The whole extra step thing

SDS

Sorry to bring this up again guys, but along with the good/ok’s, the perfect releases tunneling to the middle of the plate, and of course the fielding, something really has to be done about the whole base stealing extra step/throw over/step off feud.

Whether you are that guy who needs an extra step lead with 99 speed Ty Cobb, or the guy who refuses to give in on the mound, this dance bears little semblance to anything that happens in real baseball and can derail an otherwise enjoyable game.

SDS

Simple solution: Make pickoffs more effective. Clearly the person that keeps taking the extra step is in the wrong. If they get picked off a couple times they won’t take the extra step again

SDS

@the_dragon1912 said in The whole extra step thing:

Simple solution: Make pickoffs more effective. Clearly the person that keeps taking the extra step is in the wrong. If they get picked off a couple times they won’t take the extra step again

Or make it user-based. Like maybe change it so that the user whose baserunning has to press R1 immediately after a pickoff.

SDS

Yeah, any of those things would help. I’m sure nobody intended for these micro-battles to completely stall the game.

SDS

I played a clown this morning that took the step every single time. I got tired of stepping off, so I pitched out, he stole, and somehow, he was safe. He tried to steal with just about every single runner that got on, and I threw him out every other time...about 5 or 6 base runners. It was gratifying. It's a bush league move to continue to take the extra step, and it's annoying that there's nothing that can be done about it. I steal plenty of bases and I never take the extra step. It's not necessary.

I'd rather pick offs be skill based with a meter similar to catchers throwing out runners. Combine that with necessitating the player controlling the baserunners having to react to get back to first and this problem would disappear. That said, it's been like this for years, so who knows if that'll ever be changed.

SDS

I never complain about the show, or video games. But you're right. This is a stupid, lingering design oversight on their part. I'm gonna numerically ramble.

  1. Leads don't have to be this binary, step/no-step concept. Give more control over leads.

  2. Expand the attributes to include quickness/agility factors for base-runners and pick-off factors for pitchers.

  3. Then if someone's getting a 13-foot lead with Pujols, it's simple. The pitcher throws over, it's 100% out.

  4. An 11-foot lead with Rickey Henderson? You get picked off 2% of the time, or something like that.

  5. Given the above adjustments, make excessive throw-overs punishable by both taxing the pitcher's arm and hurting the defensive rating marginally.

  6. The defensive penalty could also be tied to the heat factor.

  7. Give us a timing mechanism to actually control our jumps if human pitchers aren't controlling the run game properly. Even Pujols steals when you don't pay attention to him, or become so predictable he can get a 20 foot jump.

  8. Combined with the possibility of getting a jump, make humans responsible for getting their player back to the bag.

  9. OTHERWISE, don't let anyone increase their lead. This would be stupid, but less stupid than the current inadequate design.

  10. And if you, given the stupidity of the design decisions in this case, are a baserunner and you take the extra step -- even when the pitcher throws over to indicate he's paying attention. Then no we can't really do anything about it right now. But it says a lot about you as a person. And that's fine. I'm not gonna step off 1000 times like I used to. I'm just gonna accept that your ego is fragile enough to maximize win-rate at the expense of poor game design. That kind of fragility carries over into other areas of your life. Which cyclically reinforces your need to win at base-stealing in order to compensate for the unconscious emptiness increasingly consuming the rest of your life. We see you. It's cool. Take the step.

SDS

First let’s see if they ever get the HOME RUN banner off the screen, then maybe they can work on a glaring legacy issue such as the extra step/pick off throw [censored] that’s been in the game for years.

SDS

@sersimpleton said in The whole extra step thing:

First let’s see if they ever get the HOME RUN banner off the screen, then maybe they can work on a glaring legacy issue such as the extra step/pick off throw foolishness that’s been in the game for years.

SDS

I hate these battles, I have just adjusted. A lot of these guys are taking a lead with no desire of stealing, they want to elicit an errant throw. It's real bush league stuff. They do it because they suck at the game. I dont care about my record, so I don't understand it, so of I lose because they stole 2nd oh well. I used to just quit, since I dont care about the L, but I figure why give them the pleasure.

SDS

They need to remove extra leads in H2H altogether. They obviously can't find a balance and the mechanic doesn't add anything positive to the experience.

SDS

Good posts, you guys.

I wonder, could speed and stealing attributes factor into the size of the standard lead taken?

Good suggestions. Hopefully this will be addressed at SOME point.

SDS

@the_dragon1912 said in The whole extra step thing:

Simple solution: Make pickoffs more effective. Clearly the person that keeps taking the extra step is in the wrong. If they get picked off a couple times they won’t take the extra step again

Pickoffs are extremely effective. I've thrown out tons of guys this year and rarely in the past.

I find the quick move to be more effective vs large leads than the deceptive move which I find more effective if a steal is queued up.

SDS

The reason good base stealers steal bases is not just their speed, but their ability to take larger leads.

Here is a Statcast article going into detail on lead lengths abd how it contributes to a guy like Paul Goldschmidt's ability to steal bases.
https://www.mlb.com/news/paul-goldschmidts-lead-distance-helps-steals/c-141464286

Ty Cobb and Rickey Henderson took big leads all the time, and they certainly take larger leads than David Ortiz, Miguel Cabrera, and Buster Posey 😂 ... It's part of baseball, its what happens...

It's like complaining your opponent is taking to many pitches, or won't throw you enough strikes, or is hitting the ball too far with Joey Gallo.

You know why you can't throw out Rickey with a 1 step bigger lead than David Ortiz? Because that's how far he can lead with his speed!

SDS

In light of those facts, don’t you think it makes sense that a player’s standard lead off first be based on his attributes?

I mean, these are legit points, but I still feel the stalemate that comes in this game so often is really not fun for anyone.

SDS

@halfbutt said in The whole extra step thing:

In light of those facts, don’t you think it makes sense that a player’s standard lead off first be based on his attributes?

I mean, these are legit points, but I still feel the stalemate that comes in this game so often is really not fun for anyone.

Oh a 100%... The standard lead size should be based on baserunning aggressiveness or base stealing attribute. And a standard lead should be based on that... But unfortunately it's a manual process at this point.

SDS

@notoriousHEB said in The whole extra step thing:

@halfbutt said in The whole extra step thing:

In light of those facts, don’t you think it makes sense that a player’s standard lead off first be based on his attributes?

I mean, these are legit points, but I still feel the stalemate that comes in this game so often is really not fun for anyone.

Oh a 100%... The standard lead size should be based on baserunning aggressiveness or base stealing attribute. And a standard lead should be based on that... But unfortunately it's a manual process at this point.

Yeah. The manual process is fine but if a player wants to abuse it, the counter just isn’t strong enough IMO.

SDS

@halfbutt said in The whole extra step thing:

Good posts, you guys.

I wonder, could speed and stealing attributes factor into the size of the standard lead taken?

Good suggestions. Hopefully this will be addressed at SOME point.

They most def could, but it would require a fair bit of work to do it. Would mean less resource for some other kind of gameplay development. But you never know, it could get overhauled in 2022. We’ve had major changes to hitting (18-19) and fielding (20); 2021 will be the year of the pitcher and hopefully after that there might be a base running overhaul.

SDS

Make it fluid.. not extra steps, but gradual leads that are less noticeable

SDS

@sersimpleton said in The whole extra step thing:

First let’s see if they ever get the HOME RUN banner off the screen, then maybe they can work on a glaring legacy issue such as the extra step/pick off throw [censored] that’s been in the game for years.

I found out the trick here:

You know how when it shows your guy crossing the plate, and he’s about to get a congratulatory high five from the next batter? Well, most of us press X just to get on with the game.

Don’t press X. Let them do the little high five or whatever and the banner will go away. It has worked every time since I started doing that.

SDS

@Nanthrax_1 said in The whole extra step thing:

Make it fluid.. not extra steps, but gradual leads that are less noticeable

How? That's not how guys extend leads once they take their initial. You're squared off and half stepping.

Juan Pierre instructing:
https://youtu.be/LHmycBp3HhQ