Derek Jeter Concept Art

[King Cals_XBL]

What ever happened to the eye test and not just statistics. Jeter is arguably one of the best SS to play the game along with Ripken arod banks and Wagner. To say jeter is overrated bc of his hype is ridiculous bc he was an icon for two decades. Re2pect the guy and his accomplishments. Statistics is just a bunch of numbers. Winning is the only thing that matters and jeter was the core for the Yankees titles. Were there other players that contributed? Of course. But right there always was jeter leading the way. Give the man credit and just admit he’s a biracial angel.

[decimation92_PSN]

Don't get me involved in this. People who try their hardest to convince people that Jeter was some average scrub, are the most pathetic, clueless fans in Baseball. To think otherwise, means you are Wrong. That's all that there is to it

[KDClemson_PSN]

@decimation92_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

Don't get me involved in this. People who try their hardest to convince people that Jeter was some average scrub, are the most pathetic, clueless fans in Baseball. To think otherwise, means you are Wrong. That's all that there is to it

100%, it’s honestly sad.

[Nanos_McGregor]

He’s not the greatest shortstop of all time. I’d put A Rod over him and he played half his career there.

[Nanthrax_1_PSN]

What's honestly sad is you ignored everything I said with actual stats. I said multiple times, Jeter is great. He's a top 8-10 all time SS. I'd even put him ahead of the big group he's clumped up with because of his postseason play (despite being extremely lucky to get those opportunities)... He is not Cal Ripken, that's it.. if you want to compare him to the some of the greatest, he will come up short. He's the next tier.
You can bring up WS rings (a team effort), and his better oWAR propped up by being a better basrunner, sure... But if you want to use analytics, you can't cherry pick.. and there, Ripken absolutely embarrasses him defensively. Like, by a laughable amount.. and it's shortstop we are talking about here, a very important defensive position.
Jeter is Yount great.. Ripken is all time great. And statistics are physically proof
Eye test?? Ripken didn't pass an eye test? Good lord.. it's crazy bias that some Yankee fans have.. not all.. some

[KDClemson_PSN]

@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

What's honestly sad is you ignored everything I said with actual stats. I said multiple times, Jeter is great. He's a top 10-12 all time SS... He is not Cal Ripken, that's it.. if you want to compare him to the some of the greatest, he will come up short. He's the next tier.
You can bring up WS rings (a team effort), and his better oWAR propped up by being a better basrunner, sure... But if you want to use analytics, you can't cherry pick.. and there, Ripken absolutely embarrasses him defensively. Like, by a laughable about.. and it's shortstop we are talking about here, a very important defensive position.
Jeter is Yount great.. Ripken is all time great. And statistics are physically proof
Eye test?? Ripken didn't pass an eye test? Good lord.. it's crazy bias that some Yankee fans have.. not all.. some

He’s not top 10-12, that’s your issue. Nobody thinks that. He’s clearly top 5. You make it sound like Cal Ripken is somehow out of his league when they’re basically the same tier of great. Yount never won a WS, you can argue that a team wins a WS, not a player and you’re absolutely right, but the Yankees don’t win all five of those without Jeter... and all those great championship teams had a captain. You’re also just ignoring postseason stats as a whole. Jeter is a top 4 SS ever, behind Honus and A-Rod, and on the same level as Cal.

I don’t know if you’ll ever get this through your head, but Baseball is played on a field, not a calculator.

[Nanthrax_1_PSN]

@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

What's honestly sad is you ignored everything I said with actual stats. I said multiple times, Jeter is great. He's a top 10-12 all time SS... He is not Cal Ripken, that's it.. if you want to compare him to the some of the greatest, he will come up short. He's the next tier.
You can bring up WS rings (a team effort), and his better oWAR propped up by being a better basrunner, sure... But if you want to use analytics, you can't cherry pick.. and there, Ripken absolutely embarrasses him defensively. Like, by a laughable about.. and it's shortstop we are talking about here, a very important defensive position.
Jeter is Yount great.. Ripken is all time great. And statistics are physically proof
Eye test?? Ripken didn't pass an eye test? Good lord.. it's crazy bias that some Yankee fans have.. not all.. some

He’s not top 10-12, that’s your issue. Nobody thinks that. You make it sound like Cal Ripken is somehow out of his league when they’re basically the same tier of great. Yount never won a WS, you can argue that a team wins a WS, not a player and you’re absolutely right, but the Yankees don’t win all five of those without Jeter... and all those great championship teams had a captain. You’re also just ignoring postseason stats as a whole. Jeter is a top 4 SS ever, behind Honus and A-Rod, and on the same level as Cal.

I don’t know if you’ll ever get this through your head, but Baseball is played on a field, not a calculator.

Postseason stats are accumulated by getting the opportunity to do so. Where Jeter is extremely lucky to have been a Yankee during that time period.
His .820 OPS isn't exactly over the top either. So settle down.

10-12 was pushing it. I'll say 8-10. My bad.. JAWS, Bbref, etc as well in SS leader boards agree..
And Yount won MVPs.. 2 of them... we ignoring those?

You are simply not in the same level as someone when you're over 20 WAR behind the guy.
WAR can be subjective, of course... But 20? There is no doubt with that much.. and it's because defense is a thing.. which you clearly ignore.

[KDClemson_PSN]

@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

What's honestly sad is you ignored everything I said with actual stats. I said multiple times, Jeter is great. He's a top 10-12 all time SS... He is not Cal Ripken, that's it.. if you want to compare him to the some of the greatest, he will come up short. He's the next tier.
You can bring up WS rings (a team effort), and his better oWAR propped up by being a better basrunner, sure... But if you want to use analytics, you can't cherry pick.. and there, Ripken absolutely embarrasses him defensively. Like, by a laughable about.. and it's shortstop we are talking about here, a very important defensive position.
Jeter is Yount great.. Ripken is all time great. And statistics are physically proof
Eye test?? Ripken didn't pass an eye test? Good lord.. it's crazy bias that some Yankee fans have.. not all.. some

He’s not top 10-12, that’s your issue. Nobody thinks that. You make it sound like Cal Ripken is somehow out of his league when they’re basically the same tier of great. Yount never won a WS, you can argue that a team wins a WS, not a player and you’re absolutely right, but the Yankees don’t win all five of those without Jeter... and all those great championship teams had a captain. You’re also just ignoring postseason stats as a whole. Jeter is a top 4 SS ever, behind Honus and A-Rod, and on the same level as Cal.

I don’t know if you’ll ever get this through your head, but Baseball is played on a field, not a calculator.

Postseason stats are accumulated by getting the opportunity to do so. Where Jeter is extremely lucky to have been a Yankee during that time period.
His .820 OPS isn't exactly over the top either. So settle down.

10-12 was pushing it. I'll say 8-10. My bad.. JAWS, Bbref, etc as well in SS leader boards agree..
And Yount won MVPs.. 2 of them... we ignoring those?

You are simply not in the same level as someone when you're over 20 WAR behind the guy.
WAR can be subjective, of course... But 20? There is no doubt with that much.. and it's because defense is a thing.. which you clearly ignore.

You’ve already established that you don’t count awards, we ignoring Jeter’s gold gloves, or do you only use awards when they fit your agenda.

Again, baseball is played on a field, not a calculator, you can’t punish Jeter for being great in the postseason just because other guys didn’t get the chance as frequently.

Truly a ridiculous level of mental gymnastics you’re going to here, when everyone who watched baseball the past two decades knows what Jeter was

[Nanthrax_1_PSN]

@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

What's honestly sad is you ignored everything I said with actual stats. I said multiple times, Jeter is great. He's a top 10-12 all time SS... He is not Cal Ripken, that's it.. if you want to compare him to the some of the greatest, he will come up short. He's the next tier.
You can bring up WS rings (a team effort), and his better oWAR propped up by being a better basrunner, sure... But if you want to use analytics, you can't cherry pick.. and there, Ripken absolutely embarrasses him defensively. Like, by a laughable about.. and it's shortstop we are talking about here, a very important defensive position.
Jeter is Yount great.. Ripken is all time great. And statistics are physically proof
Eye test?? Ripken didn't pass an eye test? Good lord.. it's crazy bias that some Yankee fans have.. not all.. some

He’s not top 10-12, that’s your issue. Nobody thinks that. He’s clearly top 5. You make it sound like Cal Ripken is somehow out of his league when they’re basically the same tier of great. Yount never won a WS, you can argue that a team wins a WS, not a player and you’re absolutely right, but the Yankees don’t win all five of those without Jeter... and all those great championship teams had a captain. You’re also just ignoring postseason stats as a whole. Jeter is a top 4 SS ever, behind Honus and A-Rod, and on the same level as Cal.

I don’t know if you’ll ever get this through your head, but Baseball is played on a field, not a calculator.

Baseball is played on a field?? Wow.. mind blown..
Do they keep score?

[KDClemson_PSN]

@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

What's honestly sad is you ignored everything I said with actual stats. I said multiple times, Jeter is great. He's a top 10-12 all time SS... He is not Cal Ripken, that's it.. if you want to compare him to the some of the greatest, he will come up short. He's the next tier.
You can bring up WS rings (a team effort), and his better oWAR propped up by being a better basrunner, sure... But if you want to use analytics, you can't cherry pick.. and there, Ripken absolutely embarrasses him defensively. Like, by a laughable about.. and it's shortstop we are talking about here, a very important defensive position.
Jeter is Yount great.. Ripken is all time great. And statistics are physically proof
Eye test?? Ripken didn't pass an eye test? Good lord.. it's crazy bias that some Yankee fans have.. not all.. some

He’s not top 10-12, that’s your issue. Nobody thinks that. He’s clearly top 5. You make it sound like Cal Ripken is somehow out of his league when they’re basically the same tier of great. Yount never won a WS, you can argue that a team wins a WS, not a player and you’re absolutely right, but the Yankees don’t win all five of those without Jeter... and all those great championship teams had a captain. You’re also just ignoring postseason stats as a whole. Jeter is a top 4 SS ever, behind Honus and A-Rod, and on the same level as Cal.

I don’t know if you’ll ever get this through your head, but Baseball is played on a field, not a calculator.

Baseball is played on a field?? Wow.. mind blown..
Do they keep score?

Advanced Defensive metrics were also considered poor indication stats with less reliability throughout the careers of both Cal and Jeter (and still are to an extent).

And if we remove dWAR Jeter wins... and spoiler alert, it’s not close.

[KDClemson_PSN]

Imagine disliking a player so much that you have to put loads of effort and mental gymnastics into discrediting an all-time great and the thought of seeing mock card art for them in a video game drives you insane. That’s really sad lol

[Nanthrax_1_PSN]

@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

What's honestly sad is you ignored everything I said with actual stats. I said multiple times, Jeter is great. He's a top 10-12 all time SS... He is not Cal Ripken, that's it.. if you want to compare him to the some of the greatest, he will come up short. He's the next tier.
You can bring up WS rings (a team effort), and his better oWAR propped up by being a better basrunner, sure... But if you want to use analytics, you can't cherry pick.. and there, Ripken absolutely embarrasses him defensively. Like, by a laughable about.. and it's shortstop we are talking about here, a very important defensive position.
Jeter is Yount great.. Ripken is all time great. And statistics are physically proof
Eye test?? Ripken didn't pass an eye test? Good lord.. it's crazy bias that some Yankee fans have.. not all.. some

He’s not top 10-12, that’s your issue. Nobody thinks that. You make it sound like Cal Ripken is somehow out of his league when they’re basically the same tier of great. Yount never won a WS, you can argue that a team wins a WS, not a player and you’re absolutely right, but the Yankees don’t win all five of those without Jeter... and all those great championship teams had a captain. You’re also just ignoring postseason stats as a whole. Jeter is a top 4 SS ever, behind Honus and A-Rod, and on the same level as Cal.

I don’t know if you’ll ever get this through your head, but Baseball is played on a field, not a calculator.

Postseason stats are accumulated by getting the opportunity to do so. Where Jeter is extremely lucky to have been a Yankee during that time period.
His .820 OPS isn't exactly over the top either. So settle down.

10-12 was pushing it. I'll say 8-10. My bad.. JAWS, Bbref, etc as well in SS leader boards agree..
And Yount won MVPs.. 2 of them... we ignoring those?

You are simply not in the same level as someone when you're over 20 WAR behind the guy.
WAR can be subjective, of course... But 20? There is no doubt with that much.. and it's because defense is a thing.. which you clearly ignore.

You’ve already established that you don’t count awards, we ignoring Jeter’s gold gloves, or do you only use awards when they fit your agenda.

Again, baseball is played on a field, not a calculator, you can’t punish Jeter for being great in the postseason just because other guys didn’t get the chance as frequently.

Truly a ridiculous level of mental gymnastics you’re going to here, when everyone who watched baseball the past two decades knows what Jeter was

I didn't ignore any award.. gold gloves are what started this whole thing but you ignore anything negative about your deity..
I'll say it one more time. Jeter was a great player. I watched his entire career.. He was bad defensively.. And that's why he isn't on Cal's level.
The mental gymnastics is ignoring that part of his game and repeating the good parts which we agree on.

[Nanthrax_1_PSN]

@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

Imagine disliking a player so much that you have to put loads of effort and mental gymnastics into discrediting an all-time great and the thought of seeing mock card art for them in a video game drives you insane. That’s really sad lol

I like Jeter lol.. you're mixing me in with the other poster I think

[KDClemson_PSN]

@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

What's honestly sad is you ignored everything I said with actual stats. I said multiple times, Jeter is great. He's a top 10-12 all time SS... He is not Cal Ripken, that's it.. if you want to compare him to the some of the greatest, he will come up short. He's the next tier.
You can bring up WS rings (a team effort), and his better oWAR propped up by being a better basrunner, sure... But if you want to use analytics, you can't cherry pick.. and there, Ripken absolutely embarrasses him defensively. Like, by a laughable about.. and it's shortstop we are talking about here, a very important defensive position.
Jeter is Yount great.. Ripken is all time great. And statistics are physically proof
Eye test?? Ripken didn't pass an eye test? Good lord.. it's crazy bias that some Yankee fans have.. not all.. some

He’s not top 10-12, that’s your issue. Nobody thinks that. You make it sound like Cal Ripken is somehow out of his league when they’re basically the same tier of great. Yount never won a WS, you can argue that a team wins a WS, not a player and you’re absolutely right, but the Yankees don’t win all five of those without Jeter... and all those great championship teams had a captain. You’re also just ignoring postseason stats as a whole. Jeter is a top 4 SS ever, behind Honus and A-Rod, and on the same level as Cal.

I don’t know if you’ll ever get this through your head, but Baseball is played on a field, not a calculator.

Postseason stats are accumulated by getting the opportunity to do so. Where Jeter is extremely lucky to have been a Yankee during that time period.
His .820 OPS isn't exactly over the top either. So settle down.

10-12 was pushing it. I'll say 8-10. My bad.. JAWS, Bbref, etc as well in SS leader boards agree..
And Yount won MVPs.. 2 of them... we ignoring those?

You are simply not in the same level as someone when you're over 20 WAR behind the guy.
WAR can be subjective, of course... But 20? There is no doubt with that much.. and it's because defense is a thing.. which you clearly ignore.

You’ve already established that you don’t count awards, we ignoring Jeter’s gold gloves, or do you only use awards when they fit your agenda.

Again, baseball is played on a field, not a calculator, you can’t punish Jeter for being great in the postseason just because other guys didn’t get the chance as frequently.

Truly a ridiculous level of mental gymnastics you’re going to here, when everyone who watched baseball the past two decades knows what Jeter was

I didn't ignore any award.. gold gloves are what started this whole thing but you ignore anything negative about your deity..
I'll say it one more time. Jeter was a great player. I watched his entire career.. He was bad defensively.. And that's why he isn't on Cal's level.
The mental gymnastics is ignoring that part of his game and repeating the good parts which we agree on.

And I would counter argue by saying (1) defensive stats are shaky (2) WAR is cumulative and Cal played more games (3) WAR doesn’t take into account postseason success, the whole point of the game (4) you can’t measure the impact of leadership or mentorship that Jeter had to championship teams (5) postseason success shouldn’t be negated just because others didn’t have those opportunities, Jeter always rose to the occasion.

Nobody legitimately believes Jeter was the worst defender ever, it’s a flawed stat showing flaws. Below average? Sure but when you count the points mentioned above, any skill gap between Cal and Jeter is negligible

[Nanthrax_1_PSN]

@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

What's honestly sad is you ignored everything I said with actual stats. I said multiple times, Jeter is great. He's a top 10-12 all time SS... He is not Cal Ripken, that's it.. if you want to compare him to the some of the greatest, he will come up short. He's the next tier.
You can bring up WS rings (a team effort), and his better oWAR propped up by being a better basrunner, sure... But if you want to use analytics, you can't cherry pick.. and there, Ripken absolutely embarrasses him defensively. Like, by a laughable about.. and it's shortstop we are talking about here, a very important defensive position.
Jeter is Yount great.. Ripken is all time great. And statistics are physically proof
Eye test?? Ripken didn't pass an eye test? Good lord.. it's crazy bias that some Yankee fans have.. not all.. some

He’s not top 10-12, that’s your issue. Nobody thinks that. You make it sound like Cal Ripken is somehow out of his league when they’re basically the same tier of great. Yount never won a WS, you can argue that a team wins a WS, not a player and you’re absolutely right, but the Yankees don’t win all five of those without Jeter... and all those great championship teams had a captain. You’re also just ignoring postseason stats as a whole. Jeter is a top 4 SS ever, behind Honus and A-Rod, and on the same level as Cal.

I don’t know if you’ll ever get this through your head, but Baseball is played on a field, not a calculator.

Postseason stats are accumulated by getting the opportunity to do so. Where Jeter is extremely lucky to have been a Yankee during that time period.
His .820 OPS isn't exactly over the top either. So settle down.

10-12 was pushing it. I'll say 8-10. My bad.. JAWS, Bbref, etc as well in SS leader boards agree..
And Yount won MVPs.. 2 of them... we ignoring those?

You are simply not in the same level as someone when you're over 20 WAR behind the guy.
WAR can be subjective, of course... But 20? There is no doubt with that much.. and it's because defense is a thing.. which you clearly ignore.

You’ve already established that you don’t count awards, we ignoring Jeter’s gold gloves, or do you only use awards when they fit your agenda.

Again, baseball is played on a field, not a calculator, you can’t punish Jeter for being great in the postseason just because other guys didn’t get the chance as frequently.

Truly a ridiculous level of mental gymnastics you’re going to here, when everyone who watched baseball the past two decades knows what Jeter was

I didn't ignore any award.. gold gloves are what started this whole thing but you ignore anything negative about your deity..
I'll say it one more time. Jeter was a great player. I watched his entire career.. He was bad defensively.. And that's why he isn't on Cal's level.
The mental gymnastics is ignoring that part of his game and repeating the good parts which we agree on.

And I would counter argue by saying (1) defensive stats are shaky (2) WAR is cumulative and Cal played more games (3) WAR doesn’t take into account postseason success, the whole point of the game (4) you can’t measure the impact of leadership or mentorship that Jeter had to championship teams (5) postseason success shouldn’t be negated just because others didn’t have those opportunities, Jeter always rose to the occasion.

Nobody legitimately believes Jeter was the worst defender ever, it’s a flawed stat showing flaws. Below average? Sure but when you count the points mentioned above, any skill gap between Cal and Jeter is negligible

1. If it were close, ya.. negligible.. but it's not even in the same vicinity.. so no. There is no doubt here that Cal was wayy better than Derek defensively. In fact, he was one of the best ever.

2. Cal playing that many games is a bad thing? How should that be considered a point against him? He is ironman after all. A feat that we will never see again in baseball history. That should be a huge point for him in any argument. The most reliable player in history. You want to talk about intangibles? Start there

By the way. This is a fun debate. It isn't meant to be taken as an attack on your hero, or to be taken defensively which I obviously struck a nerve. It's a baseball debate. That's it. And once again, I don't hate Jeter at all. I hate the Yankees!! But always respected Jeter

[KDClemson_PSN]

@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

What's honestly sad is you ignored everything I said with actual stats. I said multiple times, Jeter is great. He's a top 10-12 all time SS... He is not Cal Ripken, that's it.. if you want to compare him to the some of the greatest, he will come up short. He's the next tier.
You can bring up WS rings (a team effort), and his better oWAR propped up by being a better basrunner, sure... But if you want to use analytics, you can't cherry pick.. and there, Ripken absolutely embarrasses him defensively. Like, by a laughable about.. and it's shortstop we are talking about here, a very important defensive position.
Jeter is Yount great.. Ripken is all time great. And statistics are physically proof
Eye test?? Ripken didn't pass an eye test? Good lord.. it's crazy bias that some Yankee fans have.. not all.. some

He’s not top 10-12, that’s your issue. Nobody thinks that. You make it sound like Cal Ripken is somehow out of his league when they’re basically the same tier of great. Yount never won a WS, you can argue that a team wins a WS, not a player and you’re absolutely right, but the Yankees don’t win all five of those without Jeter... and all those great championship teams had a captain. You’re also just ignoring postseason stats as a whole. Jeter is a top 4 SS ever, behind Honus and A-Rod, and on the same level as Cal.

I don’t know if you’ll ever get this through your head, but Baseball is played on a field, not a calculator.

Postseason stats are accumulated by getting the opportunity to do so. Where Jeter is extremely lucky to have been a Yankee during that time period.
His .820 OPS isn't exactly over the top either. So settle down.

10-12 was pushing it. I'll say 8-10. My bad.. JAWS, Bbref, etc as well in SS leader boards agree..
And Yount won MVPs.. 2 of them... we ignoring those?

You are simply not in the same level as someone when you're over 20 WAR behind the guy.
WAR can be subjective, of course... But 20? There is no doubt with that much.. and it's because defense is a thing.. which you clearly ignore.

You’ve already established that you don’t count awards, we ignoring Jeter’s gold gloves, or do you only use awards when they fit your agenda.

Again, baseball is played on a field, not a calculator, you can’t punish Jeter for being great in the postseason just because other guys didn’t get the chance as frequently.

Truly a ridiculous level of mental gymnastics you’re going to here, when everyone who watched baseball the past two decades knows what Jeter was

I didn't ignore any award.. gold gloves are what started this whole thing but you ignore anything negative about your deity..
I'll say it one more time. Jeter was a great player. I watched his entire career.. He was bad defensively.. And that's why he isn't on Cal's level.
The mental gymnastics is ignoring that part of his game and repeating the good parts which we agree on.

And I would counter argue by saying (1) defensive stats are shaky (2) WAR is cumulative and Cal played more games (3) WAR doesn’t take into account postseason success, the whole point of the game (4) you can’t measure the impact of leadership or mentorship that Jeter had to championship teams (5) postseason success shouldn’t be negated just because others didn’t have those opportunities, Jeter always rose to the occasion.

Nobody legitimately believes Jeter was the worst defender ever, it’s a flawed stat showing flaws. Below average? Sure but when you count the points mentioned above, any skill gap between Cal and Jeter is negligible

1. If it were close, ya.. negligible.. but it's not even in the same vicinity.. so no. There is no doubt here that Cal was wayy better than Derek defensively. In fact, he was one of the best ever.

2. Cal playing that many games is a bad thing? How should that be considered a point against him? He is ironman after all. A feat that we will never see again in baseball history. That should be a huge point for him in any argument. The most reliable player in history. You want to talk about intangibles? Start there

By the way. This is a fun debate. It isn't meant to be taken as an attack on your hero, or to be taken defensively which I obviously struck a nerve. It's a baseball debate. That's it. And once again, I don't hate Jeter at all. I hate the Yankees!! But always respected Jeter

I don’t have bb-ref open rn but what’s the difference, 20 WAR? If postseason success is the ultimate goal, I think Jeters impact at that is worth what the difference is.

Not saying postseason success is all due to one player, but Jeter had memorable plays at actively helped win WS titles. He was a few non-great plays away from the Yankees only having 24 or 25 rings rn. Stuff like that is hard to quantify since WAR isn’t tracked in the playoffs and it just can’t quantify some things.

[Nanthrax_1_PSN]

@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

What's honestly sad is you ignored everything I said with actual stats. I said multiple times, Jeter is great. He's a top 10-12 all time SS... He is not Cal Ripken, that's it.. if you want to compare him to the some of the greatest, he will come up short. He's the next tier.
You can bring up WS rings (a team effort), and his better oWAR propped up by being a better basrunner, sure... But if you want to use analytics, you can't cherry pick.. and there, Ripken absolutely embarrasses him defensively. Like, by a laughable about.. and it's shortstop we are talking about here, a very important defensive position.
Jeter is Yount great.. Ripken is all time great. And statistics are physically proof
Eye test?? Ripken didn't pass an eye test? Good lord.. it's crazy bias that some Yankee fans have.. not all.. some

He’s not top 10-12, that’s your issue. Nobody thinks that. You make it sound like Cal Ripken is somehow out of his league when they’re basically the same tier of great. Yount never won a WS, you can argue that a team wins a WS, not a player and you’re absolutely right, but the Yankees don’t win all five of those without Jeter... and all those great championship teams had a captain. You’re also just ignoring postseason stats as a whole. Jeter is a top 4 SS ever, behind Honus and A-Rod, and on the same level as Cal.

I don’t know if you’ll ever get this through your head, but Baseball is played on a field, not a calculator.

Postseason stats are accumulated by getting the opportunity to do so. Where Jeter is extremely lucky to have been a Yankee during that time period.
His .820 OPS isn't exactly over the top either. So settle down.

10-12 was pushing it. I'll say 8-10. My bad.. JAWS, Bbref, etc as well in SS leader boards agree..
And Yount won MVPs.. 2 of them... we ignoring those?

You are simply not in the same level as someone when you're over 20 WAR behind the guy.
WAR can be subjective, of course... But 20? There is no doubt with that much.. and it's because defense is a thing.. which you clearly ignore.

You’ve already established that you don’t count awards, we ignoring Jeter’s gold gloves, or do you only use awards when they fit your agenda.

Again, baseball is played on a field, not a calculator, you can’t punish Jeter for being great in the postseason just because other guys didn’t get the chance as frequently.

Truly a ridiculous level of mental gymnastics you’re going to here, when everyone who watched baseball the past two decades knows what Jeter was

I didn't ignore any award.. gold gloves are what started this whole thing but you ignore anything negative about your deity..
I'll say it one more time. Jeter was a great player. I watched his entire career.. He was bad defensively.. And that's why he isn't on Cal's level.
The mental gymnastics is ignoring that part of his game and repeating the good parts which we agree on.

And I would counter argue by saying (1) defensive stats are shaky (2) WAR is cumulative and Cal played more games (3) WAR doesn’t take into account postseason success, the whole point of the game (4) you can’t measure the impact of leadership or mentorship that Jeter had to championship teams (5) postseason success shouldn’t be negated just because others didn’t have those opportunities, Jeter always rose to the occasion.

Nobody legitimately believes Jeter was the worst defender ever, it’s a flawed stat showing flaws. Below average? Sure but when you count the points mentioned above, any skill gap between Cal and Jeter is negligible

1. If it were close, ya.. negligible.. but it's not even in the same vicinity.. so no. There is no doubt here that Cal was wayy better than Derek defensively. In fact, he was one of the best ever.

2. Cal playing that many games is a bad thing? How should that be considered a point against him? He is ironman after all. A feat that we will never see again in baseball history. That should be a huge point for him in any argument. The most reliable player in history. You want to talk about intangibles? Start there

By the way. This is a fun debate. It isn't meant to be taken as an attack on your hero, or to be taken defensively which I obviously struck a nerve. It's a baseball debate. That's it. And once again, I don't hate Jeter at all. I hate the Yankees!! But always respected Jeter

I don’t have bb-ref open rn but what’s the difference, 20 WAR? If postseason success is the ultimate goal, I think Jeters impact at that is worth what the difference is.

Not saying postseason success is all due to one player, but Jeter had memorable plays at actively helped win WS titles. He was a few non-great plays away from the Yankees only having 24 or 25 rings rn. Stuff like that is hard to quantify since WAR isn’t tracked in the playoffs and it just can’t quantify some things.

How is that a fair debate when one player got to spend 20 years on a financial juggernaut and the other played on a lousy team? (for most of it)

The debate is who is the better player... And from what we can measure, I just don't see the debate. 20 WAR is 20 WAR. (Joe Carter's career lol)...

And here is where I think seals it.
Jeter never led the league in WAR... Not even close actually. He wasn't that MVP type guy...
Cal won 2, and led the league in WAR 3 times... He was the peak of the sport where Jeter wasn't.
And he played every game.. it probably even affected his numbers playing hurt too.. But there is something to be said for doing so.. imagine he had done that as a Yankee?? He'd be Jeter and Gehrig rolled into one and we wouldn't be having this debate at all

[KDClemson_PSN]

@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

What's honestly sad is you ignored everything I said with actual stats. I said multiple times, Jeter is great. He's a top 10-12 all time SS... He is not Cal Ripken, that's it.. if you want to compare him to the some of the greatest, he will come up short. He's the next tier.
You can bring up WS rings (a team effort), and his better oWAR propped up by being a better basrunner, sure... But if you want to use analytics, you can't cherry pick.. and there, Ripken absolutely embarrasses him defensively. Like, by a laughable about.. and it's shortstop we are talking about here, a very important defensive position.
Jeter is Yount great.. Ripken is all time great. And statistics are physically proof
Eye test?? Ripken didn't pass an eye test? Good lord.. it's crazy bias that some Yankee fans have.. not all.. some

He’s not top 10-12, that’s your issue. Nobody thinks that. You make it sound like Cal Ripken is somehow out of his league when they’re basically the same tier of great. Yount never won a WS, you can argue that a team wins a WS, not a player and you’re absolutely right, but the Yankees don’t win all five of those without Jeter... and all those great championship teams had a captain. You’re also just ignoring postseason stats as a whole. Jeter is a top 4 SS ever, behind Honus and A-Rod, and on the same level as Cal.

I don’t know if you’ll ever get this through your head, but Baseball is played on a field, not a calculator.

Postseason stats are accumulated by getting the opportunity to do so. Where Jeter is extremely lucky to have been a Yankee during that time period.
His .820 OPS isn't exactly over the top either. So settle down.

10-12 was pushing it. I'll say 8-10. My bad.. JAWS, Bbref, etc as well in SS leader boards agree..
And Yount won MVPs.. 2 of them... we ignoring those?

You are simply not in the same level as someone when you're over 20 WAR behind the guy.
WAR can be subjective, of course... But 20? There is no doubt with that much.. and it's because defense is a thing.. which you clearly ignore.

You’ve already established that you don’t count awards, we ignoring Jeter’s gold gloves, or do you only use awards when they fit your agenda.

Again, baseball is played on a field, not a calculator, you can’t punish Jeter for being great in the postseason just because other guys didn’t get the chance as frequently.

Truly a ridiculous level of mental gymnastics you’re going to here, when everyone who watched baseball the past two decades knows what Jeter was

I didn't ignore any award.. gold gloves are what started this whole thing but you ignore anything negative about your deity..
I'll say it one more time. Jeter was a great player. I watched his entire career.. He was bad defensively.. And that's why he isn't on Cal's level.
The mental gymnastics is ignoring that part of his game and repeating the good parts which we agree on.

And I would counter argue by saying (1) defensive stats are shaky (2) WAR is cumulative and Cal played more games (3) WAR doesn’t take into account postseason success, the whole point of the game (4) you can’t measure the impact of leadership or mentorship that Jeter had to championship teams (5) postseason success shouldn’t be negated just because others didn’t have those opportunities, Jeter always rose to the occasion.

Nobody legitimately believes Jeter was the worst defender ever, it’s a flawed stat showing flaws. Below average? Sure but when you count the points mentioned above, any skill gap between Cal and Jeter is negligible

1. If it were close, ya.. negligible.. but it's not even in the same vicinity.. so no. There is no doubt here that Cal was wayy better than Derek defensively. In fact, he was one of the best ever.

2. Cal playing that many games is a bad thing? How should that be considered a point against him? He is ironman after all. A feat that we will never see again in baseball history. That should be a huge point for him in any argument. The most reliable player in history. You want to talk about intangibles? Start there

By the way. This is a fun debate. It isn't meant to be taken as an attack on your hero, or to be taken defensively which I obviously struck a nerve. It's a baseball debate. That's it. And once again, I don't hate Jeter at all. I hate the Yankees!! But always respected Jeter

I don’t have bb-ref open rn but what’s the difference, 20 WAR? If postseason success is the ultimate goal, I think Jeters impact at that is worth what the difference is.

Not saying postseason success is all due to one player, but Jeter had memorable plays at actively helped win WS titles. He was a few non-great plays away from the Yankees only having 24 or 25 rings rn. Stuff like that is hard to quantify since WAR isn’t tracked in the playoffs and it just can’t quantify some things.

How is that a fair debate when one player got to spend 20 years on a financial juggernaut and the other played on a lousy team? (for most of it)

The debate is who is the better player... And from what we can measure, I just don't see the debate. 20 WAR is 20 WAR. (Joe Carter's career lol)...

And here is where I think seals it.
Jeter never led the league in WAR... Not even close actually. He wasn't that MVP type guy...
Cal won 2, and led the league in WAR 3 times... He was the peak of the sport where Jeter wasn't.
And he played every game.. it probably even affected his numbers playing hurt too.. But there is something to be said for doing so.. imagine he had done that as a Yankee?? He'd be Jeter and Gehrig rolled into one and we wouldn't be having this debate at all

It’s not Jeter’s fault small market teams are cheap lol, can’t punish him for being great when it mattered. Also leading the league in WAR doesn’t matter if your team doesn’t win titles. In terms of pure value towards winning it all, a single play like “The Flip” or a big WS home run can be worth more than full regular season games of WAR if it all goes into a black hole and doesn’t become any postseason success

[King Cals_XBL]

@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

Imagine disliking a player so much that you have to put loads of effort and mental gymnastics into discrediting an all-time great and the thought of seeing mock card art for them in a video game drives you insane. That’s really sad lol

Lol facts. Nobody is saying Ripken sucks. Jeter is just in the conversation with him. That card art hit a soft spot I guess. Still a sick design tho

[KDClemson_PSN]

@king-cals_xbl said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:

Imagine disliking a player so much that you have to put loads of effort and mental gymnastics into discrediting an all-time great and the thought of seeing mock card art for them in a video game drives you insane. That’s really sad lol

Lol facts. Nobody is saying Ripken sucks. Jeter is just in the conversation with him. That card art hit a soft spot I guess. Still a sick design tho

Thanks!