No defensive shifts next year
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@JEEZY-E_MLBTS said in No defensive shifts next year:
@Bearsfan217_XBL said in No defensive shifts next year:
New rule. Good for the game of baseball imo, but part of me wonders why hitters couldnt just adjust and learn to hit. Dunno if it will have any affect on mlbts24
They haven’t implemented the universal DH so probably not, I expect to be lining out into the shift with Griffey for the next decade.
You could be right but the DH was not a sure thing until Feb last year which is very late in the Development cycle. There is much more lead time with this rule change for them to hopefully get it in.
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Does anyone know the penalty if a team does shift before the ball is hit or if the pitcher lets the clock expire?
Are we going to start seeing yellow flags and whistles at baseball games now?
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@Ericulous1_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
Love it. I'm old school. I miss when math didn’t radically change watching a baseball game and deromanticize reading about it. I do think it's lame that players couldn't figure out how to hit against it but if the pitcher has to stay on the mound, why can everyone else go anywhere they want? I actually just thought of that so if there's an obvious answer....just humor me.
Old school? The shift has been around since the '20s (1920s). It didn't stop Ted Williams when they shifted on him.
I agree players should learn to bunt if the shift is deployed. That's how you stop it.
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@PAinPA_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
They dont try to bunt because they arent trying to hit grounders they are trying for liners in the gap or moonshots.
i used to be of the same mind, but it was explained - if the hitter changes his approach to do it the defense wins, from these power guys that used to be the original shifted the defense would take singles all day over the damage the hitter could potentially doI miss small-ball.
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Go watch the 1976 ASG on youtube.
The 1st inning is over in like 7 pitchesJoe Morgan swings at 1st pitch.
Game had flow.
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@the_dragon1912 said in No defensive shifts next year:
The way pitchers are today is why the hitters couldn't adjust and go the other way. When it was regular to take the ball the other way Pitchers weren't throwing 100 mph sinkers on the hands. It was mostly about control. Shifts also used to exclusively used on lefty power hitters(Dunn, Travis Hafner, Big Papi, Thome etc.) shifts these days are used on every hitter in baseball. No shifting still isn't going to effect guys like Gallo much because he doesn't put the ball on the Ground. Singles up the middle are almost non existent anymore. That's mostly what this is about
This is how I see it as well
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@Blind_Bleeder said in No defensive shifts next year:
@Ericulous1_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
Love it. I'm old school. I miss when math didn’t radically change watching a baseball game and deromanticize reading about it. I do think it's lame that players couldn't figure out how to hit against it but if the pitcher has to stay on the mound, why can everyone else go anywhere they want? I actually just thought of that so if there's an obvious answer....just humor me.
Old school? The shift has been around since the '20s (1920s). It didn't stop Ted Williams when they shifted on him.
I agree players should learn to bunt if the shift is deployed. That's how you stop it.
Oh I know, I was more referring to the advent of analytics and how it created the universal shift for every hitter. I know it's been around for many years but only for the select great power lefties. Not to the point where a player has to check his chart every AB to determine his place on the field.
I guess I'm not that old school as I was born in the 80s but I prefer baseball to be a thing of beauty and to read about its rich history, not about launch angle, exit velo and spin rate. If I wanted to study physics and mathematics I would. When I read a baseball article now I rarely make it past the second paragraph as my head starts spinning with all the crazy equations and mathematical statistics. They have completely deromanticized the game.
Of course Ted Williams beat the shift he was Ted Williams. And for players like Gwynn, Ichiro, Boggs and Brett there probably wouldn't be a shift. This brings up another point. I miss batting averages meaning something. I'm sure you know this but many don't...the last person to hit over .350 was Josh Hamilton 12 years ago. 12 years ago!!!!!!!!! Tony Gwynn did it 7 times. I say adios to the shift.
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@Ericulous1_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@Blind_Bleeder said in No defensive shifts next year:
@Ericulous1_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
Love it. I'm old school. I miss when math didn’t radically change watching a baseball game and deromanticize reading about it. I do think it's lame that players couldn't figure out how to hit against it but if the pitcher has to stay on the mound, why can everyone else go anywhere they want? I actually just thought of that so if there's an obvious answer....just humor me.
Old school? The shift has been around since the '20s (1920s). It didn't stop Ted Williams when they shifted on him.
I agree players should learn to bunt if the shift is deployed. That's how you stop it.
Oh I know, I was more referring to the advent of analytics and how it created the universal shift for every hitter. I know it's been around for many years but only for the select great power lefties. Not to the point where a player has to check his chart every AB to determine his place on the field.
I guess I'm not that old school as I was born in the 80s but I prefer baseball to be a thing of beauty and to read about its rich history, not about launch angle, exit velo and spin rate. If I wanted to study physics and mathematics I would. When I read a baseball article now I rarely make it past the second paragraph as my head starts spinning with all the crazy equations and mathematical statistics. They have completely deromanticized the game.
Of course Ted Williams beat the shift he was Ted Williams. And for players like Gwynn, Ichiro, Boggs and Brett there probably wouldn't be a shift. This brings up another point. I miss batting averages meaning something. I'm sure you know this but many don't...the last person to hit over .350 was Josh Hamilton 12 years ago. 12 years ago!!!!!!!!! Tony Gwynn did it 7 times. I say adios to the shift.
The history of baseball. Yes. Always evolving. I love the Ken Burns series, as do most true baseball fans.
I guess I'm the old-school guy. I love the suicide squeeze. The sac bunt. The Texas leaguer. Guys that could hit around the defense. Those days have been gone for a while. Yes, I miss small-ball.
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@the_dragon1912 said in No defensive shifts next year:
The way pitchers are today is why the hitters couldn't adjust and go the other way. When it was regular to take the ball the other way Pitchers weren't throwing 100 mph sinkers on the hands. It was mostly about control. Shifts also used to exclusively used on lefty power hitters(Dunn, Travis Hafner, Big Papi, Thome etc.) shifts these days are used on every hitter in baseball. No shifting still isn't going to effect guys like Gallo much because he doesn't put the ball on the Ground. Singles up the middle are almost non existent anymore. That's mostly what this is about
This guy gets it. The game has changed with analytics and the shift. The ground ball has been killed by it, this created launch angle and the strike out extravaganza we see.
If the best hitters can’t go the other way on 98 in on your hands, that says something. But us armchair baseball fans love to explain how to beat the shift ( yet the best managers in the bigs aren’t as smart as us, right??)
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Ted Williams might have hit .506 instead of .406 if there was no shift.
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@Blind_Bleeder said in No defensive shifts next year:
@Ericulous1_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@Blind_Bleeder said in No defensive shifts next year:
@Ericulous1_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
Love it. I'm old school. I miss when math didn’t radically change watching a baseball game and deromanticize reading about it. I do think it's lame that players couldn't figure out how to hit against it but if the pitcher has to stay on the mound, why can everyone else go anywhere they want? I actually just thought of that so if there's an obvious answer....just humor me.
Old school? The shift has been around since the '20s (1920s). It didn't stop Ted Williams when they shifted on him.
I agree players should learn to bunt if the shift is deployed. That's how you stop it.
Oh I know, I was more referring to the advent of analytics and how it created the universal shift for every hitter. I know it's been around for many years but only for the select great power lefties. Not to the point where a player has to check his chart every AB to determine his place on the field.
I guess I'm not that old school as I was born in the 80s but I prefer baseball to be a thing of beauty and to read about its rich history, not about launch angle, exit velo and spin rate. If I wanted to study physics and mathematics I would. When I read a baseball article now I rarely make it past the second paragraph as my head starts spinning with all the crazy equations and mathematical statistics. They have completely deromanticized the game.
Of course Ted Williams beat the shift he was Ted Williams. And for players like Gwynn, Ichiro, Boggs and Brett there probably wouldn't be a shift. This brings up another point. I miss batting averages meaning something. I'm sure you know this but many don't...the last person to hit over .350 was Josh Hamilton 12 years ago. 12 years ago!!!!!!!!! Tony Gwynn did it 7 times. I say adios to the shift.
The history of baseball. Yes. Always evolving. I love the Ken Burns series, as do most true baseball fans.
I guess I'm the old-school guy. I love the suicide squeeze. The sac bunt. The Texas leaguer. Guys that could hit around the defense. Those days have been gone for a while. Yes, I miss small-ball.
Oh I loooooove small ball. Im an NL kid through and through. I grew up listening to a Grandpa from Bedford Stuyvesant telling me stories of Honus Wagner, and Zack Wheat. The Bums: Jackie, Gil, The Duke Pee Wee and Campanella. The Gashouse Gang and Paige and Feller's barnstorming matchups. I'm reading a great book about the 1948 Indians....I love baseball history.
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@OreoRockstar_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@the_dragon1912 said in No defensive shifts next year:
The way pitchers are today is why the hitters couldn't adjust and go the other way. When it was regular to take the ball the other way Pitchers weren't throwing 100 mph sinkers on the hands. It was mostly about control. Shifts also used to exclusively used on lefty power hitters(Dunn, Travis Hafner, Big Papi, Thome etc.) shifts these days are used on every hitter in baseball. No shifting still isn't going to effect guys like Gallo much because he doesn't put the ball on the Ground. Singles up the middle are almost non existent anymore. That's mostly what this is about
This guy gets it. The game has changed with analytics and the shift. The ground ball has been killed by it, this created launch angle and the strike out extravaganza we see.
If the best hitters can’t go the other way on 98 in on your hands, that says something. But us armchair baseball fans love to explain how to beat the shift ( yet the best managers in the bigs aren’t as smart as us, right??)
Exactly right. I can't stand the simplistic argument, "why can't the hitters just figure out how to adjust?" Obviously it's not that easy, or they would have done so. The pitchers are different in this era. Everyone throws hard. Hitting a baseball is the hardest thing in sports and the batters are expected to just "figure it out". Then it's whining about how hitters just want to hit homeruns and worry about launch angle. Maybe they're worrying about launch angle because they're trying to hit the ball over 6 fielders on one side of the field?
It's not like hitters just all of a sudden became this way. This is them trying to adjust to something that is only advantageous to the defense. It's akin to the defense in football knowing the exact play the offense is going to run every time and detractors saying, "the offense needs to adjust".
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@poksey_MLBTS said in No defensive shifts next year:
Terrible change. Absolutely hate it.
In my opinion it is MLB trying to hide the fact that "launch angle baseball" sucks and has produced a sport full of .230 hitters.
It will do zero to raise batting averages. And the pitch clock rule is a joke. How about cutting down on all the TV time outs to allow the game to progress faster. If managers didn't feel the need to trot a dozen pitchers out every game it would also speed things up.
The current "commissioner" of baseball was clearly the kid whose position was bench warmer and this is his way of getting even.
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@Ericulous1_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@Blind_Bleeder said in No defensive shifts next year:
@Ericulous1_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@Blind_Bleeder said in No defensive shifts next year:
@Ericulous1_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
Love it. I'm old school. I miss when math didn’t radically change watching a baseball game and deromanticize reading about it. I do think it's lame that players couldn't figure out how to hit against it but if the pitcher has to stay on the mound, why can everyone else go anywhere they want? I actually just thought of that so if there's an obvious answer....just humor me.
Old school? The shift has been around since the '20s (1920s). It didn't stop Ted Williams when they shifted on him.
I agree players should learn to bunt if the shift is deployed. That's how you stop it.
Oh I know, I was more referring to the advent of analytics and how it created the universal shift for every hitter. I know it's been around for many years but only for the select great power lefties. Not to the point where a player has to check his chart every AB to determine his place on the field.
I guess I'm not that old school as I was born in the 80s but I prefer baseball to be a thing of beauty and to read about its rich history, not about launch angle, exit velo and spin rate. If I wanted to study physics and mathematics I would. When I read a baseball article now I rarely make it past the second paragraph as my head starts spinning with all the crazy equations and mathematical statistics. They have completely deromanticized the game.
Of course Ted Williams beat the shift he was Ted Williams. And for players like Gwynn, Ichiro, Boggs and Brett there probably wouldn't be a shift. This brings up another point. I miss batting averages meaning something. I'm sure you know this but many don't...the last person to hit over .350 was Josh Hamilton 12 years ago. 12 years ago!!!!!!!!! Tony Gwynn did it 7 times. I say adios to the shift.
The history of baseball. Yes. Always evolving. I love the Ken Burns series, as do most true baseball fans.
I guess I'm the old-school guy. I love the suicide squeeze. The sac bunt. The Texas leaguer. Guys that could hit around the defense. Those days have been gone for a while. Yes, I miss small-ball.
Oh I loooooove small ball. Im an NL kid through and through. I grew up listening to a Grandpa from Bedford Stuyvesant telling me stories of Honus Wagner, and Zack Wheat. The Bums: Jackie, Gil, The Duke Pee Wee and Campanella. The Gashouse Gang and Paige and Feller's barnstorming matchups. I'm reading a great book about the 1948 Indians....I love baseball history.
Sadly, you don't even have to go back that far. Back in the 80's every team had a guy like Brett Butler, who could work the pitcher for a walk, steal a base, or bunt a runner over while providing solid defense.
Now every team is full of guys that swing at every pitch, and only want to hit homers when a single would be good enough to win.
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@darkblue1876_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@poksey_MLBTS said in No defensive shifts next year:
Terrible change. Absolutely hate it.
In my opinion it is MLB trying to hide the fact that "launch angle baseball" sucks and has produced a sport full of .230 hitters.
It will do zero to raise batting averages. And the pitch clock rule is a joke. How about cutting down on all the TV time outs to allow the game to progress faster. If managers didn't feel the need to trot a dozen pitchers out every game it would also speed things up.
The current "commissioner" of baseball was clearly the kid whose position was bench warmer and this is his way of getting even.
You are crazy if you think this shift rule won’t improve battings averages.
And they already addressed the pitchers. They implemented the 3 batter minimum a couple years ago for this exact purpose.
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@Ericulous1_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
Love it. I'm old school. I miss when math didn’t radically change watching a baseball game and deromanticize reading about it. I do think it's lame that players couldn't figure out how to hit against it but if the pitcher has to stay on the mound, why can everyone else go anywhere they want? I actually just thought of that so if there's an obvious answer....just humor me.
With ya brother .. the stupid commentary “ the first thing a fan wants to know on a knock like that is the exit velocity and launch angle” .. no fucko the first I want to k ow is how the pitcher will respond to what just happened and adjust accordingly.
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@OreoRockstar_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@darkblue1876_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@poksey_MLBTS said in No defensive shifts next year:
Terrible change. Absolutely hate it.
You are crazy if you think this shift rule won’t improve battings averages.
And they already addressed the pitchers. They implemented the 3 batter minimum a couple years ago for this exact purpose.
Really? How is having the players not shift going to change the fact that nearly every player on every team is swinging for the seats on every single pitch?
At BEST you will see one or two times a game where a ground ball will roll through the middle. If they are not capable of beating the shift by bunting to the opposite side or hitting the ball that way, they certainly are not going to start now.
So instead of a league filled with .230 hitters, you will have a league filled with .232 hitters.
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@darkblue1876_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@OreoRockstar_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@darkblue1876_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@poksey_MLBTS said in No defensive shifts next year:
Terrible change. Absolutely hate it.
You are crazy if you think this shift rule won’t improve battings averages.
And they already addressed the pitchers. They implemented the 3 batter minimum a couple years ago for this exact purpose.
Really? How is having the players not shift going to change the fact that nearly every player on every team is swinging for the seats on every single pitch?
At BEST you will see one or two times a game where a ground ball will roll through the middle. If they are not capable of beating the shift by bunting to the opposite side or hitting the ball that way, they certainly are not going to start now.
So instead of a league filled with .230 hitters, you will have a league filled with .232 hitters.
You are the type of guy I referenced in my previous posts. Arm chair baseball manager. A discussion is futile, have a great day.
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@Blind_Bleeder said in No defensive shifts next year:
Does anyone know the penalty if a team does shift before the ball is hit or if the pitcher lets the clock expire?
Are we going to start seeing yellow flags and whistles at baseball games now?
The penalty for a violation in the no shift rule is that the hitting team can “re-do” the play with a ball being awarded to the batter or the team can decline the penalty and accept the play as it happened (which may be beneficial in some scenarios such as a play where a run scores even if the batter was out on the play). If a violation occurs and the batter reaches base and the runners who were on base advance, then the play lives as it happened.
For the pitch clock, if a pitcher violates the timer, he will be charged an automatic ball. If a batter violates the limit, he will be charged an automatic strike.
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@dewrock_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@OreoRockstar_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@the_dragon1912 said in No defensive shifts next year:
The way pitchers are today is why the hitters couldn't adjust and go the other way. When it was regular to take the ball the other way Pitchers weren't throwing 100 mph sinkers on the hands. It was mostly about control. Shifts also used to exclusively used on lefty power hitters(Dunn, Travis Hafner, Big Papi, Thome etc.) shifts these days are used on every hitter in baseball. No shifting still isn't going to effect guys like Gallo much because he doesn't put the ball on the Ground. Singles up the middle are almost non existent anymore. That's mostly what this is about
This guy gets it. The game has changed with analytics and the shift. The ground ball has been killed by it, this created launch angle and the strike out extravaganza we see.
If the best hitters can’t go the other way on 98 in on your hands, that says something. But us armchair baseball fans love to explain how to beat the shift ( yet the best managers in the bigs aren’t as smart as us, right??)
Exactly right. I can't stand the simplistic argument, "why can't the hitters just figure out how to adjust?" Obviously it's not that easy, or they would have done so. The pitchers are different in this era. Everyone throws hard. Hitting a baseball is the hardest thing in sports and the batters are expected to just "figure it out". Then it's whining about how hitters just want to hit homeruns and worry about launch angle. Maybe they're worrying about launch angle because they're trying to hit the ball over 6 fielders on one side of the field?
It's not like hitters just all of a sudden became this way. This is them trying to adjust to something that is only advantageous to the defense. It's akin to the defense in football knowing the exact play the offense is going to run every time and detractors saying, "the offense needs to adjust".
My belief is that it's been determined through analytics that singles arent as beneficial as HRs. People dont bunt against the shift because the outcome is "only" one base. I dont actually believe it's because they cant do it. It's the same as how analytics determined the risk/reward of stolen bases arent worth it anymore, as well as sacrificing runners over.
