Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.
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@j9milz said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@eatyum said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@j9milz said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@SchnauzerFace said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
Man, i feel really bad for Griffey. The kid just can't stay healthy
Wait, you’re saying Griffey is the most overrated player in baseball history?
Please explain.
People forget the fact he played from 2001-2010. He had a wonderful peak, but people act like he was at the same level as Babe Ruth and Ted Williams, when in reality his second half was a non hall-of-fame compiler tier career. For reference, from 1989-1999(The first 11 years of his 22 year career), he was an absolute monster. These 11 years are what made him rightfully a first ballot Hall of Famers. But from 2000-2010(the last 11 years), he was merely above average. He turned into an injury riddled player who could hit a bomb or two when healthy. This is the part of his career that takes him out of the inner circle, and takes him out of the comparisons with the Tippy Top greats, though a lot of people still rank him there due to rose tinted nostalgia goggles
So many things wrong with this its laughable. Yes Griffey did have 3 years in cincy where he played less than 80 games. But his first two years 62 total HRs. His last 3 years at ages 35, 36 and 37. 35 Hr 92 rbi, 27 hr 72 rbi, 30 hr 92 rbi.pretty good for a guy who could "just get a HR or two. Griffey had a very good 15 years as a pro and 7 not so good because of injury and old age. BLASPHEMY
You are using RBI's to determine a players worth?
Let me note, that I do think Griffey had some good years with the Reds, I just don't think you framed the argument very well.
Is putting up runs now a bad thing. Is it not a players job to drive in runs?Could've I have went into more detail. Point was Even in his later year while battling through injuries Griffey still put Pretty Great Numbers and was more than just a guy good for a hr or two
I never said it was a bad thing in general, BUT it isn't a good measure of determining how good or bad a player is because it largely has to do with forces outside their control (I.E. other batters getting on base)
To put it in another context, if he had less runners on base when batting, but still got the same hits, would he be a worse player or the same? The answer is obviously the same because he can't control that.
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@j9milz said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@SchnauzerFace said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
Man, i feel really bad for Griffey. The kid just can't stay healthy
Wait, you’re saying Griffey is the most overrated player in baseball history?
Please explain.
People forget the fact he played from 2001-2010. He had a wonderful peak, but people act like he was at the same level as Babe Ruth and Ted Williams, when in reality his second half was a non hall-of-fame compiler tier career. For reference, from 1989-1999(The first 11 years of his 22 year career), he was an absolute monster. These 11 years are what made him rightfully a first ballot Hall of Famers. But from 2000-2010(the last 11 years), he was merely above average. He turned into an injury riddled player who could hit a bomb or two when healthy. This is the part of his career that takes him out of the inner circle, and takes him out of the comparisons with the Tippy Top greats, though a lot of people still rank him there due to rose tinted nostalgia goggles
So many things wrong with this its laughable. Yes Griffey did have 3 years in cincy where he played less than 80 games. But his first two years 62 total HRs. His last 3 years at ages 35, 36 and 37. 35 Hr 92 rbi, 27 hr 72 rbi, 30 hr 92 rbi.pretty good for a guy who could "just get a HR or two. Griffey had a very good 15 years as a pro and 7 not so good because of injury and old age. BLASPHEMY
1989-1999:
.299/.380/.569/.948, 149 OPS+, 320 2B, 398 HR, 70.9 bWAR(68.4 fWAR)
2000-2010:
.262/.355/.493/.848, 117 OPS+, 204 2B, 232 HR, 12.9 bWAR(9.1 fWAR)
He was a significantly worse player in the second half of his career. His bat dropped off pretty [censored] hard, but his defense and baserunning cratered in those years@j9milz said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@eatyum said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@j9milz said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@SchnauzerFace said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
Man, i feel really bad for Griffey. The kid just can't stay healthy
Wait, you’re saying Griffey is the most overrated player in baseball history?
Please explain.
People forget the fact he played from 2001-2010. He had a wonderful peak, but people act like he was at the same level as Babe Ruth and Ted Williams, when in reality his second half was a non hall-of-fame compiler tier career. For reference, from 1989-1999(The first 11 years of his 22 year career), he was an absolute monster. These 11 years are what made him rightfully a first ballot Hall of Famers. But from 2000-2010(the last 11 years), he was merely above average. He turned into an injury riddled player who could hit a bomb or two when healthy. This is the part of his career that takes him out of the inner circle, and takes him out of the comparisons with the Tippy Top greats, though a lot of people still rank him there due to rose tinted nostalgia goggles
So many things wrong with this its laughable. Yes Griffey did have 3 years in cincy where he played less than 80 games. But his first two years 62 total HRs. His last 3 years at ages 35, 36 and 37. 35 Hr 92 rbi, 27 hr 72 rbi, 30 hr 92 rbi.pretty good for a guy who could "just get a HR or two. Griffey had a very good 15 years as a pro and 7 not so good because of injury and old age. BLASPHEMY
You are using RBI's to determine a players worth?
Let me note, that I do think Griffey had some good years with the Reds, I just don't think you framed the argument very well.
Is putting up runs now a bad thing. Is it not a players job to drive in runs?Could've I have went into more detail. Point was Even in his later year while battling through injuries Griffey still put Pretty Great Numbers and was more than just a guy good for a hr or two
RBI is a very weak measure of player skill, as it is almost entirely dependent on players batting before him
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@eatyum said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@j9milz said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@eatyum said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@j9milz said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@SchnauzerFace said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
Man, i feel really bad for Griffey. The kid just can't stay healthy
Wait, you’re saying Griffey is the most overrated player in baseball history?
Please explain.
People forget the fact he played from 2001-2010. He had a wonderful peak, but people act like he was at the same level as Babe Ruth and Ted Williams, when in reality his second half was a non hall-of-fame compiler tier career. For reference, from 1989-1999(The first 11 years of his 22 year career), he was an absolute monster. These 11 years are what made him rightfully a first ballot Hall of Famers. But from 2000-2010(the last 11 years), he was merely above average. He turned into an injury riddled player who could hit a bomb or two when healthy. This is the part of his career that takes him out of the inner circle, and takes him out of the comparisons with the Tippy Top greats, though a lot of people still rank him there due to rose tinted nostalgia goggles
So many things wrong with this its laughable. Yes Griffey did have 3 years in cincy where he played less than 80 games. But his first two years 62 total HRs. His last 3 years at ages 35, 36 and 37. 35 Hr 92 rbi, 27 hr 72 rbi, 30 hr 92 rbi.pretty good for a guy who could "just get a HR or two. Griffey had a very good 15 years as a pro and 7 not so good because of injury and old age. BLASPHEMY
You are using RBI's to determine a players worth?
Let me note, that I do think Griffey had some good years with the Reds, I just don't think you framed the argument very well.
Is putting up runs now a bad thing. Is it not a players job to drive in runs?Could've I have went into more detail. Point was Even in his later year while battling through injuries Griffey still put Pretty Great Numbers and was more than just a guy good for a hr or two
I never said it was a bad thing in general, BUT it isn't a good measure of determining how good or bad a player is because it largely has to do with forces outside their control (I.E. other batters getting on base)
To put it in another context, if he had less runners on base when batting, but still got the same hits, would he be a worse player or the same? The answer is obviously the same because he can't control that.
I get what youre saying.
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@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
1989-1999:
.299/.380/.569/.948, 149 OPS+, 320 2B, 398 HR, 70.9 bWAR(68.4 fWAR)
2000-2010:
.262/.355/.493/.848, 117 OPS+, 204 2B, 232 HR, 12.9 bWAR(9.1 fWAR)
He was a significantly worse player in the second half of his career. His bat dropped off pretty [censored] hard, but his defense and baserunning cratered in those yearsObviously huge bias here. But an OPS of a hundred points higher than the average major leaguer through 10 years of injuries!? I’ll take that every day of the week. I get your point though, for me it was just more heartbreaking than an “I told you he wasn’t that good” thing.
It’s not as much of an overrated thing because to even the blind eye, he was one of the most special talents baseball has ever seen. It’s more of a “Can you imagine what could have been” situation.
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@MrGamebred said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
1989-1999:
.299/.380/.569/.948, 149 OPS+, 320 2B, 398 HR, 70.9 bWAR(68.4 fWAR)
2000-2010:
.262/.355/.493/.848, 117 OPS+, 204 2B, 232 HR, 12.9 bWAR(9.1 fWAR)
He was a significantly worse player in the second half of his career. His bat dropped off pretty [censored] hard, but his defense and baserunning cratered in those yearsObviously huge bias here. But an OPS of a hundred points higher than the average major leaguer through 10 years of injuries!? I’ll take that every day of the week. I get your point though, for me it was just more heartbreaking.
It’s not as much of an “Overrated” thing because to even the blind eye, he was one of the most special talents baseball has ever seen. It’s more of a “Can you imagine what could have been” situation.
The way OPS+ works, is it compares all offensive players to any given time period, and assigns a flat number to indicate what % above or below average (100). In those later years, Griffey was 17% above average. Which is good, but not inner circle good. I've already said his peak was incredible, with him ranking 6th among all CF in JAWS AND WAR7. But the Kingdome basically shredding his knees did a lot of damage to his second half. Those crappy turf donuts were notorious for that kind of damage
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@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@j9milz said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@SchnauzerFace said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
Man, i feel really bad for Griffey. The kid just can't stay healthy
Wait, you’re saying Griffey is the most overrated player in baseball history?
Please explain.
People forget the fact he played from 2001-2010. He had a wonderful peak, but people act like he was at the same level as Babe Ruth and Ted Williams, when in reality his second half was a non hall-of-fame compiler tier career. For reference, from 1989-1999(The first 11 years of his 22 year career), he was an absolute monster. These 11 years are what made him rightfully a first ballot Hall of Famers. But from 2000-2010(the last 11 years), he was merely above average. He turned into an injury riddled player who could hit a bomb or two when healthy. This is the part of his career that takes him out of the inner circle, and takes him out of the comparisons with the Tippy Top greats, though a lot of people still rank him there due to rose tinted nostalgia goggles
So many things wrong with this its laughable. Yes Griffey did have 3 years in cincy where he played less than 80 games. But his first two years 62 total HRs. His last 3 years at ages 35, 36 and 37. 35 Hr 92 rbi, 27 hr 72 rbi, 30 hr 92 rbi.pretty good for a guy who could "just get a HR or two. Griffey had a very good 15 years as a pro and 7 not so good because of injury and old age. BLASPHEMY
1989-1999:
.299/.380/.569/.948, 149 OPS+, 320 2B, 398 HR, 70.9 bWAR(68.4 fWAR)
2000-2010:
.262/.355/.493/.848, 117 OPS+, 204 2B, 232 HR, 12.9 bWAR(9.1 fWAR)
He was a significantly worse player in the second half of his career. His bat dropped off pretty [censored] hard, but his defense and baserunning cratered in those yearsThose are also including averages from his last 3 years at 38,39,40 which were obviously his worst years be far. When healthy in cincy Griffey was still a great hitter, was he as good as he was in his prime. No but not far off. Nobody is a good as they were once they are past their prime. Thats why its called their prime. He still hit about 270 and had about the same ops. Look at pujols at the same age still cranking HRs but batting below 250. He is the guy you're talking about when you say still good for a HR or two.
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@j9milz said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@j9milz said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@SchnauzerFace said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
Man, i feel really bad for Griffey. The kid just can't stay healthy
Wait, you’re saying Griffey is the most overrated player in baseball history?
Please explain.
People forget the fact he played from 2001-2010. He had a wonderful peak, but people act like he was at the same level as Babe Ruth and Ted Williams, when in reality his second half was a non hall-of-fame compiler tier career. For reference, from 1989-1999(The first 11 years of his 22 year career), he was an absolute monster. These 11 years are what made him rightfully a first ballot Hall of Famers. But from 2000-2010(the last 11 years), he was merely above average. He turned into an injury riddled player who could hit a bomb or two when healthy. This is the part of his career that takes him out of the inner circle, and takes him out of the comparisons with the Tippy Top greats, though a lot of people still rank him there due to rose tinted nostalgia goggles
So many things wrong with this its laughable. Yes Griffey did have 3 years in cincy where he played less than 80 games. But his first two years 62 total HRs. His last 3 years at ages 35, 36 and 37. 35 Hr 92 rbi, 27 hr 72 rbi, 30 hr 92 rbi.pretty good for a guy who could "just get a HR or two. Griffey had a very good 15 years as a pro and 7 not so good because of injury and old age. BLASPHEMY
1989-1999:
.299/.380/.569/.948, 149 OPS+, 320 2B, 398 HR, 70.9 bWAR(68.4 fWAR)
2000-2010:
.262/.355/.493/.848, 117 OPS+, 204 2B, 232 HR, 12.9 bWAR(9.1 fWAR)
He was a significantly worse player in the second half of his career. His bat dropped off pretty [censored] hard, but his defense and baserunning cratered in those yearsThose are also including averages from his last 3 years at 38,39,40 which were obviously his worst years be far. When healthy in cincy Griffey was still a great hitter, was he as good as he was in his prime. No but not far off. Nobody is a good as they were once they are past their prime. Thats why its called their prime. He still hit about 270 and had about the same ops. Look at pujols at the same age still cranking HRs but batting below 250. He is the guy you're talking about when you say still good for a HR or two.
"at about the same OPS"
a 100 point difference in OPS is massive. And removing 2008-2010, his numbers don't get significantly better
.273/.357/.517/874, 122 OPS+. Even then, I am a firm believer that when you look at a career, you look at all of it. I don't disregard Babe Ruth's year with the Braves, or when Willie Mays played for the Mets. Those years happened and we have to take them just as much as we have to take the good ones -
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@j9milz said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@j9milz said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@SchnauzerFace said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
Man, i feel really bad for Griffey. The kid just can't stay healthy
Wait, you’re saying Griffey is the most overrated player in baseball history?
Please explain.
People forget the fact he played from 2001-2010. He had a wonderful peak, but people act like he was at the same level as Babe Ruth and Ted Williams, when in reality his second half was a non hall-of-fame compiler tier career. For reference, from 1989-1999(The first 11 years of his 22 year career), he was an absolute monster. These 11 years are what made him rightfully a first ballot Hall of Famers. But from 2000-2010(the last 11 years), he was merely above average. He turned into an injury riddled player who could hit a bomb or two when healthy. This is the part of his career that takes him out of the inner circle, and takes him out of the comparisons with the Tippy Top greats, though a lot of people still rank him there due to rose tinted nostalgia goggles
So many things wrong with this its laughable. Yes Griffey did have 3 years in cincy where he played less than 80 games. But his first two years 62 total HRs. His last 3 years at ages 35, 36 and 37. 35 Hr 92 rbi, 27 hr 72 rbi, 30 hr 92 rbi.pretty good for a guy who could "just get a HR or two. Griffey had a very good 15 years as a pro and 7 not so good because of injury and old age. BLASPHEMY
1989-1999:
.299/.380/.569/.948, 149 OPS+, 320 2B, 398 HR, 70.9 bWAR(68.4 fWAR)
2000-2010:
.262/.355/.493/.848, 117 OPS+, 204 2B, 232 HR, 12.9 bWAR(9.1 fWAR)
He was a significantly worse player in the second half of his career. His bat dropped off pretty [censored] hard, but his defense and baserunning cratered in those yearsThose are also including averages from his last 3 years at 38,39,40 which were obviously his worst years be far. When healthy in cincy Griffey was still a great hitter, was he as good as he was in his prime. No but not far off. Nobody is a good as they were once they are past their prime. Thats why its called their prime. He still hit about 270 and had about the same ops. Look at pujols at the same age still cranking HRs but batting below 250. He is the guy you're talking about when you say still good for a HR or two.
"at about the same OPS"
a 100 point difference in OPS is massive. And removing 2008-2010, his numbers don't get significantly better
.273/.357/.517/874, 122 OPS+. Even then, I am a firm believer that when you look at a career, you look at all of it. I don't disregard Babe Ruth's year with the Braves, or when Willie Mays played for the Mets. Those years happened and we have to take them just as much as we have to take the good onesObp is what i meant. But fine dude if you wanna believe Griffey is overrated be my guess
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@j9milz said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@j9milz said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@j9milz said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@SchnauzerFace said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
Man, i feel really bad for Griffey. The kid just can't stay healthy
Wait, you’re saying Griffey is the most overrated player in baseball history?
Please explain.
People forget the fact he played from 2001-2010. He had a wonderful peak, but people act like he was at the same level as Babe Ruth and Ted Williams, when in reality his second half was a non hall-of-fame compiler tier career. For reference, from 1989-1999(The first 11 years of his 22 year career), he was an absolute monster. These 11 years are what made him rightfully a first ballot Hall of Famers. But from 2000-2010(the last 11 years), he was merely above average. He turned into an injury riddled player who could hit a bomb or two when healthy. This is the part of his career that takes him out of the inner circle, and takes him out of the comparisons with the Tippy Top greats, though a lot of people still rank him there due to rose tinted nostalgia goggles
So many things wrong with this its laughable. Yes Griffey did have 3 years in cincy where he played less than 80 games. But his first two years 62 total HRs. His last 3 years at ages 35, 36 and 37. 35 Hr 92 rbi, 27 hr 72 rbi, 30 hr 92 rbi.pretty good for a guy who could "just get a HR or two. Griffey had a very good 15 years as a pro and 7 not so good because of injury and old age. BLASPHEMY
1989-1999:
.299/.380/.569/.948, 149 OPS+, 320 2B, 398 HR, 70.9 bWAR(68.4 fWAR)
2000-2010:
.262/.355/.493/.848, 117 OPS+, 204 2B, 232 HR, 12.9 bWAR(9.1 fWAR)
He was a significantly worse player in the second half of his career. His bat dropped off pretty [censored] hard, but his defense and baserunning cratered in those yearsThose are also including averages from his last 3 years at 38,39,40 which were obviously his worst years be far. When healthy in cincy Griffey was still a great hitter, was he as good as he was in his prime. No but not far off. Nobody is a good as they were once they are past their prime. Thats why its called their prime. He still hit about 270 and had about the same ops. Look at pujols at the same age still cranking HRs but batting below 250. He is the guy you're talking about when you say still good for a HR or two.
"at about the same OPS"
a 100 point difference in OPS is massive. And removing 2008-2010, his numbers don't get significantly better
.273/.357/.517/874, 122 OPS+. Even then, I am a firm believer that when you look at a career, you look at all of it. I don't disregard Babe Ruth's year with the Braves, or when Willie Mays played for the Mets. Those years happened and we have to take them just as much as we have to take the good onesObp is what i meant. But fine dude if you wanna believe Griffey is overrated be my guess
He absolutely was. Like I said pefore, people try to lump him in with the Willie Mays, Babe Ruths, Hank Aarons, and Ty Cobbs of baseball, when he's more comparable to the George Bretts, Chipper Jones, and Wade Boggs of the baseball world. All great, first ballot tier Hall of Famers in their own rights. But just not tippy top inner circle GOAT among GOATs Types. Now, if you'd like to talk about the single most underrated player in history, may I introduce you to Mel Ott?
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@eatyum said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
Lol at most overrated player in history.
No-one was saying he was gonna be Babe Ruth, the only reason Ruth was mentioned when talking about Shohei is because they were both pitchers and hitters.
Also what kind of person likes to gloat about someone being overrated right after they get injured? I feel sorry for Shohei, he has the potential to be something special, and these injuries are tragic.
You are absolutely correct! It's amazing how many people don't get that. But I guess there are a lot of people who aren't that knowledgeable about baseball history.
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@D_e_m_I_s_E said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
Based on the title I thought Harper got hurt and he isn't even playing.
Same here!
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Most overrated player in history injured -- and here I was thinking how did Derek Jeter hurt himself i the front office?
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Angels always have trouble with their pitchers. Somehow there has not been a complete overhaul of the athletic training staff at this point. It is mind boggling that one team can have so many pitcher injuries, consistently every single year... Ohtani is fantastic, we saw that his first year in the league. He probably tried to hard to get back onto the field and should have been easing into it more. That may also be due to his drive and not wanting to fail. Ohtani is like Ichiro, he wants to be the best. It's just unfortunate.
To say he is overrated is incorrect, because injuries are not a part of skill and talent. Ohtani is one of the most talented ball players. If he was putting up the same numbers he did in his Rookie year, throughout a season, he would be MVP. He hits and pitches exceptionally well, which no one else is doing in the game today. It's ignorant to call him overrated. He's been injured and is injured again.
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@D_e_m_I_s_E said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
Based on the title I thought Harper got hurt and he isn't even playing.
I thought the same exact thing sir!
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