MLBPA rejects mediator
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@ncstatehokie_mlbts said in MLBPA rejects mediator:
@ikasnu_psn said in MLBPA rejects mediator:
@killerpresence4 said in MLBPA rejects mediator:
If you guys don’t believe me that the owners are not the problems, here is a sobering story about what it’s like to be a minor leaguer!!! The owners should be ashamed of themselves. Just because we have guys out there making tens of millions that doesn’t even begin to offset the the tens of thousands of minor leaguers who suffer from the abuses of unchecked power by the owners. This work stoppage should not end until this situation is sorted out. There are too many valuable lives being affected by ownership greed.
I don't think anyone is arguing you against the owners. I feel pretty much every baseball fan is pro-player anti-owner.
Yeah I remember hearing about the food they would provide in the As minor system and it was literally a couple pieces of bread with a tiny piece of meat and a slice of cheese. This is imo where the league minimum needs to be, minimum 100k/season if you're in any part of the MLB farm system. Players making less than minimum wage is just dumb
I think what you just described is a sandwich. Also, why should a minor leaguer automatically make 100k? Those guys that just got drafted haven't proven anything professionally yet? Also, no one is forcing these guys to play a game for a living.
If they don't want to take the risk or receive low pay for a little while then they are free to get another job like most other Americans.
Lol my point being the sandwich was a joke to be considered a meal for someone who is expelling far more energy than a tiny sammich is gonna provide.
The reason minor leaguers need a significant pay bump is because they are training constantly. During the season, plays should be able to focus soley on baseball and preparation and not worry about their finances. In large cities 100k is a must because everything surrounding it is expensive. Beyond that these players aren't seeing the full 100k anyway, travel fees, agent fees, taxes, equipment fees, you're looking at maybe 60k when all is said and done.
Let players focus on themselves and their game, and if it doesn't pan out, set them up for the future. Every organization can easily afford this.
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@killerpresence4 said in MLBPA rejects mediator:
If you guys don’t believe me that the owners are not the problems, here is a sobering story about what it’s like to be a minor leaguer!!! The owners should be ashamed of themselves. Just because we have guys out there making tens of millions that doesn’t even begin to offset the the tens of thousands of minor leaguers who suffer from the abuses of unchecked power by the owners. This work stoppage should not end until this situation is sorted out. There are too many valuable lives being affected by ownership greed and malfeasance. I’m sorry but I’m passionate about this having first hand knowledge of this as a child of a career minor leaguer. And before you call me some woke nut job I’m a capitalist not a communist. What is going on here is not capitalism this is the epitome of a monopoly and maybe congress should strip MLB of their antitrust exemption to level the playing field.
I agree. The treatment of minor league players has been an utter disgrace for years. I get the sentiment of "play better if you don't want to be a minor league player" but there is a concept of basic decency that should be applied. I will also put blame on players as they could have forced owners hands years ago to provide better conditions for minor league players via collective bargaining negotiations.
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@killerpresence4 said in MLBPA rejects mediator:
Yes about 85k difference. However most of these players are being paid less than that anywhere between 8-14k a year.
I agree that is awful, but I'll ask the question again. What in the proposal by the MLBPA to the owners is going to combat that? I mean there could be provisions in there that I don't know about but thus far I have not seen any mention of it. But so far I see proposals that help the major leaguers and the top 100 prospects but not much else.
It's great to be angry at the owners for the poor treatment of minor leaguers. I am glad that the owners are providing housing for those players now. But unless the MLBPA is pushing for a salary floor for minor leaguers then it is a moot point in discussing these negotiations.
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As a blue collar union boilermaker, it’s hard for me to see the opinion of the owners……or the players for that matter. What some of these guys make in one year could set me up for the rest of my life. Things def need to change.
If I were an owner, I’d dig my heels in until we get a salary cap. This includes a spending floor. Contracts should be no longer than two years moving forward.
If I were a player, I’d demand abolishing the three batter minimum. I’d also demand the DH become universal.
As a fan, I’m ok with never watching a game again until those objectives are achieved. Just my opinion and my opinion means nothing.
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@mjfc_363_psn said in MLBPA rejects mediator:
As a blue collar union boilermaker, it’s hard for me to see the opinion of the owners……or the players for that matter. What some of these guys make in one year could set me up for the rest of my life. Things def need to change.
If I were an owner, I’d dig my heels in until we get a salary cap. This includes a spending floor. Contracts should be no longer than two years moving forward.
If I were a player, I’d demand abolishing the three batter minimum. I’d also demand the DH become universal.
As a fan, I’m ok with never watching a game again until those objectives are achieved. Just my opinion and my opinion means nothing.
The UDH has already been agreed upon
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@mjfc_363_psn said in MLBPA rejects mediator:
As a blue collar union boilermaker, it’s hard for me to see the opinion of the owners……or the players for that matter. What some of these guys make in one year could set me up for the rest of my life. Things def need to change.
If I were an owner, I’d dig my heels in until we get a salary cap. This includes a spending floor. Contracts should be no longer than two years moving forward.
If I were a player, I’d demand abolishing the three batter minimum. I’d also demand the DH become universal.
As a fan, I’m ok with never watching a game again until those objectives are achieved. Just my opinion and my opinion means nothing.
You're a Cardinals fan, and a human so your opinion definitely means something. Especially when you state it like such.
Glad everyone is as passionate about this as I am, whether it be in favor of better treatment towards Minor leaguers which I am, or just the desire to see baseball (I too hope Waino and Yadi break the record). I also hope Pujols gets to 700 though with the covid shortened season and now this, it's becoming pretty hopeless.
Bottom line, I just wish both the players union and the owners would take the fans who pay their salaries into account. If we could ever mobilize and strike, they would cease to make millions and billions. But we love the game too much.
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@killerpresence4 said in MLBPA rejects mediator:
@mjfc_363_psn said in MLBPA rejects mediator:
As a blue collar union boilermaker, it’s hard for me to see the opinion of the owners……or the players for that matter. What some of these guys make in one year could set me up for the rest of my life. Things def need to change.
If I were an owner, I’d dig my heels in until we get a salary cap. This includes a spending floor. Contracts should be no longer than two years moving forward.
If I were a player, I’d demand abolishing the three batter minimum. I’d also demand the DH become universal.
As a fan, I’m ok with never watching a game again until those objectives are achieved. Just my opinion and my opinion means nothing.
The UDH has already been agreed upon
The only thing unfortunately
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@dolenz_psn said in MLBPA rejects mediator:
It's hard to have sympathy for either side. I know the owners are greedy but when a guys in their early 20's are making the league minimum, which is over a half million dollars, it is hard to empathize with them.
Let's look at Max Scherzer's most recent twitter post
"We want a system where threshold and penalties don’t function as caps, allows younger players to realize more of their market value, makes service time manipulation a thing of the past, and eliminate tanking as a winning strategy."
Let me ask a question then if there is no cap or penalties then how does that make the game more competitive? The big market teams will just spend ridiculous amounts of money and get all of the talent while small market teams are left to flounder. Isn't that why they tank now because they can't compete with teams that spend 200 million plus, like the Dodgers, Mets and Yankees? If young players hit free agency sooner then the best ones will all just gravitate to the big spenders.
Seems like what the players are pushing for will just widen the gap between the top tier teams and the bottom tier teams.
I am not pulling for the owners either but Max's statement just seems like it would cause more issues.
At this point it’s just as much the smaller markets fault as it is the bigger teams. Teams like the Marlins have absolutely no interest in winning they just want to make money. You hear it all the time. “We can’t afford them” they said it about 5 times for 5 different high level players. If you aren’t willing to field a competitive team for your fans you don’t deserve to even have a team, let alone a full stadium or have players looking to join yours.
The cardinals have had no problem staying relevant and attracting superstars while the NFL team down the street didn’t, One was willing to spend and remain competitive, while the former STL rams are now playing for a Super Bowl in a different city, it takes money to make money. Some owners want to spent it some don’t, players shouldn't be punished inside deadweight orgz that have no interest in winning “some piece of metal” as the commish put it, they just want to hold that player there as long as possible manipulate his service time and sell as many jerseys as possible.
The Padres started to spend and look what happened, three years ago they were the team people choose to boost against in this game 99% of the time and now the attract $100,000,000 players.
Pretty soon people will need to decide if they want to continue to spend money and support teams with ownership that don’t want to win or move on to something else because unfortunately relegation will never come to North American sports. Which means the natural course of teams dying through terrible ownership will never unfold. Just more profit sharing and support from teams willing to spend closer to the profit line.
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@charterbus_psn said in MLBPA rejects mediator:
@dolenz_psn said in MLBPA rejects mediator:
It's hard to have sympathy for either side. I know the owners are greedy but when a guys in their early 20's are making the league minimum, which is over a half million dollars, it is hard to empathize with them.
Let's look at Max Scherzer's most recent twitter post
"We want a system where threshold and penalties don’t function as caps, allows younger players to realize more of their market value, makes service time manipulation a thing of the past, and eliminate tanking as a winning strategy."
Let me ask a question then if there is no cap or penalties then how does that make the game more competitive? The big market teams will just spend ridiculous amounts of money and get all of the talent while small market teams are left to flounder. Isn't that why they tank now because they can't compete with teams that spend 200 million plus, like the Dodgers, Mets and Yankees? If young players hit free agency sooner then the best ones will all just gravitate to the big spenders.
Seems like what the players are pushing for will just widen the gap between the top tier teams and the bottom tier teams.
I am not pulling for the owners either but Max's statement just seems like it would cause more issues.
At this point it’s just as much the smaller markets fault as it is the bigger teams. Teams like the Marlins have absolutely no interest in winning they just want to make money. You hear it all the time. “We can’t afford them” they said it about 5 times for 5 different high level players. If you aren’t willing to field a competitive team for your fans you don’t deserve to even have a team, let alone a full stadium or have players looking to join yours.
The cardinals have had no problem staying relevant and attracting superstars while the NFL team down the street didn’t, One was willing to spend and remain competitive, while the former STL rams are now playing for a Super Bowl in a different city, it takes money to make money. Some owners want to spent it some don’t, players shouldn't be punished inside deadweight orgz that have no interest in winning “some piece of metal” as the commish put it, they just want to hold that player there as long as possible manipulate his service time and sell as many jerseys as possible.
The Padres started to spend and look what happened, three years ago they were the team people choose to boost against in this game 99% of the time and now the attract $100,000,000 players.
Pretty soon people will need to decide if they want to continue to spend money and support teams with ownership that don’t want to win or move on to something else because unfortunately relegation will never come to North American sports. Which means the natural course of teams dying through terrible ownership will never unfold. Just more profit sharing and support from teams willing to spend closer to the profit line.
Revenue sharing fixes the whole small market vs big market argument. Tanking is an effective strategy because not only does it allow those teams to draft high but also allows for the development of those players to become effective major league ball players. 4 of the last 6 World Series winners tanked their way to a world championship. Royals, Cubs, Astro’s and now the Braves, although the Braves tanked for a lot less time than the other teams. Problem with revenue sharing teams like the Dodgers, Red Sox, Yankees, and even to certain extent Cubs all don’t want to share their revenue. So they fudge the numbers to have to give as little as possible. They use bogus accounting techniques to shelter their revenue. These are the owners who should be subject to the most scrutiny. If you get these [censored] offs to pony up their portion of the bill legitimately then the smaller market teams don’t have to resort to “tanking” to eventually compete. But no one can say that tanking is not effective because it has proven to be just that, the most effective way to compete against the giant markets.
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First thing they need to do to stop tanking is not give last place teams the highest draft picks. Add some randomness to it and/or do a snake style draft where the draft order reverses every round. Right now the draft, to me, seems like the main benefit to tanking so something needs to be done to counteract that.
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@dolenz_psn said in MLBPA rejects mediator:
First thing they need to do to stop tanking is not give last place teams the highest draft picks. Add some randomness to it and/or do a snake style draft where the draft order reverses every round. Right now the draft, to me, seems like the main benefit to tanking so something needs to be done to counteract that.
Strip the first 5 picks and give them to the first 4 teams that missed the postseason and the last pick to the bottom team that made it in.
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@killerpresence4 said in MLBPA rejects mediator:
If you guys don’t believe me that the owners are not the problems, here is a sobering story about what it’s like to be a minor leaguer!!! The owners should be ashamed of themselves. Just because we have guys out there making tens of millions that doesn’t even begin to offset the the tens of thousands of minor leaguers who suffer from the abuses of unchecked power by the owners. This work stoppage should not end until this situation is sorted out. There are too many valuable lives being affected by ownership greed and malfeasance. I’m sorry but I’m passionate about this having first hand knowledge of this as a child of a career minor leaguer. And before you call me some woke nut job I’m a capitalist not a communist. What is going on here is not capitalism this is the epitome of a monopoly and maybe congress should strip MLB of their antitrust exemption to level the playing field.
Minor leagues yes. Major League no. Indentured servants? Why does every baseball fan alive wish they were a MLB player making huge money and gaining fame and glory? I do not feel sorry for any MLB player even if the majority of the problem is the owners greed. They are all greedy and WE pay for it.
The cost of tickets, concessions, jerseys, etc are all astronomical. The average fan cannot even go to a game. I am a Cubs fan and they soak you for everything you have just like all other major market teams. And it isn't just the owners causing these problems.
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@ericulous1_psn said in MLBPA rejects mediator:
@mjfc_363_psn said in MLBPA rejects mediator:
As a blue collar union boilermaker, it’s hard for me to see the opinion of the owners……or the players for that matter. What some of these guys make in one year could set me up for the rest of my life. Things def need to change.
If I were an owner, I’d dig my heels in until we get a salary cap. This includes a spending floor. Contracts should be no longer than two years moving forward.
If I were a player, I’d demand abolishing the three batter minimum. I’d also demand the DH become universal.
As a fan, I’m ok with never watching a game again until those objectives are achieved. Just my opinion and my opinion means nothing.
You're a Cardinals fan, and a human so your opinion definitely means something. Especially when you state it like such.
Glad everyone is as passionate about this as I am, whether it be in favor of better treatment towards Minor leaguers which I am, or just the desire to see baseball (I too hope Waino and Yadi break the record). I also hope Pujols gets to 700 though with the covid shortened season and now this, it's becoming pretty hopeless.
Bottom line, I just wish both the players union and the owners would take the fans who pay their salaries into account. If we could ever mobilize and strike, they would cease to make millions and billions. But we love the game too much.
Excellent point regarding treatment of minor leaguers. I’m embarrassed that I forgot about that. I love this game but I’m not a fan of what it’s become. Take a middle of the road starting pitcher making 10M/yr. I could set that up and live modestly and CONFORTABLT for the rest of my life on just that one year. It’s just crazy.
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Could you imagine if people argued this vehemently about paying teachers what they deserve instead of athletes?
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@killerpresence4 said in MLBPA rejects mediator:
If you guys don’t believe me that the owners are not the problems, here is a sobering story about what it’s like to be a minor leaguer!!!
So I was a minor league ballplayer in the early to mid 90's and the first thing I will say is it is a choice. Most players know in the first couple of years whether or not if they have the talent to make it to the big club. After that they either choose or don't choose to keep playing. Most choose to play because they love it and because they don't really want to get a real world job, I know I did along with about 20 others from my team. But usually they are forced to quit playing or jump around all over to keep playing and taking less and less money. This isn't all on the owners, it's on the owners, the players and us for contributing to the stardom of players, which in turn makes them believe they are worth $30 million a year.
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I am going to ask this again
We are focusing on the hate for the owners based on the awful salaries of minor leaguers. That is fine and we should be pulling for those players to make more. I don't think anyone disputes that.
BUT, what does it have to do with the current lockout and the negotiations? From everything I have read there is nothing in the MLBPA proposals that touch on this issue. There is talk of service time manipulation and a bonus pool based on the top 100 or so minor leaguers but nothing that seems like it will benefit the rank and file of the minor leagues. MLBPA seems content to fight for the right of the Pro's and the highest level prospects but I don't see them fighting for those lower level minor leaguers. Why is that? Is that not exactly who they should be fighting for?
Of course maybe they are and it is just not being reported but you would think some article would mention it.
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@dolenz_psn said in MLBPA rejects mediator:
I am going to ask this again
We are focusing on the hate for the owners based on the awful salaries of minor leaguers. That is fine and we should be pulling for those players to make more. I don't think anyone disputes that.
BUT, what does it have to do with the current lockout and the negotiations? From everything I have read there is nothing in the MLBPA proposals that touch on this issue. There is talk of service time manipulation and a bonus pool based on the top 100 or so minor leaguers but nothing that seems like it will benefit the rank and file of the minor leagues. MLBPA seems content to fight for the right of the Pro's and the highest level prospects but I don't see them fighting for those lower level minor leaguers. Why is that? Is that not exactly who they should be fighting for?
Of course maybe they are and it is just not being reported but you would think some article would mention it.
I highly doubt big leaguers will ever fight for minor leaguers. With that being said, I feel like there’s enough money for every minor leaguer to make 50k/year. You can survive on that.
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@gixxerryder750 said in MLBPA rejects mediator:
Could you imagine if people argued this vehemently about paying teachers what they deserve instead of athletes?
Dude that would be [censored] amazing. First responders too, volunteer firefighting shouldn't be a requirement.
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@ikasnu_psn said in MLBPA rejects mediator:
Dude that would be [censored] amazing. First responders too, volunteer firefighting shouldn't be a requirement.
And "Forum Posters". We're all technically unpaid content creators. SDS owes us! Let's start a union.
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@arvcpa_psn said in MLBPA rejects mediator:
@ikasnu_psn said in MLBPA rejects mediator:
Dude that would be [censored] amazing. First responders too, volunteer firefighting shouldn't be a requirement.
And "Forum Posters". We're all technically unpaid content creators. SDS owes us! Let's start a union.
I vaguely remember my first official job trying to make unions sound like the worst thing in the world lol
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