Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...
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@ilvmyjeep said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
No way to tell if this contributes to either of their success this year, but Arozarena gained about 15lbs of muscle over the offseason/quarantine, and Voit actually shed about 20lbs over the offseason and is leaner than he’s ever been.
Sometimes there are other factors that contribute to a players’ success that only come to light because of a change of scenery, in opportunity, or circumstance, and it doesn’t necessarily mean that someone missed something.
Other times, someone is able to pick up on something that unlocks a player’s potential. Charlie Morton’s pitching usage changed when he got to the Astros and he became incredibly effective, the Blue Jays changed Jose Bautista’ s swing and unlocked immense power, and numerous other examples.
Who is to say that had those players not had that change of scenery that they’d ever have reached their potential. Really makes you think about all the players that could have been had they been able to unlock whatever was holding them back.
Yanks were scouting Voit for like 1-2 years prior before he shed weight. They caught something with him that the Cards didn't.
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@DoIHearBossMusic said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
@ilvmyjeep said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
No way to tell if this contributes to either of their success this year, but Arozarena gained about 15lbs of muscle over the offseason/quarantine, and Voit actually shed about 20lbs over the offseason and is leaner than he’s ever been.
Sometimes there are other factors that contribute to a players’ success that only come to light because of a change of scenery, in opportunity, or circumstance, and it doesn’t necessarily mean that someone missed something.
Other times, someone is able to pick up on something that unlocks a player’s potential. Charlie Morton’s pitching usage changed when he got to the Astros and he became incredibly effective, the Blue Jays changed Jose Bautista’ s swing and unlocked immense power, and numerous other examples.
Who is to say that had those players not had that change of scenery that they’d ever have reached their potential. Really makes you think about all the players that could have been had they been able to unlock whatever was holding them back.
Yanks were scouting Voit for like 1-2 years prior before he shed weight. They caught something with him that the Cards didn't.
How was it in those Yankee scout rooms?
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@mjfc_363 said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
@DoIHearBossMusic said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
Annnnd another tater for Randy the Rocket. Thanks again for that dumb move Mozeliak you [censored]!
Dude is on another planet, easily ALCS MVP if they win
Remember Steve Avery?? Randy A just might be the LCS MVP!! Still doesn’t mean he’s a perennial all star!
There are worst things in the world than being Steve Avery, who had a stretch of four years with an above-average era+ from 91 to 94
Also Randy has hit everywhere a long the line, it's not a stretch of the imagination to see considerable success in his future.
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@eatyum said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
@mjfc_363 said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
@DoIHearBossMusic said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
Annnnd another tater for Randy the Rocket. Thanks again for that dumb move Mozeliak you [censored]!
Dude is on another planet, easily ALCS MVP if they win
Remember Steve Avery?? Randy A just might be the LCS MVP!! Still doesn’t mean he’s a perennial all star!
There are worst things in the world than being Steve Avery, who had a stretch of four years with an above-average era+ from 91 to 94
Also Randy has hit everywhere a long the line, it's not a stretch of the imagination to see considerable success in his future.
His swing is so compact and controlled, he can stick around for a while
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Anyone that believes what Arozarena is doing is anywhere close to sustainable doesn’t know a thing about baseball. He didn’t show this kind of power in Memphis last year despite his second time through the league or with the juiced ball. Just compare his HR/FB and ISO numbers. He’s going to crash hard when the league makes adjustments.
The Cards knew what they had. They weren’t trading a player who would hit better than anyone in baseball. They were trading the only OF on the 40-man with any value. They had to get rid of at least two if not three OFs on the 40-man. They got rid of a good, nowhere near great, prospect and got a better rated prospect in return. A prospect, mind you, that didn’t need to be added to the 40-man and who provided something lacking in the minors.
And Tampa didn’t expect this from Arozarena. If they had, he wouldn’t have been 8th or 9th on the depth chart to start the season. If there had been a minor league season, he would have been in AAA for the third year in a row.
Maybe he’s found something that will make some of what he’s doing with power stick more than what he ever showed in the past. This trade, though, is YEARS from being where we can say whether it was good or not.
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@GrxxnLikeGator said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
Anyone that believes what Arozarena is doing is anywhere close to sustainable doesn’t know a thing about baseball. He didn’t show this kind of power in Memphis last year despite his second time through the league or with the juiced ball. Just compare his HR/FB and ISO numbers. He’s going to crash hard when the league makes adjustments.
The Cards knew what they had. They weren’t trading a player who would hit better than anyone in baseball. They were trading the only OF on the 40-man with any value. They had to get rid of at least two if not three OFs on the 40-man. They got rid of a good, nowhere near great, prospect and got a better rated prospect in return. A prospect, mind you, that didn’t need to be added to the 40-man and who provided something lacking in the minors.
And Tampa didn’t expect this from Arozarena. If they had, he wouldn’t have been 8th or 9th on the depth chart to start the season. If there had been a minor league season, he would have been in AAA for the third year in a row.
Maybe he’s found something that will make some of what he’s doing with power stick more than what he ever showed in the past. This trade, though, is YEARS from being where we can say whether it was good or not.
Nobody thinks this is sustainable man, no one would expect this type of production to continue. But TB is known to have a superior player assessment/development program, they found something in Arozarena...just like the Yanks did with Voit that the Cardinals once again failed to find. They thought enough to give up a top 50 prospect and bat him at the top of the lineup early. While a top 50 prospect is a decent haul, Liberatore is still JUST a prospect, a lottery ticket. And the Cardinals needed OF production desperately since the overhyped Bader, ONeill and Thomas have sh@t the bed. And they traded their best OF for said lottery ticket. Ozuna, Arozarena, Voit, and Pham have made the Cards FO look VERY bad this season
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Mark Lemke, Steve Avery, David Freese, Steve Pearce. Plent of guys win post season awards and don’t turn into franchise players. Those are just off the top of my head without the google machine. I’m not buying what you’re selling bro. Been watching baseball for 40 years.
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David Freese still today is a icon in St. Louis. Wish he woulda stayed a Cardinals his whole career.
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@DoIHearBossMusic said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
@GrxxnLikeGator said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
Voit was dealt because he is a poor defender and didn’t project well offensively for Busch III (or anywhere except Yankee Stadium). The Cards did get their best reliever (over last two years) in return.
Nothing Arozarena is doing is remotely sustainable. I’ve seen tons of guys in lifetime do well in first 100-200 major league at bats. He’s going to fall. Soon. And they got one of the best lefty arms in the minors in return. Even TB didn’t think he’d do this. It took lots of failing of the many guys ahead of him on depth chart to fail.
Mo is a top 5 exec in the league.
LOL good one. He does juuuust enough to keep them competitive. He doesn't play to win though, just enough to keep the sheep fans crossing the turnstiles. Dewitt is profit first, win 2nd. 2020 is a bad reminder on just how many bad moves Moe made and they blew up in his face. Overrated
I agree OP. Scouting has been suspect for years. He has also put way to much stock in veterans that are making way more than their production indicates. It's almost as if he has thrown out advanced metrics and instead gone with his gut and keeping around those feel good story players but who really aren't that great.
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@raesONE said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
I honestly think Voit is a one year wonder. Arozarena way too early to tell.
voit has contributed for the past 2 years. hes only going to get better imo
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@TheMoShow__ said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
@raesONE said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
I honestly think Voit is a one year wonder. Arozarena way too early to tell.
voit has contributed for the past 2 years. hes only going to get better imo
How does he get better? Mike trout? Guy led the league in homers
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@raesONE said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
I honestly think Voit is a one year wonder. Arozarena way too early to tell.
I blame the shortened season. But I agree on voit.
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@mjfc_363 said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
Mark Lemke, Steve Avery, David Freese, Steve Pearce. Plent of guys win post season awards and don’t turn into franchise players. Those are just off the top of my head without the google machine. I’m not buying what you’re selling bro. Been watching baseball for 40 years.
I never said he was a franchise player, but they gave up 2 things that they desperately need THIS year and last, power in Voit and a dynamic OF who is showcasing 5 tools in Arozarena.
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@mubby_33 said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
@DoIHearBossMusic said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
@GrxxnLikeGator said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
Voit was dealt because he is a poor defender and didn’t project well offensively for Busch III (or anywhere except Yankee Stadium). The Cards did get their best reliever (over last two years) in return.
Nothing Arozarena is doing is remotely sustainable. I’ve seen tons of guys in lifetime do well in first 100-200 major league at bats. He’s going to fall. Soon. And they got one of the best lefty arms in the minors in return. Even TB didn’t think he’d do this. It took lots of failing of the many guys ahead of him on depth chart to fail.
Mo is a top 5 exec in the league.
LOL good one. He does juuuust enough to keep them competitive. He doesn't play to win though, just enough to keep the sheep fans crossing the turnstiles. Dewitt is profit first, win 2nd. 2020 is a bad reminder on just how many bad moves Moe made and they blew up in his face. Overrated
I agree OP. Scouting has been suspect for years. He has also put way to much stock in veterans that are making way more than their production indicates. It's almost as if he has thrown out advanced metrics and instead gone with his gut and keeping around those feel good story players but who really aren't that great.
Thank you, so many fans put on their homer glasses and can't see problems in their org. Many will say 'oh they've been competitive almost every year' but like my man Herm Edwards said, you play to WIN the game. The org makes little moves here JUST to treat water and save budget, but relies on the random nature of playoffs and hope they get in and catch a win streak. Yes, scouting is suspect and the dumb contracts he has given out have lessened their talent. Giving those dumb contracts to Carpenter and Fowler are why they no longer have Ozuna, Voit and Arozarena
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@GrxxnLikeGator said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
Voit was dealt because he is a poor defender and didn’t project well offensively for Busch III (or anywhere except Yankee Stadium). The Cards did get their best reliever (over last two years) in return.
Nothing Arozarena is doing is remotely sustainable. I’ve seen tons of guys in lifetime do well in first 100-200 major league at bats. He’s going to fall. Soon. And they got one of the best lefty arms in the minors in return. Even TB didn’t think he’d do this. It took lots of failing of the many guys ahead of him on depth chart to fail.
Mo is a top 5 exec in the league.
Arozarena has hit at all levels. Not sure how you say what he is doing is not sustainable. .320-.330 batting average 35-40 homers 110-120 RBI’s 15-25 sb’s are certainly sustainable. Based on his numbers coming up. Sounds like sour grapes if you ask me.
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@mjfc_363 said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
Mark Lemke, Steve Avery, David Freese, Steve Pearce. Plent of guys win post season awards and don’t turn into franchise players. Those are just off the top of my head without the google machine. I’m not buying what you’re selling bro. Been watching baseball for 40 years.
FYI Mark Lemke was a franchise second baseman for the Braves throughout the 90’s. Great glove and serviceable bat. And he did the small things like bunting and was a great base runner. Steve Avery was a great pitcher for 5 years with those same Braves before he sold his soul for free agency and left the organization and moved to Boston where they promptly used him the wrong way and destroyed his pitching shoulder by changing his delivery. But yeah!!!
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@KILLERPRESENCE4 said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
@GrxxnLikeGator said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
Voit was dealt because he is a poor defender and didn’t project well offensively for Busch III (or anywhere except Yankee Stadium). The Cards did get their best reliever (over last two years) in return.
Nothing Arozarena is doing is remotely sustainable. I’ve seen tons of guys in lifetime do well in first 100-200 major league at bats. He’s going to fall. Soon. And they got one of the best lefty arms in the minors in return. Even TB didn’t think he’d do this. It took lots of failing of the many guys ahead of him on depth chart to fail.
Mo is a top 5 exec in the league.
Arozarena has hit at all levels. Not sure how you say what he is doing is not sustainable. .320-.330 batting average 35-40 homers 110-120 RBI’s 15-25 sb’s are certainly sustainable. Based on his numbers coming up. Sounds like sour grapes if you ask me.
Sour grapes? Nope. Just know what stats to look at. Look at ISO. Look at HR/FB. Compare what he did in the minors. The numbers you are giving him make him a top 5 player in baseball. He won’t even be the best OF on the Rays next year.
I’m not mad at all. I’m happy for him. I’m happy for the deal they made. I was a big Liberatore fan already. I also understand how the front office had to operate. They aren’t in a window to win now. That will be very evident when they re-sign Molina and Wainwright this off-season. They’re remaining competitive while allowing two of their best players of the last 30 years to finish their careers with the team. I’m fine with that.
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@KILLERPRESENCE4 said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
@mjfc_363 said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
Mark Lemke, Steve Avery, David Freese, Steve Pearce. Plent of guys win post season awards and don’t turn into franchise players. Those are just off the top of my head without the google machine. I’m not buying what you’re selling bro. Been watching baseball for 40 years.
FYI Mark Lemke was a franchise second baseman for the Braves throughout the 90’s. Great glove and serviceable bat. And he did the small things like bunting and was a great base runner. Steve Avery was a great pitcher for 5 years with those same Braves before he sold his soul for free agency and left the organization and moved to Boston where they promptly used him the wrong way and destroyed his pitching shoulder by changing his delivery. But yeah!!!
Dude what are you smoking??
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@KILLERPRESENCE4 said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
@mjfc_363 said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
Mark Lemke, Steve Avery, David Freese, Steve Pearce. Plent of guys win post season awards and don’t turn into franchise players. Those are just off the top of my head without the google machine. I’m not buying what you’re selling bro. Been watching baseball for 40 years.
FYI Mark Lemke was a franchise second baseman for the Braves throughout the 90’s. Great glove and serviceable bat. And he did the small things like bunting and was a great base runner. Steve Avery was a great pitcher for 5 years with those same Braves before he sold his soul for free agency and left the organization and moved to Boston where they promptly used him the wrong way and destroyed his pitching shoulder by changing his delivery. But yeah!!!
Mark Lemke was a career .246 hitter with 32 home runs.......in his CAREER!!! Steve Avery was 96-83 and only once had an ERA under 3. Only had double digit wins 4 times in his career. He broke 200 innings a total of 3 times and that’s in an era when pitchers threw more innings.
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@nymets1987 said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
@TheMoShow__ said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
@raesONE said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
I honestly think Voit is a one year wonder. Arozarena way too early to tell.
voit has contributed for the past 2 years. hes only going to get better imo
How does he get better? Mike trout? Guy led the league in homers
overall getting better dingus
