How is the Community Market feeling?
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@Manu__SDS_MLBTS Hi Manu - it seems like every time you do an update, it works SUPER well at first and gets rid of the bots.
But then they end up creeping back in as the day goes on.
I say this from a place where I have 0 idea what I'm talking about, so take this with a grain of salt....
but is there any way to match the bots with a username? That way their usernames can be banned and they don't sneak back in.
I'm sorry you have to deal with all of this, if only the community didn't constantly try to cheat the system
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@Manu__SDS_MLBTS Not particularly good. First the companion app was slow to respond and constantly "fetching data." Now I am restricted for selling common cards that I had purchased much earlier in the day. Not sure how your filters think I'm a bot (speculation here) with as slow as it took to make the transactions.
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I noticed a big difference this evening after updating the app. The margins between Buy Now & Sell Now prices were more like they were 2-3 years ago, especially on silver, bronze, and common cards. Also wasn't immediately being undercut the second I posted an order so it seemed like there were fewer bots on the market.
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I agree. Just updated the app and noticed a huge difference. As said above, prices seem similar now to what they were years ago. And I didnât get undercut immediately. Thanks.
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@Manu__SDS_MLBTS thanks for checking in. Thereâs def been improvements. Yesterday was especially noticeable that I was able to place buy/sell orders on items and had a fair shot and seeing them through. There was a few items I ran into yesterday that had bots on them but imo their aggressiveness was toned down. After 3 or 4 new bids the bots stopped instantly outbidding and my high or low bid stood for a bit. Whatever youâre doing seems to be disrupting the predictable bot behavior that instantly responds to new bids with higher/lower bids and the instant removal of those higher/lower bids when people withdraw their bids after seeing they arenât able to compete with bots. From my pov, itâs not so much the constant bidding that is problematic, itâs the reactions to bids made/removed that should become targeted - or flagged. Along with other info like log in location/method, console/mobile, active time, etc. speaking from experience, itâs awful being banned and left without access to the market, but strategic boundaries and filters in place, the bots are a problem that can be fought. Iâm glad to see the fight is being had and that sds is in it. Thanks
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@Manu__SDS_MLBTS your unwanted traffic is likely what caused my account to be restricted and I wasn't using a bot.
Appreciate you trying to help the market but its not particularly fair when legitimate users get caught up in it and then its not rectified in a timely manner.
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Can we have another one of those updates? The bots are OUT OF CONTROL right now. Probably the worst they've ever been.
I understand this isn't your fault, the exploiters are always sneaking back in. But whenever you update the market works for several hours.
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@Manu__SDS_MLBTS The app is definitely better than it used to be in terms of how it actually functions. I think it was buggy early on and didn't respond well to input, but that's mostly fixed now.
But the market I think is a different story. The market is in a terrible state. Everyone has lost confidence in the market's integrity. Flipping cards feels next to impossible for a lot of us.
In my experience, I've placed orders on cards only for the orders I undercut to be cancelled and then the same entity places new orders one stub lower than mine. Now this was to be expected back in the day. But now? This takes place within a few nanoseconds. It does this at a speed not possible for a human to replicate, on the app or otherwise. For this reason, I don't think the bot problem has been resolved yet. It's impossible to make a profit on cards with good margins (newer live series cards for example) when this is occurring. Obviously the 20-card buy limit is not helping prevent the bot behavior.
I want to have the marketplace experience that we had a few years ago. When we could have confidence in the market. I miss those days. Please restore the market to how it was then, when we could make a stub or two off it.
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I confess that I never saw much point in trying to flip cards and equipment in the community market, but hey to each their own. That said, these bots are without question a direct attack on the market. It is exactly like a denial of service attack. In my view, it may well have crossed the line into criminal behavior, but SDS would need to press any legal complaints to law enforcement.
Personally, I think they should. But, it's not my call either way.
In terms of bot code, it could I think read the lowest buy price and the highest sell price and instantly pull a "Price is Right" routine and undercut each. While this could be done to corner the market on these items, my guess is this is motivated more by a desire to destroy the market, ruin the experience for customers, and done so simply to cause problems for the game title. It wouldn't surprise me to see this as a direct attack against SDS more than anything else.
It seems clear SDS has a serious problem on its hands. I think they are trying to get a handle on it, and in that respect I hope they are able to. My beef with SDS from the start has been their own actions to diminish customer satisfaction in the game title. That's bad enough. We don't need people using fraudulent computer code to cause more disatisfaction with customer satisfaction.
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@LadySwampfox_XBL said:
But now? This takes place within a few nanoseconds. It does this at a speed not possible for a human to replicate, on the app or otherwise. For this reason, I don't think the bot problem has been resolved yet. It's impossible to make a profit on cards with good margins (newer live series cards for example) when this is occurring.I've always been a card flipper. I work 60-hour weeks, so I can't be on my console grinding like the 24/7 players. Flipping has always been one of the ways I could keep up (and engage with the game).
To add to this, I'll use Junior C as an example. I was trying to buy the card and put in around 12 different buy orders, and each one got 1-upped instantly. I went from roughly 3050 all the way up to 3080, and every single order was immediately beaten.
But then when I canceled all 12 buy orders, every single one of those bot orders disappeared too and was placed right back 1 over the current bid, so back down around 3050. That is the part that makes it feel very clearly automated.
@PriorFir4383355_XBL said:
That said, these bots are without question a direct attack on the market. It is exactly like a denial of service attack. In my view, it may well have crossed the line into criminal behavior, but SDS would need to press any legal complaints to law enforcement.
Personally, I think they should. But, it's not my call either way.I agree with @priorfir4383355_xbl here. Epic has gone after and sued Fortnite cheaters before. I know it's probably extremely complicated, but I do think SDS should explore doing something similar.
People like @manu__sds_mlbts are over here working their tails off trying to fix things that are only broken because people are hacking, exploiting, botting, or whatever the right term is. This is 100% a reflection of a bad part of the community, not SDS.
The people doing this are a different breed, and I really hope there are real consequences for it.
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Another very significant Update went out today in around 10:30am pacific - let me know if the improvement has materialized
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Another very significant Update went out today in around 10:30am pacific - let me know if the improvement has materialized
ď¸I did notice a change you made (I wonât mention it here in case the exploiters are watching) but thinking / hoping itâll help.
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@Bridge-Piece_XBL Be sure to keep a close eye on the market and especially on the cards the bots love. It feels like every time they update the app the bots find a workaround and theyâre back to their cheating ways
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Some cards have bots around the clock. Since this last update it seems like they take a break after beating/undercutting you twice. The brief pause has allowed me to win a couple bids on active cards, but equipment and slower moving cards are still impossible to hold a position on unless you refresh listings 24/7. This is probably a result of âmarketing throttlingâ the App Store lists as the main change for the newest app version. Not sure if thatâs saying the quiet part out loud but it doesnât sound like an upgrade. Kinda sounds like a downgrade.
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@Manu__SDS_MLBTS bots are already back and awful.
