No, user input (stick skills) does not reign supreme in Competitive Gameplay Style
-
@buddyhightower_xbl said in No, user input (stick skills) does not reign supreme in Competitive Gameplay Style:
@vipersneak_mlbts said in No, user input (stick skills) does not reign supreme in Competitive Gameplay Style:
SDS will also never make the player attributes not matter. They make most of their money selling stubs in DD so that you will want to buy players who perform better than what you already have all year long. If user input was 95% of what matters a person would never have to upgrade their players in DD. Competitive mode was made for DD primarily so even playing franchise the player attributes will matter at least as much as user input.. Good video skills though, and I would also be pissed, but I feel I understand why sometimes these things are going to happen.
Disagree here too.
A 99 rated pitcher can throw a fastball 103 MPH, a 59 rated pitcher can only throw 85MPH - that's the difference. Both should pitch in their own PAR area, the 99 probably has a smaller PAR area.You can disagree all you like, but you are the one who will remain disappointed in the game forever. I am going to enjoy it with all its flaws because its baseball, and baseball games are inherently flawed and unpredictable. Watch one some time. It is quite amazing how off their spot RL pitchers truly are almost every pitch. What makes a pitcher good is his "stuff". How his fastball moves or his sinker drops. They are no were near as perfect with location as you can be in this game.
-
The best thing about watching baseball in RL is how unpredictable baseball is. How players go on slumps or get hot. How a pitcher will have a good day or a bad day. And every year this forum asks for the game to be more and more predictable. More and more like a sterile math problem where you know the outcome of every input that you make. It is hard to code the human element of a baseball game, but I think SDS has done a pretty good job of that and some people just don't want baseball, they want a sterile video game that is like every other video game ever created. There are tons of games out there that depend only on joystick play only, why bring that to a baseball game that actually does a good job of making baseball come to life in a game? For me, just get rid of the bugs and overall when I sit back and think about it I am happy with how the baseball part of this game works. Not so happy that I have to do Moments.
-
@vipersneak_mlbts said in No, user input (stick skills) does not reign supreme in Competitive Gameplay Style:
@buddyhightower_xbl said in No, user input (stick skills) does not reign supreme in Competitive Gameplay Style:
@vipersneak_mlbts said in No, user input (stick skills) does not reign supreme in Competitive Gameplay Style:
SDS will also never make the player attributes not matter. They make most of their money selling stubs in DD so that you will want to buy players who perform better than what you already have all year long. If user input was 95% of what matters a person would never have to upgrade their players in DD. Competitive mode was made for DD primarily so even playing franchise the player attributes will matter at least as much as user input.. Good video skills though, and I would also be pissed, but I feel I understand why sometimes these things are going to happen.
Disagree here too.
A 99 rated pitcher can throw a fastball 103 MPH, a 59 rated pitcher can only throw 85MPH - that's the difference. Both should pitch in their own PAR area, the 99 probably has a smaller PAR area.You can disagree all you like, but you are the one who will remain disappointed in the game forever. I am going to enjoy it with all its flaws because its baseball, and baseball games are inherently flawed and unpredictable. Watch one some time. It is quite amazing how off their spot RL pitchers truly are almost every pitch. What makes a pitcher good is his "stuff". How his fastball moves or his sinker drops. They are no were near as perfect with location as you can be in this game.
That is so weak!! Baseball is an imperfect game, therefor, SDS developers can code a steaming pile of [censored] and that means it’s a good offering because baseball isn’t a perfect game. You have fanbois syndrome really bad…get that [censored] checked.
SDS has done a horrible job this year. Period. -
Logic check. So if SDS coded a game that was based on consistency and quality that would be bad because baseball is an imperfect game. Right!! Get your head out of your [censored]!!
-
@vipersneak_mlbts said in No, user input (stick skills) does not reign supreme in Competitive Gameplay Style:
@red_ted_is_back said in No, user input (stick skills) does not reign supreme in Competitive Gameplay Style:
@vipersneak_mlbts said in No, user input (stick skills) does not reign supreme in Competitive Gameplay Style:
If input was all that mattered a 99 diamond would be no better than a common player. Get over it.
Thank you, it seems you’ve misinterpreted my point.
I partially misinterpreted in only that I thought you were playing online. Here is the thing. You pitcher has attributes, he gets tired, he has a confidence rating for the pitch you selected, he has k/9 rating, he has a clutch rating, the batter has a clutch rating (so tight situations user input will indeed be affected more), and perfect input will never 100% of the time give perfect results. Because as I said, if it did, then it wouldn't matter which pitcher you ever used. Perfect input should give your input more of a say in the outcome, and perhaps it doesn't enough, but it wasn't designed to make input 100% either. Your evidence is pretty weak as well. That is one pitch. Do that experiment 100 times on each playstyle (competitive and simulation) and then determine which values user input more often. You also adding in a conspiracy theory which I do understand, and often frustrates me. I too often think that I was set up by the coding. Then I remember that all players make errors and stuff like this happens in real baseball as well. Sometimes the other team screws up in my favor so I am good with it.
Think about how real baseball plays out. It's pretty messy and odd things are happening all the time that leave you scratching your head as to how your favorite team could play that poorly, or how that player could have decided to do such a dumb thing or make such a stupid error. Do you really want the game sanitized and sterile? So clear cut that you can predict every outcome based on something? I don't. But if you do, then perhaps they do need to make competitive mode even worse than it is now so you are able to calculate the outcomes based on 100% user input. I simply do not see how that could be fun for anyone, and would indeed lead to your players not mattering.
Thank you for an insightful and interesting reply.
I thought about doing this experiment (layering the image of the feedback onto the strike zone) back in April when I first noticed the pitches landing outside the PAR but I didn’t know how to do it. I probably saw it happen a few dozen times (played through all spring training games plus the first 11 of the season) before I got annoyed enough and had the time to work out how to reposition, resize and layer the feedback image onto the video (learnt some new stuff in Final Cut Pro in the process). So whilst I’ve only got video evidence of one, I’m not basing this on just one instance.
I agree with a lot of what you’ve said. I’m not a 100% user input supporter myself either for the reasons you’ve given. I’m reasonably satisfied with how the PAR should work to vary where the ball should land based on the pitcher’s control attribute. But as the clip demonstrates, it’s not as advertised. Syndergaard was only on 27 pitches at that point to so energy wasn’t a factor.
I also agree that to compare simulation and competitive, I really should try both over a long period of time and record results. That does take away from the credibility of my questioning.
I’m usually ok with random fielder errors and that Lindor error wouldn’t normally have bothered me too much, except it was so transparent that it was a lead-in to the upcoming play, that was the tipping point for including it in the video and even creating the video in the first place. If I had messed up on a pitch that would be on me and I wouldn’t have decided to pause and create the vid right there and then (several other times I had actually captured clips with that intention but never bothered) but that pitch was perfect and went nowhere near where it was supposed to (ie the PAR circle) so I got a bit triggered
And by triggered I simply mean laughing at how ridiculously frustrating the game’s obvious deliberate ‘dramatic scenario creating’ is.Anyways, I appreciate the discussion and you’ve made some really good points here which I found interesting and helpful.
-
@red_ted_is_back said in No, user input (stick skills) does not reign supreme in Competitive Gameplay Style:
@vipersneak_mlbts said in No, user input (stick skills) does not reign supreme in Competitive Gameplay Style:
@red_ted_is_back said in No, user input (stick skills) does not reign supreme in Competitive Gameplay Style:
@vipersneak_mlbts said in No, user input (stick skills) does not reign supreme in Competitive Gameplay Style:
If input was all that mattered a 99 diamond would be no better than a common player. Get over it.
Thank you, it seems you’ve misinterpreted my point.
I partially misinterpreted in only that I thought you were playing online. Here is the thing. You pitcher has attributes, he gets tired, he has a confidence rating for the pitch you selected, he has k/9 rating, he has a clutch rating, the batter has a clutch rating (so tight situations user input will indeed be affected more), and perfect input will never 100% of the time give perfect results. Because as I said, if it did, then it wouldn't matter which pitcher you ever used. Perfect input should give your input more of a say in the outcome, and perhaps it doesn't enough, but it wasn't designed to make input 100% either. Your evidence is pretty weak as well. That is one pitch. Do that experiment 100 times on each playstyle (competitive and simulation) and then determine which values user input more often. You also adding in a conspiracy theory which I do understand, and often frustrates me. I too often think that I was set up by the coding. Then I remember that all players make errors and stuff like this happens in real baseball as well. Sometimes the other team screws up in my favor so I am good with it.
Think about how real baseball plays out. It's pretty messy and odd things are happening all the time that leave you scratching your head as to how your favorite team could play that poorly, or how that player could have decided to do such a dumb thing or make such a stupid error. Do you really want the game sanitized and sterile? So clear cut that you can predict every outcome based on something? I don't. But if you do, then perhaps they do need to make competitive mode even worse than it is now so you are able to calculate the outcomes based on 100% user input. I simply do not see how that could be fun for anyone, and would indeed lead to your players not mattering.
Thank you for an insightful and interesting reply.
I thought about doing this experiment (layering the image of the feedback onto the strike zone) back in April when I first noticed the pitches landing outside the PAR but I didn’t know how to do it. I probably saw it happen a few dozen times (played through all spring training games plus the first 11 of the season) before I got annoyed enough and had the time to work out how to reposition, resize and layer the feedback image onto the video (learnt some new stuff in Final Cut Pro in the process). So whilst I’ve only got video evidence of one, I’m not basing this on just one instance.
I agree with a lot of what you’ve said. I’m not a 100% user input supporter myself either for the reasons you’ve given. I’m reasonably satisfied with how the PAR should work to vary where the ball should land based on the pitcher’s control attribute. But as the clip demonstrates, it’s not as advertised. Syndergaard was only on 27 pitches at that point to so energy wasn’t a factor.
I also agree that to compare simulation and competitive, I really should try both over a long period of time and record results. That does take away from the credibility of my questioning.
I’m usually ok with random fielder errors and that Lindor error wouldn’t normally have bothered me too much, except it was so transparent that it was a lead-in to the upcoming play, that was the tipping point for including it in the video and even creating the video in the first place. If I had messed up on a pitch that would be on me and I wouldn’t have decided to pause and create the vid right there and then (several other times I had actually captured clips with that intention but never bothered) but that pitch was perfect and went nowhere near where it was supposed to (ie the PAR circle) so I got a bit triggered
And by triggered I simply mean laughing at how ridiculously frustrating the game’s obvious deliberate ‘dramatic scenario creating’ is.Anyways, I appreciate the discussion and you’ve made some really good points here which I found interesting and helpful.
You as well buddy. Thank you for reading and understanding my points. Keep those video skills improving and perhaps SDS will see something in them that they can fix for the better of everyone. Your work is appreciated!
-
@worterror_psn said in No, user input (stick skills) does not reign supreme in Competitive Gameplay Style:
@vipersneak_mlbts said in No, user input (stick skills) does not reign supreme in Competitive Gameplay Style:
@buddyhightower_xbl said in No, user input (stick skills) does not reign supreme in Competitive Gameplay Style:
@vipersneak_mlbts said in No, user input (stick skills) does not reign supreme in Competitive Gameplay Style:
SDS will also never make the player attributes not matter. They make most of their money selling stubs in DD so that you will want to buy players who perform better than what you already have all year long. If user input was 95% of what matters a person would never have to upgrade their players in DD. Competitive mode was made for DD primarily so even playing franchise the player attributes will matter at least as much as user input.. Good video skills though, and I would also be pissed, but I feel I understand why sometimes these things are going to happen.
Disagree here too.
A 99 rated pitcher can throw a fastball 103 MPH, a 59 rated pitcher can only throw 85MPH - that's the difference. Both should pitch in their own PAR area, the 99 probably has a smaller PAR area.You can disagree all you like, but you are the one who will remain disappointed in the game forever. I am going to enjoy it with all its flaws because its baseball, and baseball games are inherently flawed and unpredictable. Watch one some time. It is quite amazing how off their spot RL pitchers truly are almost every pitch. What makes a pitcher good is his "stuff". How his fastball moves or his sinker drops. They are no were near as perfect with location as you can be in this game.
That is so weak!! Baseball is an imperfect game, therefor, SDS developers can code a steaming pile of [censored] and that means it’s a good offering because baseball isn’t a perfect game. You have fanbois syndrome really bad…get that [censored] checked.
SDS has done a horrible job this year. Period.No, I never said they can create a badly programmed game. What I mean, since it was not clear, is that they need to program a human element into the game, and that is difficult. They do a decent job of it, but it is never going to be perfect and not everyone is going to agree what we even want. I want realism as much as possible while also incorporating user input. That is asking a lot. I demand a lot. But I am not about to bash their efforts like you are because the game is not trash, but simply has its flaws. The times that i do bash SDS is when things like the beginning of this season occur and we couldn't even play. Sometimes I complain about their decisions. But their programming is pretty solid, it just may not do what you want it to do. It does do what they want it to do.
-
This post is deleted!
-
@buddyhightower_xbl said in No, user input (stick skills) does not reign supreme in Competitive Gameplay Style:
@vipersneak_mlbts said in No, user input (stick skills) does not reign supreme in Competitive Gameplay Style:
and perfect input will never 100% of the time give perfect results.
Perfect input SHOULD keep the ball in the PAR section. In the video it was a perfect pitch and it went outside the PAR.
I complained about this at the beginning of the game cycle and was told by other users here that it wasn't possible. I somehow convinced myself they were probably right, but it never felt correct. Unfortunately I don't know how to capture video on PS4 so was unable to demonstrate what I observed, but I saw pitches on perfect input going outside the PAR. I'm sure my old post about it is still here, and it was a while ago, but I'm actually quite gratified to see evidence of it being posted.
-
@vipersneak_mlbts said in No, user input (stick skills) does not reign supreme in Competitive Gameplay Style:
@red_ted_is_back said in No, user input (stick skills) does not reign supreme in Competitive Gameplay Style:
@vipersneak_mlbts said in No, user input (stick skills) does not reign supreme in Competitive Gameplay Style:
If input was all that mattered a 99 diamond would be no better than a common player. Get over it.
Thank you, it seems you’ve misinterpreted my point.
I partially misinterpreted in only that I thought you were playing online. Here is the thing. You pitcher has attributes, he gets tired, he has a confidence rating for the pitch you selected, he has k/9 rating, he has a clutch rating, the batter has a clutch rating (so tight situations user input will indeed be affected more), and perfect input will never 100% of the time give perfect results. Because as I said, if it did, then it wouldn't matter which pitcher you ever used. Perfect input should give your input more of a say in the outcome, and perhaps it doesn't enough, but it wasn't designed to make input 100% either. Your evidence is pretty weak as well. That is one pitch. Do that experiment 100 times on each playstyle (competitive and simulation) and then determine which values user input more often. You also adding in a conspiracy theory which I do understand, and often frustrates me. I too often think that I was set up by the coding. Then I remember that all players make errors and stuff like this happens in real baseball as well. Sometimes the other team screws up in my favor so I am good with it.
Think about how real baseball plays out. It's pretty messy and odd things are happening all the time that leave you scratching your head as to how your favorite team could play that poorly, or how that player could have decided to do such a dumb thing or make such a stupid error. Do you really want the game sanitized and sterile? So clear cut that you can predict every outcome based on something? I don't. But if you do, then perhaps they do need to make competitive mode even worse than it is now so you are able to calculate the outcomes based on 100% user input. I simply do not see how that could be fun for anyone, and would indeed lead to your players not mattering.
This is good to keep in mind, and pretty well explained.
It's like in D&D terms, there are buffs and debuffs -- stats competing against each other. So the result is affected by more than YOUR stats and input, it's also affected by the other guy's stats.
Might be horrific to ponder, but FOR INSTANCE -- if you throw a perfect pitch with a good pitcher but the hitter has great stats, there's a man on second with 2 outs, and the hitter's clutch attribute is high and yours is average/low...MAYBE that triggers a meatball?
I would vote for attributes like clutch being deactivated in RS so "stick skills reign supreme" in a more solid way.
-
A admin locked this topic on
