not Yet.
He needs a few more years and one great playoff run.Your argument is disingenuous at best.
You are using a small sample size and cherry picking of stats to argue your point.
Yeah DeGrom has a 7.20 WS ERA, but you failed to mention that his 3 other starts that post season resulted in 3 starts, 20 IP 4 ER and a 1.80 ERA.
Trout has had one post season (where he failed miserably). You cannot compare the post seasons of those two when discussing Kershaw.Kershaw has pitched 177 innings in the post season. And other than 1 Wild Card Game his ERA by round leaves alot to be desired:
NLDS 4.02 ERA
NLCS 4.84 ERA
WS 5.40 ERAYou're right I am picking small sample sizes because my point in the argument is exactly what you're making, Degrom has 25 innings pitched in the postseason compared to 177 for Kershaw. By no means am I saying Kershaw is lights out but he has a much larger sample size to make errors or be failed by offense, bullpen, or managers.
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@phillydave35 said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
Maybe, but he was keeping them in it. 1 run on 1 hit isn’t going to win much. Their offense needs to wake up.
GREAT POINT. He did his job in my opinion. The bullpen and the offense did not have his back last night!
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@DoIHearBossMusic said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
They need to release a Postseason Kershaw card, but make it a bronze 67
I mean, you're not wrong.
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@aam34 said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
@phillydave35 said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
Maybe, but he was keeping them in it. 1 run on 1 hit isn’t going to win much. Their offense needs to wake up.
GREAT POINT. He did his job in my opinion. The bullpen and the offense did not have his back last night!
No he did not.
He did his job through 5 innings.
The 6th inning DID happen. He surrendered a hit to Acuna and doubles to Freeman and Ozuna.
You can't blame the error advancing Acuna to second, he would have scored on Freeman's double. And Ozuna would have certainly driven him in on his double.Even if Graterol would have shut the Braves down, it would have been 3-1 after 6 innings.
Roberts is the issue here. He took a banged up, fading veteran and got greedy and tried to run him out there for one more inning.
Shows you how little faith he has in his pen.
Can't even blame NL strategy since there is a universal DH.Kershaw is like the race horse that will run until he collapses. It is up to his proverbial jockey (Roberts) to know when to pull in the reins.
Kershaw didnt fail the Dodgers. Roberts and by extension the Dodgers failed Kershaw.
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@DiddyKlunk said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
My Kershaw memories in the playoffs tend to be the bullpen letting runners score such as today. By no means is he lights out, but let's also realize such as in 2019 he got his one out of the bullpen there is no need to have him return after he retires his one batter. I remember Baez coming in and blowing it after or like Brusdar today coughing up runners on base. My next question would be is Mike Trout an all time great because he's 1-10 in postseason and can't even get there or Degrom who has a 7.20 era in one WS start in his only postseason appearance? We can punish Kershaw for all the blow ups but he's also had more chances than someone like Degrom or Trout.
You can’t blame Trout and Degrom for not having any chances. The Mets and Angels have had some of the worst front offices in professional sports history for the last 20 years. This isn’t basketball. One great player can’t carry a team to the playoffs in a 162 game season. TBH Trout and Degrom have pretty much kept their teams from being the Tigers, Orioles, or Pirates the last 5 years
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cc Sabathia was not good in the Post season
Tom Glavine was just as bad in the post season
Roger Clemens is only slightly better than Kershaw in post season and pretty sure he was on Roids.I am sure there are plenty more
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@dbarmonstar said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
cc Sabathia was not good in the Post season
Tom Glavine was just as bad in the post season
Roger Clemens is only slightly better than Kershaw in post season and pretty sure he was on Roids.I am sure there are plenty more
You are so wrong, it is comical.
Put down the Dodgers pom-poms.
Let's compare Kershaw with pitchers that have similar Postseason Innings pitched.
Let's look at ERA. Win-Loss record is misleading and dependent on run support.Kershaw is # 7 all time in Post season Innings pitched.
But he is last in ERA and its not even close.
His ERA is half a run worse than the next closest pitcher (Pettitte who is #1 in innings pictched)
The real surprise is Whitey Ford with a 2.71 Postseason ERA. What makes it that much better is that ALL of his postseason innings pitched were in the World Series.
Here are the numbers:Player IP ERA1 Andy Pettitte 276.2 3.81
2 Tom Glavine 218.1 3.30
3 John Smoltz 209 2.67
4 Roger Clemens 199 3.75
5 Greg Maddux 198 3.27
6 Justin Verlander 187.2 3.40
7 Clayton Kershaw 177.1 4.31
8 Jon Lester 154 2.51
9 Whitey Ford 146 2.71
10 John Lackey 144 2.89Still think Kershaw isn't that bad?
Compared to his postseason contemporaries he is severely lacking. -
@ItsaCanesthing said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
@dbarmonstar said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
cc Sabathia was not good in the Post season
Tom Glavine was just as bad in the post season
Roger Clemens is only slightly better than Kershaw in post season and pretty sure he was on Roids.I am sure there are plenty more
You are so wrong, it is comical.
Put down the Dodgers pom-poms.
Let's compare Kershaw with pitchers that have similar Postseason Innings pitched.
Let's look at ERA. Win-Loss record is misleading and dependent on run support.Kershaw is # 7 all time in Post season Innings pitched.
But he is last in ERA and its not even close.
His ERA is half a run worse than the next closest pitcher (Pettitte who is #1 in innings pictched)
The real surprise is Whitey Ford with a 2.71 Postseason ERA. What makes it that much better is that ALL of his postseason innings pitched were in the World Series.
Here are the numbers:Player IP ERA
1 Andy Pettitte 276.2 3.81
2 Tom Glavine 218.1 3.30
3 John Smoltz 209 2.67
4 Roger Clemens 199 3.75
5 Greg Maddux 198 3.27
6 Justin Verlander 187.2 3.40
7 Clayton Kershaw 177.1 4.31
8 Jon Lester 154 2.51
9 Whitey Ford 146 2.71
10 John Lackey 144 2.89Still think Kershaw isn't that bad?
Compared to his postseason contemporaries he is severely lacking.No I do not, He was miss manged and many times pitching on short rest. I am not saying he was good but he is not as bad as the number suggest. I watch pretty much all of his post season games. The two games that serious inflate those numbers are vs the Cardinals and Cubs. The WS game in Hou you can throw that game out. Last years game vs the Nats was probably the worst.
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@dbarmonstar said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
@ItsaCanesthing said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
@dbarmonstar said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
cc Sabathia was not good in the Post season
Tom Glavine was just as bad in the post season
Roger Clemens is only slightly better than Kershaw in post season and pretty sure he was on Roids.I am sure there are plenty more
You are so wrong, it is comical.
Put down the Dodgers pom-poms.
Let's compare Kershaw with pitchers that have similar Postseason Innings pitched.
Let's look at ERA. Win-Loss record is misleading and dependent on run support.Kershaw is # 7 all time in Post season Innings pitched.
But he is last in ERA and its not even close.
His ERA is half a run worse than the next closest pitcher (Pettitte who is #1 in innings pictched)
The real surprise is Whitey Ford with a 2.71 Postseason ERA. What makes it that much better is that ALL of his postseason innings pitched were in the World Series.
Here are the numbers:Player IP ERA1 Andy Pettitte 276.2 3.81
2 Tom Glavine 218.1 3.30
3 John Smoltz 209 2.67
4 Roger Clemens 199 3.75
5 Greg Maddux 198 3.27
6 Justin Verlander 187.2 3.40
7 Clayton Kershaw 177.1 4.31
8 Jon Lester 154 2.51
9 Whitey Ford 146 2.71
10 John Lackey 144 2.89Still think Kershaw isn't that bad?
Compared to his postseason contemporaries he is severely lacking.No I do not, He was miss manged and many times pitching on short rest. I am not saying he was good but he is not as bad as the number suggest. I watch pretty much all of his post season games. The two games that serious inflate those numbers are vs the Cardinals and Cubs. The WS game in Hou you can throw that game out. Last years game vs the Nats was probably the worst.
As bad as people think he chokes in the playoffs, you would think those numbers would be worst.
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No I do not, He was miss manged and many times pitching on short rest. I am not saying he was good but he is not as bad as the number suggest. I watch pretty much all of his post season games. The two games that serious inflate those numbers are vs the Cardinals and Cubs. The WS game in Hou you can throw that game out. Last years game vs the Nats was probably the worst.
You can't pick and choose which games count.
This isnt high school where the teacher drops your lowest grade.I will give you the cheating Stros Game... 4.2 IP 6 ER
He still has a career postseason ERA of 4.10 STILL worst amongst top 10 IP pitchers.
With the exception of the astros game every thing else is legit. -
@ItsaCanesthing said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
You can't pick and chose which games count.
This isnt high school where the teacher drops your lowest grade.I will give you the cheating Stros Game... 4.2 IP 6 ER
He still has a career postseason ERA of 4.10 STILL worst amongst top 10 IP pitchers.
With the exception of the astros game every thing else is legit.All the games count, Everyone knows the Managers of the Dodgers have not made good decisions with there pitchers in the Post season. This goes all the way back to Torre. Mantingly was the worst. I am not saying Kershaw is good in the playoffs. I am saying the blame of his bad performances is partly on the manager.
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I disagree with the argument about taking him out after 5. I thought Roberts took him out at the right time. With the no days off deal it’s not as easy to just roll your best relievers out when they might have to pitch the next three days. The reality is that the dodgers were in a hole and needed kershaw to pitch 6 or 7 innings to get them to even. They were tied in the game and couldn’t hit. If Roberts sends out his top 4 arms in kelly, Treinen, Graterol, and Jansen and they get walked off because they cant score runs, they have no chance to win the series. Now tonight, it’s a different story. All hands on deck, no messing around.
I know I’ve got dodger goggles on here. But if they can find a way to score some runs, they can still win this series. But, if they’re going to score 2 runs then the Braves deserve to win it.
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@MathMan5072 said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
I disagree with the argument about taking him out after 5. I thought Roberts took him out at the right time. With the no days off deal it’s not as easy to just roll your best relievers out when they might have to pitch the next three days. The reality is that the dodgers were in a hole and needed kershaw to pitch 6 or 7 innings to get them to even. They were tied in the game and couldn’t hit. If Roberts sends out his top 4 arms in kelly, Treinen, Graterol, and Jansen and they get walked off because they cant score runs, they have no chance. Now tonight, it’s a different story. All hands on deck, no messing around.
I know I’ve got dodger goggles on here. But if they can find a way to score some runs, they can still win this series. But, if they’re going to score 2 runs then the Braves deserve to win it.
I agree with you on last night no reason to pull him in the 5th he has been pitching well in this post season, The hit by Acuna was not solid and the only solid hit up to 6th was the HR bY Ozuna, The error by Hernandez hurt. I think Roberts pulled him at the right time last night. The bullpen has sucked in this series and no offense last night.
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@dbarmonstar said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
Roger Clemens is only slightly better than Kershaw in post season and pretty sure he was on Roids.
Roger was 3-0 with a 2.37 ERA and WHIP under 1.00 in 8 World Series starts.
I think he gets a bad rap. He wasnt as dominant in the postseason as the regular season. Considering its arguable that hes the greatest starting pitcher of all time, any step down is looked at more critically.
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@MathMan5072 said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
If Roberts sends out his top 4 arms in kelly, Treinen, Graterol, and Jansen and they get walked off because they cant score runs, they have no chance to win the series.
I know I’ve got dodger goggles on here. But if they can find a way to score some runs, they can still win this series. But, if they’re going to score 2 runs then the Braves deserve to win it.
He had a rested Pen. Treinen and Kelly had only pitched a third of an inning each.
Using Jansen in a blow out game the night before was stupid at best.
That is 3 innings right there....6, 7, 8.
When you are up 10 plus runs you can afford to leave a guy out there a little longer.
Or he could have used Wood for multiple innings since he is a starter.Well Roberts left Kelly and the boys in the pen and now he is down 3-1.
But heck they are rested at least.
You manage for today down 2-1 in a series.
If you need to use your pen to get it to 2-2, you do it. -
this is a good link to show how bad Kershaw really is the worst postseason pitcher in the history of the game.
http://baseballegg.com/2019/10/12/is-kershaw-the-worst-great-pitcher-in-postseason-history/This is a sad fact. When he is good he is good and when he is bad he is really bad there is no middle ground. QS numbers show it all.
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Let's play this out....
Roberts goes to the pen yesterday and they win.
Series tied 2-2
If they get smashed today because he needs to extend carrot top, being down 3-2 and a rested pen is feasible.Now he is down 3-1 and he cannot use his top arms 3 straight days.
Check mate.
The day to use the pen was yesterday.Throw Treinen, Kelly and Jansen...Rest for Game 5 and have them ready to deal games 6 and 7.
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@ItsaCanesthing said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
Let's play this out....
Roberts goes to the pen yesterday and they win.
Series tied 2-2
If they get smashed today because he needs to extend carrot top, being down 3-2 and a rested pen is feasible.Now he is down 3-1 and he cannot use his top arms 3 straight days.
Check mate.
The day to use the pen was yesterday.The problem Roberts also has and needed to use the best arms in the pen yesterday is Buehler has blisters.
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@dbarmonstar said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
@ItsaCanesthing said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
Let's play this out....
Roberts goes to the pen yesterday and they win.
Series tied 2-2
If they get smashed today because he needs to extend carrot top, being down 3-2 and a rested pen is feasible.Now he is down 3-1 and he cannot use his top arms 3 straight days.
Check mate.
The day to use the pen was yesterday.The problem Roberts also has and needed to use the best arms in the pen yesterday is Buehler has blisters.
The Rays gave us the blue print for using a compromised starter vs the Yanks.
One time through the lineup and that's it. If Walker has blisters then 3 innings is the most you can expect from him.
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@ItsaCanesthing said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
@dbarmonstar said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
@ItsaCanesthing said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
Let's play this out....
Roberts goes to the pen yesterday and they win.
Series tied 2-2
If they get smashed today because he needs to extend carrot top, being down 3-2 and a rested pen is feasible.Now he is down 3-1 and he cannot use his top arms 3 straight days.
Check mate.
The day to use the pen was yesterday.The problem Roberts also has and needed to use the best arms in the pen yesterday is Buehler has blisters.
The Rays gave us the blue print for using a compromised starter vs the Yanks.
One time through the lineup and that's it. If Walker has blisters then 3 innings is the most you can expect from him.
I Think dodgers win tonight but game 6 and 7 up against Fried and Anderson will be tough. Is it possible of course but not likely. You never know. I hope dodger can get it going and win the next 3.
