Kyle Seager
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@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@jogger171717_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@jogger171717_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@quinnymcquinn said in Kyle Seager:
Gallo in all metrics is pretty much ahead of seager.
This is the problem with metrics. Gallo has a lower batting average, less home runs, way less rbi. If the argument is that he is gold because he is an “elite” left fielder, I call BS on that.
I think Gallo is gold because he plays for the Yankees.
How are you this dense? Gallo has a 122 wRC+, Seager has a 103 wRC+
That means Gallo is 22% better than the league average, while seager is only 3%.
With The Show overalls falling into the tiers of common, bronze, silver, gold, and diamond, it makes perfect sense that a guy that’s basically a league-average hitter would fall into the middle silver tier.
You don’t get it.
I’m not dense either so thanks for trying to make it personal.The only dense thing in this thread is saying that a guy fifth in the league in rbi and sixth in the league in home runs in a “league average” hitter. You guys need to watch more games and look less at sabermetric stats.
It’s only a matter of time before SDS makes Seager a LS gold anyway.
Dense. Wow dude.
The fact that you either keep ignoring Seager’s wRC+ or just can’t be bothered to understand what it actually means is what makes you dense. He has not been a good hitter this year. We aren’t in 2016 anymore, when he had a 134 wRC+. RBI totals don’t tell if a guy is good at hitting or not. A routine ground ball or weak pop fly can result in an RBI. Hitting home runs is great, but it doesn’t automatically mean a guy is a good offensive player, especially if that’s literally the only thing they’re capable of doing. Seager’s home runs just simply aren’t enough to outweigh all of his other flaws.
I’m not an idiot. I understand what wRC+ is.
I just think it is funny that you guys view Seager as a flawed player.If he were on another team, I think it is a solid bet that he’d be gold, but I’m ok with it.
This is the problem with looking at statistics out of context. Look at Ohtani. His numbers are staggering but his team is in the cellar.
What is that wRC+ really worth?
We view Seager as a flawed player because he is a flawed player. If you actually understood what having a 103 wRC+ means, you would too.
Out of context? Comparing an incredibly small sample size to a full season and saying both player’s stats hold the same weight would be using statistics out of context. Simply showing that Kyle Seager’s statistics are bad to slightly above average isn’t looking at them out of context, it’s just looking at them.
I’m not sure what Ohtani has to do with this. Does being on a bad team somehow devalue his stats to you? Should trout have never won any MVPs because he played on a bad team? I really don’t understand where you were going with that. Seager = not very good, ohtani = very good, and team records are irrelevant to what those two individual players do.
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@lberrybats77_psn said in Kyle Seager:
How much are you invested in Kyle seager?
As a Mariners fan I am extremely disappointed he’s still regressing. I thought he hit his low in batting average but just over 200 on the year, yikes. Yes home runs but so many useless at bats. Honestly I’ve seen a lot of his at bats look down right terrible. He will not do well in free agency next year.I’m not that invested in him, honestly, and yes, he had some disappointing at bats tonight.
I’m more just questioning the way player OVR is “calculated”.
Sure, we can look at all sorts of stats and find ways to support a lot of points of view.
Looking at all the LS 3b, there are not many that are gold. Somehow, Rendon is still gold but to be fair, he has been hurt forever.
The point was made earlier that Seager already has near to max Clutch attributes. His power is 79/89 and he is playing up 11. How much more would his power need to go up?
One thing that really stands out looking at Gallo’s card is his 125 discipline. Isn’t discipline related to k’s? His power is 100/92. I’m assuming the power attribute is based on some other metric than home runs ?
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@halfbutt_PSN
I can't say definitively but I would say slugging percent would be a better indicator for power than simply HR numbers -
@kovz88_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@halfbutt_PSN
I can't say definitively but I would say slugging percent would be a better indicator for power than simply HR numbersHmm. Yes, or maybe barrel rate/average exit velocity?
That’s kinda what I’m getting at though. We know it is a three year average for LS players. We don’t really know what exactly the attributes are calculated from. Discipline? Vision? Clutch for that matter...
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@lberrybats77_psn said in Kyle Seager:
How much are you invested in Kyle seager?
As a Mariners fan I am extremely disappointed he’s still regressing. I thought he hit his low in batting average but just over 200 on the year, yikes. Yes home runs but so many useless at bats. Honestly I’ve seen a lot of his at bats look down right terrible. He will not do well in free agency next year.Your take is disgraceful
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Don’t get me wrong, Kyle seager has been the only good thing in Seattle that has stuck around through the years without being traded away and I wish his career would have taken off after his all star season, it just slowly has been crashing down
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@lberrybats77_psn said in Kyle Seager:
Don’t get me wrong, Kyle seager has been the only good thing in Seattle that has stuck around through the years without being traded away and I wish his career would have taken off after his all star season, it just slowly has been crashing down
Yeah as a Mariner fan that watches a lot of games I have to agree with this. I love the passion of the guy trying to argue Kyle into a gold but if we are being honest he’s basically a one tool player at this point. His power and clutch ratings deserve to be high but that’s about it. I would argue Ty France and JP Crawford deserve gold much more than he does.
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I think Ty and JP will be there soon enough.
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If my fellow Mariners fans want to complain about a Mariner getting screwed on a rating, JP’s defense is criminally underrated. There is simply no way he should only be an 80. The guy won a gold glove there last year and was just rated the best defensive shortstop in the AL by a survey of MLB execs.
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@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@quinnymcquinn said in Kyle Seager:
Gallo in all metrics is pretty much ahead of seager.
This is the problem with metrics. Gallo has a lower batting average, less home runs, way less rbi. If the argument is that he is gold because he is an “elite” left fielder, I call BS on that.
I think Gallo is gold because he plays for the Yankees.
You realize he started off as a diamond this year for Texas? And has been downgraded since. Look at his contact and vision can’t go much lower for Gallo. Being a Yankee hasn’t done anything to his rating.
If you want seager to be gold then your comparison to Joey Gallo drastically hurts your argument. Gallo is an elite defender that gets on base and hits for power. Seager.... only hits for power. He’s league average at 3rd.
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I’m giving up this argument.
You guys can enjoy your fangraphs all you want. Elite Defender my a$$. Don’t get me wrong, I like Gallo, but he looks like a deer in the headlights in left field at Yankee stadium right now.And to my fellow M’s fan arguing that JP’s defense is criminally underrated, here come the “gold gloves mean nothing” and “he’s league average at best”. His dWAR is probably not high enough or some $hit. A bunch of guys that look at sabermetric stats and have never seen the guy play.
I’ll leave this here:
https://twitter.com/mariners/status/1434676616462962689?s=21 -
You guys see the “elite defender” Joey Gallo drop a shallow fly ball in left tonight?
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Have you been waiting 20 days for Joey Gallo to make an error?
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@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
You guys see the “elite defender” Joey Gallo drop a shallow fly ball in left tonight?
No, but I see Kyle Seager still only has a 103 wRC+
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Lol. Who cares.
I still think the whole, “Seager is a lame defender” and “Gallo is an elite defender” based on sabermetric stats is pretty ridiculous.
There is nothing elite about an outfielder dropping a fly ball he is camped under. There should be a stat called AHBI for “and he botches it!”.
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@halfbutt_PSN
So are you under the impression that Elite defenders never make a bad play throughout their entire career? I respect the passion but you are seriously blinded by your Homer bias -
@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
Lol. Who cares.
I still think the whole, “Seager is a lame defender” and “Gallo is an elite defender” based on sabermetric stats is pretty ridiculous.
There is nothing elite about an outfielder dropping a fly ball he is camped under. There should be a stat called AHBI for “and he botches it!”.
Arenado slipped and dropped an infield pop fly last night, is he now a common defender at 3rd?
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@dolenz_psn said in Kyle Seager:
Have you been waiting 20 days for Joey Gallo to make an error?
Ha! Nice one.
Actually no, but he’s made a couple lately. I just think it’s funny that the argument is, “Gallo is an elite defender at whatever position he plays” and then irl Gallo drops two cans of corn in a span of about a week.
My issue with all of this is using stats out of context, or hyper focussing on them at the expense of other obvious things.
Kyle Seager is having a career year this year, and you guys think he is not a good hitter because his average is low and his wrC+ is 103 or whatever.
Since moneyball, things have swung too far in the opposite direction IMO.
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@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@dolenz_psn said in Kyle Seager:
Have you been waiting 20 days for Joey Gallo to make an error?
Ha! Nice one.
Actually no, but he’s made a couple lately. I just think it’s funny that the argument is, “Gallo is an elite defender at whatever position he plays” and then irl Gallo drops two cans of corn in a span of about a week.
My issue with all of this is using stats out of context, or hyper focussing on them at the expense of other obvious things.
Kyle Seager is having a career year this year, and you guys think he is not a good hitter because his average is low and his wrC+ is 103 or whatever.
Since moneyball, things have swung too far in the opposite direction IMO.
"using stats out of context", sounds like something half rear is doing right now.
Relax, you'll get your juiced Seager card when finest comes out. Although, if we are allowed to vote again this year, my vote is going to Luis Torrens, just so you can create a new thread about this topic
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@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@dolenz_psn said in Kyle Seager:
Have you been waiting 20 days for Joey Gallo to make an error?
Ha! Nice one.
Actually no, but he’s made a couple lately. I just think it’s funny that the argument is, “Gallo is an elite defender at whatever position he plays” and then irl Gallo drops two cans of corn in a span of about a week.
My issue with all of this is using stats out of context, or hyper focussing on them at the expense of other obvious things.
Kyle Seager is having a career year this year, and you guys think he is not a good hitter because his average is low and his wrC+ is 103 or whatever.
Since moneyball, things have swung too far in the opposite direction IMO.
I genuinely don’t understand what would make you think Seager is having a career year. He’s had 7 seasons that are better than this year.
2012: 108 wRC+, 3.8 fWAR
2013: 116 wRC+, 4.2 fWAR
2014: 127 wRC+, 5.2 fWAR
2015: 115 wRC+, 3.8 fWAR
2016: 134 wRC+, 5.2 fWAR
2017: 106 wRC+, 3.5 fWAR
2019: 111 wRC+, 3.0 fWAR2021: 103 wRC+, 2.8 fWAR
No one is using stats out of context, you’re just saying that because they don’t line up with your “eye test” or whatever.
