MLB 21 Product Description (Interesting Note)

SDS

https://www.gamestop.com/video-games/playstation-4/games/products/mlb-the-show-21/11112941.html?condition=New

Check out the product description. This one is interesting ...

"Competitive: User stick skills reign supreme. Our online H2H default."

If this is what it sounds like, it could mean that RNG is being reduced or lowered to a minimum.

SDS

@theu715 said in MLB 21 Product Description (Interesting Note):

https://www.gamestop.com/video-games/playstation-4/games/products/mlb-the-show-21/11112941.html?condition=New

Check out the product description. This one is interesting ...

"Competitive: User stick skills reign supreme. Our online H2H default."

If this is what it sounds like, it could mean that RNG is being reduced or lowered to a minimum.

That could mean just online h2h though and not DD. Online h2h and DD play different already.

SDS

That is possible. Didn't think about that at all. Would be comical at best if they advertise that user input matters more in H2H mode and matters less in DD. They aren't directly saying that, but if you're right, it's being implied.

SDS

They say that every year dude

SDS

I've never seen them say something that direct. With that in mind, I'm not dumb. SDS plays the community every year with a major gameplay update, only to patch it after 2 weeks to a month and essentially back pedal. This also causes more issues with the game that are then patched and patched and patched for months. I only thought it would be interesting that they'd say this with as much complaining that goes on about RNG. Especially from a pitching perspective this year.

SDS

My question about that is they said stick skills over card ratings. So, can someone use a common and be better than someone else using a diamond? I guess that's good, maybe, but can't say for sure. And what would be the point of getting better cards then?

SDS

@bhall09 said in MLB 21 Product Description (Interesting Note):

My question about that is they said stick skills over card ratings. So, can someone use a common and be better than someone else using a diamond? I guess that's good, maybe, but can't say for sure. And what would be the point of getting better cards then?

This would be a lazier way to look at it. Card's ratings should matter. They just shouldn't matter in the outcome. They should matter in the way the card is used. Lower contact, noticeably smaller PCI. Poor vision, smaller timing window. Low power, lower exit velo ability than high power guys. Pitchers with high control should have bigger contact spots on the meter or analog bars. Low BB/9 should mean the ball cursor is shakier when you try and pick your location. These are ways you can make the game have more importance on user input, but still make card ratings matter. Problem is, it would mean a total overhaul to the game's mechanics and SDS won't do that.

SDS

If they lessen a cards ability to perform I will not be buying this year. Need to hear more on this. There is already a huge divide between joystick jockies and average players. Cards abilities mattering less would change the game from a baseball sim to a fiasco.

SDS

@Vipersneak said in MLB 21 Product Description (Interesting Note):

If they lessen a cards ability to perform I will not be buying this year. Need to hear more on this. There is already a huge divide between joystick jockies and average players. Cards abilities mattering less would change the game from a baseball sim to a fiasco.

These are comments I'm interested in hearing people respond with and come up with productive ways to make the game better. Personally, I can understand hitting results having some RNG in it to an extent. What I can't understand is why the pitching now has RNG. The game should not cause pitches to hang or when you miss go the complete opposite direction of where you miss. This isn't a good way to implement a card's ratings. User input should matter in pitching more than any other aspect of the game, but it has slowly been chipped away at since '18.

So, as someone who it sounds like, and maybe I'm wrong, but you'd like card stats to matter more, how should the game reward user input based a cards rating? I'm not looking for an argument. I'd truly like to hear productive ideas on how a card's ratings should make the game play. I mentioned my opinion above on how to make the ratings matter, but it would definitely lead to the user needing to be much better with the controller.

SDS

@theu715 said in MLB 21 Product Description (Interesting Note):

@Vipersneak said in MLB 21 Product Description (Interesting Note):

If they lessen a cards ability to perform I will not be buying this year. Need to hear more on this. There is already a huge divide between joystick jockies and average players. Cards abilities mattering less would change the game from a baseball sim to a fiasco.

These are comments I'm interested in hearing people respond with and come up with productive ways to make the game better. Personally, I can understand hitting results having some RNG in it to an extent. What I can't understand is why the pitching now has RNG. The game should not cause pitches to hang or when you miss go the complete opposite direction of where you miss. This isn't a good way to implement a card's ratings. User input should matter in pitching more than any other aspect of the game, but it has slowly been chipped away at since '18.

So, as someone who it sounds like, and maybe I'm wrong, but you'd like card stats to matter more, how should the game reward user input based a cards rating? I'm not looking for an argument. I'd truly like to hear productive ideas on how a card's ratings should make the game play. I mentioned my opinion above on how to make the ratings matter, but it would definitely lead to the user needing to be much better with the controller.

The issue really breaks down to lack of improvement upon the pitching inputs. The analog input for example prior to MLB 18 was basically an automatic system where you could hit any spot you wanted.

If I wanted to make sure a pitch stayed down I'd ensure the meter went past the yellow line. In that set up I was able to exercise more control effectively, with pitchers who didn't necessarily have good control ratings. Essentially misses on the meter could be intentional and you weren't getting punished.

They needed to interject some RNG on the pitching side, but it should only be affecting poor inputs. I don't like secondary pitches getting a random penalty. I don't like good inputs getting left over the plate. Effective pitching is keeping your opponent off balance. If I'm dumping sliders and you don't quit chasing them, the game should not intervene to save you from yourself. That is ruining the competitive nature of the game.

Pitch inputs are harder to execute now which is a good thing. Randomness to the location of poor input pitches is fine as well. If penalties for secondary pitches are going to continue, there needs to be a visual representation of when that is likely to occur. A simple usage meter that tracks pitches and let's you know when you've over used it isn't hard to implement, MLB2K had it. Ah, and expand that strikezone a pinch as well, the lack of 50/50 balls and balls catching the edge of the zone getting non-calls is incredibly one sided to the batter.

SDS

@theu715 said in MLB 21 Product Description (Interesting Note):

@bhall09 said in MLB 21 Product Description (Interesting Note):

My question about that is they said stick skills over card ratings. So, can someone use a common and be better than someone else using a diamond? I guess that's good, maybe, but can't say for sure. And what would be the point of getting better cards then?

This would be a lazier way to look at it. Card's ratings should matter. They just shouldn't matter in the outcome. They should matter in the way the card is used. Lower contact, noticeably smaller PCI. Poor vision, smaller timing window. Low power, lower exit velo ability than high power guys. Pitchers with high control should have bigger contact spots on the meter or analog bars. Low BB/9 should mean the ball cursor is shakier when you try and pick your location. These are ways you can make the game have more importance on user input, but still make card ratings matter. Problem is, it would mean a total overhaul to the game's mechanics and SDS won't do that.

Re: overhaul of mechanics, they will do it, but it’s a matter of when. It happens at least once per console generation. It is an incredibly complex thing to do which is why once something is implemented, it’s not replaced for a long time.

SDS

@theu715 said in MLB 21 Product Description (Interesting Note):

@Vipersneak said in MLB 21 Product Description (Interesting Note):

If they lessen a cards ability to perform I will not be buying this year. Need to hear more on this. There is already a huge divide between joystick jockies and average players. Cards abilities mattering less would change the game from a baseball sim to a fiasco.

These are comments I'm interested in hearing people respond with and come up with productive ways to make the game better. Personally, I can understand hitting results having some RNG in it to an extent. What I can't understand is why the pitching now has RNG. The game should not cause pitches to hang or when you miss go the complete opposite direction of where you miss. This isn't a good way to implement a card's ratings. User input should matter in pitching more than any other aspect of the game, but it has slowly been chipped away at since '18.

So, as someone who it sounds like, and maybe I'm wrong, but you'd like card stats to matter more, how should the game reward user input based a cards rating? I'm not looking for an argument. I'd truly like to hear productive ideas on how a card's ratings should make the game play. I mentioned my opinion above on how to make the ratings matter, but it would definitely lead to the user needing to be much better with the controller.

I think that is where the level comes into play IE R,V,AS,HOF,LEG. I agree that Pitching should have 0 RNG.

SDS

@dbarmonstar said in MLB 21 Product Description (Interesting Note):

@theu715 said in MLB 21 Product Description (Interesting Note):

@Vipersneak said in MLB 21 Product Description (Interesting Note):

If they lessen a cards ability to perform I will not be buying this year. Need to hear more on this. There is already a huge divide between joystick jockies and average players. Cards abilities mattering less would change the game from a baseball sim to a fiasco.

These are comments I'm interested in hearing people respond with and come up with productive ways to make the game better. Personally, I can understand hitting results having some RNG in it to an extent. What I can't understand is why the pitching now has RNG. The game should not cause pitches to hang or when you miss go the complete opposite direction of where you miss. This isn't a good way to implement a card's ratings. User input should matter in pitching more than any other aspect of the game, but it has slowly been chipped away at since '18.

So, as someone who it sounds like, and maybe I'm wrong, but you'd like card stats to matter more, how should the game reward user input based a cards rating? I'm not looking for an argument. I'd truly like to hear productive ideas on how a card's ratings should make the game play. I mentioned my opinion above on how to make the ratings matter, but it would definitely lead to the user needing to be much better with the controller.

I think that is where the level comes into play IE R,V,AS,HOF,LEG. I agree that Pitching should have 0 RNG.

What about button pitching - the one where you simply aim and press? That’s an interface isn’t it? Needs to be some RNG based on player attributes there.

SDS

@Red_Ted_is_back said in MLB 21 Product Description (Interesting Note):

@dbarmonstar said in MLB 21 Product Description (Interesting Note):

@theu715 said in MLB 21 Product Description (Interesting Note):

@Vipersneak said in MLB 21 Product Description (Interesting Note):

If they lessen a cards ability to perform I will not be buying this year. Need to hear more on this. There is already a huge divide between joystick jockies and average players. Cards abilities mattering less would change the game from a baseball sim to a fiasco.

These are comments I'm interested in hearing people respond with and come up with productive ways to make the game better. Personally, I can understand hitting results having some RNG in it to an extent. What I can't understand is why the pitching now has RNG. The game should not cause pitches to hang or when you miss go the complete opposite direction of where you miss. This isn't a good way to implement a card's ratings. User input should matter in pitching more than any other aspect of the game, but it has slowly been chipped away at since '18.

So, as someone who it sounds like, and maybe I'm wrong, but you'd like card stats to matter more, how should the game reward user input based a cards rating? I'm not looking for an argument. I'd truly like to hear productive ideas on how a card's ratings should make the game play. I mentioned my opinion above on how to make the ratings matter, but it would definitely lead to the user needing to be much better with the controller.

I think that is where the level comes into play IE R,V,AS,HOF,LEG. I agree that Pitching should have 0 RNG.

What about button pitching - the one where you simply aim and press? That’s an interface isn’t it? Needs to be some RNG based on player attributes there.

Yes, I'd agree with this comment. If the game does allow for button pitching with the same simplicity it has now, then it has to have RNG. If it utilized more of the approach I mentioned in the above comments to make placing the ball more difficult based on the card's ratings, then that could be toned down drastically, but frankly just the button pitching shouldn't be allowed online. Pulse should be the most simplistic approach.

SDS

@Chuck_Dizzle29 said in MLB 21 Product Description (Interesting Note):

@theu715 said in MLB 21 Product Description (Interesting Note):

@Vipersneak said in MLB 21 Product Description (Interesting Note):

If they lessen a cards ability to perform I will not be buying this year. Need to hear more on this. There is already a huge divide between joystick jockies and average players. Cards abilities mattering less would change the game from a baseball sim to a fiasco.

These are comments I'm interested in hearing people respond with and come up with productive ways to make the game better. Personally, I can understand hitting results having some RNG in it to an extent. What I can't understand is why the pitching now has RNG. The game should not cause pitches to hang or when you miss go the complete opposite direction of where you miss. This isn't a good way to implement a card's ratings. User input should matter in pitching more than any other aspect of the game, but it has slowly been chipped away at since '18.

So, as someone who it sounds like, and maybe I'm wrong, but you'd like card stats to matter more, how should the game reward user input based a cards rating? I'm not looking for an argument. I'd truly like to hear productive ideas on how a card's ratings should make the game play. I mentioned my opinion above on how to make the ratings matter, but it would definitely lead to the user needing to be much better with the controller.

The issue really breaks down to lack of improvement upon the pitching inputs. The analog input for example prior to MLB 18 was basically an automatic system where you could hit any spot you wanted.

If I wanted to make sure a pitch stayed down I'd ensure the meter went past the yellow line. In that set up I was able to exercise more control effectively, with pitchers who didn't necessarily have good control ratings. Essentially misses on the meter could be intentional and you weren't getting punished.

They needed to interject some RNG on the pitching side, but it should only be affecting poor inputs. I don't like secondary pitches getting a random penalty. I don't like good inputs getting left over the plate. Effective pitching is keeping your opponent off balance. If I'm dumping sliders and you don't quit chasing them, the game should not intervene to save you from yourself. That is ruining the competitive nature of the game.

Pitch inputs are harder to execute now which is a good thing. Randomness to the location of poor input pitches is fine as well. If penalties for secondary pitches are going to continue, there needs to be a visual representation of when that is likely to occur. A simple usage meter that tracks pitches and let's you know when you've over used it isn't hard to implement, MLB2K had it. Ah, and expand that strikezone a pinch as well, the lack of 50/50 balls and balls catching the edge of the zone getting non-calls is incredibly one sided to the batter.

You absolutely nailed a lot of the things I think are issues and SDS has gone the lazier route towards handling. You're right, back in 18 I believe they said you can't spam pitches down in the zone anymore and it forced the pitches up. I believe that between that coding and whatever they've added to the RNG for pitching has caused pitching to feel the way it is today.

If pitches are going to have some RNG to them, I should be able to see the outcome. Kinda like when using pulse pitching. The cursor gets bigger and smaller and based on your input you can see within that circle where the ball could end up. Bad input and the circle is large, meaning it could go all over the place. Great/perfect input and it's a dot, so you know you've hit your spot. There's nothing that shows this for meter and analog. Hence when you miss your spot poorly, even if it shows my result as inside on the hitter, too often the pitch misses well outside or hanging over the plate. Add that into the good/perfect input that I see as dotting my location that leaks back over the plate and we have our pitching problems.

Add in the fact that, as you mentioned, pitches on the black aren't called strikes 80% of the time and all the non-called check swings, and pitching is a nightmare now. No hitter can check swing at 4 borderline or even good chase pitches and not get rung up by an umpire down the lines, much less the home plate umpire without even asking for help. Make pitches on the black strikes and call strikes on way more check swings and I think it fixes a lot of the problems with pitches hanging because you'd be lowering the pitches a user sees drastically, building the pitchers confidence, and allowing the pitcher to have more stamina later in the game.

SDS

@Red_Ted_is_back said in MLB 21 Product Description (Interesting Note):

@dbarmonstar said in MLB 21 Product Description (Interesting Note):

@theu715 said in MLB 21 Product Description (Interesting Note):

@Vipersneak said in MLB 21 Product Description (Interesting Note):

If they lessen a cards ability to perform I will not be buying this year. Need to hear more on this. There is already a huge divide between joystick jockies and average players. Cards abilities mattering less would change the game from a baseball sim to a fiasco.

These are comments I'm interested in hearing people respond with and come up with productive ways to make the game better. Personally, I can understand hitting results having some RNG in it to an extent. What I can't understand is why the pitching now has RNG. The game should not cause pitches to hang or when you miss go the complete opposite direction of where you miss. This isn't a good way to implement a card's ratings. User input should matter in pitching more than any other aspect of the game, but it has slowly been chipped away at since '18.

So, as someone who it sounds like, and maybe I'm wrong, but you'd like card stats to matter more, how should the game reward user input based a cards rating? I'm not looking for an argument. I'd truly like to hear productive ideas on how a card's ratings should make the game play. I mentioned my opinion above on how to make the ratings matter, but it would definitely lead to the user needing to be much better with the controller.

I think that is where the level comes into play IE R,V,AS,HOF,LEG. I agree that Pitching should have 0 RNG.

What about button pitching - the one where you simply aim and press? That’s an interface isn’t it? Needs to be some RNG based on player attributes there.

That is true but they should not allow that option in DD.

SDS

@theu715 said in MLB 21 Product Description (Interesting Note):

@Red_Ted_is_back said in MLB 21 Product Description (Interesting Note):

@dbarmonstar said in MLB 21 Product Description (Interesting Note):

@theu715 said in MLB 21 Product Description (Interesting Note):

@Vipersneak said in MLB 21 Product Description (Interesting Note):

If they lessen a cards ability to perform I will not be buying this year. Need to hear more on this. There is already a huge divide between joystick jockies and average players. Cards abilities mattering less would change the game from a baseball sim to a fiasco.

These are comments I'm interested in hearing people respond with and come up with productive ways to make the game better. Personally, I can understand hitting results having some RNG in it to an extent. What I can't understand is why the pitching now has RNG. The game should not cause pitches to hang or when you miss go the complete opposite direction of where you miss. This isn't a good way to implement a card's ratings. User input should matter in pitching more than any other aspect of the game, but it has slowly been chipped away at since '18.

So, as someone who it sounds like, and maybe I'm wrong, but you'd like card stats to matter more, how should the game reward user input based a cards rating? I'm not looking for an argument. I'd truly like to hear productive ideas on how a card's ratings should make the game play. I mentioned my opinion above on how to make the ratings matter, but it would definitely lead to the user needing to be much better with the controller.

I think that is where the level comes into play IE R,V,AS,HOF,LEG. I agree that Pitching should have 0 RNG.

What about button pitching - the one where you simply aim and press? That’s an interface isn’t it? Needs to be some RNG based on player attributes there.

Yes, I'd agree with this comment. If the game does allow for button pitching with the same simplicity it has now, then it has to have RNG. If it utilized more of the approach I mentioned in the above comments to make placing the ball more difficult based on the card's ratings, then that could be toned down drastically, but frankly just the button pitching shouldn't be allowed online. Pulse should be the most simplistic approach.

I have only used Meter, I do not like pulse. Never used button. I feel Meter is the best method to get the pitch where you want it base on the Card and how a pitcher pitches. If you know a pitcher has a low control you can still get the pitch where you want it to go by correct input on the Meter.

SDS

@dbarmonstar said in MLB 21 Product Description (Interesting Note):

@theu715 said in MLB 21 Product Description (Interesting Note):

@Red_Ted_is_back said in MLB 21 Product Description (Interesting Note):

@dbarmonstar said in MLB 21 Product Description (Interesting Note):

@theu715 said in MLB 21 Product Description (Interesting Note):

@Vipersneak said in MLB 21 Product Description (Interesting Note):

If they lessen a cards ability to perform I will not be buying this year. Need to hear more on this. There is already a huge divide between joystick jockies and average players. Cards abilities mattering less would change the game from a baseball sim to a fiasco.

These are comments I'm interested in hearing people respond with and come up with productive ways to make the game better. Personally, I can understand hitting results having some RNG in it to an extent. What I can't understand is why the pitching now has RNG. The game should not cause pitches to hang or when you miss go the complete opposite direction of where you miss. This isn't a good way to implement a card's ratings. User input should matter in pitching more than any other aspect of the game, but it has slowly been chipped away at since '18.

So, as someone who it sounds like, and maybe I'm wrong, but you'd like card stats to matter more, how should the game reward user input based a cards rating? I'm not looking for an argument. I'd truly like to hear productive ideas on how a card's ratings should make the game play. I mentioned my opinion above on how to make the ratings matter, but it would definitely lead to the user needing to be much better with the controller.

I think that is where the level comes into play IE R,V,AS,HOF,LEG. I agree that Pitching should have 0 RNG.

What about button pitching - the one where you simply aim and press? That’s an interface isn’t it? Needs to be some RNG based on player attributes there.

Yes, I'd agree with this comment. If the game does allow for button pitching with the same simplicity it has now, then it has to have RNG. If it utilized more of the approach I mentioned in the above comments to make placing the ball more difficult based on the card's ratings, then that could be toned down drastically, but frankly just the button pitching shouldn't be allowed online. Pulse should be the most simplistic approach.

I have only used Meter, I do not like pulse. Never used button. I feel Meter is the best method to get the pitch where you want it base on the Card and how a pitcher pitches. If you know a pitcher has a low control you can still get the pitch where you want it to go by correct input on the Meter.

I truly believe the RNG involved on bad input is more or less pulse without the actual circle on your screen.

I.E. the more off your input is, the larger the "area" of possibility is for the ball location. The more accurate you are, the smaller the area is.

But from others experiences, it sounds like at times, no matter the input on analog/meter, RNG rules the day.

SDS

@lucas8181 said in MLB 21 Product Description (Interesting Note):

@dbarmonstar said in MLB 21 Product Description (Interesting Note):

@theu715 said in MLB 21 Product Description (Interesting Note):

@Red_Ted_is_back said in MLB 21 Product Description (Interesting Note):

@dbarmonstar said in MLB 21 Product Description (Interesting Note):

@theu715 said in MLB 21 Product Description (Interesting Note):

@Vipersneak said in MLB 21 Product Description (Interesting Note):

If they lessen a cards ability to perform I will not be buying this year. Need to hear more on this. There is already a huge divide between joystick jockies and average players. Cards abilities mattering less would change the game from a baseball sim to a fiasco.

These are comments I'm interested in hearing people respond with and come up with productive ways to make the game better. Personally, I can understand hitting results having some RNG in it to an extent. What I can't understand is why the pitching now has RNG. The game should not cause pitches to hang or when you miss go the complete opposite direction of where you miss. This isn't a good way to implement a card's ratings. User input should matter in pitching more than any other aspect of the game, but it has slowly been chipped away at since '18.

So, as someone who it sounds like, and maybe I'm wrong, but you'd like card stats to matter more, how should the game reward user input based a cards rating? I'm not looking for an argument. I'd truly like to hear productive ideas on how a card's ratings should make the game play. I mentioned my opinion above on how to make the ratings matter, but it would definitely lead to the user needing to be much better with the controller.

I think that is where the level comes into play IE R,V,AS,HOF,LEG. I agree that Pitching should have 0 RNG.

What about button pitching - the one where you simply aim and press? That’s an interface isn’t it? Needs to be some RNG based on player attributes there.

Yes, I'd agree with this comment. If the game does allow for button pitching with the same simplicity it has now, then it has to have RNG. If it utilized more of the approach I mentioned in the above comments to make placing the ball more difficult based on the card's ratings, then that could be toned down drastically, but frankly just the button pitching shouldn't be allowed online. Pulse should be the most simplistic approach.

I have only used Meter, I do not like pulse. Never used button. I feel Meter is the best method to get the pitch where you want it base on the Card and how a pitcher pitches. If you know a pitcher has a low control you can still get the pitch where you want it to go by correct input on the Meter.

I truly believe the RNG involved on bad input is more or less pulse without the actual circle on your screen.

I.E. the more off your input is, the larger the "area" of possibility is for the ball location. The more accurate you are, the smaller the area is.

But from others experiences, it sounds like at times, no matter the input on analog/meter, RNG rules the day.

To a a large extent, I think this is what happens as well. If it's the case, they should simply show us on screen. On the flip side, there are plenty of times where my input is perfect (analog pitching) and the ball goes to the complete opposite side I set up on or hangs up towards the middle. Change ups and curveballs tend to stay in the zone, even when thrown in the dirt and sliders, cutters or 2-seamers will stay towards the middle of the plate.

The biggest issue with this, IMO, is that we can't see it. If it's really like pulse pitching and there's a window, let me see that window so I can set up my pitch better based on where I have a higher tendency to miss my input. Otherwise, the misses should miss towards the location you miss on the meter/analog. Late release should be down more, early release should be high, etc.

SDS

You guys do realize that whatever pitching is in the game that you have to hit against it too? Why do I see some of the same people that want no pitching RNG also complain hitting is too hard ? Careful what you ask for.