Historic Rosters 2021
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@scpnc_psn said in Historic Rosters 2021:
You are doing a great job man, keep it up. I am a stat geek and have made a spreadsheet that calculates mlb the show attributes based on fangraphs.com historical stats and stats+ and baseball references platoon numbers. If you want close to perfect attributes, including vs L and vs R numbers, based on numbers and very little opinion lmk. The stats are a mixture of how the player rated against his peers and how he compared to all time mlb averages from 1900 to current, with 60 being the avg rating, as stated by mlb the show creators. Also my numbers reflect only what that player did for that particular ball club not for their entire career. I can do an entire 40 man roster in less than an hour. If you want some samples lmk. Here is a comparison
For joe judge
Your ratings CR 93 CL89 PR 57. PL 50. SPD 36
My ratings. CR 73. CL 71 PR53. PL58 SPD 76
A 93 and 89 contact rating should be reserved for only the very top tier avg hitters, joe judge +104 avg + rating for his career with twins puts him above avg but no where near the numbers you gave him. Also he he was not slow and had over 200 career steals.
You seem like a guy who likes attention to detail so thought I would put this out there, fully understand if you like your own numbers.I typically base my players on their career numbers and not just what they did for one team. That being said, you may have a different rating baseline than I do for various attributes and you obviously rate Joe Judge differently than I do. That's fine, to each his own rating system.
If you have a spreadsheet of all the attribute ratings for all the players in the MLB since 1900 I'd love to see it.
Joe Judge and his speed is an interesting topic. He did have 213 career steals; however, it was over a 20 year career and he was also caught stealing 93 times. So 43% of the time he was caught stealing. And that doesn't even take into account the number of times he may have been caught stealing from 1916 to 1920 (no numbers available). That doesn't make him a great base stealing threat in my opinion.
I'd say he was quick when he was younger but he slowed down as he got older and his base stealing numbers decreased. As I said I use his entire career to figure out where to rank him so his later career hurt his speed numbers somewhat.
Also, look at Joe Judge's range factor as compared to the entire league's range factor. It puts him at just a little below average. I understand speed isn't necessarily 100% related to range factor but speed certainly plays a part somewhat in range factor.
I could buy an argument that I have him a little slower than perhaps he should be though.
Judge's 159 career triples put him # 42 on the all-time major league list. He ranks # 98 on the all-time list for doubles, with 433 and # 34 on the all-time list for sacrifice hits. His 2352 career hits put him just outside of the top 100 of all time. Based on these rankings I think his contact rating should be very good compared to the other 2700 players in the MLBTS game.
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Speed is a tough attribute, that is why I use the SPD stat from fan graphs that takes in to account more than just sb, it is not perfect but makes your work much easier. I only use batting avg as determining factor for contact rating, and joe judge career batting avg of close to 300 is nice, but the era he played in makes that batting avg much less appealing with many guys hitting well over 300. To get my contact number I use avg+ stat from fangraph which uses a baseline of 100, which measures how good of a hitter a player was as far as avg is concerned compared to the era he played in, joe judge has an avg + of 104, which means he is above avg but certainly not in to the 80s and 90s rating and then I add his actual batting avg in to a formula and compare that to all time mlb avg of .262, which is the batting avg for all players combined from 1900 to current, with a 99 being given to only the top 8 players in the category or .342 in this case. If you give joe judge a 93 and 89, then ty cobb has to be a 115. I try to take out opinion as much as possible, numbers don't lie.
I would suggest you use fangraphs in determining what players to include in the rosters. You can easily look up career WAR ranking numbers any position and team so you don't omit important players, just because they were not big names. For example you have omitted matt Thornton, who is the whitesox alltime war leader as a releiver. If you want to have the best historic roster on the market, you can't have a team's career war leader at a position missing. I understand that you will be adding more players later, but the top guys should be on the first release.
I can get players attributes quickly, all I have to do is list the players I want and copy and paste from fangraphs in to my spreadsheet.
For a player to have attributes in the 80s and 90s he has to be significantly better than his peers. Another example of why you should use spreadsheet to get attributes is for example Kent hrbek, which you have rated as 59 vs R and 49 vs L For contact. Kent has a career avg of 282, well above avg, yet you have him rated as a well below avg hitter. It is just very tough to do attributes without spreadsheet and just eyeballing numbers, And beleive me, I understand how time consuming creating the players are but it becomes even more if you have to guess their attributes. it is cool to have a player that looks just like the player and has very close to the same batting stance, but the backbone of a great roster starts and ends with player attributes and how close they are to their actual performance.
Also imo, it is more important to use stats only for what that player did for that franchise, and not their entire career. If you are putting ken caminiti on the padres, he should be a killer, but he was only a killer for the padres. Padres should benefit from having him crush it with them and the rest of his career should not matter.As you can see, I had some free time during the pandemic LOL. if you need help feel free to ask, my goal is to help you put the most authentic and realistic roster out there.
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my sample attributes Baltimore infield
FLD SPD BRAG STL DISC VIS CL CR PL PR
MURRAY 75 43 15 52 71 64 74 79 75 82
PRATT 66 85 73 23 45 69 72 71 62 50
RIPKEN 89 35 6 32 60 75 68 65 71 69
ROBINSON 99 35 5 50 50 81 67 64 62 60
You can clearly see a huge discrepancy between my numbers and yours, never go with the legend player ratings from mlb the show, they are garbage. They have Cal Ripken at 92 and 98 contact and 83 and 99 power for a guy with a career .277 avg and 21hr/650pa. don't even get me started on del Pratt power ratings of 78 and 84. The attributes you have here are just not a true representation of who these players were, imho. just constructive criticism. once again, very difficult to get true numbers by eyeballing. -
@scpnc_psn said in Historic Rosters 2021:
Speed is a tough attribute, that is why I use the SPD stat from fan graphs that takes in to account more than just sb, it is not perfect but makes your work much easier. I only use batting avg as determining factor for contact rating, and joe judge career batting avg of close to 300 is nice, but the era he played in makes that batting avg much less appealing with many guys hitting well over 300. To get my contact number I use avg+ stat from fangraph which uses a baseline of 100, which measures how good of a hitter a player was as far as avg is concerned compared to the era he played in, joe judge has an avg + of 104, which means he is above avg but certainly not in to the 80s and 90s rating and then I add his actual batting avg in to a formula and compare that to all time mlb avg of .262, which is the batting avg for all players combined from 1900 to current, with a 99 being given to only the top 8 players in the category or .342 in this case. If you give joe judge a 93 and 89, then ty cobb has to be a 115. I try to take out opinion as much as possible, numbers don't lie.
I would suggest you use fangraphs in determining what players to include in the rosters. You can easily look up career WAR ranking numbers any position and team so you don't omit important players, just because they were not big names. For example you have omitted matt Thornton, who is the whitesox alltime war leader as a releiver. If you want to have the best historic roster on the market, you can't have a team's career war leader at a position missing. I understand that you will be adding more players later, but the top guys should be on the first release.
I can get players attributes quickly, all I have to do is list the players I want and copy and paste from fangraphs in to my spreadsheet.
For a player to have attributes in the 80s and 90s he has to be significantly better than his peers. Another example of why you should use spreadsheet to get attributes is for example Kent hrbek, which you have rated as 59 vs R and 49 vs L For contact. Kent has a career avg of 282, well above avg, yet you have him rated as a well below avg hitter. It is just very tough to do attributes without spreadsheet and just eyeballing numbers, And beleive me, I understand how time consuming creating the players are but it becomes even more if you have to guess their attributes. it is cool to have a player that looks just like the player and has very close to the same batting stance, but the backbone of a great roster starts and ends with player attributes and how close they are to their actual performance.
Also imo, it is more important to use stats only for what that player did for that franchise, and not their entire career. If you are putting ken caminiti on the padres, he should be a killer, but he was only a killer for the padres. Padres should benefit from having him crush it with them and the rest of his career should not matter.As you can see, I had some free time during the pandemic LOL. if you need help feel free to ask, my goal is to help you put the most authentic and realistic roster out there.
I'm not going to debate who I should and shouldn't put on the roster that I'm creating and I'm also not going to debate how I should rate the player that I'm creating.
If you don't like my roster, or the players on it, or the rating for the players on it, then by all means don't download it or use it. It won't bother me one bit.
If you want to create your own players on your own roster and rate them however you'd like then by all means knock yourself out.
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Nolan Ryan. Career WAR = 81.3
NYM
Seaver WAR = 76.1
Ryan WAR = 3.0LA/CAL
Finley WAR = 52.0
Ryan WAR = 40.0HOU
Oswalt WAR = 45.7
Dierker WAR = 34.3
Wilson WAR = 27.5
Ryan WAR = 25.4TEX
Hough WAR = 32.6
Rogers WAR = 31.2
Jenkins WAR = 21.8
Darvish WAR = 18.5
Brown WAR = 17.7
Perry WAR = 15/2
Ryan WAR = 15.2Career
Seaver WAR = 106.1
Ryan WAR = 83.6
Finley WAR = 52.0
Oswalt WAR = 49.9
Dierker WAR = 34.3
Wilson WAR = 27.5
Hough WAR = 39.0
Rogers WAR = 50.5
Jenkins WAR = 82.2
Darvish WAR = 26.8
Brown WAR = 68.2Based on franchise WAR Nolan Ryan is not the best pitcher for any franchise that he played on. Yet, he is #20 all time in career WAR. Of the top franchise WAR players for the franchises Ryan played on only Tom Seaver had a better Career WAR than Ryan did.
So, if I rate a player only based on franchise WAR then Ryan isn't the best pitcher on any team I put him on yet he was one of the best pitchers in the history of baseball. That's clearly not something I'm interested in doing on my roster.
In the end it all depends on what the roster maker is looking for in his/her roster. What you're looking for is not the same thing that I'm looking for. Neither is right, and neither is wrong, they are just different.
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Chuck Finley played more years for the angels 14 compared to ryan's 9 which is the only reason he has a higher war and just because he had higher war than ryan doesn't mean his attributes will be higher, it means he did contribute more to the angels on the field than nolan, but certainly not to the game of baseball. I was not suggesting rating players based on franchise war but simply including them on the roster of a team based on that. I think part of our difference is that I am thinking all time great franchise roster where as you are looking at all time great players first and then assigning them to a team, and neither is wrong, after all it is your roster and you are the one putting all the work in.
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I added ATL and uploaded a new version of the ALL TIME GREATS roster to the MLBTS21 Roster vault. It now includes all teams in the AL East, AL Central, AL West, and ATL. Up next is MIA.
Roster name is ALL TIME GREATS under user biebig2010.
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Great work! Any chance you'll be able to do any historical teams this winter? Wish we could have transferred rosters from 20 but it is what it is. Love the greats roster as always!
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@macdonald433_psn said in Historic Rosters 2021:
Great work! Any chance you'll be able to do any historical teams this winter? Wish we could have transferred rosters from 20 but it is what it is. Love the greats roster as always!
Unfortunately it is extremely unlikely I'll be able to do any rosters in MLBTS21 other than the All Time Greats before MLBTS22 is released. It took 6+ months to create 16 teams worth of players (over 1000 players) and I have 14 more teams to go (~900 more players). I expect MLBTS22 to be released around April 1 of 2022 so that leaves me <5 months to finish the last 14 teams.
"If" there are roster transfers in MLBTS22 then I'll transfer the All Time Greats to MLBTS22 fairly quickly and will start working on additional team related rosters for MLBTS22. The big "If" is whether or not MLBTS22 supports roster transfers though.
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Boy I hope they do. I don't understand why they did'nt make it available for 21. Was it because of next gen?
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@macdonald433_psn said in Historic Rosters 2021:
Boy I hope they do. I don't understand why they did'nt make it available for 21. Was it because of next gen?
I remember hearing something about nextgen was the reason because someone wouldn't endorse the product on both PS and Xbox unless both versions had the exact same features. Because there was no xbox last year it couldn't possibly support transferring rosters from xbox last year to xbox this year so they didn't include roster or franchise transfers.
That all may be a bunch of bs but I suppose it's possible.
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Yikes! Does make crazy sense.
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I added MIA and rerated BOS and uploaded a new version of the ALL TIME GREATS roster to the MLBTS21 Roster vault. It now includes all teams in the AL East, AL Central, and AL West plus ATL and MIA. It also includes rerated BAL and BOS teams.
Roster name is ALL TIME GREATS under user biebig2010.
Next up is NYM and rerated NYY.
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I added NYM and rerated NYY attributes and uploaded a new version of the ALL TIME GREATS roster to the MLBTS21 Roster vault. It now includes all teams in the AL East, AL Central, AL West, ATL, MIA, NYM. It also includes rerated BAL, BOS, NYY teams.
Roster name is ALL TIME GREATS under user biebig2010.
Next up is PHI and rerated TB.
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I added PHI and rerated TB attributes and uploaded a new version of the ALL TIME GREATS roster to the MLBTS21 Roster vault. It now includes all teams in the AL East, AL Central, AL West, ATL, MIA, NYM, PHI. It also includes rerated BAL, BOS, NYY, TB teams.
Roster name is ALL TIME GREATS under user biebig2010.
Next up is WASH and rerated TOR.
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I added WASH/MON and rerated TOR attributes and uploaded a new version of the ALL TIME GREATS roster to the MLBTS21 Roster vault. It now includes all teams in the AL East, AL Central, AL West, and NL East. It also includes rerated AL East teams.
Roster name is ALL TIME GREATS under user biebig2010.
Next up is CHC and rerated CWS.
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I added CHC and rerated CWS attributes and uploaded a new version of the ALL TIME GREATS roster to the MLBTS21 Roster vault. It now includes all teams in the AL East, AL Central, AL West, NL East, and CHC. It also includes rerated AL East and CWS teams.
Roster name is ALL TIME GREATS under user biebig2010.
Next up is CIN and rerated CLE.
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I added CIN and rerated CLE attributes and uploaded a new version of the ALL TIME GREATS roster to the MLBTS21 Roster vault. It now includes all teams in the AL East, AL Central, AL West, NL East, CHC, and CIN. It also includes rerated AL East, CWS, and CLE teams.
Roster name is ALL TIME GREATS under user biebig2010.
Next up is MIL and rerated DET.
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I added MIL and rerated DET attributes and uploaded a new version of the ALL TIME GREATS roster to the MLBTS21 Roster vault. It now includes all teams in the AL East, AL Central, AL West, NL East, CHC, CIN, and MIL. It also includes rerated AL East, CWS, CLE, and DET teams.
Roster name is ALL TIME GREATS under user biebig2010.
Next up is PIT and rerated KC.
