Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.
-
@Dclnnn said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@eatyum said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@dbarmonstar said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@Dclnnn said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@Ikasnu said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
I don't think Shohei is overrated. He's very [censored] talented, he's just struggling to get healthy.
Not really as talented as what people think. He’s really a platoon against righties, and a good to great pitching arm, which currently can’t stay healthy
Why do you hate on him personally? what has he done to you to hate on him?
He is also factually incorrect. Ohtani definitely is weaker versus lefties, but he still hits pretty well.
Ohtani hit .282 vs lefties last year, .447 slugging isn't that impressive, but the ops of .794 puts him as an above-average hitter.I defer to you on that, sorry I always want to have the truth on things. But still overrated nonetheless
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, I have never heard him be compared to Ruth. Was he hyped by the media yeah he was. The majority of players that come over from Japan are hyped by the media. If he did not get injured or just hit and not pitch would he be overrated? Is he overrated cause he got injured and his numbers do not equal to what they should be? I have not heard anything about him being as good as such and such player. Thy hype was about him being a two way player. He is good enough to be that but injury have slowed him down from his potential does that make him overrated no. Overrated is a guy who is when healthy under perform of his expectations. He has performed to expectations when healthy as a hitter I would say he should stop trying to pitch but the jury is still out on how good he can be as a pitcher due to injury.
-
@dbarmonstar said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@Dclnnn said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@eatyum said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@dbarmonstar said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@Dclnnn said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@Ikasnu said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
I don't think Shohei is overrated. He's very [censored] talented, he's just struggling to get healthy.
Not really as talented as what people think. He’s really a platoon against righties, and a good to great pitching arm, which currently can’t stay healthy
Why do you hate on him personally? what has he done to you to hate on him?
He is also factually incorrect. Ohtani definitely is weaker versus lefties, but he still hits pretty well.
Ohtani hit .282 vs lefties last year, .447 slugging isn't that impressive, but the ops of .794 puts him as an above-average hitter.I defer to you on that, sorry I always want to have the truth on things. But still overrated nonetheless
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, I have never heard him be compared to Ruth. Was he hyped by the media yeah he was. The majority of players that come over from Japan are hyped by the media. If he did not get injured or just hit and not pitch would he be overrated? Is he overrated cause he got injured and his numbers do not equal to what they should be? I have not heard anything about him being as good as such and such player. Thy hype was about him being a two way player. He is good enough to be that but injury have slowed him down from his potential does that make him overrated no. Overrated is a guy who is when healthy under perform of his expectations. He has performed to expectations when healthy as a hitter I would say he should stop trying to pitch but the jury is still out on how good he can be as a pitcher due to injury.
He was not only hyped by the media but also by the fans... they thought they definitely had a guy that was going to make the Angels playoff contenders. Which in all honesty even if he is healthy he isn’t enough to do that
-
@Dclnnn said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@dbarmonstar said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@Dclnnn said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@eatyum said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@dbarmonstar said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@Dclnnn said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@Ikasnu said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
I don't think Shohei is overrated. He's very [censored] talented, he's just struggling to get healthy.
Not really as talented as what people think. He’s really a platoon against righties, and a good to great pitching arm, which currently can’t stay healthy
Why do you hate on him personally? what has he done to you to hate on him?
He is also factually incorrect. Ohtani definitely is weaker versus lefties, but he still hits pretty well.
Ohtani hit .282 vs lefties last year, .447 slugging isn't that impressive, but the ops of .794 puts him as an above-average hitter.I defer to you on that, sorry I always want to have the truth on things. But still overrated nonetheless
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, I have never heard him be compared to Ruth. Was he hyped by the media yeah he was. The majority of players that come over from Japan are hyped by the media. If he did not get injured or just hit and not pitch would he be overrated? Is he overrated cause he got injured and his numbers do not equal to what they should be? I have not heard anything about him being as good as such and such player. Thy hype was about him being a two way player. He is good enough to be that but injury have slowed him down from his potential does that make him overrated no. Overrated is a guy who is when healthy under perform of his expectations. He has performed to expectations when healthy as a hitter I would say he should stop trying to pitch but the jury is still out on how good he can be as a pitcher due to injury.
He was not only hyped by the media but also by the fans... they thought they definitely had a guy that was going to make the Angels playoff contenders. Which in all honesty even if he is healthy he isn’t enough to do that
Not realistic fans. He does make the Angles a lot better than what they were when Healthy. Realistically he is not overrated cause he has not under performed when healthy.
-
@SchnauzerFace said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
Man, i feel really bad for Griffey. The kid just can't stay healthy
Wait, you’re saying Griffey is the most overrated player in baseball history?
Please explain.
People forget the fact he played from 2001-2010. He had a wonderful peak, but people act like he was at the same level as Babe Ruth and Ted Williams, when in reality his second half was a non hall-of-fame compiler tier career. For reference, from 1989-1999(The first 11 years of his 22 year career), he was an absolute monster. These 11 years are what made him rightfully a first ballot Hall of Famers. But from 2000-2010(the last 11 years), he was merely above average. He turned into an injury riddled player who could hit a bomb or two when healthy. This is the part of his career that takes him out of the inner circle, and takes him out of the comparisons with the Tippy Top greats, though a lot of people still rank him there due to rose tinted nostalgia goggles
-
@the_dragon1912 said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@D_e_m_I_s_E said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
Based on the title I thought Harper got hurt and he isn't even playing.
Tbh Harper being overrated has become such a mainstream thing that he has become underrated. He’s actually pretty good but people refuse to believe it
Good player? Yes. Worth 30 million/yr? No. He isn't close to Trout and Betts.
-
@D_e_m_I_s_E said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@the_dragon1912 said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@D_e_m_I_s_E said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
Based on the title I thought Harper got hurt and he isn't even playing.
Tbh Harper being overrated has become such a mainstream thing that he has become underrated. He’s actually pretty good but people refuse to believe it
Good player? Yes. Worth 30 million/yr? No. He isn't close to Trout and Betts.
Harper doesn't make 30m a year. He makes 25.4m a year. He doesn't even rank among the top 10 in AAV. It's kind of Odd Harper gets this level of heat for his contract, but nobody talks about Greinke's contract, which places him significantly higher than AAV. Last I checked he was #1 all time in that regard
-
@dbarmonstar said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@Dclnnn said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@dbarmonstar said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@Dclnnn said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@eatyum said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@dbarmonstar said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@Dclnnn said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@Ikasnu said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
I don't think Shohei is overrated. He's very [censored] talented, he's just struggling to get healthy.
Not really as talented as what people think. He’s really a platoon against righties, and a good to great pitching arm, which currently can’t stay healthy
Why do you hate on him personally? what has he done to you to hate on him?
He is also factually incorrect. Ohtani definitely is weaker versus lefties, but he still hits pretty well.
Ohtani hit .282 vs lefties last year, .447 slugging isn't that impressive, but the ops of .794 puts him as an above-average hitter.I defer to you on that, sorry I always want to have the truth on things. But still overrated nonetheless
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, I have never heard him be compared to Ruth. Was he hyped by the media yeah he was. The majority of players that come over from Japan are hyped by the media. If he did not get injured or just hit and not pitch would he be overrated? Is he overrated cause he got injured and his numbers do not equal to what they should be? I have not heard anything about him being as good as such and such player. Thy hype was about him being a two way player. He is good enough to be that but injury have slowed him down from his potential does that make him overrated no. Overrated is a guy who is when healthy under perform of his expectations. He has performed to expectations when healthy as a hitter I would say he should stop trying to pitch but the jury is still out on how good he can be as a pitcher due to injury.
He was not only hyped by the media but also by the fans... they thought they definitely had a guy that was going to make the Angels playoff contenders. Which in all honesty even if he is healthy he isn’t enough to do that
Not realistic fans. He does make the Angles a lot better than what they were when Healthy. Realistically he is not overrated cause he has not under performed when healthy.
He has not under performed with good expectations, he hasn’t not under performed with great expectations and more from his fans.
-
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@SchnauzerFace said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
Man, i feel really bad for Griffey. The kid just can't stay healthy
Wait, you’re saying Griffey is the most overrated player in baseball history?
Please explain.
People forget the fact he played from 2001-2010. He had a wonderful peak, but people act like he was at the same level as Babe Ruth and Ted Williams, when in reality his second half was a non hall-of-fame compiler tier career. For reference, from 1989-1999(The first 11 years of his 22 year career), he was an absolute monster. These 11 years are what made him rightfully a first ballot Hall of Famers. But from 2000-2010(the last 11 years), he was merely above average. He turned into an injury riddled player who could hit a bomb or two when healthy. This is the part of his career that takes him out of the inner circle, and takes him out of the comparisons with the Tippy Top greats, though a lot of people still rank him there due to rose tinted nostalgia goggles
Very true we can only imagine how his number would be if he stayed healthy,
-
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@SchnauzerFace said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
Man, i feel really bad for Griffey. The kid just can't stay healthy
Wait, you’re saying Griffey is the most overrated player in baseball history?
Please explain.
People forget the fact he played from 2001-2010. He had a wonderful peak, but people act like he was at the same level as Babe Ruth and Ted Williams, when in reality his second half was a non hall-of-fame compiler tier career. For reference, from 1989-1999(The first 11 years of his 22 year career), he was an absolute monster. These 11 years are what made him rightfully a first ballot Hall of Famers. But from 2000-2010(the last 11 years), he was merely above average. He turned into an injury riddled player who could hit a bomb or two when healthy. This is the part of his career that takes him out of the inner circle, and takes him out of the comparisons with the Tippy Top greats, though a lot of people still rank him there due to rose tinted nostalgia goggles
So many things wrong with this its laughable. Yes Griffey did have 3 years in cincy where he played less than 80 games. But his first two years 62 total HRs. His last 3 years at ages 35, 36 and 37. 35 Hr 92 rbi, 27 hr 72 rbi, 30 hr 92 rbi.pretty good for a guy who could "just get a HR or two. Griffey had a very good 15 years as a pro and 7 not so good because of injury and old age. BLASPHEMY
-
@j9milz said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@SchnauzerFace said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
Man, i feel really bad for Griffey. The kid just can't stay healthy
Wait, you’re saying Griffey is the most overrated player in baseball history?
Please explain.
People forget the fact he played from 2001-2010. He had a wonderful peak, but people act like he was at the same level as Babe Ruth and Ted Williams, when in reality his second half was a non hall-of-fame compiler tier career. For reference, from 1989-1999(The first 11 years of his 22 year career), he was an absolute monster. These 11 years are what made him rightfully a first ballot Hall of Famers. But from 2000-2010(the last 11 years), he was merely above average. He turned into an injury riddled player who could hit a bomb or two when healthy. This is the part of his career that takes him out of the inner circle, and takes him out of the comparisons with the Tippy Top greats, though a lot of people still rank him there due to rose tinted nostalgia goggles
So many things wrong with this its laughable. Yes Griffey did have 3 years in cincy where he played less than 80 games. But his first two years 62 total HRs. His last 3 years at ages 35, 36 and 37. 35 Hr 92 rbi, 27 hr 72 rbi, 30 hr 92 rbi.pretty good for a guy who could "just get a HR or two. Griffey had a very good 15 years as a pro and 7 not so good because of injury and old age. BLASPHEMY
You are using RBI's to determine a players worth?
Let me note, that I do think Griffey had some good years with the Reds, I just don't think you framed the argument very well.
-
@eatyum said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@j9milz said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@SchnauzerFace said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
Man, i feel really bad for Griffey. The kid just can't stay healthy
Wait, you’re saying Griffey is the most overrated player in baseball history?
Please explain.
People forget the fact he played from 2001-2010. He had a wonderful peak, but people act like he was at the same level as Babe Ruth and Ted Williams, when in reality his second half was a non hall-of-fame compiler tier career. For reference, from 1989-1999(The first 11 years of his 22 year career), he was an absolute monster. These 11 years are what made him rightfully a first ballot Hall of Famers. But from 2000-2010(the last 11 years), he was merely above average. He turned into an injury riddled player who could hit a bomb or two when healthy. This is the part of his career that takes him out of the inner circle, and takes him out of the comparisons with the Tippy Top greats, though a lot of people still rank him there due to rose tinted nostalgia goggles
So many things wrong with this its laughable. Yes Griffey did have 3 years in cincy where he played less than 80 games. But his first two years 62 total HRs. His last 3 years at ages 35, 36 and 37. 35 Hr 92 rbi, 27 hr 72 rbi, 30 hr 92 rbi.pretty good for a guy who could "just get a HR or two. Griffey had a very good 15 years as a pro and 7 not so good because of injury and old age. BLASPHEMY
You are using RBI's to determine a players worth?
Let me note, that I do think Griffey had some good years with the Reds, I just don't think you framed the argument very well.
Is putting up runs now a bad thing. Is it not a players job to drive in runs?Could've I have went into more detail. Point was Even in his later year while battling through injuries Griffey still put Pretty Great Numbers and was more than just a guy good for a hr or two
-
@j9milz said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@eatyum said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@j9milz said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@SchnauzerFace said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
Man, i feel really bad for Griffey. The kid just can't stay healthy
Wait, you’re saying Griffey is the most overrated player in baseball history?
Please explain.
People forget the fact he played from 2001-2010. He had a wonderful peak, but people act like he was at the same level as Babe Ruth and Ted Williams, when in reality his second half was a non hall-of-fame compiler tier career. For reference, from 1989-1999(The first 11 years of his 22 year career), he was an absolute monster. These 11 years are what made him rightfully a first ballot Hall of Famers. But from 2000-2010(the last 11 years), he was merely above average. He turned into an injury riddled player who could hit a bomb or two when healthy. This is the part of his career that takes him out of the inner circle, and takes him out of the comparisons with the Tippy Top greats, though a lot of people still rank him there due to rose tinted nostalgia goggles
So many things wrong with this its laughable. Yes Griffey did have 3 years in cincy where he played less than 80 games. But his first two years 62 total HRs. His last 3 years at ages 35, 36 and 37. 35 Hr 92 rbi, 27 hr 72 rbi, 30 hr 92 rbi.pretty good for a guy who could "just get a HR or two. Griffey had a very good 15 years as a pro and 7 not so good because of injury and old age. BLASPHEMY
You are using RBI's to determine a players worth?
Let me note, that I do think Griffey had some good years with the Reds, I just don't think you framed the argument very well.
Is putting up runs now a bad thing. Is it not a players job to drive in runs?Could've I have went into more detail. Point was Even in his later year while battling through injuries Griffey still put Pretty Great Numbers and was more than just a guy good for a hr or two
I never said it was a bad thing in general, BUT it isn't a good measure of determining how good or bad a player is because it largely has to do with forces outside their control (I.E. other batters getting on base)
To put it in another context, if he had less runners on base when batting, but still got the same hits, would he be a worse player or the same? The answer is obviously the same because he can't control that.
-
@j9milz said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@SchnauzerFace said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
Man, i feel really bad for Griffey. The kid just can't stay healthy
Wait, you’re saying Griffey is the most overrated player in baseball history?
Please explain.
People forget the fact he played from 2001-2010. He had a wonderful peak, but people act like he was at the same level as Babe Ruth and Ted Williams, when in reality his second half was a non hall-of-fame compiler tier career. For reference, from 1989-1999(The first 11 years of his 22 year career), he was an absolute monster. These 11 years are what made him rightfully a first ballot Hall of Famers. But from 2000-2010(the last 11 years), he was merely above average. He turned into an injury riddled player who could hit a bomb or two when healthy. This is the part of his career that takes him out of the inner circle, and takes him out of the comparisons with the Tippy Top greats, though a lot of people still rank him there due to rose tinted nostalgia goggles
So many things wrong with this its laughable. Yes Griffey did have 3 years in cincy where he played less than 80 games. But his first two years 62 total HRs. His last 3 years at ages 35, 36 and 37. 35 Hr 92 rbi, 27 hr 72 rbi, 30 hr 92 rbi.pretty good for a guy who could "just get a HR or two. Griffey had a very good 15 years as a pro and 7 not so good because of injury and old age. BLASPHEMY
1989-1999:
.299/.380/.569/.948, 149 OPS+, 320 2B, 398 HR, 70.9 bWAR(68.4 fWAR)
2000-2010:
.262/.355/.493/.848, 117 OPS+, 204 2B, 232 HR, 12.9 bWAR(9.1 fWAR)
He was a significantly worse player in the second half of his career. His bat dropped off pretty [censored] hard, but his defense and baserunning cratered in those years@j9milz said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@eatyum said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@j9milz said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@SchnauzerFace said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
Man, i feel really bad for Griffey. The kid just can't stay healthy
Wait, you’re saying Griffey is the most overrated player in baseball history?
Please explain.
People forget the fact he played from 2001-2010. He had a wonderful peak, but people act like he was at the same level as Babe Ruth and Ted Williams, when in reality his second half was a non hall-of-fame compiler tier career. For reference, from 1989-1999(The first 11 years of his 22 year career), he was an absolute monster. These 11 years are what made him rightfully a first ballot Hall of Famers. But from 2000-2010(the last 11 years), he was merely above average. He turned into an injury riddled player who could hit a bomb or two when healthy. This is the part of his career that takes him out of the inner circle, and takes him out of the comparisons with the Tippy Top greats, though a lot of people still rank him there due to rose tinted nostalgia goggles
So many things wrong with this its laughable. Yes Griffey did have 3 years in cincy where he played less than 80 games. But his first two years 62 total HRs. His last 3 years at ages 35, 36 and 37. 35 Hr 92 rbi, 27 hr 72 rbi, 30 hr 92 rbi.pretty good for a guy who could "just get a HR or two. Griffey had a very good 15 years as a pro and 7 not so good because of injury and old age. BLASPHEMY
You are using RBI's to determine a players worth?
Let me note, that I do think Griffey had some good years with the Reds, I just don't think you framed the argument very well.
Is putting up runs now a bad thing. Is it not a players job to drive in runs?Could've I have went into more detail. Point was Even in his later year while battling through injuries Griffey still put Pretty Great Numbers and was more than just a guy good for a hr or two
RBI is a very weak measure of player skill, as it is almost entirely dependent on players batting before him
-
@eatyum said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@j9milz said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@eatyum said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@j9milz said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@SchnauzerFace said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
Man, i feel really bad for Griffey. The kid just can't stay healthy
Wait, you’re saying Griffey is the most overrated player in baseball history?
Please explain.
People forget the fact he played from 2001-2010. He had a wonderful peak, but people act like he was at the same level as Babe Ruth and Ted Williams, when in reality his second half was a non hall-of-fame compiler tier career. For reference, from 1989-1999(The first 11 years of his 22 year career), he was an absolute monster. These 11 years are what made him rightfully a first ballot Hall of Famers. But from 2000-2010(the last 11 years), he was merely above average. He turned into an injury riddled player who could hit a bomb or two when healthy. This is the part of his career that takes him out of the inner circle, and takes him out of the comparisons with the Tippy Top greats, though a lot of people still rank him there due to rose tinted nostalgia goggles
So many things wrong with this its laughable. Yes Griffey did have 3 years in cincy where he played less than 80 games. But his first two years 62 total HRs. His last 3 years at ages 35, 36 and 37. 35 Hr 92 rbi, 27 hr 72 rbi, 30 hr 92 rbi.pretty good for a guy who could "just get a HR or two. Griffey had a very good 15 years as a pro and 7 not so good because of injury and old age. BLASPHEMY
You are using RBI's to determine a players worth?
Let me note, that I do think Griffey had some good years with the Reds, I just don't think you framed the argument very well.
Is putting up runs now a bad thing. Is it not a players job to drive in runs?Could've I have went into more detail. Point was Even in his later year while battling through injuries Griffey still put Pretty Great Numbers and was more than just a guy good for a hr or two
I never said it was a bad thing in general, BUT it isn't a good measure of determining how good or bad a player is because it largely has to do with forces outside their control (I.E. other batters getting on base)
To put it in another context, if he had less runners on base when batting, but still got the same hits, would he be a worse player or the same? The answer is obviously the same because he can't control that.
I get what youre saying.
-
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
1989-1999:
.299/.380/.569/.948, 149 OPS+, 320 2B, 398 HR, 70.9 bWAR(68.4 fWAR)
2000-2010:
.262/.355/.493/.848, 117 OPS+, 204 2B, 232 HR, 12.9 bWAR(9.1 fWAR)
He was a significantly worse player in the second half of his career. His bat dropped off pretty [censored] hard, but his defense and baserunning cratered in those yearsObviously huge bias here. But an OPS of a hundred points higher than the average major leaguer through 10 years of injuries!? I’ll take that every day of the week. I get your point though, for me it was just more heartbreaking than an “I told you he wasn’t that good” thing.
It’s not as much of an overrated thing because to even the blind eye, he was one of the most special talents baseball has ever seen. It’s more of a “Can you imagine what could have been” situation.
-
@MrGamebred said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
1989-1999:
.299/.380/.569/.948, 149 OPS+, 320 2B, 398 HR, 70.9 bWAR(68.4 fWAR)
2000-2010:
.262/.355/.493/.848, 117 OPS+, 204 2B, 232 HR, 12.9 bWAR(9.1 fWAR)
He was a significantly worse player in the second half of his career. His bat dropped off pretty [censored] hard, but his defense and baserunning cratered in those yearsObviously huge bias here. But an OPS of a hundred points higher than the average major leaguer through 10 years of injuries!? I’ll take that every day of the week. I get your point though, for me it was just more heartbreaking.
It’s not as much of an “Overrated” thing because to even the blind eye, he was one of the most special talents baseball has ever seen. It’s more of a “Can you imagine what could have been” situation.
The way OPS+ works, is it compares all offensive players to any given time period, and assigns a flat number to indicate what % above or below average (100). In those later years, Griffey was 17% above average. Which is good, but not inner circle good. I've already said his peak was incredible, with him ranking 6th among all CF in JAWS AND WAR7. But the Kingdome basically shredding his knees did a lot of damage to his second half. Those crappy turf donuts were notorious for that kind of damage
-
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@j9milz said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@SchnauzerFace said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
Man, i feel really bad for Griffey. The kid just can't stay healthy
Wait, you’re saying Griffey is the most overrated player in baseball history?
Please explain.
People forget the fact he played from 2001-2010. He had a wonderful peak, but people act like he was at the same level as Babe Ruth and Ted Williams, when in reality his second half was a non hall-of-fame compiler tier career. For reference, from 1989-1999(The first 11 years of his 22 year career), he was an absolute monster. These 11 years are what made him rightfully a first ballot Hall of Famers. But from 2000-2010(the last 11 years), he was merely above average. He turned into an injury riddled player who could hit a bomb or two when healthy. This is the part of his career that takes him out of the inner circle, and takes him out of the comparisons with the Tippy Top greats, though a lot of people still rank him there due to rose tinted nostalgia goggles
So many things wrong with this its laughable. Yes Griffey did have 3 years in cincy where he played less than 80 games. But his first two years 62 total HRs. His last 3 years at ages 35, 36 and 37. 35 Hr 92 rbi, 27 hr 72 rbi, 30 hr 92 rbi.pretty good for a guy who could "just get a HR or two. Griffey had a very good 15 years as a pro and 7 not so good because of injury and old age. BLASPHEMY
1989-1999:
.299/.380/.569/.948, 149 OPS+, 320 2B, 398 HR, 70.9 bWAR(68.4 fWAR)
2000-2010:
.262/.355/.493/.848, 117 OPS+, 204 2B, 232 HR, 12.9 bWAR(9.1 fWAR)
He was a significantly worse player in the second half of his career. His bat dropped off pretty [censored] hard, but his defense and baserunning cratered in those yearsThose are also including averages from his last 3 years at 38,39,40 which were obviously his worst years be far. When healthy in cincy Griffey was still a great hitter, was he as good as he was in his prime. No but not far off. Nobody is a good as they were once they are past their prime. Thats why its called their prime. He still hit about 270 and had about the same ops. Look at pujols at the same age still cranking HRs but batting below 250. He is the guy you're talking about when you say still good for a HR or two.
-
@j9milz said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@j9milz said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@SchnauzerFace said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
Man, i feel really bad for Griffey. The kid just can't stay healthy
Wait, you’re saying Griffey is the most overrated player in baseball history?
Please explain.
People forget the fact he played from 2001-2010. He had a wonderful peak, but people act like he was at the same level as Babe Ruth and Ted Williams, when in reality his second half was a non hall-of-fame compiler tier career. For reference, from 1989-1999(The first 11 years of his 22 year career), he was an absolute monster. These 11 years are what made him rightfully a first ballot Hall of Famers. But from 2000-2010(the last 11 years), he was merely above average. He turned into an injury riddled player who could hit a bomb or two when healthy. This is the part of his career that takes him out of the inner circle, and takes him out of the comparisons with the Tippy Top greats, though a lot of people still rank him there due to rose tinted nostalgia goggles
So many things wrong with this its laughable. Yes Griffey did have 3 years in cincy where he played less than 80 games. But his first two years 62 total HRs. His last 3 years at ages 35, 36 and 37. 35 Hr 92 rbi, 27 hr 72 rbi, 30 hr 92 rbi.pretty good for a guy who could "just get a HR or two. Griffey had a very good 15 years as a pro and 7 not so good because of injury and old age. BLASPHEMY
1989-1999:
.299/.380/.569/.948, 149 OPS+, 320 2B, 398 HR, 70.9 bWAR(68.4 fWAR)
2000-2010:
.262/.355/.493/.848, 117 OPS+, 204 2B, 232 HR, 12.9 bWAR(9.1 fWAR)
He was a significantly worse player in the second half of his career. His bat dropped off pretty [censored] hard, but his defense and baserunning cratered in those yearsThose are also including averages from his last 3 years at 38,39,40 which were obviously his worst years be far. When healthy in cincy Griffey was still a great hitter, was he as good as he was in his prime. No but not far off. Nobody is a good as they were once they are past their prime. Thats why its called their prime. He still hit about 270 and had about the same ops. Look at pujols at the same age still cranking HRs but batting below 250. He is the guy you're talking about when you say still good for a HR or two.
"at about the same OPS"
a 100 point difference in OPS is massive. And removing 2008-2010, his numbers don't get significantly better
.273/.357/.517/874, 122 OPS+. Even then, I am a firm believer that when you look at a career, you look at all of it. I don't disregard Babe Ruth's year with the Braves, or when Willie Mays played for the Mets. Those years happened and we have to take them just as much as we have to take the good ones -
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@j9milz said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@j9milz said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@SchnauzerFace said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
Man, i feel really bad for Griffey. The kid just can't stay healthy
Wait, you’re saying Griffey is the most overrated player in baseball history?
Please explain.
People forget the fact he played from 2001-2010. He had a wonderful peak, but people act like he was at the same level as Babe Ruth and Ted Williams, when in reality his second half was a non hall-of-fame compiler tier career. For reference, from 1989-1999(The first 11 years of his 22 year career), he was an absolute monster. These 11 years are what made him rightfully a first ballot Hall of Famers. But from 2000-2010(the last 11 years), he was merely above average. He turned into an injury riddled player who could hit a bomb or two when healthy. This is the part of his career that takes him out of the inner circle, and takes him out of the comparisons with the Tippy Top greats, though a lot of people still rank him there due to rose tinted nostalgia goggles
So many things wrong with this its laughable. Yes Griffey did have 3 years in cincy where he played less than 80 games. But his first two years 62 total HRs. His last 3 years at ages 35, 36 and 37. 35 Hr 92 rbi, 27 hr 72 rbi, 30 hr 92 rbi.pretty good for a guy who could "just get a HR or two. Griffey had a very good 15 years as a pro and 7 not so good because of injury and old age. BLASPHEMY
1989-1999:
.299/.380/.569/.948, 149 OPS+, 320 2B, 398 HR, 70.9 bWAR(68.4 fWAR)
2000-2010:
.262/.355/.493/.848, 117 OPS+, 204 2B, 232 HR, 12.9 bWAR(9.1 fWAR)
He was a significantly worse player in the second half of his career. His bat dropped off pretty [censored] hard, but his defense and baserunning cratered in those yearsThose are also including averages from his last 3 years at 38,39,40 which were obviously his worst years be far. When healthy in cincy Griffey was still a great hitter, was he as good as he was in his prime. No but not far off. Nobody is a good as they were once they are past their prime. Thats why its called their prime. He still hit about 270 and had about the same ops. Look at pujols at the same age still cranking HRs but batting below 250. He is the guy you're talking about when you say still good for a HR or two.
"at about the same OPS"
a 100 point difference in OPS is massive. And removing 2008-2010, his numbers don't get significantly better
.273/.357/.517/874, 122 OPS+. Even then, I am a firm believer that when you look at a career, you look at all of it. I don't disregard Babe Ruth's year with the Braves, or when Willie Mays played for the Mets. Those years happened and we have to take them just as much as we have to take the good onesObp is what i meant. But fine dude if you wanna believe Griffey is overrated be my guess
-
@j9milz said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@j9milz said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@j9milz said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@SchnauzerFace said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
@ImDFC said in Most overrated player in baseball history might be injured again.:
Man, i feel really bad for Griffey. The kid just can't stay healthy
Wait, you’re saying Griffey is the most overrated player in baseball history?
Please explain.
People forget the fact he played from 2001-2010. He had a wonderful peak, but people act like he was at the same level as Babe Ruth and Ted Williams, when in reality his second half was a non hall-of-fame compiler tier career. For reference, from 1989-1999(The first 11 years of his 22 year career), he was an absolute monster. These 11 years are what made him rightfully a first ballot Hall of Famers. But from 2000-2010(the last 11 years), he was merely above average. He turned into an injury riddled player who could hit a bomb or two when healthy. This is the part of his career that takes him out of the inner circle, and takes him out of the comparisons with the Tippy Top greats, though a lot of people still rank him there due to rose tinted nostalgia goggles
So many things wrong with this its laughable. Yes Griffey did have 3 years in cincy where he played less than 80 games. But his first two years 62 total HRs. His last 3 years at ages 35, 36 and 37. 35 Hr 92 rbi, 27 hr 72 rbi, 30 hr 92 rbi.pretty good for a guy who could "just get a HR or two. Griffey had a very good 15 years as a pro and 7 not so good because of injury and old age. BLASPHEMY
1989-1999:
.299/.380/.569/.948, 149 OPS+, 320 2B, 398 HR, 70.9 bWAR(68.4 fWAR)
2000-2010:
.262/.355/.493/.848, 117 OPS+, 204 2B, 232 HR, 12.9 bWAR(9.1 fWAR)
He was a significantly worse player in the second half of his career. His bat dropped off pretty [censored] hard, but his defense and baserunning cratered in those yearsThose are also including averages from his last 3 years at 38,39,40 which were obviously his worst years be far. When healthy in cincy Griffey was still a great hitter, was he as good as he was in his prime. No but not far off. Nobody is a good as they were once they are past their prime. Thats why its called their prime. He still hit about 270 and had about the same ops. Look at pujols at the same age still cranking HRs but batting below 250. He is the guy you're talking about when you say still good for a HR or two.
"at about the same OPS"
a 100 point difference in OPS is massive. And removing 2008-2010, his numbers don't get significantly better
.273/.357/.517/874, 122 OPS+. Even then, I am a firm believer that when you look at a career, you look at all of it. I don't disregard Babe Ruth's year with the Braves, or when Willie Mays played for the Mets. Those years happened and we have to take them just as much as we have to take the good onesObp is what i meant. But fine dude if you wanna believe Griffey is overrated be my guess
He absolutely was. Like I said pefore, people try to lump him in with the Willie Mays, Babe Ruths, Hank Aarons, and Ty Cobbs of baseball, when he's more comparable to the George Bretts, Chipper Jones, and Wade Boggs of the baseball world. All great, first ballot tier Hall of Famers in their own rights. But just not tippy top inner circle GOAT among GOATs Types. Now, if you'd like to talk about the single most underrated player in history, may I introduce you to Mel Ott?
