Derek Jeter Concept Art
-
@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@dewrock_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@dewrock_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@dewrock_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
Offensively, he was everything you could ask for from a middle infielder, and was an absolute nightmare to cheer for the team against him....
Defensively? He was extremely overrated and justified in that everyone has come around to believe that. His metrics are very bad, and had virtually no range. The fact he won gold gloves at all shows how broken that whole thing is, which is well known mostly because of himThe very fact that he won more gold gloves than Cal Ripken Jr still annoys me. Jeter has no business being in the same room as a gold glove award.
100%!
Ripken is better than Jeter in every way but you wouldn't know it from the hype Jeter created..The famous plays they gush over is what gets me. Flying into the stands? He didn’t need to. He could have slid after making the catch. The flip to the catcher in the playoffs? He was completely out of position and cutoff a throw that was already going to the catcher. Oh and Giambi was safe.
if you actually think (a) the throw would've gotten there anyways and (b) giambi was safe... lol
We can quibble over the throw but Giambi was safe. If there was review then, it would have been overturned.
no it wouldn't have lol. he swipes the back leg before he's on the plate and there certainly isn't enough evidence to overturn anything.
the glove is touching him by this point and he appears above but not touching the plate. at the very least it couldn't be overturned.
Stay salty O's fan, 38 years since the last time you won the WS
Picking on an O's fan is like tripping a blind person.. not a good look....
But ya.. Jeter is great man.. like, Robin Yount, Ernie Banks great.. He's not Cal.. and that's the point.. and those 5 rings weren't because of Jeter alone.. this isn't basketball.. they were because the Yankees were running payrolls double every other team. They had hall of famers coming off their bench..
Offensively, he was a better hitter than Cal and more clutch.
They have roughly the same OPS+ for their career..
Ripken obviously way more power, with Cal's 431 to Jeter's 260...
Cal actually has a higher OPS with RISP than Jeter.
.824 to .810...Of course Cal didn't get many postseason at bats besides winning his 1 world series in 1983, but he hit .866 OPS when he was there.
Jeter .838 OPS. Getting every chance because he's on the Yankees...
So no.. again, your assumptions that Jeter is more clutch than a legend like Cal is wrong.. hype machine strikes again.
20 more oWAR to Jeter lol
Ohh.... You want to get into WAR?
Ripken 92.5 fWAR
Jeter 73 fWARConsidering your statement, which I assume you're going by bbref, it's actually about 18 oWAR.. that goes to show how enormously more valuable Ripken was to Jeter defensively. Jeter ends up just barely top 10 SS all time.. Ripken top 3 with nobody even close to those 3, one of them being ARod which I assume you'll have an opinion about lol.. the other played over 100 years ago... Honus
5 WS vs. 1 WS...
Baseball.... Not basketball.. Jeter didn't win those.. a 200M payroll team did. Replace Jeter with Cal and they probably win 7 WS. He wasn't even the top player on 3 of those..
With their roster, they should have won more than 5... Let's be honest..
Bottom line is it’s an orioles fan arguing simply because they haven’t had a player as good as Jeter for over 2 decades. That’s a fact. Only dude with more WAR in that time is Mussina, who did half of it with the Yankees
-
@nanos_mcgregor said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
This is why no one likes yankee fans, if you have a different opinion you’re wrong and when you show the facts you’re still wrong. Thank god they don’t win the big one anymore and choke every year otherwise we’d never hear the end of it.
He didn’t show facts though, he equally ignored my arguments. The 20 more oWAR despite less games, showing Jeter was a better hitter. Simply not counting rings for anything, when they certainly have some accolade, and it takes a large amount of mental gymnastics to argue that Jeter was anything but one of the greatest postseason players ever.
-
What ever happened to the eye test and not just statistics. Jeter is arguably one of the best SS to play the game along with Ripken arod banks and Wagner. To say jeter is overrated bc of his hype is ridiculous bc he was an icon for two decades. Re2pect the guy and his accomplishments. Statistics is just a bunch of numbers. Winning is the only thing that matters and jeter was the core for the Yankees titles. Were there other players that contributed? Of course. But right there always was jeter leading the way. Give the man credit and just admit he’s a biracial angel.
-
Don't get me involved in this. People who try their hardest to convince people that Jeter was some average scrub, are the most pathetic, clueless fans in Baseball. To think otherwise, means you are Wrong. That's all that there is to it
-
@decimation92_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
Don't get me involved in this. People who try their hardest to convince people that Jeter was some average scrub, are the most pathetic, clueless fans in Baseball. To think otherwise, means you are Wrong. That's all that there is to it
100%, it’s honestly sad.
-
He’s not the greatest shortstop of all time. I’d put A Rod over him and he played half his career there.
-
What's honestly sad is you ignored everything I said with actual stats. I said multiple times, Jeter is great. He's a top 8-10 all time SS. I'd even put him ahead of the big group he's clumped up with because of his postseason play (despite being extremely lucky to get those opportunities)... He is not Cal Ripken, that's it.. if you want to compare him to the some of the greatest, he will come up short. He's the next tier.
You can bring up WS rings (a team effort), and his better oWAR propped up by being a better basrunner, sure... But if you want to use analytics, you can't cherry pick.. and there, Ripken absolutely embarrasses him defensively. Like, by a laughable amount.. and it's shortstop we are talking about here, a very important defensive position.
Jeter is Yount great.. Ripken is all time great. And statistics are physically proof
Eye test?? Ripken didn't pass an eye test? Good lord.. it's crazy bias that some Yankee fans have.. not all.. some -
@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
What's honestly sad is you ignored everything I said with actual stats. I said multiple times, Jeter is great. He's a top 10-12 all time SS... He is not Cal Ripken, that's it.. if you want to compare him to the some of the greatest, he will come up short. He's the next tier.
You can bring up WS rings (a team effort), and his better oWAR propped up by being a better basrunner, sure... But if you want to use analytics, you can't cherry pick.. and there, Ripken absolutely embarrasses him defensively. Like, by a laughable about.. and it's shortstop we are talking about here, a very important defensive position.
Jeter is Yount great.. Ripken is all time great. And statistics are physically proof
Eye test?? Ripken didn't pass an eye test? Good lord.. it's crazy bias that some Yankee fans have.. not all.. someHe’s not top 10-12, that’s your issue. Nobody thinks that. He’s clearly top 5. You make it sound like Cal Ripken is somehow out of his league when they’re basically the same tier of great. Yount never won a WS, you can argue that a team wins a WS, not a player and you’re absolutely right, but the Yankees don’t win all five of those without Jeter... and all those great championship teams had a captain. You’re also just ignoring postseason stats as a whole. Jeter is a top 4 SS ever, behind Honus and A-Rod, and on the same level as Cal.
I don’t know if you’ll ever get this through your head, but Baseball is played on a field, not a calculator.
-
@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
What's honestly sad is you ignored everything I said with actual stats. I said multiple times, Jeter is great. He's a top 10-12 all time SS... He is not Cal Ripken, that's it.. if you want to compare him to the some of the greatest, he will come up short. He's the next tier.
You can bring up WS rings (a team effort), and his better oWAR propped up by being a better basrunner, sure... But if you want to use analytics, you can't cherry pick.. and there, Ripken absolutely embarrasses him defensively. Like, by a laughable about.. and it's shortstop we are talking about here, a very important defensive position.
Jeter is Yount great.. Ripken is all time great. And statistics are physically proof
Eye test?? Ripken didn't pass an eye test? Good lord.. it's crazy bias that some Yankee fans have.. not all.. someHe’s not top 10-12, that’s your issue. Nobody thinks that. You make it sound like Cal Ripken is somehow out of his league when they’re basically the same tier of great. Yount never won a WS, you can argue that a team wins a WS, not a player and you’re absolutely right, but the Yankees don’t win all five of those without Jeter... and all those great championship teams had a captain. You’re also just ignoring postseason stats as a whole. Jeter is a top 4 SS ever, behind Honus and A-Rod, and on the same level as Cal.
I don’t know if you’ll ever get this through your head, but Baseball is played on a field, not a calculator.
Postseason stats are accumulated by getting the opportunity to do so. Where Jeter is extremely lucky to have been a Yankee during that time period.
His .820 OPS isn't exactly over the top either. So settle down.10-12 was pushing it. I'll say 8-10. My bad.. JAWS, Bbref, etc as well in SS leader boards agree..
And Yount won MVPs.. 2 of them... we ignoring those?You are simply not in the same level as someone when you're over 20 WAR behind the guy.
WAR can be subjective, of course... But 20? There is no doubt with that much.. and it's because defense is a thing.. which you clearly ignore. -
@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
What's honestly sad is you ignored everything I said with actual stats. I said multiple times, Jeter is great. He's a top 10-12 all time SS... He is not Cal Ripken, that's it.. if you want to compare him to the some of the greatest, he will come up short. He's the next tier.
You can bring up WS rings (a team effort), and his better oWAR propped up by being a better basrunner, sure... But if you want to use analytics, you can't cherry pick.. and there, Ripken absolutely embarrasses him defensively. Like, by a laughable about.. and it's shortstop we are talking about here, a very important defensive position.
Jeter is Yount great.. Ripken is all time great. And statistics are physically proof
Eye test?? Ripken didn't pass an eye test? Good lord.. it's crazy bias that some Yankee fans have.. not all.. someHe’s not top 10-12, that’s your issue. Nobody thinks that. You make it sound like Cal Ripken is somehow out of his league when they’re basically the same tier of great. Yount never won a WS, you can argue that a team wins a WS, not a player and you’re absolutely right, but the Yankees don’t win all five of those without Jeter... and all those great championship teams had a captain. You’re also just ignoring postseason stats as a whole. Jeter is a top 4 SS ever, behind Honus and A-Rod, and on the same level as Cal.
I don’t know if you’ll ever get this through your head, but Baseball is played on a field, not a calculator.
Postseason stats are accumulated by getting the opportunity to do so. Where Jeter is extremely lucky to have been a Yankee during that time period.
His .820 OPS isn't exactly over the top either. So settle down.10-12 was pushing it. I'll say 8-10. My bad.. JAWS, Bbref, etc as well in SS leader boards agree..
And Yount won MVPs.. 2 of them... we ignoring those?You are simply not in the same level as someone when you're over 20 WAR behind the guy.
WAR can be subjective, of course... But 20? There is no doubt with that much.. and it's because defense is a thing.. which you clearly ignore.You’ve already established that you don’t count awards, we ignoring Jeter’s gold gloves, or do you only use awards when they fit your agenda.
Again, baseball is played on a field, not a calculator, you can’t punish Jeter for being great in the postseason just because other guys didn’t get the chance as frequently.
Truly a ridiculous level of mental gymnastics you’re going to here, when everyone who watched baseball the past two decades knows what Jeter was
-
@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
What's honestly sad is you ignored everything I said with actual stats. I said multiple times, Jeter is great. He's a top 10-12 all time SS... He is not Cal Ripken, that's it.. if you want to compare him to the some of the greatest, he will come up short. He's the next tier.
You can bring up WS rings (a team effort), and his better oWAR propped up by being a better basrunner, sure... But if you want to use analytics, you can't cherry pick.. and there, Ripken absolutely embarrasses him defensively. Like, by a laughable about.. and it's shortstop we are talking about here, a very important defensive position.
Jeter is Yount great.. Ripken is all time great. And statistics are physically proof
Eye test?? Ripken didn't pass an eye test? Good lord.. it's crazy bias that some Yankee fans have.. not all.. someHe’s not top 10-12, that’s your issue. Nobody thinks that. He’s clearly top 5. You make it sound like Cal Ripken is somehow out of his league when they’re basically the same tier of great. Yount never won a WS, you can argue that a team wins a WS, not a player and you’re absolutely right, but the Yankees don’t win all five of those without Jeter... and all those great championship teams had a captain. You’re also just ignoring postseason stats as a whole. Jeter is a top 4 SS ever, behind Honus and A-Rod, and on the same level as Cal.
I don’t know if you’ll ever get this through your head, but Baseball is played on a field, not a calculator.
Baseball is played on a field?? Wow.. mind blown..
Do they keep score? -
@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
What's honestly sad is you ignored everything I said with actual stats. I said multiple times, Jeter is great. He's a top 10-12 all time SS... He is not Cal Ripken, that's it.. if you want to compare him to the some of the greatest, he will come up short. He's the next tier.
You can bring up WS rings (a team effort), and his better oWAR propped up by being a better basrunner, sure... But if you want to use analytics, you can't cherry pick.. and there, Ripken absolutely embarrasses him defensively. Like, by a laughable about.. and it's shortstop we are talking about here, a very important defensive position.
Jeter is Yount great.. Ripken is all time great. And statistics are physically proof
Eye test?? Ripken didn't pass an eye test? Good lord.. it's crazy bias that some Yankee fans have.. not all.. someHe’s not top 10-12, that’s your issue. Nobody thinks that. He’s clearly top 5. You make it sound like Cal Ripken is somehow out of his league when they’re basically the same tier of great. Yount never won a WS, you can argue that a team wins a WS, not a player and you’re absolutely right, but the Yankees don’t win all five of those without Jeter... and all those great championship teams had a captain. You’re also just ignoring postseason stats as a whole. Jeter is a top 4 SS ever, behind Honus and A-Rod, and on the same level as Cal.
I don’t know if you’ll ever get this through your head, but Baseball is played on a field, not a calculator.
Baseball is played on a field?? Wow.. mind blown..
Do they keep score?Advanced Defensive metrics were also considered poor indication stats with less reliability throughout the careers of both Cal and Jeter (and still are to an extent).
And if we remove dWAR Jeter wins... and spoiler alert, it’s not close.
-
Imagine disliking a player so much that you have to put loads of effort and mental gymnastics into discrediting an all-time great and the thought of seeing mock card art for them in a video game drives you insane. That’s really sad lol
-
@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
What's honestly sad is you ignored everything I said with actual stats. I said multiple times, Jeter is great. He's a top 10-12 all time SS... He is not Cal Ripken, that's it.. if you want to compare him to the some of the greatest, he will come up short. He's the next tier.
You can bring up WS rings (a team effort), and his better oWAR propped up by being a better basrunner, sure... But if you want to use analytics, you can't cherry pick.. and there, Ripken absolutely embarrasses him defensively. Like, by a laughable about.. and it's shortstop we are talking about here, a very important defensive position.
Jeter is Yount great.. Ripken is all time great. And statistics are physically proof
Eye test?? Ripken didn't pass an eye test? Good lord.. it's crazy bias that some Yankee fans have.. not all.. someHe’s not top 10-12, that’s your issue. Nobody thinks that. You make it sound like Cal Ripken is somehow out of his league when they’re basically the same tier of great. Yount never won a WS, you can argue that a team wins a WS, not a player and you’re absolutely right, but the Yankees don’t win all five of those without Jeter... and all those great championship teams had a captain. You’re also just ignoring postseason stats as a whole. Jeter is a top 4 SS ever, behind Honus and A-Rod, and on the same level as Cal.
I don’t know if you’ll ever get this through your head, but Baseball is played on a field, not a calculator.
Postseason stats are accumulated by getting the opportunity to do so. Where Jeter is extremely lucky to have been a Yankee during that time period.
His .820 OPS isn't exactly over the top either. So settle down.10-12 was pushing it. I'll say 8-10. My bad.. JAWS, Bbref, etc as well in SS leader boards agree..
And Yount won MVPs.. 2 of them... we ignoring those?You are simply not in the same level as someone when you're over 20 WAR behind the guy.
WAR can be subjective, of course... But 20? There is no doubt with that much.. and it's because defense is a thing.. which you clearly ignore.You’ve already established that you don’t count awards, we ignoring Jeter’s gold gloves, or do you only use awards when they fit your agenda.
Again, baseball is played on a field, not a calculator, you can’t punish Jeter for being great in the postseason just because other guys didn’t get the chance as frequently.
Truly a ridiculous level of mental gymnastics you’re going to here, when everyone who watched baseball the past two decades knows what Jeter was
I didn't ignore any award.. gold gloves are what started this whole thing but you ignore anything negative about your deity..
I'll say it one more time. Jeter was a great player. I watched his entire career.. He was bad defensively.. And that's why he isn't on Cal's level.
The mental gymnastics is ignoring that part of his game and repeating the good parts which we agree on. -
@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
Imagine disliking a player so much that you have to put loads of effort and mental gymnastics into discrediting an all-time great and the thought of seeing mock card art for them in a video game drives you insane. That’s really sad lol
I like Jeter lol.. you're mixing me in with the other poster I think
-
@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
What's honestly sad is you ignored everything I said with actual stats. I said multiple times, Jeter is great. He's a top 10-12 all time SS... He is not Cal Ripken, that's it.. if you want to compare him to the some of the greatest, he will come up short. He's the next tier.
You can bring up WS rings (a team effort), and his better oWAR propped up by being a better basrunner, sure... But if you want to use analytics, you can't cherry pick.. and there, Ripken absolutely embarrasses him defensively. Like, by a laughable about.. and it's shortstop we are talking about here, a very important defensive position.
Jeter is Yount great.. Ripken is all time great. And statistics are physically proof
Eye test?? Ripken didn't pass an eye test? Good lord.. it's crazy bias that some Yankee fans have.. not all.. someHe’s not top 10-12, that’s your issue. Nobody thinks that. You make it sound like Cal Ripken is somehow out of his league when they’re basically the same tier of great. Yount never won a WS, you can argue that a team wins a WS, not a player and you’re absolutely right, but the Yankees don’t win all five of those without Jeter... and all those great championship teams had a captain. You’re also just ignoring postseason stats as a whole. Jeter is a top 4 SS ever, behind Honus and A-Rod, and on the same level as Cal.
I don’t know if you’ll ever get this through your head, but Baseball is played on a field, not a calculator.
Postseason stats are accumulated by getting the opportunity to do so. Where Jeter is extremely lucky to have been a Yankee during that time period.
His .820 OPS isn't exactly over the top either. So settle down.10-12 was pushing it. I'll say 8-10. My bad.. JAWS, Bbref, etc as well in SS leader boards agree..
And Yount won MVPs.. 2 of them... we ignoring those?You are simply not in the same level as someone when you're over 20 WAR behind the guy.
WAR can be subjective, of course... But 20? There is no doubt with that much.. and it's because defense is a thing.. which you clearly ignore.You’ve already established that you don’t count awards, we ignoring Jeter’s gold gloves, or do you only use awards when they fit your agenda.
Again, baseball is played on a field, not a calculator, you can’t punish Jeter for being great in the postseason just because other guys didn’t get the chance as frequently.
Truly a ridiculous level of mental gymnastics you’re going to here, when everyone who watched baseball the past two decades knows what Jeter was
I didn't ignore any award.. gold gloves are what started this whole thing but you ignore anything negative about your deity..
I'll say it one more time. Jeter was a great player. I watched his entire career.. He was bad defensively.. And that's why he isn't on Cal's level.
The mental gymnastics is ignoring that part of his game and repeating the good parts which we agree on.And I would counter argue by saying (1) defensive stats are shaky (2) WAR is cumulative and Cal played more games (3) WAR doesn’t take into account postseason success, the whole point of the game (4) you can’t measure the impact of leadership or mentorship that Jeter had to championship teams (5) postseason success shouldn’t be negated just because others didn’t have those opportunities, Jeter always rose to the occasion.
Nobody legitimately believes Jeter was the worst defender ever, it’s a flawed stat showing flaws. Below average? Sure but when you count the points mentioned above, any skill gap between Cal and Jeter is negligible
-
@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
What's honestly sad is you ignored everything I said with actual stats. I said multiple times, Jeter is great. He's a top 10-12 all time SS... He is not Cal Ripken, that's it.. if you want to compare him to the some of the greatest, he will come up short. He's the next tier.
You can bring up WS rings (a team effort), and his better oWAR propped up by being a better basrunner, sure... But if you want to use analytics, you can't cherry pick.. and there, Ripken absolutely embarrasses him defensively. Like, by a laughable about.. and it's shortstop we are talking about here, a very important defensive position.
Jeter is Yount great.. Ripken is all time great. And statistics are physically proof
Eye test?? Ripken didn't pass an eye test? Good lord.. it's crazy bias that some Yankee fans have.. not all.. someHe’s not top 10-12, that’s your issue. Nobody thinks that. You make it sound like Cal Ripken is somehow out of his league when they’re basically the same tier of great. Yount never won a WS, you can argue that a team wins a WS, not a player and you’re absolutely right, but the Yankees don’t win all five of those without Jeter... and all those great championship teams had a captain. You’re also just ignoring postseason stats as a whole. Jeter is a top 4 SS ever, behind Honus and A-Rod, and on the same level as Cal.
I don’t know if you’ll ever get this through your head, but Baseball is played on a field, not a calculator.
Postseason stats are accumulated by getting the opportunity to do so. Where Jeter is extremely lucky to have been a Yankee during that time period.
His .820 OPS isn't exactly over the top either. So settle down.10-12 was pushing it. I'll say 8-10. My bad.. JAWS, Bbref, etc as well in SS leader boards agree..
And Yount won MVPs.. 2 of them... we ignoring those?You are simply not in the same level as someone when you're over 20 WAR behind the guy.
WAR can be subjective, of course... But 20? There is no doubt with that much.. and it's because defense is a thing.. which you clearly ignore.You’ve already established that you don’t count awards, we ignoring Jeter’s gold gloves, or do you only use awards when they fit your agenda.
Again, baseball is played on a field, not a calculator, you can’t punish Jeter for being great in the postseason just because other guys didn’t get the chance as frequently.
Truly a ridiculous level of mental gymnastics you’re going to here, when everyone who watched baseball the past two decades knows what Jeter was
I didn't ignore any award.. gold gloves are what started this whole thing but you ignore anything negative about your deity..
I'll say it one more time. Jeter was a great player. I watched his entire career.. He was bad defensively.. And that's why he isn't on Cal's level.
The mental gymnastics is ignoring that part of his game and repeating the good parts which we agree on.And I would counter argue by saying (1) defensive stats are shaky (2) WAR is cumulative and Cal played more games (3) WAR doesn’t take into account postseason success, the whole point of the game (4) you can’t measure the impact of leadership or mentorship that Jeter had to championship teams (5) postseason success shouldn’t be negated just because others didn’t have those opportunities, Jeter always rose to the occasion.
Nobody legitimately believes Jeter was the worst defender ever, it’s a flawed stat showing flaws. Below average? Sure but when you count the points mentioned above, any skill gap between Cal and Jeter is negligible
-
If it were close, ya.. negligible.. but it's not even in the same vicinity.. so no. There is no doubt here that Cal was wayy better than Derek defensively. In fact, he was one of the best ever.
-
Cal playing that many games is a bad thing? How should that be considered a point against him? He is ironman after all. A feat that we will never see again in baseball history. That should be a huge point for him in any argument. The most reliable player in history. You want to talk about intangibles? Start there
By the way. This is a fun debate. It isn't meant to be taken as an attack on your hero, or to be taken defensively which I obviously struck a nerve. It's a baseball debate. That's it. And once again, I don't hate Jeter at all. I hate the Yankees!! But always respected Jeter
-
-
@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
What's honestly sad is you ignored everything I said with actual stats. I said multiple times, Jeter is great. He's a top 10-12 all time SS... He is not Cal Ripken, that's it.. if you want to compare him to the some of the greatest, he will come up short. He's the next tier.
You can bring up WS rings (a team effort), and his better oWAR propped up by being a better basrunner, sure... But if you want to use analytics, you can't cherry pick.. and there, Ripken absolutely embarrasses him defensively. Like, by a laughable about.. and it's shortstop we are talking about here, a very important defensive position.
Jeter is Yount great.. Ripken is all time great. And statistics are physically proof
Eye test?? Ripken didn't pass an eye test? Good lord.. it's crazy bias that some Yankee fans have.. not all.. someHe’s not top 10-12, that’s your issue. Nobody thinks that. You make it sound like Cal Ripken is somehow out of his league when they’re basically the same tier of great. Yount never won a WS, you can argue that a team wins a WS, not a player and you’re absolutely right, but the Yankees don’t win all five of those without Jeter... and all those great championship teams had a captain. You’re also just ignoring postseason stats as a whole. Jeter is a top 4 SS ever, behind Honus and A-Rod, and on the same level as Cal.
I don’t know if you’ll ever get this through your head, but Baseball is played on a field, not a calculator.
Postseason stats are accumulated by getting the opportunity to do so. Where Jeter is extremely lucky to have been a Yankee during that time period.
His .820 OPS isn't exactly over the top either. So settle down.10-12 was pushing it. I'll say 8-10. My bad.. JAWS, Bbref, etc as well in SS leader boards agree..
And Yount won MVPs.. 2 of them... we ignoring those?You are simply not in the same level as someone when you're over 20 WAR behind the guy.
WAR can be subjective, of course... But 20? There is no doubt with that much.. and it's because defense is a thing.. which you clearly ignore.You’ve already established that you don’t count awards, we ignoring Jeter’s gold gloves, or do you only use awards when they fit your agenda.
Again, baseball is played on a field, not a calculator, you can’t punish Jeter for being great in the postseason just because other guys didn’t get the chance as frequently.
Truly a ridiculous level of mental gymnastics you’re going to here, when everyone who watched baseball the past two decades knows what Jeter was
I didn't ignore any award.. gold gloves are what started this whole thing but you ignore anything negative about your deity..
I'll say it one more time. Jeter was a great player. I watched his entire career.. He was bad defensively.. And that's why he isn't on Cal's level.
The mental gymnastics is ignoring that part of his game and repeating the good parts which we agree on.And I would counter argue by saying (1) defensive stats are shaky (2) WAR is cumulative and Cal played more games (3) WAR doesn’t take into account postseason success, the whole point of the game (4) you can’t measure the impact of leadership or mentorship that Jeter had to championship teams (5) postseason success shouldn’t be negated just because others didn’t have those opportunities, Jeter always rose to the occasion.
Nobody legitimately believes Jeter was the worst defender ever, it’s a flawed stat showing flaws. Below average? Sure but when you count the points mentioned above, any skill gap between Cal and Jeter is negligible
-
If it were close, ya.. negligible.. but it's not even in the same vicinity.. so no. There is no doubt here that Cal was wayy better than Derek defensively. In fact, he was one of the best ever.
-
Cal playing that many games is a bad thing? How should that be considered a point against him? He is ironman after all. A feat that we will never see again in baseball history. That should be a huge point for him in any argument. The most reliable player in history. You want to talk about intangibles? Start there
By the way. This is a fun debate. It isn't meant to be taken as an attack on your hero, or to be taken defensively which I obviously struck a nerve. It's a baseball debate. That's it. And once again, I don't hate Jeter at all. I hate the Yankees!! But always respected Jeter
I don’t have bb-ref open rn but what’s the difference, 20 WAR? If postseason success is the ultimate goal, I think Jeters impact at that is worth what the difference is.
Not saying postseason success is all due to one player, but Jeter had memorable plays at actively helped win WS titles. He was a few non-great plays away from the Yankees only having 24 or 25 rings rn. Stuff like that is hard to quantify since WAR isn’t tracked in the playoffs and it just can’t quantify some things.
-
-
@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
What's honestly sad is you ignored everything I said with actual stats. I said multiple times, Jeter is great. He's a top 10-12 all time SS... He is not Cal Ripken, that's it.. if you want to compare him to the some of the greatest, he will come up short. He's the next tier.
You can bring up WS rings (a team effort), and his better oWAR propped up by being a better basrunner, sure... But if you want to use analytics, you can't cherry pick.. and there, Ripken absolutely embarrasses him defensively. Like, by a laughable about.. and it's shortstop we are talking about here, a very important defensive position.
Jeter is Yount great.. Ripken is all time great. And statistics are physically proof
Eye test?? Ripken didn't pass an eye test? Good lord.. it's crazy bias that some Yankee fans have.. not all.. someHe’s not top 10-12, that’s your issue. Nobody thinks that. You make it sound like Cal Ripken is somehow out of his league when they’re basically the same tier of great. Yount never won a WS, you can argue that a team wins a WS, not a player and you’re absolutely right, but the Yankees don’t win all five of those without Jeter... and all those great championship teams had a captain. You’re also just ignoring postseason stats as a whole. Jeter is a top 4 SS ever, behind Honus and A-Rod, and on the same level as Cal.
I don’t know if you’ll ever get this through your head, but Baseball is played on a field, not a calculator.
Postseason stats are accumulated by getting the opportunity to do so. Where Jeter is extremely lucky to have been a Yankee during that time period.
His .820 OPS isn't exactly over the top either. So settle down.10-12 was pushing it. I'll say 8-10. My bad.. JAWS, Bbref, etc as well in SS leader boards agree..
And Yount won MVPs.. 2 of them... we ignoring those?You are simply not in the same level as someone when you're over 20 WAR behind the guy.
WAR can be subjective, of course... But 20? There is no doubt with that much.. and it's because defense is a thing.. which you clearly ignore.You’ve already established that you don’t count awards, we ignoring Jeter’s gold gloves, or do you only use awards when they fit your agenda.
Again, baseball is played on a field, not a calculator, you can’t punish Jeter for being great in the postseason just because other guys didn’t get the chance as frequently.
Truly a ridiculous level of mental gymnastics you’re going to here, when everyone who watched baseball the past two decades knows what Jeter was
I didn't ignore any award.. gold gloves are what started this whole thing but you ignore anything negative about your deity..
I'll say it one more time. Jeter was a great player. I watched his entire career.. He was bad defensively.. And that's why he isn't on Cal's level.
The mental gymnastics is ignoring that part of his game and repeating the good parts which we agree on.And I would counter argue by saying (1) defensive stats are shaky (2) WAR is cumulative and Cal played more games (3) WAR doesn’t take into account postseason success, the whole point of the game (4) you can’t measure the impact of leadership or mentorship that Jeter had to championship teams (5) postseason success shouldn’t be negated just because others didn’t have those opportunities, Jeter always rose to the occasion.
Nobody legitimately believes Jeter was the worst defender ever, it’s a flawed stat showing flaws. Below average? Sure but when you count the points mentioned above, any skill gap between Cal and Jeter is negligible
-
If it were close, ya.. negligible.. but it's not even in the same vicinity.. so no. There is no doubt here that Cal was wayy better than Derek defensively. In fact, he was one of the best ever.
-
Cal playing that many games is a bad thing? How should that be considered a point against him? He is ironman after all. A feat that we will never see again in baseball history. That should be a huge point for him in any argument. The most reliable player in history. You want to talk about intangibles? Start there
By the way. This is a fun debate. It isn't meant to be taken as an attack on your hero, or to be taken defensively which I obviously struck a nerve. It's a baseball debate. That's it. And once again, I don't hate Jeter at all. I hate the Yankees!! But always respected Jeter
I don’t have bb-ref open rn but what’s the difference, 20 WAR? If postseason success is the ultimate goal, I think Jeters impact at that is worth what the difference is.
Not saying postseason success is all due to one player, but Jeter had memorable plays at actively helped win WS titles. He was a few non-great plays away from the Yankees only having 24 or 25 rings rn. Stuff like that is hard to quantify since WAR isn’t tracked in the playoffs and it just can’t quantify some things.
How is that a fair debate when one player got to spend 20 years on a financial juggernaut and the other played on a lousy team? (for most of it)
The debate is who is the better player... And from what we can measure, I just don't see the debate. 20 WAR is 20 WAR. (Joe Carter's career lol)...
And here is where I think seals it.
Jeter never led the league in WAR... Not even close actually. He wasn't that MVP type guy...
Cal won 2, and led the league in WAR 3 times... He was the peak of the sport where Jeter wasn't.
And he played every game.. it probably even affected his numbers playing hurt too.. But there is something to be said for doing so.. imagine he had done that as a Yankee?? He'd be Jeter and Gehrig rolled into one and we wouldn't be having this debate at all -
-
@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@kdclemson_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
@nanthrax_1_psn said in Derek Jeter Concept Art:
What's honestly sad is you ignored everything I said with actual stats. I said multiple times, Jeter is great. He's a top 10-12 all time SS... He is not Cal Ripken, that's it.. if you want to compare him to the some of the greatest, he will come up short. He's the next tier.
You can bring up WS rings (a team effort), and his better oWAR propped up by being a better basrunner, sure... But if you want to use analytics, you can't cherry pick.. and there, Ripken absolutely embarrasses him defensively. Like, by a laughable about.. and it's shortstop we are talking about here, a very important defensive position.
Jeter is Yount great.. Ripken is all time great. And statistics are physically proof
Eye test?? Ripken didn't pass an eye test? Good lord.. it's crazy bias that some Yankee fans have.. not all.. someHe’s not top 10-12, that’s your issue. Nobody thinks that. You make it sound like Cal Ripken is somehow out of his league when they’re basically the same tier of great. Yount never won a WS, you can argue that a team wins a WS, not a player and you’re absolutely right, but the Yankees don’t win all five of those without Jeter... and all those great championship teams had a captain. You’re also just ignoring postseason stats as a whole. Jeter is a top 4 SS ever, behind Honus and A-Rod, and on the same level as Cal.
I don’t know if you’ll ever get this through your head, but Baseball is played on a field, not a calculator.
Postseason stats are accumulated by getting the opportunity to do so. Where Jeter is extremely lucky to have been a Yankee during that time period.
His .820 OPS isn't exactly over the top either. So settle down.10-12 was pushing it. I'll say 8-10. My bad.. JAWS, Bbref, etc as well in SS leader boards agree..
And Yount won MVPs.. 2 of them... we ignoring those?You are simply not in the same level as someone when you're over 20 WAR behind the guy.
WAR can be subjective, of course... But 20? There is no doubt with that much.. and it's because defense is a thing.. which you clearly ignore.You’ve already established that you don’t count awards, we ignoring Jeter’s gold gloves, or do you only use awards when they fit your agenda.
Again, baseball is played on a field, not a calculator, you can’t punish Jeter for being great in the postseason just because other guys didn’t get the chance as frequently.
Truly a ridiculous level of mental gymnastics you’re going to here, when everyone who watched baseball the past two decades knows what Jeter was
I didn't ignore any award.. gold gloves are what started this whole thing but you ignore anything negative about your deity..
I'll say it one more time. Jeter was a great player. I watched his entire career.. He was bad defensively.. And that's why he isn't on Cal's level.
The mental gymnastics is ignoring that part of his game and repeating the good parts which we agree on.And I would counter argue by saying (1) defensive stats are shaky (2) WAR is cumulative and Cal played more games (3) WAR doesn’t take into account postseason success, the whole point of the game (4) you can’t measure the impact of leadership or mentorship that Jeter had to championship teams (5) postseason success shouldn’t be negated just because others didn’t have those opportunities, Jeter always rose to the occasion.
Nobody legitimately believes Jeter was the worst defender ever, it’s a flawed stat showing flaws. Below average? Sure but when you count the points mentioned above, any skill gap between Cal and Jeter is negligible
-
If it were close, ya.. negligible.. but it's not even in the same vicinity.. so no. There is no doubt here that Cal was wayy better than Derek defensively. In fact, he was one of the best ever.
-
Cal playing that many games is a bad thing? How should that be considered a point against him? He is ironman after all. A feat that we will never see again in baseball history. That should be a huge point for him in any argument. The most reliable player in history. You want to talk about intangibles? Start there
By the way. This is a fun debate. It isn't meant to be taken as an attack on your hero, or to be taken defensively which I obviously struck a nerve. It's a baseball debate. That's it. And once again, I don't hate Jeter at all. I hate the Yankees!! But always respected Jeter
I don’t have bb-ref open rn but what’s the difference, 20 WAR? If postseason success is the ultimate goal, I think Jeters impact at that is worth what the difference is.
Not saying postseason success is all due to one player, but Jeter had memorable plays at actively helped win WS titles. He was a few non-great plays away from the Yankees only having 24 or 25 rings rn. Stuff like that is hard to quantify since WAR isn’t tracked in the playoffs and it just can’t quantify some things.
How is that a fair debate when one player got to spend 20 years on a financial juggernaut and the other played on a lousy team? (for most of it)
The debate is who is the better player... And from what we can measure, I just don't see the debate. 20 WAR is 20 WAR. (Joe Carter's career lol)...
And here is where I think seals it.
Jeter never led the league in WAR... Not even close actually. He wasn't that MVP type guy...
Cal won 2, and led the league in WAR 3 times... He was the peak of the sport where Jeter wasn't.
And he played every game.. it probably even affected his numbers playing hurt too.. But there is something to be said for doing so.. imagine he had done that as a Yankee?? He'd be Jeter and Gehrig rolled into one and we wouldn't be having this debate at allIt’s not Jeter’s fault small market teams are cheap lol, can’t punish him for being great when it mattered. Also leading the league in WAR doesn’t matter if your team doesn’t win titles. In terms of pure value towards winning it all, a single play like “The Flip” or a big WS home run can be worth more than full regular season games of WAR if it all goes into a black hole and doesn’t become any postseason success
-
