Secondary pitch penalty
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I don’t have the actual answer to your question, but I’m not convinced this secondary pitch penalty was in effect for the last half of the year.
I think the bigger issue is whether there will there still be random outcomes on pitches with good input. Sometimes this seemed to happen more with secondary pitches, but sometimes it happened even with primary pitches.
I would argue that spamming pitches in the dirt sort of has a natural consequence of passed balls and wild pitches. I don’t think the natural consequence of a good input pitch (primary OR secondary) on a corner is for it to tunnel down the middle.
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@raesONE said in Secondary pitch penalty:
@LankyRyan said in Secondary pitch penalty:
@raesONE said in Secondary pitch penalty:
@LankyRyan said in Secondary pitch penalty:
Honestly have never heard of this. Can you elaborate on what the penalty is?
Yes I can, most pitchers have a fastball as a primary pitch and let's say a slider, curveball and changeup as secondary pitches. If you throw (I believe) 3 or more of those secondary pitches consecutively (doesn't matter which one, as long as the primary pitch, the fastball, isn't included in the sequence), you will get penalized by either throwing the pitch in a hittable location or giving up a passed ball/wild pitch because you lose a significant amount of control at that point.
So basically if you're terrible and you sit fastball all the way on every pitch, like many players do in this game, you as an opposing pitcher are forced at some point to pitch into their strengths despite you knowing their weakness (offspeed) or you'll give up baserunners, passed balls, wild pitches or hanging meatballs.
Got it. Yeah, the hittable and wild pitches are definitely a thing, I just never correlated that as a symptom of throwing too many secondary pitches previously.
They said so on steam early year that throwing secondary pitches too often would be penalized because last year (18) the meta was for everyone to consistently spam offspeed and the fastball became obsolete. So instead of increasing pitch speeds to bring back the skill gap and make below average players put in more effort to get better, they decided to penalize the (over)use of offspeed pitches.
Pitch speed is not the problem, not everyone play on a 1ms monitor . PCI size is the problem. Early swingers making contact when they have no business and don't get me started with people making contact on balls in the dirt.
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@yankblan said in Secondary pitch penalty:
It makes sense because IRL pitchers throw about 60% fastballs (all varieties combined), 25-30% secondary/srike out pitch and 10-15 % 3rd pitch and beyond. Of course there’s outliers but online very few players pitch around or above 50% FBs. Not many pitchers throw 40-50% curves/sliders, even changeups for that matter. The other way would be to drastically decrease secondary pitches ratings, but that is another can of worms entirely. Since sport video games always end up having metas and exploits, it’s a lesser evil. Anyway it affects more the lower levels, not many guys WS or above will go for the dirt ball all game. Since you seem to be a very good player from what I can gather from your posts, it shouldn’t affect your ability to compete much. And most real life dingers are mistakes that end up being a meatball. That’s the way I see it; in 18 all you needed was a sinker or splitter to get by.
I guarantee you if an opposing team can not touch a pitcher's slider or curveball in real life, they will throw it until they show otherwise. Either way, the point remains that I shouldn't be forced to move away from something that's working just because my opponent can't hit it.
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I mean, your point is valid to a certain extent, but no pitcher would only throw the slider or the curveball in the dirt over and over. I know we saw McCullers throw, what, like 12 consecutive deuces in the playoffs a couple years back, but that was quite exceptional, and many of them were in the zone for strikes.
The difference between RL baseball and video game baseball, in this case, is that it is WAY more difficult to recognize breaking pitches in the game.
I’m not really a fan of anything that changes the outcome of a pitch with good input, but if you want to only spam breaking stuff in the dirt, I don’t think you’re going to be successful, regardless. Sooner or later you’ll have to throw a strike.
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@raesONE said in Secondary pitch penalty:
Unfortunately I wasn't able to watch all the SDS streams in recent days and I was wondering if they mentioned anything about the current pitching mechanics where you get penalized if you consistently throw your secondary pitches without mixing in your primary pitch?
I always hated this feature. If you can't lay off curveballs in the dirt, there's literally no reason for me to pitch anything else to you until you adjust. The game forcing me to do so anyway always felt like an intentional attempt to narrow the skill gap. I hope this is a thing for the past in 20.
So, did they mention anything related to this?
The simple answer is no. The more complicated answer is why? Whether its unrealistic or not, if you or your opponent cant hit a curveball it is on the player to adjust, there is absolutely no reason for SDS to fix that. FYI I play CPU, so dont call me a spammer, I just dont understand what you are look
The other big difference is MLB players are professional who will eventually pick up and hit that pitch that is thrown over and over again. In a video game you are playing against someone who is not on the same level as you and can't lay off. The whole reason RNG is to allow a player to use a real life player who would not be fooled. So really this is an RNG type issue. And I am sure you can tell that we have only seen more RNG and less user input, so do not expect this "penalty" to ever go away.
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Hoboadam posted that video of McCullers from a couple years back over in general discussion. 24 curveballs in a row, but I don’t think he bounced a single one, and lots of them were in the zone.
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@nflman2033 said in Secondary pitch penalty:
@raesONE said in Secondary pitch penalty:
Unfortunately I wasn't able to watch all the SDS streams in recent days and I was wondering if they mentioned anything about the current pitching mechanics where you get penalized if you consistently throw your secondary pitches without mixing in your primary pitch?
I always hated this feature. If you can't lay off curveballs in the dirt, there's literally no reason for me to pitch anything else to you until you adjust. The game forcing me to do so anyway always felt like an intentional attempt to narrow the skill gap. I hope this is a thing for the past in 20.
So, did they mention anything related to this?
The simple answer is no. The more complicated answer is why? Whether its unrealistic or not, if you or your opponent cant hit a curveball it is on the player to adjust, there is absolutely no reason for SDS to fix that. FYI I play CPU, so dont call me a spammer, I just dont understand what you are look
The other big difference is MLB players are professional who will eventually pick up and hit that pitch that is thrown over and over again. In a video game you are playing against someone who is not on the same level as you and can't lay off. The whole reason RNG is to allow a player to use a real life player who would not be fooled. So really this is an RNG type issue. And I am sure you can tell that we have only seen more RNG and less user input, so do not expect this "penalty" to ever go away.
I'm confused by your comment. I'm saying I don't want to be penalized if my opponent can't lay off pitches
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I think he is saying the “penalty” will still be there.
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@halfbutt said in Secondary pitch penalty:
I think he is saying the “penalty” will still be there.
Gotcha.
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@raesONE said in Secondary pitch penalty:
@halfbutt said in Secondary pitch penalty:
I think he is saying the “penalty” will still be there.
Gotcha.
Yup, exactly. They have shown that skill gap is not something they are in favor of.
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To answer the original question, no they didn’t mention it in any of the streams this year. Or if they did, my bad, I must have blinked and missed it.
Hopefully it’s gone and handled in a more realistic way.
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@Red_Ted_is_back said in Secondary pitch penalty:
To answer the original question, no they didn’t mention it in any of the streams this year. Or if they did, my bad, I must have blinked and missed it.
Hopefully it’s gone and handled in a more realistic way.
Thank you.
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The one thing they do continue to mention is they are trying make the gameplay more skill based. I might be the only one sold on that one though lol.
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@MrGamebred said in Secondary pitch penalty:
The one thing they do continue to mention is they are trying make the gameplay more skill based. I might be the only one sold on that one though lol.
I mean I do like what I've seen so far, this thread wasn't meant to be a negative Nancy. I was just wondering if this had changed and tried to explain my motivation behind the question. We'll see what happens, I'll play the game regardless.
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@halfbutt said in Secondary pitch penalty:
I mean, your point is valid to a certain extent, but no pitcher would only throw the slider or the curveball in the dirt over and over. I know we saw McCullers throw, what, like 12 consecutive deuces in the playoffs a couple years back, but that was quite exceptional, and many of them were in the zone for strikes.
The difference between RL baseball and video game baseball, in this case, is that it is WAY more difficult to recognize breaking pitches in the game.
I’m not really a fan of anything that changes the outcome of a pitch with good input, but if you want to only spam breaking stuff in the dirt, I don’t think you’re going to be successful, regardless. Sooner or later you’ll have to throw a strike.
Way more difficult to recongize pitches in a game then RL LOL. Yeah Major leaguers have it easy, Video games are where real men play.
Yes, if a Major League pitcher knew that no batter could lay off or touch one certain pitch every time, he would never throw anything else. No buts, no exceptions. That is what would happen.
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@raesONE said in Secondary pitch penalty:
I mean I do like what I've seen so far, this thread wasn't meant to be a negative Nancy. I was just wondering if this had changed and tried to explain my motivation behind the question. We'll see what happens, I'll play the game regardless.
Its a valid question for sure and definitely interesting discussion.
On the 11th we got the dev tourney going on all day though, so we can get a sneak peak on how it plays. Everything from the beta made me pretty optimistic on the pitching. -
@eatyum said in Secondary pitch penalty:
@halfbutt said in Secondary pitch penalty:
I mean, your point is valid to a certain extent, but no pitcher would only throw the slider or the curveball in the dirt over and over. I know we saw McCullers throw, what, like 12 consecutive deuces in the playoffs a couple years back, but that was quite exceptional, and many of them were in the zone for strikes.
The difference between RL baseball and video game baseball, in this case, is that it is WAY more difficult to recognize breaking pitches in the game.
I’m not really a fan of anything that changes the outcome of a pitch with good input, but if you want to only spam breaking stuff in the dirt, I don’t think you’re going to be successful, regardless. Sooner or later you’ll have to throw a strike.
Way more difficult to recongize pitches in a game then RL LOL. Yeah Major leaguers have it easy, Video games are where real men play.
Yes, if a Major League pitcher knew that no batter could lay off or touch one certain pitch every time, he would never throw anything else. No buts, no exceptions. That is what would happen.
I’m just repeating what I have heard people that have actually played baseball at a higher level say. Why the hostility?
Personally, I can’t see seams of the baseball at all when playing the game.
To say, “no buts or exceptions, this is what a Major League Baseball pitcher would do” is also kind of irrelevant. The OP was talking about spamming pitches in the dirt. Did I touch a nerve or something?
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@halfbutt said in Secondary pitch penalty:
@eatyum said in Secondary pitch penalty:
@halfbutt said in Secondary pitch penalty:
I mean, your point is valid to a certain extent, but no pitcher would only throw the slider or the curveball in the dirt over and over. I know we saw McCullers throw, what, like 12 consecutive deuces in the playoffs a couple years back, but that was quite exceptional, and many of them were in the zone for strikes.
The difference between RL baseball and video game baseball, in this case, is that it is WAY more difficult to recognize breaking pitches in the game.
I’m not really a fan of anything that changes the outcome of a pitch with good input, but if you want to only spam breaking stuff in the dirt, I don’t think you’re going to be successful, regardless. Sooner or later you’ll have to throw a strike.
Way more difficult to recongize pitches in a game then RL LOL. Yeah Major leaguers have it easy, Video games are where real men play.
Yes, if a Major League pitcher knew that no batter could lay off or touch one certain pitch every time, he would never throw anything else. No buts, no exceptions. That is what would happen.
I’m just repeating what I have heard people that have actually played baseball at a higher level say. Why the hostility?
Personally, I can’t see seams of the baseball at all when playing the game.
To say, “no buts or exceptions, this is what a Major League Baseball pitcher would do” is also kind of irrelevant. The OP was talking about spamming pitches in the dirt. Did I touch a nerve or something?
It's not irrelevant. If a pitcher in RL was guaranteed a swing and a miss on every pitch in the dirt, he would do so.
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@halfbutt said in Secondary pitch penalty:
@eatyum said in Secondary pitch penalty:
@halfbutt said in Secondary pitch penalty:
I mean, your point is valid to a certain extent, but no pitcher would only throw the slider or the curveball in the dirt over and over. I know we saw McCullers throw, what, like 12 consecutive deuces in the playoffs a couple years back, but that was quite exceptional, and many of them were in the zone for strikes.
The difference between RL baseball and video game baseball, in this case, is that it is WAY more difficult to recognize breaking pitches in the game.
I’m not really a fan of anything that changes the outcome of a pitch with good input, but if you want to only spam breaking stuff in the dirt, I don’t think you’re going to be successful, regardless. Sooner or later you’ll have to throw a strike.
Way more difficult to recongize pitches in a game then RL LOL. Yeah Major leaguers have it easy, Video games are where real men play.
Yes, if a Major League pitcher knew that no batter could lay off or touch one certain pitch every time, he would never throw anything else. No buts, no exceptions. That is what would happen.
I’m just repeating what I have heard people that have actually played baseball at a higher level say. Why the hostility?
Personally, I can’t see seams of the baseball at all when playing the game.
To say, “no buts or exceptions, this is what a Major League Baseball pitcher would do” is also kind of irrelevant. The OP was talking about spamming pitches in the dirt. Did I touch a nerve or something?
Technically I wasn't talking about spamming pitches in the dirt per se, I'd understand they would sometimes not get blocked by a catcher. I'm talking about throwing offspeed exclusively if that is what my opponent can not touch without being penalized in any way.
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@eatyum said in Secondary pitch penalty:
@halfbutt said in Secondary pitch penalty:
@eatyum said in Secondary pitch penalty:
@halfbutt said in Secondary pitch penalty:
I mean, your point is valid to a certain extent, but no pitcher would only throw the slider or the curveball in the dirt over and over. I know we saw McCullers throw, what, like 12 consecutive deuces in the playoffs a couple years back, but that was quite exceptional, and many of them were in the zone for strikes.
The difference between RL baseball and video game baseball, in this case, is that it is WAY more difficult to recognize breaking pitches in the game.
I’m not really a fan of anything that changes the outcome of a pitch with good input, but if you want to only spam breaking stuff in the dirt, I don’t think you’re going to be successful, regardless. Sooner or later you’ll have to throw a strike.
Way more difficult to recongize pitches in a game then RL LOL. Yeah Major leaguers have it easy, Video games are where real men play.
Yes, if a Major League pitcher knew that no batter could lay off or touch one certain pitch every time, he would never throw anything else. No buts, no exceptions. That is what would happen.
I’m just repeating what I have heard people that have actually played baseball at a higher level say. Why the hostility?
Personally, I can’t see seams of the baseball at all when playing the game.
To say, “no buts or exceptions, this is what a Major League Baseball pitcher would do” is also kind of irrelevant. The OP was talking about spamming pitches in the dirt. Did I touch a nerve or something?
It's not irrelevant. If a pitcher in RL was guaranteed a swing and a miss on every pitch in the dirt, he would do so.
This is 100% accurate