Are we going to get a Kris Bryant MVP series diamond as a set headliner?
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@WDK19 said in Are we going to get a Kris Bryant MVP series diamond as a set headliner?:
@Nanthrax_1 said in Are we going to get a Kris Bryant MVP series diamond as a set headliner?:
@WDK19 said in Are we going to get a Kris Bryant MVP series diamond as a set headliner?:
I’d love to use 2017 mvp Joey Votto. Oh wait...
Stanton was better and deserved it...
I think you mean Judge...
I guess it depends which stats your favor. Stanton had the clear power stats edge but Votto’s OPS (considered by many to be the best offensive stat) was nearly 30 points higher.
Both were on crappy teams so you can’t try to debate best vs “most valuable”.Stanton had almost a full win over Votto, per fWAR.
Stanton was the clear winner.
If anything, Bryant would’ve won it over Votto.
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@WDK19 said in Are we going to get a Kris Bryant MVP series diamond as a set headliner?:
@Nanthrax_1 said in Are we going to get a Kris Bryant MVP series diamond as a set headliner?:
@WDK19 said in Are we going to get a Kris Bryant MVP series diamond as a set headliner?:
I’d love to use 2017 mvp Joey Votto. Oh wait...
Stanton was better and deserved it...
I think you mean Judge...
I guess it depends which stats your favor. Stanton had the clear power stats edge but Votto’s OPS (considered by many to be the best offensive stat) was nearly 30 points higher.
Stanton 2017 - 158 wRC+, 7.3 fWAR, with the traditional stats 59 HR/132 RBI
Votto 2017 - 163 wRC+, 6.5 fWAR, poor defense, with traditional stats of 36 HR/100 RBI..
Whether you're new or old school, it's pretty obvious really. How could anyone take Votto over Giancarlo when it's close in advanced metrics, but Stanton crushes him traditionally... Plus better defense
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@DriveByTrucker17 said in Are we going to get a Kris Bryant MVP series diamond as a set headliner?:
@WDK19 said in Are we going to get a Kris Bryant MVP series diamond as a set headliner?:
@Nanthrax_1 said in Are we going to get a Kris Bryant MVP series diamond as a set headliner?:
@WDK19 said in Are we going to get a Kris Bryant MVP series diamond as a set headliner?:
I’d love to use 2017 mvp Joey Votto. Oh wait...
Stanton was better and deserved it...
I think you mean Judge...
I guess it depends which stats your favor. Stanton had the clear power stats edge but Votto’s OPS (considered by many to be the best offensive stat) was nearly 30 points higher.
Both were on crappy teams so you can’t try to debate best vs “most valuable”.Stanton had almost a full win over Votto, per fWAR.
Stanton was the clear winner.
Baseball reference has Votto 8.1 Stanton 8.0. WAR is great for measuring careers but when you get to a tight MVP race for a single season it’s not quite as useful because everyone calculates it differently.
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@WDK19 said in Are we going to get a Kris Bryant MVP series diamond as a set headliner?:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Are we going to get a Kris Bryant MVP series diamond as a set headliner?:
@WDK19 said in Are we going to get a Kris Bryant MVP series diamond as a set headliner?:
@Nanthrax_1 said in Are we going to get a Kris Bryant MVP series diamond as a set headliner?:
@WDK19 said in Are we going to get a Kris Bryant MVP series diamond as a set headliner?:
I’d love to use 2017 mvp Joey Votto. Oh wait...
Stanton was better and deserved it...
I think you mean Judge...
I guess it depends which stats your favor. Stanton had the clear power stats edge but Votto’s OPS (considered by many to be the best offensive stat) was nearly 30 points higher.
Both were on crappy teams so you can’t try to debate best vs “most valuable”.Stanton had almost a full win over Votto, per fWAR.
Stanton was the clear winner.
Baseball reference has Votto 8.1 Stanton 8.0. WAR is great for measuring careers but when you get to a tight MVP race for a single season it’s not quite as useful because everyone calculates it differently.
Exactly. It's so tight, so then you give it to the guy who hit literally double the amount of homers, drove in 30 more runs and played good D
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@WDK19 said in Are we going to get a Kris Bryant MVP series diamond as a set headliner?:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Are we going to get a Kris Bryant MVP series diamond as a set headliner?:
@WDK19 said in Are we going to get a Kris Bryant MVP series diamond as a set headliner?:
@Nanthrax_1 said in Are we going to get a Kris Bryant MVP series diamond as a set headliner?:
@WDK19 said in Are we going to get a Kris Bryant MVP series diamond as a set headliner?:
I’d love to use 2017 mvp Joey Votto. Oh wait...
Stanton was better and deserved it...
I think you mean Judge...
I guess it depends which stats your favor. Stanton had the clear power stats edge but Votto’s OPS (considered by many to be the best offensive stat) was nearly 30 points higher.
Both were on crappy teams so you can’t try to debate best vs “most valuable”.Stanton had almost a full win over Votto, per fWAR.
Stanton was the clear winner.
Baseball reference has Votto 8.1 Stanton 8.0. WAR is great for measuring careers but when you get to a tight MVP race for a single season it’s not quite as useful because everyone calculates it differently.
fWAR is better for position players, bWAR is better for pitchers.
bWAR is known to overrate defense too highly. fWAR is much more reasonable.
Going by fWAR, Votto could’ve reasonably finished in 2nd-5th place. But nobody was close enough to Stanton in 1st.
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@DriveByTrucker17 said in Are we going to get a Kris Bryant MVP series diamond as a set headliner?:
@WDK19 said in Are we going to get a Kris Bryant MVP series diamond as a set headliner?:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Are we going to get a Kris Bryant MVP series diamond as a set headliner?:
@WDK19 said in Are we going to get a Kris Bryant MVP series diamond as a set headliner?:
@Nanthrax_1 said in Are we going to get a Kris Bryant MVP series diamond as a set headliner?:
@WDK19 said in Are we going to get a Kris Bryant MVP series diamond as a set headliner?:
I’d love to use 2017 mvp Joey Votto. Oh wait...
Stanton was better and deserved it...
I think you mean Judge...
I guess it depends which stats your favor. Stanton had the clear power stats edge but Votto’s OPS (considered by many to be the best offensive stat) was nearly 30 points higher.
Both were on crappy teams so you can’t try to debate best vs “most valuable”.Stanton had almost a full win over Votto, per fWAR.
Stanton was the clear winner.
Baseball reference has Votto 8.1 Stanton 8.0. WAR is great for measuring careers but when you get to a tight MVP race for a single season it’s not quite as useful because everyone calculates it differently.
fWAR is better for position players, bWAR is better for pitchers.
bWAR is known to overrate defense too highly. fWAR is much more reasonable.
Going by fWAR, Votto could’ve reasonably finished in 2nd-5th place. But nobody was close enough to Stanton in 1st.
It's close in advanced metrics, no doubt. But being so tight, you can't reasonably expect to get the winning votes when one of the guys hit 59 bombs and the other just walked a stupid amount. Voters will take 59 bombs everytime.
And by the way, I love Votto (Canadian)
And I dislike Stanton.
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Okay guys, I concede. It’s just that in my opinion, the best offensive stats are stuff like OPS, wOBA, True Avg. and Votto led Stanton in all three. I’ll give you the home runs (although I don’t want to hear a thing about RBIs) and maybe the defense, although it’s tough to compare outfield defense to infield defense.
It’s subjective for sure and I understand the value to Stanton. It’s just that he’s a certain type of hitter, and Votto is a completely different type of hitter, and I’d rather have more guys like 2017 Votto than 2017 Stanton in my lineup. I don’t think you can say Stanton was the CLEAR winner. He only won by a vote anyway, IIRC. -
@WDK19 said in Are we going to get a Kris Bryant MVP series diamond as a set headliner?:
I’d love to use 2017 mvp Joey Votto. Oh wait...
You can! Sort of...
https://mlb17.theshownation.com/marketplace/listing?item_ref_id=25991
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@SaveFarris said in Are we going to get a Kris Bryant MVP series diamond as a set headliner?:
@WDK19 said in Are we going to get a Kris Bryant MVP series diamond as a set headliner?:
I’d love to use 2017 mvp Joey Votto. Oh wait...
You can! Sort of...
https://mlb17.theshownation.com/marketplace/listing?item_ref_id=25991
We need them to bring back some 2017 Finest cards. That card art was fantastic.
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@WDK19 said in Are we going to get a Kris Bryant MVP series diamond as a set headliner?:
Okay guys, I concede. It’s just that in my opinion, the best offensive stats are stuff like OPS, wOBA, True Avg. and Votto led Stanton in all three. I’ll give you the home runs (although I don’t want to hear a thing about RBIs) and maybe the defense, although it’s tough to compare outfield defense to infield defense.
It’s subjective for sure and I understand the value to Stanton. It’s just that he’s a certain type of hitter, and Votto is a completely different type of hitter, and I’d rather have more guys like 2017 Votto than 2017 Stanton in my lineup. I don’t think you can say Stanton was the CLEAR winner. He only won by a vote anyway, IIRC.Hey, now that is a mature and wonderful "breath of fresh air" response on these forums!! I tip my hat to you sir.
And yes, I agree, Votto had a slight slight edge on him in those categories. I brought up the traditional HR RBI point as in there's still a lot of relic voters out there.. I don't agree with RBI either but some of these writers were around to vote for George Bell in 1987...
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@DriveByTrucker17 said in Are we going to get a Kris Bryant MVP series diamond as a set headliner?:
@SaveFarris said in Are we going to get a Kris Bryant MVP series diamond as a set headliner?:
@WDK19 said in Are we going to get a Kris Bryant MVP series diamond as a set headliner?:
I’d love to use 2017 mvp Joey Votto. Oh wait...
You can! Sort of...
https://mlb17.theshownation.com/marketplace/listing?item_ref_id=25991
We need them to bring back some 2017 Finest cards. That card art was fantastic.
For sure! That was before I started in DD, I’d love to try them out, especially if we don’t have a season to get any 2020 Finest (fingers crossed).
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@WDK19 said in Are we going to get a Kris Bryant MVP series diamond as a set headliner?:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Are we going to get a Kris Bryant MVP series diamond as a set headliner?:
@SaveFarris said in Are we going to get a Kris Bryant MVP series diamond as a set headliner?:
@WDK19 said in Are we going to get a Kris Bryant MVP series diamond as a set headliner?:
I’d love to use 2017 mvp Joey Votto. Oh wait...
You can! Sort of...
https://mlb17.theshownation.com/marketplace/listing?item_ref_id=25991
We need them to bring back some 2017 Finest cards. That card art was fantastic.
For sure! That was before I started in DD, I’d love to try them out, especially if we don’t have a season to get any 2020 Finest (fingers crossed).
If we don't, they should have fans vote for each team's finest, then maybe add top 10 or 20 not picked based on WAR the last couple years..
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@Nanthrax_1 said in Are we going to get a Kris Bryant MVP series diamond as a set headliner?:
I think they should do most of the recent mvp winners for sure! Maybe skip Altuve though lol
What's interesting about Altuve in 2017 is that his away splits were much better than his home splits... Most of the indications I saw of the Astros cheating was for home games.
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@pbake12 said in Are we going to get a Kris Bryant MVP series diamond as a set headliner?:
@Nanthrax_1 said in Are we going to get a Kris Bryant MVP series diamond as a set headliner?:
I think they should do most of the recent mvp winners for sure! Maybe skip Altuve though lol
What's interesting about Altuve in 2017 is that his away splits were much better than his home splits... Most of the indications I saw of the Astros cheating was for home games.
Ya that's true, and interesting. Regardless if it helped him or not, it still happened...
Even then I'd take Judge's year in a clean fight... -
As a Mets fan I would love to see a Prime 2013 Matt Harvey or a CY Young DeGrom. Even as a Mets fan tho under no circumstances do I want to see CY Young Dickey. No knuckleballers please.
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@Kovz88 said in Are we going to get a Kris Bryant MVP series diamond as a set headliner?:
As a Mets fan I would love to see a Prime 2013 Matt Harvey or a CY Young DeGrom. Even as a Mets fan tho under no circumstances do I want to see CY Young Dickey. No knuckleballers please.
Harvey was the man in 2013.
Maybe never, but i'd love to see a 1985 Dwight Gooden. -
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