When are we getting a “next gen” game?
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@medieval9029_xbl said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
@sean_87__psn said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
They would have to use a physics engine to do it right. No sports game company currently uses a true physics based engine. If they did, you would not see the rating scale. For example, you would see everything measured in inches, feet, seconds, mph etc
Dude no one cares that much
As fun as it would be, this.
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@medieval9029_xbl said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
@sean_87__psn said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
They would have to use a physics engine to do it right. No sports game company currently uses a true physics based engine. If they did, you would not see the rating scale. For example, you would see everything measured in inches, feet, seconds, mph etc
Dude no one cares that much
Maybe you are right. That’s probably why the games don’t really improve mechanically from year to year.
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I’m right there with you! I was really expecting way more.in terms of better physics and graphics for next gen. I still can’t believe collisions aren’t even in the game yet. Yikes
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@sean_87__psn said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
@medieval9029_xbl said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
@sean_87__psn said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
They would have to use a physics engine to do it right. No sports game company currently uses a true physics based engine. If they did, you would not see the rating scale. For example, you would see everything measured in inches, feet, seconds, mph etc
Dude no one cares that much
Maybe you are right. That’s probably why the games don’t really improve mechanically from year to year.
Games don't drastically change from year to year but they are just that, year to year. It's just not enough development time for the size of the team to make such dramatic changes
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@rabid55wolverine said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
@sean_87__psn said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
@medieval9029_xbl said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
@sean_87__psn said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
They would have to use a physics engine to do it right. No sports game company currently uses a true physics based engine. If they did, you would not see the rating scale. For example, you would see everything measured in inches, feet, seconds, mph etc
Dude no one cares that much
Maybe you are right. That’s probably why the games don’t really improve mechanically from year to year.
Games don't drastically change from year to year but they are just that, year to year. It's just not enough development time for the size of the team to make such dramatic changes
I understand that, but the game doesn’t really even change every 4-5 years mechanically speaking. Sure, the graphics are updated, but gameplay wise it’s just a tweak here and there. They would have to build from ground up using a physics engine. My whole point was that they are using outdated technology and methods. Don’t you think at some point it’s time to upgrade?
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We won't see a major mechanical change in the game until they stop making the game for the previous gen (ps4). For the ps3 to ps4 it took 3 years for that to happen. In MLB 17 we finally got ball physics. Going on history, the game wont be next gen only until 2024 where we can fully utilize ps5 hardware. So no big changes for 3 years. Yeah, pretty crazy how much the ps4 is going to hold improvements back.
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@sean_87__psn said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
@rabid55wolverine said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
@sean_87__psn said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
@medieval9029_xbl said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
@sean_87__psn said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
They would have to use a physics engine to do it right. No sports game company currently uses a true physics based engine. If they did, you would not see the rating scale. For example, you would see everything measured in inches, feet, seconds, mph etc
Dude no one cares that much
Maybe you are right. That’s probably why the games don’t really improve mechanically from year to year.
Games don't drastically change from year to year but they are just that, year to year. It's just not enough development time for the size of the team to make such dramatic changes
I understand that, but the game doesn’t really even change every 4-5 years mechanically speaking. Sure, the graphics are updated, but gameplay wise it’s just a tweak here and there. They would have to build from ground up using a physics engine. My whole point was that they are using outdated technology and methods. Don’t you think at some point it’s time to upgrade?
Yes I think it is time for an upgrade but what your asking for is a massive, massive thing to undertake and quite impossible in a year to year cycle. I haven't done it but I'm pretty sure there is big differences between 15 and 20 if you go back and play the 2 games. Graphically and game play wise. Overall, the game looks similar yes but there is differences. If you played 15 for 5 years and jumped into 20, im sure it would feel like a huge improvement.
I dont know about things like real world stuff that players will be based on. How would you do DD with old time players? I doubt there is true real statistical information to create players from the 20s. Or possibly the negro leagues, there is such spotty information about that so diamond dynasty would be just live teams? They will not nor should they have different versions of the game for DD and say franchise so what you are asking for isn't really on the plate at all to replace ratings and I seriously doubt that it will happen in the near future either. Ratings will probably always be around.
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If you have video footage, you have the answers right there. You know the scale of the field, with time you can calculate things like velocity because you know distance already. Yes, I agree, it’s a major overhaul.
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@sean_87__psn said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
If you have video footage, you have the answers right there. You know the scale of the field, with time you can calculate things like velocity because you know distance already. Yes, I agree, it’s a major overhaul.
Two words: sample size. You can’t base anything off one instance of something. That’s why we aggregate data for averages, medians etc. The data is already there in statcast, that’s what the devs use.
Eg if Terrence Long jogs to 1st a few times after he puts a ball into play and then suddenly starts hustling, you want ALL of that data to be included.
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@red_ted_is_back said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
@sean_87__psn said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
If you have video footage, you have the answers right there. You know the scale of the field, with time you can calculate things like velocity because you know distance already. Yes, I agree, it’s a major overhaul.
Two words: sample size. You can’t base anything off one instance of something. That’s why we aggregate data for averages, medians etc. The data is already there in statcast, that’s what the devs use.
Eg if Terrence Long jogs to 1st a few times after he puts a ball into play and then suddenly starts hustling, you want ALL of that data to be included.
Of course, no argument from me on sample size. The Devs use outdated methods and tech to make the game though. We don’t even have collision detection in this game, everyone has the same generic lead off, etc. The game has basically been at its peak for years in terms of gameplay. They need to upgrade to a physics engine to get any better.
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@sean_87__psn said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
we should not see 99 speed, we should see the time measured in seconds it takes to reach their top speed measured in mph. How many seconds does it take them to reach first, second, third, etc.
And how exactly are we going to capture that data for Ty Cobb, Cy Young, Honus, etc?
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@savefarris_psn said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
@sean_87__psn said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
we should not see 99 speed, we should see the time measured in seconds it takes to reach their top speed measured in mph. How many seconds does it take them to reach first, second, third, etc.
And how exactly are we going to capture that data for Ty Cobb, Cy Young, Honus, etc?
If it’s not on video you can’t. I’m glad you brought that up. It goes with my point that the players are not accurately represented. They are basically guessing, and in the case of most of the older players, being completely dishonest about their abilities.
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I actually don’t like this idea about physics because I think it would ruin the competitive edge in order to do it right.
And that’s what makes a large portion of us play this game. If it wasn’t competitive I wouldn’t even buy it...when I feel like it’s lacking competitiveness....I don’t play it.
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@a_perfectgame said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
I actually don’t like this idea about physics because I think it would ruin the competitive edge in order to do it right.
And that’s what makes a large portion of us play this game. If it wasn’t competitive I wouldn’t even buy it...when I feel like it’s lacking competitiveness....I don’t play it.
I’m not sure what you mean by that. Can you elaborate on that? I would think accurately representing the players would only enhance the competition.
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Correct me if I’m wrong.... we’ll get 4K 60 and stadium creator ln Next Gen ... and that’s it? No new textures... more diverse crowd... signature fielding, throwing and running? No collisions?, No flowing hair? No sweat? No Ray Tracing? If not that would be so trash.
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@thegreedyg103 said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
Correct me if I’m wrong.... we’ll get 4K 60 and stadium creator ln Next Gen ... and that’s it? No new textures... more diverse crowd... signature fielding, throwing and running? No collisions?, No flowing hair? No sweat? No Ray Tracing? If not that would be so trash.
The game needs a major overhaul, built from scratch. Who knows, maybe they are working on something for the future, but as it stands now, I believe the game has been at its peak for years. Need physics engine
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@sean_87__psn said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
@thegreedyg103 said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
Correct me if I’m wrong.... we’ll get 4K 60 and stadium creator ln Next Gen ... and that’s it? No new textures... more diverse crowd... signature fielding, throwing and running? No collisions?, No flowing hair? No sweat? No Ray Tracing? If not that would be so trash.
The game needs a major overhaul, built from scratch. Who knows, maybe they are working on something for the future, but as it stands now, I believe the game has been at its peak for years. Need physics engine
This will be a half hearted effort if this is the case. The commentary will probably largely be the same as well with a few random Covid related remarks. As it stands, this will not be a purchase for me
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I don’t think we will see a new engine from them for a few years, I just hope they go with an actual physics engine. There is only so much duck tape they can use on the kind of tech and methods they currently use.
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I think what you're asking for is SDS to completely scratch their current game and rebuild a completely different baseball game. It won't happen because as you said, the game really hasn't even changed since PS3. The most drastic change we've seen was launch of MLB 17 with the "new hitting engine" that saw balls slice and pull down the lives with much more spin/curve based on swing timing and supposedly bat contact. They didn't like the result or people complained too much and they scrapped it within a month of release and that led to basically the same old hit variety we have always seen. The look and feel of the game though, is basically the same since PS3. Differences being players can throw harder (outlier quirk), have more power (99 vs 125 rating) and even that is semantics, and players reactions in the field on balls in play is different based on ratings.
Again, I'm being general, but I bet if you pick up MLB 13 on PS3 and MLB 20, pitch with analog/meter, throw with button accuracy and hit with zone you won't lose a step from one game to the next. While I get your point for physics measuring the avatar players' ability, the real issue is showing the difference between one card to the next. Kevin Keirmaier's ability to get to a ball in the outfield with a top speed is not the same as him trying to run the bases. He's agile, quick, and fast in the field. Watch him try to steal and his top speed does not seem to get as high (I'm guessing because I'm not looking it up, just watch every Rays game) because his reaction on stealing bases isn't as good as his reaction to a ball hit to the outfield. This means you'd need a different speed rating (mph) in the field vs one for running bases and I think this is where it would become an overload on simply using real analytics or numbers.
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@theu715_psn said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
I think what you're asking for is SDS to completely scratch their current game and rebuild a completely different baseball game. It won't happen because as you said, the game really hasn't even changed since PS3. The most drastic change we've seen was launch of MLB 17 with the "new hitting engine" that saw balls slice and pull down the lives with much more spin/curve based on swing timing and supposedly bat contact. They didn't like the result or people complained too much and they scrapped it within a month of release and that led to basically the same old hit variety we have always seen. The look and feel of the game though, is basically the same since PS3. Differences being players can throw harder (outlier quirk), have more power (99 vs 125 rating) and even that is semantics, and players reactions in the field on balls in play is different based on ratings.
Again, I'm being general, but I bet if you pick up MLB 13 on PS3 and MLB 20, pitch with analog/meter, throw with button accuracy and hit with zone you won't lose a step from one game to the next. While I get your point for physics measuring the avatar players' ability, the real issue is showing the difference between one card to the next. Kevin Keirmaier's ability to get to a ball in the outfield with a top speed is not the same as him trying to run the bases. He's agile, quick, and fast in the field. Watch him try to steal and his top speed does not seem to get as high (I'm guessing because I'm not looking it up, just watch every Rays game) because his reaction on stealing bases isn't as good as his reaction to a ball hit to the outfield. This means you'd need a different speed rating (mph) in the field vs one for running bases and I think this is where it would become an overload on simply using real analytics or numbers.
I agree, the players reaction time in outfield is different from running bases. It all needs to be captured, no speed ratings at all, just physics. It can easily be done, the engines already exist. They just have to start over and use them. Once you have the physics engines in place, just have to update the data input from year to year based on the players performance. It is a big overhaul, but it needs to be done. Like you said, they have been building on the same tech for too long.
