Kyle Seager
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@lberrybats77_psn said in Kyle Seager:
Don’t get me wrong, Kyle seager has been the only good thing in Seattle that has stuck around through the years without being traded away and I wish his career would have taken off after his all star season, it just slowly has been crashing down
Yeah as a Mariner fan that watches a lot of games I have to agree with this. I love the passion of the guy trying to argue Kyle into a gold but if we are being honest he’s basically a one tool player at this point. His power and clutch ratings deserve to be high but that’s about it. I would argue Ty France and JP Crawford deserve gold much more than he does.
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I think Ty and JP will be there soon enough.
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If my fellow Mariners fans want to complain about a Mariner getting screwed on a rating, JP’s defense is criminally underrated. There is simply no way he should only be an 80. The guy won a gold glove there last year and was just rated the best defensive shortstop in the AL by a survey of MLB execs.
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@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@quinnymcquinn said in Kyle Seager:
Gallo in all metrics is pretty much ahead of seager.
This is the problem with metrics. Gallo has a lower batting average, less home runs, way less rbi. If the argument is that he is gold because he is an “elite” left fielder, I call BS on that.
I think Gallo is gold because he plays for the Yankees.
You realize he started off as a diamond this year for Texas? And has been downgraded since. Look at his contact and vision can’t go much lower for Gallo. Being a Yankee hasn’t done anything to his rating.
If you want seager to be gold then your comparison to Joey Gallo drastically hurts your argument. Gallo is an elite defender that gets on base and hits for power. Seager.... only hits for power. He’s league average at 3rd.
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I’m giving up this argument.
You guys can enjoy your fangraphs all you want. Elite Defender my a$$. Don’t get me wrong, I like Gallo, but he looks like a deer in the headlights in left field at Yankee stadium right now.And to my fellow M’s fan arguing that JP’s defense is criminally underrated, here come the “gold gloves mean nothing” and “he’s league average at best”. His dWAR is probably not high enough or some $hit. A bunch of guys that look at sabermetric stats and have never seen the guy play.
I’ll leave this here:
https://twitter.com/mariners/status/1434676616462962689?s=21 -
You guys see the “elite defender” Joey Gallo drop a shallow fly ball in left tonight?
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Have you been waiting 20 days for Joey Gallo to make an error?
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@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
You guys see the “elite defender” Joey Gallo drop a shallow fly ball in left tonight?
No, but I see Kyle Seager still only has a 103 wRC+
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Lol. Who cares.
I still think the whole, “Seager is a lame defender” and “Gallo is an elite defender” based on sabermetric stats is pretty ridiculous.
There is nothing elite about an outfielder dropping a fly ball he is camped under. There should be a stat called AHBI for “and he botches it!”.
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@halfbutt_PSN
So are you under the impression that Elite defenders never make a bad play throughout their entire career? I respect the passion but you are seriously blinded by your Homer bias -
@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
Lol. Who cares.
I still think the whole, “Seager is a lame defender” and “Gallo is an elite defender” based on sabermetric stats is pretty ridiculous.
There is nothing elite about an outfielder dropping a fly ball he is camped under. There should be a stat called AHBI for “and he botches it!”.
Arenado slipped and dropped an infield pop fly last night, is he now a common defender at 3rd?
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@dolenz_psn said in Kyle Seager:
Have you been waiting 20 days for Joey Gallo to make an error?
Ha! Nice one.
Actually no, but he’s made a couple lately. I just think it’s funny that the argument is, “Gallo is an elite defender at whatever position he plays” and then irl Gallo drops two cans of corn in a span of about a week.
My issue with all of this is using stats out of context, or hyper focussing on them at the expense of other obvious things.
Kyle Seager is having a career year this year, and you guys think he is not a good hitter because his average is low and his wrC+ is 103 or whatever.
Since moneyball, things have swung too far in the opposite direction IMO.
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@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@dolenz_psn said in Kyle Seager:
Have you been waiting 20 days for Joey Gallo to make an error?
Ha! Nice one.
Actually no, but he’s made a couple lately. I just think it’s funny that the argument is, “Gallo is an elite defender at whatever position he plays” and then irl Gallo drops two cans of corn in a span of about a week.
My issue with all of this is using stats out of context, or hyper focussing on them at the expense of other obvious things.
Kyle Seager is having a career year this year, and you guys think he is not a good hitter because his average is low and his wrC+ is 103 or whatever.
Since moneyball, things have swung too far in the opposite direction IMO.
"using stats out of context", sounds like something half rear is doing right now.
Relax, you'll get your juiced Seager card when finest comes out. Although, if we are allowed to vote again this year, my vote is going to Luis Torrens, just so you can create a new thread about this topic
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@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@dolenz_psn said in Kyle Seager:
Have you been waiting 20 days for Joey Gallo to make an error?
Ha! Nice one.
Actually no, but he’s made a couple lately. I just think it’s funny that the argument is, “Gallo is an elite defender at whatever position he plays” and then irl Gallo drops two cans of corn in a span of about a week.
My issue with all of this is using stats out of context, or hyper focussing on them at the expense of other obvious things.
Kyle Seager is having a career year this year, and you guys think he is not a good hitter because his average is low and his wrC+ is 103 or whatever.
Since moneyball, things have swung too far in the opposite direction IMO.
I genuinely don’t understand what would make you think Seager is having a career year. He’s had 7 seasons that are better than this year.
2012: 108 wRC+, 3.8 fWAR
2013: 116 wRC+, 4.2 fWAR
2014: 127 wRC+, 5.2 fWAR
2015: 115 wRC+, 3.8 fWAR
2016: 134 wRC+, 5.2 fWAR
2017: 106 wRC+, 3.5 fWAR
2019: 111 wRC+, 3.0 fWAR2021: 103 wRC+, 2.8 fWAR
No one is using stats out of context, you’re just saying that because they don’t line up with your “eye test” or whatever.
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I dont think you would be a very good talent evaluator if you think this is a career year for Seager.
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He was better in 14’ and 16’ and its not even that close.
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Say all the guys looking at sabermetric stats.
Sure, he hit for better average in 2016 but that’s about it. He is the same defender he was then, pretty much, and he has exceeded his totals for home runs and rbi. Most in his career, hence “career year”.
I’m not making this [censored] up. Oh wait, home runs and rbi don’t matter. Weighted runs created. Wins above replacement.
I feel just like a guy who hit into the shift with a hard ground ball up the middle, or the pitcher who induced a ground ball to short, only to have it go into left field because the shortstop is on the other side of the diamond.
We are talking different languages. I am telling you I don’t care about wrC+ and fwar. You are saying I’m only looking at home runs and rbi which don’t matter.
This is a pointless argument.
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@halfbutt_PSN
As stated before, I would not trust you to run a franchise. I will take a guy that hats closer to .300 with 20 HRS over a guy with around a .210 average and 35 HRS any day because they are more likely to make contact and keep innings going. Seager is also tied for 20th most strikeouts with 153. I want consistency, not boom or bust -
@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
Say all the guys looking at sabermetric stats.
Sure, he hit for better average in 2016 but that’s about it. He is the same defender he was then, pretty much, and he has exceeded his totals for home runs and rbi. Most in his career, hence “career year”.
I’m not making this [censored] up. Oh wait, home runs and rbi don’t matter. Weighted runs created. Wins above replacement.
I feel just like a guy who hit into the shift with a hard ground ball up the middle, or the pitcher who induced a ground ball to short, only to have it go into left field because the shortstop is on the other side of the diamond.
We are talking different languages. I am telling you I don’t care about wrC+ and fwar. You are saying I’m only looking at home runs and rbi which don’t matter.
This is a pointless argument.
You’re the only person that would call a player’s 2nd worst career season (not counting 2011 or 2020) a career year. How can you actually suggest this season is even close to comparable to his 2016 season? You’re just making stuff up without checking it at all.
Since you can’t wrap your head around wRC+, we’ll have to do this the long way.
2016: .278 AVG, .359 OBP, .499 SLG, 10.2 BB%, 16.0 K%
2021: .216 AVG, .291 OBP, .448 SLG, 9.1 BB%, 23.7 K%
So as you can see, he was just a much better hitter in general in 2016, which is what wRC+ tells us without having to look at all the individual numbers. -
@lucas8181_psn said in Kyle Seager:
Relax, you'll get your juiced Seager card when finest comes out.
It's already out. He has a 96 Sig Series Card.
