Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...
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@mjfc_363 said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
Mark Lemke, Steve Avery, David Freese, Steve Pearce. Plent of guys win post season awards and don’t turn into franchise players. Those are just off the top of my head without the google machine. I’m not buying what you’re selling bro. Been watching baseball for 40 years.
I never said he was a franchise player, but they gave up 2 things that they desperately need THIS year and last, power in Voit and a dynamic OF who is showcasing 5 tools in Arozarena.
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@mubby_33 said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
@DoIHearBossMusic said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
@GrxxnLikeGator said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
Voit was dealt because he is a poor defender and didn’t project well offensively for Busch III (or anywhere except Yankee Stadium). The Cards did get their best reliever (over last two years) in return.
Nothing Arozarena is doing is remotely sustainable. I’ve seen tons of guys in lifetime do well in first 100-200 major league at bats. He’s going to fall. Soon. And they got one of the best lefty arms in the minors in return. Even TB didn’t think he’d do this. It took lots of failing of the many guys ahead of him on depth chart to fail.
Mo is a top 5 exec in the league.
LOL good one. He does juuuust enough to keep them competitive. He doesn't play to win though, just enough to keep the sheep fans crossing the turnstiles. Dewitt is profit first, win 2nd. 2020 is a bad reminder on just how many bad moves Moe made and they blew up in his face. Overrated
I agree OP. Scouting has been suspect for years. He has also put way to much stock in veterans that are making way more than their production indicates. It's almost as if he has thrown out advanced metrics and instead gone with his gut and keeping around those feel good story players but who really aren't that great.
Thank you, so many fans put on their homer glasses and can't see problems in their org. Many will say 'oh they've been competitive almost every year' but like my man Herm Edwards said, you play to WIN the game. The org makes little moves here JUST to treat water and save budget, but relies on the random nature of playoffs and hope they get in and catch a win streak. Yes, scouting is suspect and the dumb contracts he has given out have lessened their talent. Giving those dumb contracts to Carpenter and Fowler are why they no longer have Ozuna, Voit and Arozarena
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@GrxxnLikeGator said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
Voit was dealt because he is a poor defender and didn’t project well offensively for Busch III (or anywhere except Yankee Stadium). The Cards did get their best reliever (over last two years) in return.
Nothing Arozarena is doing is remotely sustainable. I’ve seen tons of guys in lifetime do well in first 100-200 major league at bats. He’s going to fall. Soon. And they got one of the best lefty arms in the minors in return. Even TB didn’t think he’d do this. It took lots of failing of the many guys ahead of him on depth chart to fail.
Mo is a top 5 exec in the league.
Arozarena has hit at all levels. Not sure how you say what he is doing is not sustainable. .320-.330 batting average 35-40 homers 110-120 RBI’s 15-25 sb’s are certainly sustainable. Based on his numbers coming up. Sounds like sour grapes if you ask me.
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@mjfc_363 said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
Mark Lemke, Steve Avery, David Freese, Steve Pearce. Plent of guys win post season awards and don’t turn into franchise players. Those are just off the top of my head without the google machine. I’m not buying what you’re selling bro. Been watching baseball for 40 years.
FYI Mark Lemke was a franchise second baseman for the Braves throughout the 90’s. Great glove and serviceable bat. And he did the small things like bunting and was a great base runner. Steve Avery was a great pitcher for 5 years with those same Braves before he sold his soul for free agency and left the organization and moved to Boston where they promptly used him the wrong way and destroyed his pitching shoulder by changing his delivery. But yeah!!!
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@KILLERPRESENCE4 said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
@GrxxnLikeGator said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
Voit was dealt because he is a poor defender and didn’t project well offensively for Busch III (or anywhere except Yankee Stadium). The Cards did get their best reliever (over last two years) in return.
Nothing Arozarena is doing is remotely sustainable. I’ve seen tons of guys in lifetime do well in first 100-200 major league at bats. He’s going to fall. Soon. And they got one of the best lefty arms in the minors in return. Even TB didn’t think he’d do this. It took lots of failing of the many guys ahead of him on depth chart to fail.
Mo is a top 5 exec in the league.
Arozarena has hit at all levels. Not sure how you say what he is doing is not sustainable. .320-.330 batting average 35-40 homers 110-120 RBI’s 15-25 sb’s are certainly sustainable. Based on his numbers coming up. Sounds like sour grapes if you ask me.
Sour grapes? Nope. Just know what stats to look at. Look at ISO. Look at HR/FB. Compare what he did in the minors. The numbers you are giving him make him a top 5 player in baseball. He won’t even be the best OF on the Rays next year.
I’m not mad at all. I’m happy for him. I’m happy for the deal they made. I was a big Liberatore fan already. I also understand how the front office had to operate. They aren’t in a window to win now. That will be very evident when they re-sign Molina and Wainwright this off-season. They’re remaining competitive while allowing two of their best players of the last 30 years to finish their careers with the team. I’m fine with that.
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@KILLERPRESENCE4 said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
@mjfc_363 said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
Mark Lemke, Steve Avery, David Freese, Steve Pearce. Plent of guys win post season awards and don’t turn into franchise players. Those are just off the top of my head without the google machine. I’m not buying what you’re selling bro. Been watching baseball for 40 years.
FYI Mark Lemke was a franchise second baseman for the Braves throughout the 90’s. Great glove and serviceable bat. And he did the small things like bunting and was a great base runner. Steve Avery was a great pitcher for 5 years with those same Braves before he sold his soul for free agency and left the organization and moved to Boston where they promptly used him the wrong way and destroyed his pitching shoulder by changing his delivery. But yeah!!!
Dude what are you smoking??
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@KILLERPRESENCE4 said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
@mjfc_363 said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
Mark Lemke, Steve Avery, David Freese, Steve Pearce. Plent of guys win post season awards and don’t turn into franchise players. Those are just off the top of my head without the google machine. I’m not buying what you’re selling bro. Been watching baseball for 40 years.
FYI Mark Lemke was a franchise second baseman for the Braves throughout the 90’s. Great glove and serviceable bat. And he did the small things like bunting and was a great base runner. Steve Avery was a great pitcher for 5 years with those same Braves before he sold his soul for free agency and left the organization and moved to Boston where they promptly used him the wrong way and destroyed his pitching shoulder by changing his delivery. But yeah!!!
Mark Lemke was a career .246 hitter with 32 home runs.......in his CAREER!!! Steve Avery was 96-83 and only once had an ERA under 3. Only had double digit wins 4 times in his career. He broke 200 innings a total of 3 times and that’s in an era when pitchers threw more innings.
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@nymets1987 said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
@TheMoShow__ said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
@raesONE said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
I honestly think Voit is a one year wonder. Arozarena way too early to tell.
voit has contributed for the past 2 years. hes only going to get better imo
How does he get better? Mike trout? Guy led the league in homers
overall getting better dingus
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@DoIHearBossMusic said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
@mubby_33 said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
@DoIHearBossMusic said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
@GrxxnLikeGator said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
Voit was dealt because he is a poor defender and didn’t project well offensively for Busch III (or anywhere except Yankee Stadium). The Cards did get their best reliever (over last two years) in return.
Nothing Arozarena is doing is remotely sustainable. I’ve seen tons of guys in lifetime do well in first 100-200 major league at bats. He’s going to fall. Soon. And they got one of the best lefty arms in the minors in return. Even TB didn’t think he’d do this. It took lots of failing of the many guys ahead of him on depth chart to fail.
Mo is a top 5 exec in the league.
LOL good one. He does juuuust enough to keep them competitive. He doesn't play to win though, just enough to keep the sheep fans crossing the turnstiles. Dewitt is profit first, win 2nd. 2020 is a bad reminder on just how many bad moves Moe made and they blew up in his face. Overrated
I agree OP. Scouting has been suspect for years. He has also put way to much stock in veterans that are making way more than their production indicates. It's almost as if he has thrown out advanced metrics and instead gone with his gut and keeping around those feel good story players but who really aren't that great.
Thank you, so many fans put on their homer glasses and can't see problems in their org. Many will say 'oh they've been competitive almost every year' but like my man Herm Edwards said, you play to WIN the game. The org makes little moves here JUST to treat water and save budget, but relies on the random nature of playoffs and hope they get in and catch a win streak. Yes, scouting is suspect and the dumb contracts he has given out have lessened their talent. Giving those dumb contracts to Carpenter and Fowler are why they no longer have Ozuna, Voit and Arozarena
I live in Illinois in the middle of Cardinal and Cubs fans. I not a fan of either but j love baseball. I was at game 7 in 2011 when the Cards won it all, it was crazy. But you look at that 2011 roster, comprised of alot of homegrown talent and a couple key trades and that team was phenomenal. Goldy is really the only major acquisition in the last four years, unless you count overpaying for Fowler. They have found some diamonds in the rough but they are more platoon guys as opposed to everyday regulars.
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@KILLERPRESENCE4 said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
@GrxxnLikeGator said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
Voit was dealt because he is a poor defender and didn’t project well offensively for Busch III (or anywhere except Yankee Stadium). The Cards did get their best reliever (over last two years) in return.
Nothing Arozarena is doing is remotely sustainable. I’ve seen tons of guys in lifetime do well in first 100-200 major league at bats. He’s going to fall. Soon. And they got one of the best lefty arms in the minors in return. Even TB didn’t think he’d do this. It took lots of failing of the many guys ahead of him on depth chart to fail.
Mo is a top 5 exec in the league.
Arozarena has hit at all levels. Not sure how you say what he is doing is not sustainable. .320-.330 batting average 35-40 homers 110-120 RBI’s 15-25 sb’s are certainly sustainable. Based on his numbers coming up. Sounds like sour grapes if you ask me.
I think that's a bit too generous, especially on the power, but I can absolutely see him being a .280-.300 hitter that goes 20/20. A bit better version of Tommy Pham, which is certainly something valuable.
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@mjfc_363 said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
@KILLERPRESENCE4 said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
@mjfc_363 said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
Mark Lemke, Steve Avery, David Freese, Steve Pearce. Plent of guys win post season awards and don’t turn into franchise players. Those are just off the top of my head without the google machine. I’m not buying what you’re selling bro. Been watching baseball for 40 years.
FYI Mark Lemke was a franchise second baseman for the Braves throughout the 90’s. Great glove and serviceable bat. And he did the small things like bunting and was a great base runner. Steve Avery was a great pitcher for 5 years with those same Braves before he sold his soul for free agency and left the organization and moved to Boston where they promptly used him the wrong way and destroyed his pitching shoulder by changing his delivery. But yeah!!!
Mark Lemke was a career .246 hitter with 32 home runs.......in his CAREER!!! Steve Avery was 96-83 and only once had an ERA under 3. Only had double digit wins 4 times in his career. He broke 200 innings a total of 3 times and that’s in an era when pitchers threw more innings.
I'll give you Lemke, you are right on him, but you are looking at all the wrong stats on Steve Avery.
I'm not saying he was some goon, he wasn't, but quoting wins is laughable. You quote ERA under 3, but the real stat that you are missing is he had a better then average ERA from 1991 to 1994. He was decent, certainly not a career to sneeze at.
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Stiiiiill killin it Aroz, dude
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@eatyum said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
@mjfc_363 said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
@KILLERPRESENCE4 said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
@mjfc_363 said in Rays and Yanks need to send Cardinals a fruit basket...:
Mark Lemke, Steve Avery, David Freese, Steve Pearce. Plent of guys win post season awards and don’t turn into franchise players. Those are just off the top of my head without the google machine. I’m not buying what you’re selling bro. Been watching baseball for 40 years.
FYI Mark Lemke was a franchise second baseman for the Braves throughout the 90’s. Great glove and serviceable bat. And he did the small things like bunting and was a great base runner. Steve Avery was a great pitcher for 5 years with those same Braves before he sold his soul for free agency and left the organization and moved to Boston where they promptly used him the wrong way and destroyed his pitching shoulder by changing his delivery. But yeah!!!
Mark Lemke was a career .246 hitter with 32 home runs.......in his CAREER!!! Steve Avery was 96-83 and only once had an ERA under 3. Only had double digit wins 4 times in his career. He broke 200 innings a total of 3 times and that’s in an era when pitchers threw more innings.
I'll give you Lemke, you are right on him, but you are looking at all the wrong stats on Steve Avery.
I'm not saying he was some goon, he wasn't, but quoting wins is laughable. You quote ERA under 3, but the real stat that you are missing is he had a better then average ERA from 1991 to 1994. He was decent, certainly not a career to sneeze at.
ERAs were inflated in the 90s/steroid era as well.
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