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LOL, you are all acting like it's never been done before. It happens, will continue to happen and has happened repeatedly throughout the history baseball. The only thing people are mad about is how good they got at it.
Yankees used apple watches, The shot heard around the wall was tipped off by a buzzer etc. All this self-righteous indignation is hypocritical by the players and the fans. Threatening people's family is in far worst taste than the actual crime.
https://www.si.com/mlb/2020/01/23/sign-stealing-history-astros-red-sox
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The issue the majority of people are having is that they have eliminated all logic when it comes to this. Astros fans, non Astros fans, you name it. It's all emotionally based. That's why you see people say things like "people lost jobs!"
When you sit and think about this, smart baseball fans just looked at this as another episode of baseball.
It's not up to me to call myself a smart baseball fan (that's up to everyone else lol), but I can tell you guys -- taking the emotion out of this whole thing made me realize a LOT about whatever this "scandal" was supposed to accomplish.
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@hoboadam said in If you were an Astros fan...:
Let's remember this about Fiers... He wasn't offered an extension with Houston. Went to Detroit for a year. Said nothing. Did nothing. Signs with the A's. Waits until their season is over, then chirps.
Why the wait?
That's right. It wasn't convenient.
Timeline. September 2017, teams were told to stop. November 2017, additional rules and restrictions came out. Feb 2018, additional clarifications.
But everyone still thinks the Astros did stuff after the season started. Well, yeah. They did. They had a codebreaker. Not trash cans. Not buzzers. Not a psychic hotline phone in the dugout.
What's the difference in the timeline? Players were informed in Feb 2018.
In 2017, Luhnow didn't relay information to the players to stop. Hinch wasn't given the memo. Could Hinch and players done more to stop it? Of course.
But let's keep piling on. Let's keep speculation going about a buzzer on Altuve. Let's keep giving death threats. Let's keep posting wishing that Reddick's kid gets cancer.
Unreal folks.
I don't have a problem with Fiers coming out about it. I'm glad he did. Most of baseball knew what was going on, but an opposing player can't come out and say they are without actually witnessing it...which they couldn't since it was in the video room.
The problem I have is they got greedy and ruined it for another team. Hinch & the GM knew what was going on and didn't really do much about it. They knew they had a team who were very talented without the trash can. I don't see them beating the dodgers without the trash can in game 5. Interestingly enough, there were a lot of career highs for guys on that 2017 team.
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Okay I guess since everyone is giving their opinions on the matter...
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The Astros cheated, there is no denying that
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Their apology was one of the worst I've ever seen
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The fans have made it 100% worse because a lot of them have managed to be condescending jerks about their team doing something blatantly wrong
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It is, in fact a big deal, not because the Astros were good at it, but because they won with it, other teams didn't win and also stopped
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This is not going away, we still talk about the Black Sox, Pete Rose, and the steroid era
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There is this huge victim complex that the fans and players have that makes other people absolutely incapable of liking or forgiving them any time soon
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Bringing other teams down to your level is not how you justify your own team's actions. What the Astros did was on a far larger scale than anything else we've seen in recent memory, there was not an equal scale like in the steroid era because everyone was doing it, it's just flat out cheating
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Personally, to me, not being angry or embarrassed or upset at the situation shows where you are as a baseball fan. There's nothing wrong with being an Astros fan or a fan of a team, not being angry at a situation that made an absolute mockery of our sport shows that you are not a Baseball fan and you don't want what's best for the sport, you are a fan of a team, not the sport
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@xxfireflyxx69 said in If you were an Astros fan...:
LOL, you are all acting like it's never been done before. It happens, will continue to happen and has happened repeatedly throughout the history baseball. The only thing people are mad about is how good they got at it.
Yankees used apple watches, The shot heard around the wall was tipped off by a buzzer etc. All this self-righteous indignation is hypocritical by the players and the fans. Threatening people's family is in far worst taste than the actual crime.
https://www.si.com/mlb/2020/01/23/sign-stealing-history-astros-red-sox
Red Sox used Apple watches, and no one else used live camera feeds. Astros title is tainted. And where is that punk Verlander? Always has something to say,
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@JustASeal0 said in If you were an Astros fan...:
Okay I guess since everyone is giving their opinions on the matter...
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The Astros cheated, there is no denying that
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Their apology was one of the worst I've ever seen
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The fans have made it 100% worse because a lot of them have managed to be condescending jerks about their team doing something blatantly wrong
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It is, in fact a big deal, not because the Astros were good at it, but because they won with it, other teams didn't win and also stopped
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This is not going away, we still talk about the Black Sox, Pete Rose, and the steroid era
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There is this huge victim complex that the fans and players have that makes other people absolutely incapable of liking or forgiving them any time soon
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Bringing other teams down to your level is not how you justify your own team's actions. What the Astros did was on a far larger scale than anything else we've seen in recent memory, there was not an equal scale like in the steroid era because everyone was doing it, it's just flat out cheating
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Personally, to me, not being angry or embarrassed or upset at the situation shows where you are as a baseball fan. There's nothing wrong with being an Astros fan or a fan of a team, not being angry at a situation that made an absolute mockery of our sport shows that you are not a Baseball fan and you don't want what's best for the sport, you are a fan of a team, not the sport
I strongly agree with all of these points
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@hoboadam said in If you were an Astros fan...:
If I were a Dodger fan, I'd worry about my own team instead of continuing to use excuses as to why my team lost.
My team's pitchers didn't cheat. Other teams didn't hit.
Seeing the same people post the same [censored] every day gets old, real fast.
Over on reddit someone made a post about how the Astros stole away our chance for our first division title when we played game 163 vs LA. We split an away series in Houston 1-1 and we lost out because of the cheating scandal.
I laughed and replied "Dude we scored 1 run".
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@xxfireflyxx69 said in If you were an Astros fan...:
LOL, you are all acting like it's never been done before. It happens, will continue to happen and has happened repeatedly throughout the history baseball. The only thing people are mad about is how good they got at it.
Yankees used apple watches, The shot heard around the wall was tipped off by a buzzer etc. All this self-righteous indignation is hypocritical by the players and the fans. Threatening people's family is in far worst taste than the actual crime.
https://www.si.com/mlb/2020/01/23/sign-stealing-history-astros-red-sox
Why even waste time posting these links and stuff? See what I mean by too emotional? You aren't going to win any argument doing all that, brother. Astros are the Patriots now. This too shall pass.
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I am a dodger fan. Here is the true problem, Teams reported the Astros back in 2016 nothing was done to what we know. It is like the steroids problem this is why I think those who did steroids in the 90's or even the 80's should still be in the Hall of fame, Baseball including the commissioner knew the players were doing it, it brought in alot of money. After the strike in 94 steroids is the reason baseball got popular again. McGwire, Bonds, Sosa days. Once the Media got wind of it, it was crazy and they were all called cheaters not all of them were caught that did it. No rules at that time were put in place or were enforce. Back to the Astros cheating, Baseball knew about it in 2016 did nothing now if baseball did something about it we would not be discussing it today. Was it wrong yes it was, the Astro players should have just stayed quiet and not respond to the media once they started talking and acting like the victim that is where the issue is with me. Admitting it was wrong still act as if they earned that title is not a good look on them. Some things should go unsaid, No they had to open there mouths and make it worst on them, still acting like it was ok and playing a victim using excuses that everyone doing it but not bringing any evidence of what teams are doing it or players. This ultimately falls on baseball front office. If they were holding the management responsible. Crane should have been banned from baseball and have to sell his team at worst or be suspended from all team activity for at least a year min.
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Most responses from Astros fans on this topic are about how other teams have cheated or we won games on the road or you still couldn't hit our pitchers. They fail to admit there team is full of [censored] cheaters. How sad.
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MLB failed here more than anything. It's the reason this situation has evolved the way it did.
There was no disciplinary system in place for players set up by MLB. Any attempt by MLB to push it off on the union is a farce. The MLBPA wasn't preventing any discipline, their stance was any discipline should follow policy. MLB never instituted any kind of penalty system for players, only against teams and ownership.
When this all broke open MLB had no grounds for player discipline. The penalty system for players is not applicable to the timeline of the Astros cheating.
Manfred fined the Astros the maximum and suspended Hinch and Lunhow. That's all they could do. Of course MLB was made aware of potential cheating by Houston in 2017, but no one had any proof.
This only came to light because of Fiers, but to suggest he only waited till now it's also false. Bob Melvin stated he went to MLB with information from Fiers but did nothing.
That's where this all went haywire. MLB sat on it's hands and then the skeletons fell out of the closet.
Crane is a snake and the Astros players are chodes, but what else does it matter. The sign stealing scandal did not definitively determine the Astros winning the WS but they'll have to live with their reputations being tarnished.
Y'all can keep arguing about 2017, I'm here in 2020 enjoying spring training and the start of a new season of the greatest game on Earth
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@Chuck_Dizzle29 said in If you were an Astros fan...:
MLB failed here more than anything. It's the reason this situation has evolved the way it did.
There was no disciplinary system in place for players set up by MLB. Any attempt by MLB to push it off on the union is a farce. The MLBPA wasn't preventing any discipline, their stance was any discipline should follow policy. MLB never instituted any kind of penalty system for players, only against teams and ownership.
When this all broke open MLB had no grounds for player discipline. The penalty system for players is not applicable to the timeline of the Astros cheating.
Manfred fined the Astros the maximum and suspended Hinch and Lunhow. That's all they could do. Of course MLB was made aware of potential cheating by Houston in 2017, but no one had any proof.
This only came to light because of Fiers, but to suggest he only waited till now it's also false. Bob Melvin stated he went to MLB with information from Fiers but did nothing.
That's where this all went haywire. MLB sat on it's hands and then the skeletons fell out of the closet.
Crane is a snake and the Astros players are chodes, but what else does it matter. The sign stealing scandal did not definitively determine the Astros winning the WS but they'll have to live with their reputations being tarnished.
Y'all can keep arguing about 2017, I'm here in 2020 enjoying spring training and the start of a new season of the greatest game on Earth
️I couldn’t have said this better.
I don’t want to hear about the Astros anymore. Will the angels make a playoff push? Will the white Sox arrive ahead of schedule? Will Yankees be the power everyone thinks they will be? Will the Mets not be the Mets? Are the Reds a legitimate contender?
And the one I want to know the most...Will dodgers fans finally be able to replace Kirk Gibson with Mookie or Turner or Bellinger or Kershaw?
These are just a couple of great baseball stories out there this season that have nothing to do with the Astros. I really hope nobody gets suspended for throwing at Astros players. Too much other great stuff out there to worry about the Astros.
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@MathMan5072 said in If you were an Astros fan...:
@Chuck_Dizzle29 said in If you were an Astros fan...:
MLB failed here more than anything. It's the reason this situation has evolved the way it did.
There was no disciplinary system in place for players set up by MLB. Any attempt by MLB to push it off on the union is a farce. The MLBPA wasn't preventing any discipline, their stance was any discipline should follow policy. MLB never instituted any kind of penalty system for players, only against teams and ownership.
When this all broke open MLB had no grounds for player discipline. The penalty system for players is not applicable to the timeline of the Astros cheating.
Manfred fined the Astros the maximum and suspended Hinch and Lunhow. That's all they could do. Of course MLB was made aware of potential cheating by Houston in 2017, but no one had any proof.
This only came to light because of Fiers, but to suggest he only waited till now it's also false. Bob Melvin stated he went to MLB with information from Fiers but did nothing.
That's where this all went haywire. MLB sat on it's hands and then the skeletons fell out of the closet.
Crane is a snake and the Astros players are chodes, but what else does it matter. The sign stealing scandal did not definitively determine the Astros winning the WS but they'll have to live with their reputations being tarnished.
Y'all can keep arguing about 2017, I'm here in 2020 enjoying spring training and the start of a new season of the greatest game on Earth
️I couldn’t have said this better.
I don’t want to hear about the Astros anymore. Will the angels make a playoff push? Will the white Sox arrive ahead of schedule? Will Yankees be the power everyone thinks they will be? Will the Mets not be the Mets? Are the Reds a legitimate contender?
And the one I want to know the most...Will dodgers fans finally be able to replace Kirk Gibson with Mookie or Turner or Bellinger or Kershaw?
These are just a couple of great baseball stories out there this season that have nothing to do with the Astros. I really hope nobody gets suspended for throwing at Astros players. Too much other great stuff out there to worry about the Astros.
That's exactly why I said it got too emotional. Now, folks are just TIRED. Them trash can jokes (which is really the main thing a LOT people can't wait to joke about before actually being angry) can only take folks so far. Posting "W" and "L" on Twitter doesn't matter. That's not fun. And if the Astros suck, then what does the MLB have to speak on? Clowning Houston is fine but that's not going to be what true blue baseball fans will want to hear about in Mid-May.
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@JustASeal0 said in If you were an Astros fan...:
Okay I guess since everyone is giving their opinions on the matter...
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The Astros cheated, there is no denying that
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Their apology was one of the worst I've ever seen
-
The fans have made it 100% worse because a lot of them have managed to be condescending jerks about their team doing something blatantly wrong
-
It is, in fact a big deal, not because the Astros were good at it, but because they won with it, other teams didn't win and also stopped
-
This is not going away, we still talk about the Black Sox, Pete Rose, and the steroid era
-
There is this huge victim complex that the fans and players have that makes other people absolutely incapable of liking or forgiving them any time soon
-
Bringing other teams down to your level is not how you justify your own team's actions. What the Astros did was on a far larger scale than anything else we've seen in recent memory, there was not an equal scale like in the steroid era because everyone was doing it, it's just flat out cheating
-
Personally, to me, not being angry or embarrassed or upset at the situation shows where you are as a baseball fan. There's nothing wrong with being an Astros fan or a fan of a team, not being angry at a situation that made an absolute mockery of our sport shows that you are not a Baseball fan and you don't want what's best for the sport, you are a fan of a team, not the sport
Drop the microphone bro... Just drop it
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They pay at Enron Stadium.
Would you expect better of them?
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@hoboadam said in If you were an Astros fan...:
Other teams didn't hit.
I’m sorry but this is such a stupid argument. Yes, the Dodgers didn’t hit; they were facing good pitching. Maybe they would’ve been able to hit if they had trash cans and buzzers helping them identify the pitches. Didn’t a ton of big name Astros players (cough cough Altuve) hit like .100 on the road? In that sense, they didn’t hit either.
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