When are we getting a “next gen” game?
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@sean_87__psn said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
They would have to use a physics engine to do it right. No sports game company currently uses a true physics based engine. If they did, you would not see the rating scale. For example, you would see everything measured in inches, feet, seconds, mph etc
The ratings do make the user’s evaluations of each player much simpler than if we were given their stats. This is is a game where around 80% of the user base are casual players, after all (Pareto Principle, no hard data to back that up). If those casuals are given hard data to interpret to make decisions, you’d lose them.
If a casual (an online casual noob with a hot pocket and Fanta, if you will) just wants to sub in a pinch runner, what do you think makes the decision easier, especially if playing an online game with the pause timer counting down:
- checking a player’s steal rating and speed rating, or
- having to check take-off acceleration, speed from 1st to 2nd, number of successful steal attempts, how many times they’ve been picked off, what their usual lead is...
That’s per player on the bench, too.
Those are just random factors that popped into my head but hopefully you get what I’m saying.
TL,DR: ratings make the game more accessible to its users.
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@red_ted_is_back said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
@sean_87__psn said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
They would have to use a physics engine to do it right. No sports game company currently uses a true physics based engine. If they did, you would not see the rating scale. For example, you would see everything measured in inches, feet, seconds, mph etc
The ratings do make the user’s evaluations of each player much simpler than if we were given their stats. This is is a game where around 80% of the user base are casual players, after all (Pareto Principle, no hard data to back that up). If those casuals are given hard data to interpret to make decisions, you’d lose them.
If a casual (an online casual noob with a hot pocket and Fanta, if you will) just wants to sub in a pinch runner, what do you think makes the decision easier, especially if playing an online game with the pause timer counting down:
- checking a player’s steal rating and speed rating, or
- having to check take-off acceleration, speed from 1st to 2nd, number of successful steal attempts, how many times they’ve been picked off, what their usual lead is...
That’s per player on the bench, too.
Those are just random factors that popped into my head but hopefully you get what I’m saying.
TL,DR: ratings make the game more accessible to its users.
I understand your point, but I think a casual would be going off names he knows more than anything else. You could always put suggestions to help players make decisions. All I want is an accurate representation of the player’s and physics is the only way to do that. No other way around that one.
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@sean_87__psn said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
They would have to use a physics engine to do it right. No sports game company currently uses a true physics based engine. If they did, you would not see the rating scale. For example, you would see everything measured in inches, feet, seconds, mph etc
Dude no one cares that much
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@medieval9029_xbl said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
@sean_87__psn said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
They would have to use a physics engine to do it right. No sports game company currently uses a true physics based engine. If they did, you would not see the rating scale. For example, you would see everything measured in inches, feet, seconds, mph etc
Dude no one cares that much
As fun as it would be, this.
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@medieval9029_xbl said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
@sean_87__psn said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
They would have to use a physics engine to do it right. No sports game company currently uses a true physics based engine. If they did, you would not see the rating scale. For example, you would see everything measured in inches, feet, seconds, mph etc
Dude no one cares that much
Maybe you are right. That’s probably why the games don’t really improve mechanically from year to year.
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I’m right there with you! I was really expecting way more.in terms of better physics and graphics for next gen. I still can’t believe collisions aren’t even in the game yet. Yikes
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@sean_87__psn said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
@medieval9029_xbl said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
@sean_87__psn said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
They would have to use a physics engine to do it right. No sports game company currently uses a true physics based engine. If they did, you would not see the rating scale. For example, you would see everything measured in inches, feet, seconds, mph etc
Dude no one cares that much
Maybe you are right. That’s probably why the games don’t really improve mechanically from year to year.
Games don't drastically change from year to year but they are just that, year to year. It's just not enough development time for the size of the team to make such dramatic changes
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@rabid55wolverine said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
@sean_87__psn said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
@medieval9029_xbl said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
@sean_87__psn said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
They would have to use a physics engine to do it right. No sports game company currently uses a true physics based engine. If they did, you would not see the rating scale. For example, you would see everything measured in inches, feet, seconds, mph etc
Dude no one cares that much
Maybe you are right. That’s probably why the games don’t really improve mechanically from year to year.
Games don't drastically change from year to year but they are just that, year to year. It's just not enough development time for the size of the team to make such dramatic changes
I understand that, but the game doesn’t really even change every 4-5 years mechanically speaking. Sure, the graphics are updated, but gameplay wise it’s just a tweak here and there. They would have to build from ground up using a physics engine. My whole point was that they are using outdated technology and methods. Don’t you think at some point it’s time to upgrade?
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We won't see a major mechanical change in the game until they stop making the game for the previous gen (ps4). For the ps3 to ps4 it took 3 years for that to happen. In MLB 17 we finally got ball physics. Going on history, the game wont be next gen only until 2024 where we can fully utilize ps5 hardware. So no big changes for 3 years. Yeah, pretty crazy how much the ps4 is going to hold improvements back.
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@sean_87__psn said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
@rabid55wolverine said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
@sean_87__psn said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
@medieval9029_xbl said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
@sean_87__psn said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
They would have to use a physics engine to do it right. No sports game company currently uses a true physics based engine. If they did, you would not see the rating scale. For example, you would see everything measured in inches, feet, seconds, mph etc
Dude no one cares that much
Maybe you are right. That’s probably why the games don’t really improve mechanically from year to year.
Games don't drastically change from year to year but they are just that, year to year. It's just not enough development time for the size of the team to make such dramatic changes
I understand that, but the game doesn’t really even change every 4-5 years mechanically speaking. Sure, the graphics are updated, but gameplay wise it’s just a tweak here and there. They would have to build from ground up using a physics engine. My whole point was that they are using outdated technology and methods. Don’t you think at some point it’s time to upgrade?
Yes I think it is time for an upgrade but what your asking for is a massive, massive thing to undertake and quite impossible in a year to year cycle. I haven't done it but I'm pretty sure there is big differences between 15 and 20 if you go back and play the 2 games. Graphically and game play wise. Overall, the game looks similar yes but there is differences. If you played 15 for 5 years and jumped into 20, im sure it would feel like a huge improvement.
I dont know about things like real world stuff that players will be based on. How would you do DD with old time players? I doubt there is true real statistical information to create players from the 20s. Or possibly the negro leagues, there is such spotty information about that so diamond dynasty would be just live teams? They will not nor should they have different versions of the game for DD and say franchise so what you are asking for isn't really on the plate at all to replace ratings and I seriously doubt that it will happen in the near future either. Ratings will probably always be around.
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If you have video footage, you have the answers right there. You know the scale of the field, with time you can calculate things like velocity because you know distance already. Yes, I agree, it’s a major overhaul.
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@sean_87__psn said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
If you have video footage, you have the answers right there. You know the scale of the field, with time you can calculate things like velocity because you know distance already. Yes, I agree, it’s a major overhaul.
Two words: sample size. You can’t base anything off one instance of something. That’s why we aggregate data for averages, medians etc. The data is already there in statcast, that’s what the devs use.
Eg if Terrence Long jogs to 1st a few times after he puts a ball into play and then suddenly starts hustling, you want ALL of that data to be included.
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@red_ted_is_back said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
@sean_87__psn said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
If you have video footage, you have the answers right there. You know the scale of the field, with time you can calculate things like velocity because you know distance already. Yes, I agree, it’s a major overhaul.
Two words: sample size. You can’t base anything off one instance of something. That’s why we aggregate data for averages, medians etc. The data is already there in statcast, that’s what the devs use.
Eg if Terrence Long jogs to 1st a few times after he puts a ball into play and then suddenly starts hustling, you want ALL of that data to be included.
Of course, no argument from me on sample size. The Devs use outdated methods and tech to make the game though. We don’t even have collision detection in this game, everyone has the same generic lead off, etc. The game has basically been at its peak for years in terms of gameplay. They need to upgrade to a physics engine to get any better.
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@sean_87__psn said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
we should not see 99 speed, we should see the time measured in seconds it takes to reach their top speed measured in mph. How many seconds does it take them to reach first, second, third, etc.
And how exactly are we going to capture that data for Ty Cobb, Cy Young, Honus, etc?
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@savefarris_psn said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
@sean_87__psn said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
we should not see 99 speed, we should see the time measured in seconds it takes to reach their top speed measured in mph. How many seconds does it take them to reach first, second, third, etc.
And how exactly are we going to capture that data for Ty Cobb, Cy Young, Honus, etc?
If it’s not on video you can’t. I’m glad you brought that up. It goes with my point that the players are not accurately represented. They are basically guessing, and in the case of most of the older players, being completely dishonest about their abilities.
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I actually don’t like this idea about physics because I think it would ruin the competitive edge in order to do it right.
And that’s what makes a large portion of us play this game. If it wasn’t competitive I wouldn’t even buy it...when I feel like it’s lacking competitiveness....I don’t play it.
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@a_perfectgame said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
I actually don’t like this idea about physics because I think it would ruin the competitive edge in order to do it right.
And that’s what makes a large portion of us play this game. If it wasn’t competitive I wouldn’t even buy it...when I feel like it’s lacking competitiveness....I don’t play it.
I’m not sure what you mean by that. Can you elaborate on that? I would think accurately representing the players would only enhance the competition.
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Correct me if I’m wrong.... we’ll get 4K 60 and stadium creator ln Next Gen ... and that’s it? No new textures... more diverse crowd... signature fielding, throwing and running? No collisions?, No flowing hair? No sweat? No Ray Tracing? If not that would be so trash.
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@thegreedyg103 said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
Correct me if I’m wrong.... we’ll get 4K 60 and stadium creator ln Next Gen ... and that’s it? No new textures... more diverse crowd... signature fielding, throwing and running? No collisions?, No flowing hair? No sweat? No Ray Tracing? If not that would be so trash.
The game needs a major overhaul, built from scratch. Who knows, maybe they are working on something for the future, but as it stands now, I believe the game has been at its peak for years. Need physics engine
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@sean_87__psn said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
@thegreedyg103 said in When are we getting a “next gen” game?:
Correct me if I’m wrong.... we’ll get 4K 60 and stadium creator ln Next Gen ... and that’s it? No new textures... more diverse crowd... signature fielding, throwing and running? No collisions?, No flowing hair? No sweat? No Ray Tracing? If not that would be so trash.
The game needs a major overhaul, built from scratch. Who knows, maybe they are working on something for the future, but as it stands now, I believe the game has been at its peak for years. Need physics engine
This will be a half hearted effort if this is the case. The commentary will probably largely be the same as well with a few random Covid related remarks. As it stands, this will not be a purchase for me
