Kyle Seager
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@dolenz_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
I would argue the anti-Mariners bias is at play here.
Fans of about 20 to 25 teams thinks that SDS has a bias against their team.
Fangraphs has him listed at -1.2 offensive runs above replacement.
Brandon Lowe who has the same number of homeruns has a 19.3 rating
Max Muncy who has one less homerun has a rating of 34.3Based on that Seager is doing something really wrong. He only has a .288 on base average. He also has a -2.3 baserunning runs above average.
I would argue that he has simply figured out his job is not to get on base but to drive in runs.
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@halfbutt_PSN
Noone is arguing the fact he's productive but RBIs does absolutely nothing for his in game attributes. Average, power, fielding do. He is really good at 1 of the 3. He is a silver -
@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@dolenz_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
I would argue the anti-Mariners bias is at play here.
Fans of about 20 to 25 teams thinks that SDS has a bias against their team.
Fangraphs has him listed at -1.2 offensive runs above replacement.
Brandon Lowe who has the same number of homeruns has a 19.3 rating
Max Muncy who has one less homerun has a rating of 34.3Based on that Seager is doing something really wrong. He only has a .288 on base average. He also has a -2.3 baserunning runs above average.
I would argue that he has simply figured out his job is not to get on base but to drive in runs.
He should figure out how to be better than a league-average hitter instead.
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@kovz88_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@halfbutt_PSN
Noone is arguing the fact he's productive but RBIs does absolutely nothing for his in game attributes. Average, power, fielding do. He is really good at 1 of the 3. He is a silverGood points. How much would the power attribute and/or defensive attributes need to go up make him an 80 OVR?
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@jogger171717_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@dolenz_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
I would argue the anti-Mariners bias is at play here.
Fans of about 20 to 25 teams thinks that SDS has a bias against their team.
Fangraphs has him listed at -1.2 offensive runs above replacement.
Brandon Lowe who has the same number of homeruns has a 19.3 rating
Max Muncy who has one less homerun has a rating of 34.3Based on that Seager is doing something really wrong. He only has a .288 on base average. He also has a -2.3 baserunning runs above average.
I would argue that he has simply figured out his job is not to get on base but to drive in runs.
He should figure out how to be better than a league-average hitter instead.
I’ll take the .312 and 72 rbi with RISP over the “league average”.
Having a 3 hitter that gets the job done, to me, is worth more. I guess technically that would be clutch attribute?
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@halfbutt_PSN
That one I can't really answer. I would guess with that contact he's gonna need to be 100+ power and close to diamond defense -
@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@jogger171717_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@dolenz_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
I would argue the anti-Mariners bias is at play here.
Fans of about 20 to 25 teams thinks that SDS has a bias against their team.
Fangraphs has him listed at -1.2 offensive runs above replacement.
Brandon Lowe who has the same number of homeruns has a 19.3 rating
Max Muncy who has one less homerun has a rating of 34.3Based on that Seager is doing something really wrong. He only has a .288 on base average. He also has a -2.3 baserunning runs above average.
I would argue that he has simply figured out his job is not to get on base but to drive in runs.
He should figure out how to be better than a league-average hitter instead.
I’ll take the .312 and 72 rbi with RISP over the “league average”.
Having a 3 hitter that gets the job done, to me, is worth more. I guess technically that would be clutch attribute?
So you’d take a worse hitter that just has a decent amount of RBIs (a highly team-dependent stat) over an actually good hitter?
Some incredibly backwards logic going on here
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@jogger171717_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@jogger171717_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@dolenz_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
I would argue the anti-Mariners bias is at play here.
Fans of about 20 to 25 teams thinks that SDS has a bias against their team.
Fangraphs has him listed at -1.2 offensive runs above replacement.
Brandon Lowe who has the same number of homeruns has a 19.3 rating
Max Muncy who has one less homerun has a rating of 34.3Based on that Seager is doing something really wrong. He only has a .288 on base average. He also has a -2.3 baserunning runs above average.
I would argue that he has simply figured out his job is not to get on base but to drive in runs.
He should figure out how to be better than a league-average hitter instead.
I’ll take the .312 and 72 rbi with RISP over the “league average”.
Having a 3 hitter that gets the job done, to me, is worth more. I guess technically that would be clutch attribute?
So you’d take a worse hitter that just has a decent amount of RBIs (a highly team-dependent stat) over an actually good hitter?
Some incredibly backwards logic going on here
The only backwards logic is arguing that a guy hitting .312 with RISP, 91 rbi on Sept 4th, and sixth in baseball with 33 bombs is not a good hitter.
Kovz is making informed, objective points. You sir, I’m not sure what your agenda is, other than to chirp.
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@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@jogger171717_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@jogger171717_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@dolenz_psn said in Kyle Seager:
@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
I would argue the anti-Mariners bias is at play here.
Fans of about 20 to 25 teams thinks that SDS has a bias against their team.
Fangraphs has him listed at -1.2 offensive runs above replacement.
Brandon Lowe who has the same number of homeruns has a 19.3 rating
Max Muncy who has one less homerun has a rating of 34.3Based on that Seager is doing something really wrong. He only has a .288 on base average. He also has a -2.3 baserunning runs above average.
I would argue that he has simply figured out his job is not to get on base but to drive in runs.
He should figure out how to be better than a league-average hitter instead.
I’ll take the .312 and 72 rbi with RISP over the “league average”.
Having a 3 hitter that gets the job done, to me, is worth more. I guess technically that would be clutch attribute?
So you’d take a worse hitter that just has a decent amount of RBIs (a highly team-dependent stat) over an actually good hitter?
Some incredibly backwards logic going on here
The only backwards logic is arguing that a guy hitting .312 with RISP, 91 rbi on Sept 4th, and sixth in baseball with 33 bombs is not a good hitter.
Kovz is making informed, objective points. You sir, I’m not sure what your agenda is, other than to chirp.
I gave you a stat that literally proves he’s been a league-average hitter this season, which justifies him being a silver. You’re using things that don’t matter, like rbi and avg with risp. Having 33 home runs doesn’t mean he’s been a good hitter.
In 2018, Joey Gallo was 3rd in HR with 40, but only had a 108 wRC+. The rest of the top 10 all had basically 130 wRC+ or higher, Martinez and trout even having 170 and 188 respectively. The point is that hitting a bunch of HR doesn’t mean much if that’s the only thing you can do.
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I think Scott Servais would beg to differ.
91 rbi and .312 with RISP don’t matter? Maybe not to sabremetricians, but anyone with a brain can see that the Mariners won tonight because Seager hit two bombs and drove in six runs.
Who cares if he is hitting .214? They won the game and kept pace in the standings.
This, imo, is the problem with modern metrics.
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@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
I’ll take the .312 and 72 rbi with RISP over the “league average”.
Fangraphs has him at .310 with 59 RBIs when runners are in scoring position. Still very good.
But as others have said. RBIs don't help any attribute. Average with runners in scoring might help the clutch rating but Kyle already has a 95 clutch rating so it will be hard for them to raise that.
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6 rbi tonight, 12 since the 22nd August. Maybe fangraphs has yet to update.
You make a good point. If his clutch is 95, that attribute wouldn’t get him past 79.
I think maybe there is something lacking in the way the attributes convert to OVR.
I was thinking, for example, Ketel Marte has 10 home runs, 49 rbi on the year. He’s hitting a solid .337 (albeit in half as many at bats as Seags) and is a LS diamond.
To me, this doesn’t add up.
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Seags is being ignored by SDS, plain and simple
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@tgn848_psn said in Kyle Seager:
Seags is being ignored by SDS, plain and simple
Let’s hope the rest of the league keeps ignoring him too (and pitching to him).
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@halfbutt_psn said in Kyle Seager:
I think maybe there is something lacking in the way the attributes convert to OVR.
That is probably true. Like I said though you are talking about how clutch Seager is and they do have a stat for that and it is his highest offensive attribute. How much it should contribute to the overall rating in comparison to the other attributes is all in SDS's court.
Adam Wainwright is the 9th best pitcher in the majors this year according to Fangraphs (by War). He is still a 79. Nathan Eovaldi is having a year very similar to Walker Beuhler and is the 5th best pitcher this year and he is a 79. Part of it is that these guys are coming off down years. But a big part of it is that Wainwright does not do it by striking a lot of guys out. He has a 57 k/9 rating and that really tanks him.
Oh, and while we are talking about clutch. Here is a stat that I was shocked to find out. Matt Carpenter is one of the best bases loaded hitters of all time. His batting average with the bases loaded in his career is .492 with an OPS of 1.214
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@dolenz_psn said in Kyle Seager:
His batting average with the bases loaded in his career is .492 with an OPS of 1.214
That is the definition of a clutch player!
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@halfbutt_PSN
I think Marte is a little higher than he should be but he is batting over .400 against lefties this year so his contact vs lefties is 125 in the game which alone boosts his overall and on top of that he's hitting over .300 vs righties as well. -
I am not so much saying Ketel is undeserving as just questioning the whole thing.
I mean I have the Signature Seager so it doesn’t really matter that his LS remains silver.
It seems to me, and I guess this is my underlying point here, that the OVR ratings are pretty arbitrary.
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As a Mariner fan I have to agree. Kyle has become basically a one tool player. He has great power numbers this year, and he’s definitely been clutch, but everything else offensively is below average. Then add to that he’s basically a replacement level defensive player and making him gold is a tough sell. JP Crawford to gold is the much better argument.
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@halfbutt_PSN
They have never fully come out and said exactly how weighted each stat is. I know for each position some things like defense matter more and lesser hitting stats will still get you an upgrade if you're a good defender. I'm pretty sure contact and power vs righties is weighted higher than contact and power vs lefties.Obviously for something like this they can't give us the exact way the numbers transfer otherwise someone would be able to work out an algorithm to always figure out who's getting an upgrade but I wish we could get a little more info on it.
