Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again)
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@ItsaCanesthing said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
@dbarmonstar said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
cc Sabathia was not good in the Post season
Tom Glavine was just as bad in the post season
Roger Clemens is only slightly better than Kershaw in post season and pretty sure he was on Roids.I am sure there are plenty more
You are so wrong, it is comical.
Put down the Dodgers pom-poms.
Let's compare Kershaw with pitchers that have similar Postseason Innings pitched.
Let's look at ERA. Win-Loss record is misleading and dependent on run support.Kershaw is # 7 all time in Post season Innings pitched.
But he is last in ERA and its not even close.
His ERA is half a run worse than the next closest pitcher (Pettitte who is #1 in innings pictched)
The real surprise is Whitey Ford with a 2.71 Postseason ERA. What makes it that much better is that ALL of his postseason innings pitched were in the World Series.
Here are the numbers:Player IP ERA
1 Andy Pettitte 276.2 3.81
2 Tom Glavine 218.1 3.30
3 John Smoltz 209 2.67
4 Roger Clemens 199 3.75
5 Greg Maddux 198 3.27
6 Justin Verlander 187.2 3.40
7 Clayton Kershaw 177.1 4.31
8 Jon Lester 154 2.51
9 Whitey Ford 146 2.71
10 John Lackey 144 2.89Still think Kershaw isn't that bad?
Compared to his postseason contemporaries he is severely lacking.No I do not, He was miss manged and many times pitching on short rest. I am not saying he was good but he is not as bad as the number suggest. I watch pretty much all of his post season games. The two games that serious inflate those numbers are vs the Cardinals and Cubs. The WS game in Hou you can throw that game out. Last years game vs the Nats was probably the worst.
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@dbarmonstar said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
@ItsaCanesthing said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
@dbarmonstar said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
cc Sabathia was not good in the Post season
Tom Glavine was just as bad in the post season
Roger Clemens is only slightly better than Kershaw in post season and pretty sure he was on Roids.I am sure there are plenty more
You are so wrong, it is comical.
Put down the Dodgers pom-poms.
Let's compare Kershaw with pitchers that have similar Postseason Innings pitched.
Let's look at ERA. Win-Loss record is misleading and dependent on run support.Kershaw is # 7 all time in Post season Innings pitched.
But he is last in ERA and its not even close.
His ERA is half a run worse than the next closest pitcher (Pettitte who is #1 in innings pictched)
The real surprise is Whitey Ford with a 2.71 Postseason ERA. What makes it that much better is that ALL of his postseason innings pitched were in the World Series.
Here are the numbers:Player IP ERA1 Andy Pettitte 276.2 3.81
2 Tom Glavine 218.1 3.30
3 John Smoltz 209 2.67
4 Roger Clemens 199 3.75
5 Greg Maddux 198 3.27
6 Justin Verlander 187.2 3.40
7 Clayton Kershaw 177.1 4.31
8 Jon Lester 154 2.51
9 Whitey Ford 146 2.71
10 John Lackey 144 2.89Still think Kershaw isn't that bad?
Compared to his postseason contemporaries he is severely lacking.No I do not, He was miss manged and many times pitching on short rest. I am not saying he was good but he is not as bad as the number suggest. I watch pretty much all of his post season games. The two games that serious inflate those numbers are vs the Cardinals and Cubs. The WS game in Hou you can throw that game out. Last years game vs the Nats was probably the worst.
As bad as people think he chokes in the playoffs, you would think those numbers would be worst.
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No I do not, He was miss manged and many times pitching on short rest. I am not saying he was good but he is not as bad as the number suggest. I watch pretty much all of his post season games. The two games that serious inflate those numbers are vs the Cardinals and Cubs. The WS game in Hou you can throw that game out. Last years game vs the Nats was probably the worst.
You can't pick and choose which games count.
This isnt high school where the teacher drops your lowest grade.I will give you the cheating Stros Game... 4.2 IP 6 ER
He still has a career postseason ERA of 4.10 STILL worst amongst top 10 IP pitchers.
With the exception of the astros game every thing else is legit. -
@ItsaCanesthing said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
You can't pick and chose which games count.
This isnt high school where the teacher drops your lowest grade.I will give you the cheating Stros Game... 4.2 IP 6 ER
He still has a career postseason ERA of 4.10 STILL worst amongst top 10 IP pitchers.
With the exception of the astros game every thing else is legit.All the games count, Everyone knows the Managers of the Dodgers have not made good decisions with there pitchers in the Post season. This goes all the way back to Torre. Mantingly was the worst. I am not saying Kershaw is good in the playoffs. I am saying the blame of his bad performances is partly on the manager.
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I disagree with the argument about taking him out after 5. I thought Roberts took him out at the right time. With the no days off deal it’s not as easy to just roll your best relievers out when they might have to pitch the next three days. The reality is that the dodgers were in a hole and needed kershaw to pitch 6 or 7 innings to get them to even. They were tied in the game and couldn’t hit. If Roberts sends out his top 4 arms in kelly, Treinen, Graterol, and Jansen and they get walked off because they cant score runs, they have no chance to win the series. Now tonight, it’s a different story. All hands on deck, no messing around.
I know I’ve got dodger goggles on here. But if they can find a way to score some runs, they can still win this series. But, if they’re going to score 2 runs then the Braves deserve to win it.
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@MathMan5072 said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
I disagree with the argument about taking him out after 5. I thought Roberts took him out at the right time. With the no days off deal it’s not as easy to just roll your best relievers out when they might have to pitch the next three days. The reality is that the dodgers were in a hole and needed kershaw to pitch 6 or 7 innings to get them to even. They were tied in the game and couldn’t hit. If Roberts sends out his top 4 arms in kelly, Treinen, Graterol, and Jansen and they get walked off because they cant score runs, they have no chance. Now tonight, it’s a different story. All hands on deck, no messing around.
I know I’ve got dodger goggles on here. But if they can find a way to score some runs, they can still win this series. But, if they’re going to score 2 runs then the Braves deserve to win it.
I agree with you on last night no reason to pull him in the 5th he has been pitching well in this post season, The hit by Acuna was not solid and the only solid hit up to 6th was the HR bY Ozuna, The error by Hernandez hurt. I think Roberts pulled him at the right time last night. The bullpen has sucked in this series and no offense last night.
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@dbarmonstar said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
Roger Clemens is only slightly better than Kershaw in post season and pretty sure he was on Roids.
Roger was 3-0 with a 2.37 ERA and WHIP under 1.00 in 8 World Series starts.
I think he gets a bad rap. He wasnt as dominant in the postseason as the regular season. Considering its arguable that hes the greatest starting pitcher of all time, any step down is looked at more critically.
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@MathMan5072 said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
If Roberts sends out his top 4 arms in kelly, Treinen, Graterol, and Jansen and they get walked off because they cant score runs, they have no chance to win the series.
I know I’ve got dodger goggles on here. But if they can find a way to score some runs, they can still win this series. But, if they’re going to score 2 runs then the Braves deserve to win it.
He had a rested Pen. Treinen and Kelly had only pitched a third of an inning each.
Using Jansen in a blow out game the night before was stupid at best.
That is 3 innings right there....6, 7, 8.
When you are up 10 plus runs you can afford to leave a guy out there a little longer.
Or he could have used Wood for multiple innings since he is a starter.Well Roberts left Kelly and the boys in the pen and now he is down 3-1.
But heck they are rested at least.
You manage for today down 2-1 in a series.
If you need to use your pen to get it to 2-2, you do it. -
this is a good link to show how bad Kershaw really is the worst postseason pitcher in the history of the game.
http://baseballegg.com/2019/10/12/is-kershaw-the-worst-great-pitcher-in-postseason-history/This is a sad fact. When he is good he is good and when he is bad he is really bad there is no middle ground. QS numbers show it all.
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Let's play this out....
Roberts goes to the pen yesterday and they win.
Series tied 2-2
If they get smashed today because he needs to extend carrot top, being down 3-2 and a rested pen is feasible.Now he is down 3-1 and he cannot use his top arms 3 straight days.
Check mate.
The day to use the pen was yesterday.Throw Treinen, Kelly and Jansen...Rest for Game 5 and have them ready to deal games 6 and 7.
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@ItsaCanesthing said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
Let's play this out....
Roberts goes to the pen yesterday and they win.
Series tied 2-2
If they get smashed today because he needs to extend carrot top, being down 3-2 and a rested pen is feasible.Now he is down 3-1 and he cannot use his top arms 3 straight days.
Check mate.
The day to use the pen was yesterday.The problem Roberts also has and needed to use the best arms in the pen yesterday is Buehler has blisters.
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@dbarmonstar said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
@ItsaCanesthing said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
Let's play this out....
Roberts goes to the pen yesterday and they win.
Series tied 2-2
If they get smashed today because he needs to extend carrot top, being down 3-2 and a rested pen is feasible.Now he is down 3-1 and he cannot use his top arms 3 straight days.
Check mate.
The day to use the pen was yesterday.The problem Roberts also has and needed to use the best arms in the pen yesterday is Buehler has blisters.
The Rays gave us the blue print for using a compromised starter vs the Yanks.
One time through the lineup and that's it. If Walker has blisters then 3 innings is the most you can expect from him.
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@ItsaCanesthing said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
@dbarmonstar said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
@ItsaCanesthing said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
Let's play this out....
Roberts goes to the pen yesterday and they win.
Series tied 2-2
If they get smashed today because he needs to extend carrot top, being down 3-2 and a rested pen is feasible.Now he is down 3-1 and he cannot use his top arms 3 straight days.
Check mate.
The day to use the pen was yesterday.The problem Roberts also has and needed to use the best arms in the pen yesterday is Buehler has blisters.
The Rays gave us the blue print for using a compromised starter vs the Yanks.
One time through the lineup and that's it. If Walker has blisters then 3 innings is the most you can expect from him.
I Think dodgers win tonight but game 6 and 7 up against Fried and Anderson will be tough. Is it possible of course but not likely. You never know. I hope dodger can get it going and win the next 3.
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@ItsaCanesthing said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
@MathMan5072 said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
If Roberts sends out his top 4 arms in kelly, Treinen, Graterol, and Jansen and they get walked off because they cant score runs, they have no chance to win the series.
I know I’ve got dodger goggles on here. But if they can find a way to score some runs, they can still win this series. But, if they’re going to score 2 runs then the Braves deserve to win it.
He had a rested Pen. Treinen and Kelly had only pitched a third of an inning each.
Using Jansen in a blow out game the night before was stupid at best.
That is 3 innings right there....6, 7, 8.
When you are up 10 plus runs you can afford to leave a guy out there a little longer.
Or he could have used Wood for multiple innings since he is a starter.Well Roberts left Kelly and the boys in the pen and now he is down 3-1.
But heck they are rested at least.
You manage for today down 2-1 in a series.
If you need to use your pen to get it to 2-2, you do it.You make good points for sure. I think the Jansen thing must have been an understanding between both sides to see how he felt.
I think using the pen is a much better argument if the dodgers are up in a 4-3 or 5-3 game after 5. Then, yeah, use your dudes and win the game. I’m not saying you’re wrong, I just don’t agree.
I just want the dodgers to win so badly. They’re the only sports teams I follow and I’ve loved the dodgers since I was 6. There’s no excuses. The Braves are a good team. It’s just that our hopes get up so high every year.
Either way, I do believe it’s not insane to think the dodgers could win this series. Just gotta win tonight.
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Kershaw shouldn't have been sent out for the 6th. He was spent. He left it all on the field. Atlanta, right now, is the best team. They don't even have Soroka going whose the equivelant of Buehler. This rebuild has been good for them and they have John Copollela to thank. They arent going anywhere for awhile and still have talent sitting in the minors.
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@ItsaCanesthing said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
@mrcityofwin said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
Love me some kersh but this braves lineup is filth. Everyone locked in rn
It's the playoffs. Everyone has a stacked lineup.
If he wants to be considered an all time great, he needs to pitch great in the post season.
It might not be fair, but that is the standard baseball has used for over 100 years.He IS an all time great, plain and simple. Yes, he hasn’t been great in the playoffs, but he also hasn’t been as bad as you think, either. You are overreacting to an outing in which he gave up four runs to an awesome Braves lineup. This isn’t prime Kershaw, he’s nearing the end of his career and has been battling back issues for a while. Dude has three Cy Youngs, an MVP as a friggin pitcher, and was the best pitcher ever for the span of five years. Show a little [censored] respect.
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@formallyforearms said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
@dbarmonstar said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
Roger Clemens is only slightly better than Kershaw in post season and pretty sure he was on Roids.
Roger was 3-0 with a 2.37 ERA and WHIP under 1.00 in 8 World Series starts.
I think he gets a bad rap. He wasnt as dominant in the postseason as the regular season. Considering its arguable that hes the greatest starting pitcher of all time, any step down is looked at more critically.
I had to laugh at “the greatest starting pitcher of all time”. Thanks I needed that today
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@smalltownkid1990 said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
@ItsaCanesthing said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
@mrcityofwin said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
Love me some kersh but this braves lineup is filth. Everyone locked in rn
It's the playoffs. Everyone has a stacked lineup.
If he wants to be considered an all time great, he needs to pitch great in the post season.
It might not be fair, but that is the standard baseball has used for over 100 years.Show a little [censored] respect.
Oh buddy you stepped in it big time.
You are right Kershaw hasn't been as bad as I thought, he has been WORSE.
By most accounts he is the worst postseason pitcher EVER!!!!http://baseballegg.com/2019/10/12/is-kershaw-the-worst-great-pitcher-in-postseason-history/
(Thanks to @dbarmonstar for the link)And I am not over reacting to one bad outing, I am reacting to about 10 bad outings!!! You sound like a clown.
He sucked in the playoffs when he was young, at his peak and now at the end of his career.And you claim he was the best pitcher ever over 5 years, by what measure??
WAR? Nope
Heck he doesn't even have the best 5 yr run on his own team..Mr. Koufax would like a word with you clown.
Koufax from 62-66 not only matched Kershaw's 3 Cy Young's (only 1 CY for all of baseball then) and 1 MVP. He also finished 2nd in the MVP voting 2 other years. He Also lead the NL in ERA ALL five years.He also had two 10 plus WAR seasons, his 3rd best season of 8.1 WAR in 65 matches Kershaw's best season over your so called best ever 5 yr run.
BTW, he also won 2 World Series MVP's during the run, but yeah Kershaw was better.
The only time Kershaw saw a WS MVP award was when they handed it to the team that just whooped his a$$.And for as great as Koufax was Randy Johnson's run from 98-2002 was probably better.
So before you go around telling people to show a little respect you better check yourself and make sure your facts are straight before you look like a complete and total moron.
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@ItsaCanesthing said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
@smalltownkid1990 said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
@ItsaCanesthing said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
@mrcityofwin said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
Love me some kersh but this braves lineup is filth. Everyone locked in rn
It's the playoffs. Everyone has a stacked lineup.
If he wants to be considered an all time great, he needs to pitch great in the post season.
It might not be fair, but that is the standard baseball has used for over 100 years.Show a little [censored] respect.
Oh buddy you stepped in it big time.
You are right Kershaw hasn't been as bad as I thought, he has been WORSE.
By most accounts he is the worst postseason pitcher EVER!!!!http://baseballegg.com/2019/10/12/is-kershaw-the-worst-great-pitcher-in-postseason-history/
(Thanks to @dbarmonstar for the link)And I am not over reacting to one bad outing, I am reacting to about 10 bad outings!!! You sound like a clown.
He sucked in the playoffs when he was young, at his peak and now at the end of his career.And you claim he was the best pitcher ever over 5 years, by what measure??
WAR? Nope
Heck he doesn't even have the best 5 yr run on his own team..Mr. Koufax would like a word with you clown.
Koufax from 62-66 not only matched Kershaw's 3 Cy Young's (only 1 CY for all of baseball then) and 1 MVP. He also finished 2nd in the MVP voting 2 other years. He Also lead the NL in ERA ALL five years.He also had two 10 plus WAR seasons, his 3rd best season of 8.1 WAR in 65 matches Kershaw's best season over your so called best ever 5 yr run.
BTW, he also won 2 World Series MVP's during the run, but yeah Kershaw was better.
The only time Kershaw saw a WS MVP award was when they handed it to the team that just whooped his a$$.And for as great as Koufax was Randy Johnson's run from 98-2002 was probably better.
So before you go around telling people to show a little respect you better check yourself and make sure your facts are straight before you look like a complete and total moron.
Yes his 2013-2017 five season stretch is the best ever by many pitching metrics. Worst postseason pitcher?? Kershaws postseason ERA is 4.31, not great but far from the “worst postseason pitcher ever.” Stop being an ungrateful little brat and appreciate baseball greatness when it’s in front of you. Now have a great weekend you little [censored] and say hi to mommy for me
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@smalltownkid1990 said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
@ItsaCanesthing said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
@smalltownkid1990 said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
@ItsaCanesthing said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
@mrcityofwin said in Kershaw crumbles in the big playoff game (again):
Love me some kersh but this braves lineup is filth. Everyone locked in rn
It's the playoffs. Everyone has a stacked lineup.
If he wants to be considered an all time great, he needs to pitch great in the post season.
It might not be fair, but that is the standard baseball has used for over 100 years.Show a little [censored] respect.
Oh buddy you stepped in it big time.
You are right Kershaw hasn't been as bad as I thought, he has been WORSE.
By most accounts he is the worst postseason pitcher EVER!!!!http://baseballegg.com/2019/10/12/is-kershaw-the-worst-great-pitcher-in-postseason-history/
(Thanks to @dbarmonstar for the link)And I am not over reacting to one bad outing, I am reacting to about 10 bad outings!!! You sound like a clown.
He sucked in the playoffs when he was young, at his peak and now at the end of his career.And you claim he was the best pitcher ever over 5 years, by what measure??
WAR? Nope
Heck he doesn't even have the best 5 yr run on his own team..Mr. Koufax would like a word with you clown.
Koufax from 62-66 not only matched Kershaw's 3 Cy Young's (only 1 CY for all of baseball then) and 1 MVP. He also finished 2nd in the MVP voting 2 other years. He Also lead the NL in ERA ALL five years.He also had two 10 plus WAR seasons, his 3rd best season of 8.1 WAR in 65 matches Kershaw's best season over your so called best ever 5 yr run.
BTW, he also won 2 World Series MVP's during the run, but yeah Kershaw was better.
The only time Kershaw saw a WS MVP award was when they handed it to the team that just whooped his a$$.And for as great as Koufax was Randy Johnson's run from 98-2002 was probably better.
So before you go around telling people to show a little respect you better check yourself and make sure your facts are straight before you look like a complete and total moron.
Yes his 2013-2017 five season stretch is the best ever by many pitching metrics. Worst postseason pitcher?? Kershaws postseason ERA is 4.31, not great but far from the “worst postseason pitcher ever.” Stop being an ungrateful little brat and appreciate baseball greatness when it’s in front of you. Now have a great weekend you little [censored] and say hi to mommy for me
What metrics??
Yours perhaps. There isn't a knowledgeable baseball fan (other than you and Dodgers fanboys) that would call Kershaw's 5 yr run the best ever..
Did you not read the numbers Koufax put up?
He also struck out 300 plus hitters 3 times in that span, Kershaw? once.There isn't a postseason pitcher with at least 50 IP whose ERA, HR/9 and expected runs goes up more than Kershaw.
Yep, WORST Postseason Pitcher EVER!!! Live with it fanboystop sniffing his jock and get your head out of his a$$.
BTW, tell your mom I left a $20 for her on the nightstand.
