Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar
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@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DanTheThriller said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@carey_56 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DanTheThriller said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
Seems to be overlooked here, but Utley stole 23 bases ONCE, while Alomar stole over 50 bases TWICE.
Stolen bases really don’t mean much.
I mean a stolen base can prevent a possible double play or turn a regular single into an RBI single, so it is kinda important in that sense.
I’d take Robbie over Chase, not just because I’m a biased Jays fan, but because he’s everything I want in a second baseman: .300 hitter, great glove, and speed.
Stolen bases add almost nothing to a player’s value though. That’s why very few players even attempt stolen bases now, even though they could definitely do it. They just aren’t worth doing.
Utley was a .300 hitter during his prime as well, and was a better defender than Alomar. He was also a better base runner. Not necessarily faster, but just a better base runner.
They were both fantastic players though, and you can’t really go wrong with either one.
The only reason I won a game today was on account of stolen bases, so I really depends upon utilization.
If you don't steal, then you probably get more value out of Chase.
I’m talking about irl, not in the game. It’s incredibly easy to steal bases in MLB The Show lol
Ohhhhhh...yeah, that's a big caveat lol.
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I’m taking early 2000s Alfonso Soriano before either of them
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@tommynachoes said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
I’m taking early 2000s Alfonso Soriano before either of them
You’ll have a worse team then lmao.
Soriano for MLB The Show 20 though please SDS
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@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@tommynachoes said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
I’m taking early 2000s Alfonso Soriano before either of them
You’ll have a worse team then lmao.
Soriano for MLB The Show 20 though please SDS
Hey, early 2000s Alfonso Soriano was a decent second basemen, and had enough pop to cover up any bad fielding
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@tommynachoes said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@tommynachoes said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
I’m taking early 2000s Alfonso Soriano before either of them
You’ll have a worse team then lmao.
Soriano for MLB The Show 20 though please SDS
Hey, early 2000s Alfonso Soriano was a decent second basemen, and had enough pop to cover up any bad fielding
Yeah he wasn’t bad by any means, but he doesn’t compare with utley or alomar.
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@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@tommynachoes said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@tommynachoes said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
I’m taking early 2000s Alfonso Soriano before either of them
You’ll have a worse team then lmao.
Soriano for MLB The Show 20 though please SDS
Hey, early 2000s Alfonso Soriano was a decent second basemen, and had enough pop to cover up any bad fielding
Yeah he wasn’t bad by any means, but he doesn’t compare with utley or alomar.
More power, more speed, more...uh, second base eligible...
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@DanTheThriller said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@tommynachoes said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@tommynachoes said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
I’m taking early 2000s Alfonso Soriano before either of them
You’ll have a worse team then lmao.
Soriano for MLB The Show 20 though please SDS
Hey, early 2000s Alfonso Soriano was a decent second basemen, and had enough pop to cover up any bad fielding
Yeah he wasn’t bad by any means, but he doesn’t compare with utley or alomar.
More power, more speed, more...uh, second base eligible...
Yeah basically lol. Worse overall hitter than the other two, and definitely worse defense.
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@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DanTheThriller said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@tommynachoes said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@tommynachoes said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
I’m taking early 2000s Alfonso Soriano before either of them
You’ll have a worse team then lmao.
Soriano for MLB The Show 20 though please SDS
Hey, early 2000s Alfonso Soriano was a decent second basemen, and had enough pop to cover up any bad fielding
Yeah he wasn’t bad by any means, but he doesn’t compare with utley or alomar.
More power, more speed, more...uh, second base eligible...
Yeah basically lol. Worse overall hitter than the other two, and definitely worse defense.
He's much closer to Utley than Alomar, because Alomar had a GREAT eye.
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That 09 World Series vs the Yankees it seemed like Utley went deep every at bat. Peak Utley was scary. Alomar had the better career, but I think Utley had the better peak.
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@DanTheThriller said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DanTheThriller said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@tommynachoes said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@tommynachoes said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
I’m taking early 2000s Alfonso Soriano before either of them
You’ll have a worse team then lmao.
Soriano for MLB The Show 20 though please SDS
Hey, early 2000s Alfonso Soriano was a decent second basemen, and had enough pop to cover up any bad fielding
Yeah he wasn’t bad by any means, but he doesn’t compare with utley or alomar.
More power, more speed, more...uh, second base eligible...
Yeah basically lol. Worse overall hitter than the other two, and definitely worse defense.
He's much closer to Utley than Alomar, because Alomar had a GREAT eye.
I mean, during soriano’s time playing 2B he only had a 130 wRC+ one year. Utley had 5 straight years with 134, 130, 150, 134, and 141 wRC+ from 2005-2009.
From 2001-2005, soriano had an average wRC+ of 110.
From 2005-2009, Utley had an average wRC+ of 137. Almost a 30 point gap is quite significant.
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Peak Utley was a monster. He murdered my Giants, even in his age 84 season when he was relegated to PH duties.
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@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@tommynachoes said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@tommynachoes said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
I’m taking early 2000s Alfonso Soriano before either of them
You’ll have a worse team then lmao.
Soriano for MLB The Show 20 though please SDS
Hey, early 2000s Alfonso Soriano was a decent second basemen, and had enough pop to cover up any bad fielding
Yeah he wasn’t bad by any means, but he doesn’t compare with utley or alomar.
Oh hell no. For the sake of the post, I probably take Utley. Nothing against alomar, I just feel like prime Utley was the better player
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@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DanTheThriller said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DanTheThriller said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@tommynachoes said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@tommynachoes said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
I’m taking early 2000s Alfonso Soriano before either of them
You’ll have a worse team then lmao.
Soriano for MLB The Show 20 though please SDS
Hey, early 2000s Alfonso Soriano was a decent second basemen, and had enough pop to cover up any bad fielding
Yeah he wasn’t bad by any means, but he doesn’t compare with utley or alomar.
More power, more speed, more...uh, second base eligible...
Yeah basically lol. Worse overall hitter than the other two, and definitely worse defense.
He's much closer to Utley than Alomar, because Alomar had a GREAT eye.
I mean, during soriano’s time playing 2B he only had a 130 wRC+ one year. Utley had 5 straight years with 134, 130, 150, 134, and 141 wRC+ from 2005-2009.
From 2001-2005, soriano had an average wRC+ of 110.
From 2005-2009, Utley had an average wRC+ of 137. Almost a 30 point gap is quite significant.
From 02-07, Soriano has a wRC+ of 119, despite seasons of 98 and 108 in there.
Excluding them, his wRC+ was 127: you used a...peculiar sample size for your comparison, excluding a 129 and 122 season, while being sure to add a 93 season.
That strikes me as a bit disingenuous.
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@DanTheThriller said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DanTheThriller said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DanTheThriller said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@tommynachoes said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@tommynachoes said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
I’m taking early 2000s Alfonso Soriano before either of them
You’ll have a worse team then lmao.
Soriano for MLB The Show 20 though please SDS
Hey, early 2000s Alfonso Soriano was a decent second basemen, and had enough pop to cover up any bad fielding
Yeah he wasn’t bad by any means, but he doesn’t compare with utley or alomar.
More power, more speed, more...uh, second base eligible...
Yeah basically lol. Worse overall hitter than the other two, and definitely worse defense.
He's much closer to Utley than Alomar, because Alomar had a GREAT eye.
I mean, during soriano’s time playing 2B he only had a 130 wRC+ one year. Utley had 5 straight years with 134, 130, 150, 134, and 141 wRC+ from 2005-2009.
From 2001-2005, soriano had an average wRC+ of 110.
From 2005-2009, Utley had an average wRC+ of 137. Almost a 30 point gap is quite significant.
From 02-07, Soriano has a wRC+ of 119, despite seasons of 98 and 108 in there.
Excluding them, his wRC+ was 127: you used a...peculiar sample size for your comparison, excluding a 129 and 122 season, while being sure to add a 93 season.
That strikes me as a bit disingenuous.
I used the years he played 2B, not outfield.
Since this thread is about second basemen.
Plus, both of the periods I used were 5 years. Soriano played outfield full time starting in 2006, so that’s why I didn’t include that year onwards. Only his time playing 2B compared to Utley playing 2B.
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@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DanTheThriller said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DanTheThriller said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DanTheThriller said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@tommynachoes said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@tommynachoes said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
I’m taking early 2000s Alfonso Soriano before either of them
You’ll have a worse team then lmao.
Soriano for MLB The Show 20 though please SDS
Hey, early 2000s Alfonso Soriano was a decent second basemen, and had enough pop to cover up any bad fielding
Yeah he wasn’t bad by any means, but he doesn’t compare with utley or alomar.
More power, more speed, more...uh, second base eligible...
Yeah basically lol. Worse overall hitter than the other two, and definitely worse defense.
He's much closer to Utley than Alomar, because Alomar had a GREAT eye.
I mean, during soriano’s time playing 2B he only had a 130 wRC+ one year. Utley had 5 straight years with 134, 130, 150, 134, and 141 wRC+ from 2005-2009.
From 2001-2005, soriano had an average wRC+ of 110.
From 2005-2009, Utley had an average wRC+ of 137. Almost a 30 point gap is quite significant.
From 02-07, Soriano has a wRC+ of 119, despite seasons of 98 and 108 in there.
Excluding them, his wRC+ was 127: you used a...peculiar sample size for your comparison, excluding a 129 and 122 season, while being sure to add a 93 season.
That strikes me as a bit disingenuous.
I used the years he played 2B, not outfield.
Since this thread is about second basemen.
Plus, both of the periods I used were 5 years. Soriano played outfield full time starting in 2006, so that’s why I didn’t include that year onwards. Only his time playing 2B compared to Utley playing 2B.
Use his peak years, not position years: otherwise, it's negatively subjective.
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@DanTheThriller said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DanTheThriller said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DanTheThriller said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DanTheThriller said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@tommynachoes said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@tommynachoes said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
I’m taking early 2000s Alfonso Soriano before either of them
You’ll have a worse team then lmao.
Soriano for MLB The Show 20 though please SDS
Hey, early 2000s Alfonso Soriano was a decent second basemen, and had enough pop to cover up any bad fielding
Yeah he wasn’t bad by any means, but he doesn’t compare with utley or alomar.
More power, more speed, more...uh, second base eligible...
Yeah basically lol. Worse overall hitter than the other two, and definitely worse defense.
He's much closer to Utley than Alomar, because Alomar had a GREAT eye.
I mean, during soriano’s time playing 2B he only had a 130 wRC+ one year. Utley had 5 straight years with 134, 130, 150, 134, and 141 wRC+ from 2005-2009.
From 2001-2005, soriano had an average wRC+ of 110.
From 2005-2009, Utley had an average wRC+ of 137. Almost a 30 point gap is quite significant.
From 02-07, Soriano has a wRC+ of 119, despite seasons of 98 and 108 in there.
Excluding them, his wRC+ was 127: you used a...peculiar sample size for your comparison, excluding a 129 and 122 season, while being sure to add a 93 season.
That strikes me as a bit disingenuous.
I used the years he played 2B, not outfield.
Since this thread is about second basemen.
Plus, both of the periods I used were 5 years. Soriano played outfield full time starting in 2006, so that’s why I didn’t include that year onwards. Only his time playing 2B compared to Utley playing 2B.
Use his peak years, not position years: otherwise, it's negatively subjective.
I mean, Soriano came into this discussion because tommynachos said he’d take his early 2000’s years, which is when he played second base. We are comparing him as a second baseman with utley as a second baseman, not Soriano as an outfielder vs utley as a second baseman.
When Soriano played second base, he had a couple good years but wasn’t anything special. It doesn’t matter if his hitting got better later in his career, what matters in this conversation is what he did as a second baseman.
I don’t see how it’s unfair to compare a full time second baseman with another full time second baseman. I used the stats he put up at second base. If he continued to play second during 2006-2007, I would’ve included those. But he was an outfielder then. Seems perfectly reasonable and acceptable to me
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@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DanTheThriller said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DanTheThriller said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DanTheThriller said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DanTheThriller said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@tommynachoes said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@tommynachoes said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
I’m taking early 2000s Alfonso Soriano before either of them
You’ll have a worse team then lmao.
Soriano for MLB The Show 20 though please SDS
Hey, early 2000s Alfonso Soriano was a decent second basemen, and had enough pop to cover up any bad fielding
Yeah he wasn’t bad by any means, but he doesn’t compare with utley or alomar.
More power, more speed, more...uh, second base eligible...
Yeah basically lol. Worse overall hitter than the other two, and definitely worse defense.
He's much closer to Utley than Alomar, because Alomar had a GREAT eye.
I mean, during soriano’s time playing 2B he only had a 130 wRC+ one year. Utley had 5 straight years with 134, 130, 150, 134, and 141 wRC+ from 2005-2009.
From 2001-2005, soriano had an average wRC+ of 110.
From 2005-2009, Utley had an average wRC+ of 137. Almost a 30 point gap is quite significant.
From 02-07, Soriano has a wRC+ of 119, despite seasons of 98 and 108 in there.
Excluding them, his wRC+ was 127: you used a...peculiar sample size for your comparison, excluding a 129 and 122 season, while being sure to add a 93 season.
That strikes me as a bit disingenuous.
I used the years he played 2B, not outfield.
Since this thread is about second basemen.
Plus, both of the periods I used were 5 years. Soriano played outfield full time starting in 2006, so that’s why I didn’t include that year onwards. Only his time playing 2B compared to Utley playing 2B.
Use his peak years, not position years: otherwise, it's negatively subjective.
I mean, Soriano came into this discussion because tommynachos said he’d take his early 2000’s years, which is when he played second base. We are comparing him as a second baseman with utley as a second baseman, not Soriano as an outfielder vs utley as a second baseman.
When Soriano played second base, he had a couple good years but wasn’t anything special. It doesn’t matter if his hitting got better later in his career, what matters in this conversation is what he did as a second baseman.
I don’t see how it’s unfair to compare a full time second baseman with another full time second baseman. I used the stats he put up at second base. If he continued to play second during 2006-2007, I would’ve included those. But he was an outfielder then. Seems perfectly reasonable and acceptable to me
Every player has offensive and defensive components, and no one limited his peak years to when he was a F/T 2B.
He improved as a hitter and then switched positions, because he was always a rough 2B.
Alomar and Utley were always primary 2Bs, so it's not an apple-to-apples comparison and doesn't make sense to ignore Soriano's unique situation.
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@DanTheThriller said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DanTheThriller said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DanTheThriller said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DanTheThriller said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DanTheThriller said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@tommynachoes said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
@tommynachoes said in Peak Chase Utley or Peak Robbie Alomar:
I’m taking early 2000s Alfonso Soriano before either of them
You’ll have a worse team then lmao.
Soriano for MLB The Show 20 though please SDS
Hey, early 2000s Alfonso Soriano was a decent second basemen, and had enough pop to cover up any bad fielding
Yeah he wasn’t bad by any means, but he doesn’t compare with utley or alomar.
More power, more speed, more...uh, second base eligible...
Yeah basically lol. Worse overall hitter than the other two, and definitely worse defense.
He's much closer to Utley than Alomar, because Alomar had a GREAT eye.
I mean, during soriano’s time playing 2B he only had a 130 wRC+ one year. Utley had 5 straight years with 134, 130, 150, 134, and 141 wRC+ from 2005-2009.
From 2001-2005, soriano had an average wRC+ of 110.
From 2005-2009, Utley had an average wRC+ of 137. Almost a 30 point gap is quite significant.
From 02-07, Soriano has a wRC+ of 119, despite seasons of 98 and 108 in there.
Excluding them, his wRC+ was 127: you used a...peculiar sample size for your comparison, excluding a 129 and 122 season, while being sure to add a 93 season.
That strikes me as a bit disingenuous.
I used the years he played 2B, not outfield.
Since this thread is about second basemen.
Plus, both of the periods I used were 5 years. Soriano played outfield full time starting in 2006, so that’s why I didn’t include that year onwards. Only his time playing 2B compared to Utley playing 2B.
Use his peak years, not position years: otherwise, it's negatively subjective.
I mean, Soriano came into this discussion because tommynachos said he’d take his early 2000’s years, which is when he played second base. We are comparing him as a second baseman with utley as a second baseman, not Soriano as an outfielder vs utley as a second baseman.
When Soriano played second base, he had a couple good years but wasn’t anything special. It doesn’t matter if his hitting got better later in his career, what matters in this conversation is what he did as a second baseman.
I don’t see how it’s unfair to compare a full time second baseman with another full time second baseman. I used the stats he put up at second base. If he continued to play second during 2006-2007, I would’ve included those. But he was an outfielder then. Seems perfectly reasonable and acceptable to me
Every player has offensive and defensive components, and no one limited his peak years to when he was a F/T 2B.
He improved as a hitter and then switched positions, because he was always a rough 2B.
Alomar and Utley were always primary 2Bs, so it's not an apple-to-apples comparison and doesn't make sense to ignore Soriano's unique situation.
Agree to disagree then.
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A admin locked this topic on
