Give Cubs SP Kyle Hendricks some love already! MLB leader in wins and he gets a downgrade!?
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The correct answer is: A pitcher doesn't win you a game but they sure as heck can lose it
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@ccarr77_psn said in Give Cubs SP Kyle Hendricks some love already! MLB leader in wins and he gets a downgrade!?:
@hikes83_psn said in Give Cubs SP Kyle Hendricks some love already! MLB leader in wins and he gets a downgrade!?:
Time for my favourite Bill Murray quote:
“It's hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it's [censored] near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person.”
My favorite life quote: Mind your own business. Homeboy literally wrote pitcher's don't win games. That's simply not true
You're making a semantics argument and missing the point that his statement was an argument just as much in support of pitchers as it was a criticism of Hendricks overall.
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@savefarris_psn said in Give Cubs SP Kyle Hendricks some love already! MLB leader in wins and he gets a downgrade!?:
@ccarr77_psn said in Give Cubs SP Kyle Hendricks some love already! MLB leader in wins and he gets a downgrade!?:
If your team win a game 1-0 then indeed your pitcher "won" that game for your team.
Please point to all the 1-0 shutouts won by Kyle Hendricks this year.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.fcgi?id=hendrky01&t=p&year=2021
Go ahead, I'll wait...
HAHAHAHAHAHA
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@ccarr77_psn said in Give Cubs SP Kyle Hendricks some love already! MLB leader in wins and he gets a downgrade!?:
@savefarris_psn said in Give Cubs SP Kyle Hendricks some love already! MLB leader in wins and he gets a downgrade!?:
@ccarr77_psn said in Give Cubs SP Kyle Hendricks some love already! MLB leader in wins and he gets a downgrade!?:
If your team win a game 1-0 then indeed your pitcher "won" that game for your team.
Please point to all the 1-0 shutouts won by Kyle Hendricks this year.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.fcgi?id=hendrky01&t=p&year=2021
Go ahead, I'll wait...
This was last year....my point still stands. You guys sound stupid claiming pitcher's can't win games for their team. I wonder if DeGrom is capable of winning a game for his ball team?
Again, this is a stupid semantics argument. The pitcher pitches well and puts his team in a position to win but unless he is knocking in runs, he's not winning games for his team.
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@ccarr77_psn said in Give Cubs SP Kyle Hendricks some love already! MLB leader in wins and he gets a downgrade!?:
@chuckclc_psn said in Give Cubs SP Kyle Hendricks some love already! MLB leader in wins and he gets a downgrade!?:
@ccarr77_psn said in Give Cubs SP Kyle Hendricks some love already! MLB leader in wins and he gets a downgrade!?:
@chuckclc_psn said in Give Cubs SP Kyle Hendricks some love already! MLB leader in wins and he gets a downgrade!?:
Because you are claiming the opposite I could say you are saying that a SP that gives up 8 ER and wins did his job. That is ridiculous. But I am not gonna say that because its stupid.
....but I didn't write that anywhere.
Here is what you wrote...
"Also has a 4.66 FIP and a 1.275 WHIP. The worst he has ever had. Pitchers dont win games."
You edited your comment to add "teams do'...
Ok, and that was before anyone responded, whats your point?
Andwer this and we can be done....
Who won the games for the Cubs when they shutout the Cardinals on 81 pitches with Kyle Hendricks on the mound?
I'll wait...
That was 2 years ago. Dont think that 1 outing will change his rating too much for this year.
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@ccarr77_psn said in Give Cubs SP Kyle Hendricks some love already! MLB leader in wins and he gets a downgrade!?:
@chuckclc_psn said in Give Cubs SP Kyle Hendricks some love already! MLB leader in wins and he gets a downgrade!?:
@ccarr77_psn said in Give Cubs SP Kyle Hendricks some love already! MLB leader in wins and he gets a downgrade!?:
@chuckclc_psn said in Give Cubs SP Kyle Hendricks some love already! MLB leader in wins and he gets a downgrade!?:
Also has a 4.66 FIP and a 1.275 WHIP. The worst he has ever had. Pitchers dont win games. Teams do. There is no attribute that looks at pitchers W/L. A pitcher with a 5-15 record and a 2.25 ERA is a WAY better pitcher than a pitcher with a 15-5 record and a 3.50 ERA (ask deGrom in years past).
Also I think Hendricks leads the league in the most hits given up. Thats not a good thing.
"Pitcher's don't win games".......LOL
Nope! They put themselves in position to win if they pitch well, but you can pitch your [censored] off and still lose.
You make no sense. Just because you can pitch well and still lose doesn't mean pitcher's can't win the game.
Who is responsible for a shutout win?
The offense. Pitcher wins don't mean [censored] anyway, they're the most useless statistic in the beisbol.
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138 hits (only 3.7 ERA) and still has 13 wins and only 4 losses? What does that tell you!? Pitching clutch much? Now if you cant agree he should go up, tell how he is going down and Alzolay is higher rated. The should at least switch the two.
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@snowninja_mlbts said in Give Cubs SP Kyle Hendricks some love already! MLB leader in wins and he gets a downgrade!?:
138 hits (only 3.7 ERA) and still has 13 wins and only 4 losses? What does that tell you!? Pitching clutch much? Now if you cant agree he should go up, tell how he is going down and Alzolay is higher rated. The should at least switch the two.
Alzolay gives up less hits/inning and strikes out more batters/inning than Hendricks. The biggest knock on Alzolay is his control as he walks alot more batters
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@chuckclc_psn said in Give Cubs SP Kyle Hendricks some love already! MLB leader in wins and he gets a downgrade!?:
Also has a 4.66 FIP and a 1.275 WHIP. The worst he has ever had. Pitchers dont win games. Teams do. There is no attribute that looks at pitchers W/L. A pitcher with a 5-15 record and a 2.25 ERA is a WAY better pitcher than a pitcher with a 15-5 record and a 3.50 ERA (ask deGrom in years past).
Also I think Hendricks leads the league in the most hits given up. Thats not a good thing.
I’m not saying Hendricks is an outstanding starting pitcher but FIP is a really bad stat to look at for him. He consistently outperforms metrics such as fip because they do such a bad job grading him in particular
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@hikes83_psn said in Give Cubs SP Kyle Hendricks some love already! MLB leader in wins and he gets a downgrade!?:
@ccarr77_psn said in Give Cubs SP Kyle Hendricks some love already! MLB leader in wins and he gets a downgrade!?:
@chuckclc_psn said in Give Cubs SP Kyle Hendricks some love already! MLB leader in wins and he gets a downgrade!?:
Because you are claiming the opposite I could say you are saying that a SP that gives up 8 ER and wins did his job. That is ridiculous. But I am not gonna say that because its stupid.
....but I didn't write that anywhere.
Here is what you wrote...
"Also has a 4.66 FIP and a 1.275 WHIP. The worst he has ever had. Pitchers dont win games."
You edited your comment to add "teams do'...
He’s generalizing of course. Why be so literal?
Jesus, SANITY. How hard is this to understand, right? Both of these guys are dug in.
YES, a pitcher who throws a gem can "win" a game for his team. TRANSLATION: Be the major reason why the team won that game.
YES, a pitcher's W-L record rarely tells the complete or real story of his effectiveness as a pitcher.
Some people just like to fight. And they keep the flames high by doubling down on strict interpretations of what's written.
Be adults, Jesus.
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WHIP, FIP, and pretty much every other pitching metric > using W/L record to assess a pitcher's production like it's still 1986
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Shutouts all that matters? Give me a break. He doesn't walk batters AND have you checked the Quality Starts category? That is what really matters. Hendo again is only 2nd in the entire MLB with 16 quality starts behind W. Buehler. You know what complete games do? Wear a pitcher out and ruin his longevity. And the live Series goes off how the current player is doing at the time. Look at Hendricks last 15 starts. 11-0 with a 2.78 ERA.
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At least explain to me how Hendricks is going down? And how Alzolay has a higher rating? I'll wait...
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@snowninja_mlbts said in Give Cubs SP Kyle Hendricks some love already! MLB leader in wins and he gets a downgrade!?:
Shutouts all that matters? Give me a break. He doesn't walk batters AND have you checked the Quality Starts category? That is what really matters. Hendo again is only 2nd in the entire MLB with 16 quality starts behind W. Buehler. You know what complete games do? Wear a pitcher out and ruin his longevity. And the live Series goes off how the current player is doing at the time. Look at Hendricks last 15 starts. 11-0 with a 2.78 ERA.
Live Series is based on the last 3 seasons, with the current season being the last of the 3.
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@lankyryan_psn said in Give Cubs SP Kyle Hendricks some love already! MLB leader in wins and he gets a downgrade!?:
@snowninja_mlbts said in Give Cubs SP Kyle Hendricks some love already! MLB leader in wins and he gets a downgrade!?:
Shutouts all that matters? Give me a break. He doesn't walk batters AND have you checked the Quality Starts category? That is what really matters. Hendo again is only 2nd in the entire MLB with 16 quality starts behind W. Buehler. You know what complete games do? Wear a pitcher out and ruin his longevity. And the live Series goes off how the current player is doing at the time. Look at Hendricks last 15 starts. 11-0 with a 2.78 ERA.
Live Series is based on the last 3 seasons, with the current season being the last of the 3.
Still doesnt explain how he is going down. How is he going down?
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@snowninja_mlbts said in Give Cubs SP Kyle Hendricks some love already! MLB leader in wins and he gets a downgrade!?:
@lankyryan_psn said in Give Cubs SP Kyle Hendricks some love already! MLB leader in wins and he gets a downgrade!?:
@snowninja_mlbts said in Give Cubs SP Kyle Hendricks some love already! MLB leader in wins and he gets a downgrade!?:
Shutouts all that matters? Give me a break. He doesn't walk batters AND have you checked the Quality Starts category? That is what really matters. Hendo again is only 2nd in the entire MLB with 16 quality starts behind W. Buehler. You know what complete games do? Wear a pitcher out and ruin his longevity. And the live Series goes off how the current player is doing at the time. Look at Hendricks last 15 starts. 11-0 with a 2.78 ERA.
Live Series is based on the last 3 seasons, with the current season being the last of the 3.
Still doesnt explain how he is going down. How is he going down?
He allows 9.7 hits every 9 innings. He only strikes out 17.2% of batters he faces. His BB/9 is elite, and he still has a WHIP of 1.275. He pitches in arguably the least competitive division in the league.
Contact pitchers don't get rewarded by SDS' attributes rating system. Strikeout pitchers do. It's the only explanation for why Ryu hasn't gone diamond, either.
Stamina, Durability, and BB/9 attributes getting a boost aren't gonna be enough to upgrade a pitcher.
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@snowninja_mlbts said in Give Cubs SP Kyle Hendricks some love already! MLB leader in wins and he gets a downgrade!?:
138 hits (only 3.7 ERA) and still has 13 wins and only 4 losses? What does that tell you!? Pitching clutch much? Now if you cant agree he should go up, tell how he is going down and Alzolay is higher rated. The should at least switch the two.
He's given up more hits than innings pitched. His team averags almost 5.5 runs per game for him. He's not even top ten in any category except for Wins and Starts. We can quibble over what his ranking should be on DD but pointing at his win totals isn't the way to do it.
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@snowninja_mlbts said in Give Cubs SP Kyle Hendricks some love already! MLB leader in wins and he gets a downgrade!?:
Shutouts all that matters? Give me a break. He doesn't walk batters AND have you checked the Quality Starts category? That is what really matters. Hendo again is only 2nd in the entire MLB with 16 quality starts behind W. Buehler. You know what complete games do? Wear a pitcher out and ruin his longevity. And the live Series goes off how the current player is doing at the time. Look at Hendricks last 15 starts. 11-0 with a 2.78 ERA.
Haha. Now we've strayed into pointing to Quality Starts.
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@chuckclc_psn said in Give Cubs SP Kyle Hendricks some love already! MLB leader in wins and he gets a downgrade!?:
Also has a 4.66 FIP and a 1.275 WHIP. The worst he has ever had. Pitchers dont win games. Teams do. There is no attribute that looks at pitchers W/L. A pitcher with a 5-15 record and a 2.25 ERA is a WAY better pitcher than a pitcher with a 15-5 record and a 3.50 ERA (ask deGrom in years past).
Also I think Hendricks leads the league in the most hits given up. Thats not a good thing.
While true, they use to base the Cy Young award on wins. One reason Nolan Ryan never won the Cy Young.
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@lankyryan_psn said in Give Cubs SP Kyle Hendricks some love already! MLB leader in wins and he gets a downgrade!?:
WHIP, FIP, and pretty much every other pitching metric > using W/L record to assess a pitcher's production like it's still 1986
Well if I see a pitcher was 22-3 for an entire season and see no other stats, I am going out on a limb and say he is good.
