No defensive shifts next year
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@Blind_Bleeder said in No defensive shifts next year:
@Ericulous1_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@Blind_Bleeder said in No defensive shifts next year:
@Ericulous1_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
Love it. I'm old school. I miss when math didn’t radically change watching a baseball game and deromanticize reading about it. I do think it's lame that players couldn't figure out how to hit against it but if the pitcher has to stay on the mound, why can everyone else go anywhere they want? I actually just thought of that so if there's an obvious answer....just humor me.
Old school? The shift has been around since the '20s (1920s). It didn't stop Ted Williams when they shifted on him.
I agree players should learn to bunt if the shift is deployed. That's how you stop it.
Oh I know, I was more referring to the advent of analytics and how it created the universal shift for every hitter. I know it's been around for many years but only for the select great power lefties. Not to the point where a player has to check his chart every AB to determine his place on the field.
I guess I'm not that old school as I was born in the 80s but I prefer baseball to be a thing of beauty and to read about its rich history, not about launch angle, exit velo and spin rate. If I wanted to study physics and mathematics I would. When I read a baseball article now I rarely make it past the second paragraph as my head starts spinning with all the crazy equations and mathematical statistics. They have completely deromanticized the game.
Of course Ted Williams beat the shift he was Ted Williams. And for players like Gwynn, Ichiro, Boggs and Brett there probably wouldn't be a shift. This brings up another point. I miss batting averages meaning something. I'm sure you know this but many don't...the last person to hit over .350 was Josh Hamilton 12 years ago. 12 years ago!!!!!!!!! Tony Gwynn did it 7 times. I say adios to the shift.
The history of baseball. Yes. Always evolving. I love the Ken Burns series, as do most true baseball fans.
I guess I'm the old-school guy. I love the suicide squeeze. The sac bunt. The Texas leaguer. Guys that could hit around the defense. Those days have been gone for a while. Yes, I miss small-ball.
Oh I loooooove small ball. Im an NL kid through and through. I grew up listening to a Grandpa from Bedford Stuyvesant telling me stories of Honus Wagner, and Zack Wheat. The Bums: Jackie, Gil, The Duke Pee Wee and Campanella. The Gashouse Gang and Paige and Feller's barnstorming matchups. I'm reading a great book about the 1948 Indians....I love baseball history.
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@OreoRockstar_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@the_dragon1912 said in No defensive shifts next year:
The way pitchers are today is why the hitters couldn't adjust and go the other way. When it was regular to take the ball the other way Pitchers weren't throwing 100 mph sinkers on the hands. It was mostly about control. Shifts also used to exclusively used on lefty power hitters(Dunn, Travis Hafner, Big Papi, Thome etc.) shifts these days are used on every hitter in baseball. No shifting still isn't going to effect guys like Gallo much because he doesn't put the ball on the Ground. Singles up the middle are almost non existent anymore. That's mostly what this is about
This guy gets it. The game has changed with analytics and the shift. The ground ball has been killed by it, this created launch angle and the strike out extravaganza we see.
If the best hitters can’t go the other way on 98 in on your hands, that says something. But us armchair baseball fans love to explain how to beat the shift ( yet the best managers in the bigs aren’t as smart as us, right??)
Exactly right. I can't stand the simplistic argument, "why can't the hitters just figure out how to adjust?" Obviously it's not that easy, or they would have done so. The pitchers are different in this era. Everyone throws hard. Hitting a baseball is the hardest thing in sports and the batters are expected to just "figure it out". Then it's whining about how hitters just want to hit homeruns and worry about launch angle. Maybe they're worrying about launch angle because they're trying to hit the ball over 6 fielders on one side of the field?
It's not like hitters just all of a sudden became this way. This is them trying to adjust to something that is only advantageous to the defense. It's akin to the defense in football knowing the exact play the offense is going to run every time and detractors saying, "the offense needs to adjust".
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@poksey_MLBTS said in No defensive shifts next year:
Terrible change. Absolutely hate it.
In my opinion it is MLB trying to hide the fact that "launch angle baseball" sucks and has produced a sport full of .230 hitters.
It will do zero to raise batting averages. And the pitch clock rule is a joke. How about cutting down on all the TV time outs to allow the game to progress faster. If managers didn't feel the need to trot a dozen pitchers out every game it would also speed things up.
The current "commissioner" of baseball was clearly the kid whose position was bench warmer and this is his way of getting even.
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@Ericulous1_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@Blind_Bleeder said in No defensive shifts next year:
@Ericulous1_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@Blind_Bleeder said in No defensive shifts next year:
@Ericulous1_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
Love it. I'm old school. I miss when math didn’t radically change watching a baseball game and deromanticize reading about it. I do think it's lame that players couldn't figure out how to hit against it but if the pitcher has to stay on the mound, why can everyone else go anywhere they want? I actually just thought of that so if there's an obvious answer....just humor me.
Old school? The shift has been around since the '20s (1920s). It didn't stop Ted Williams when they shifted on him.
I agree players should learn to bunt if the shift is deployed. That's how you stop it.
Oh I know, I was more referring to the advent of analytics and how it created the universal shift for every hitter. I know it's been around for many years but only for the select great power lefties. Not to the point where a player has to check his chart every AB to determine his place on the field.
I guess I'm not that old school as I was born in the 80s but I prefer baseball to be a thing of beauty and to read about its rich history, not about launch angle, exit velo and spin rate. If I wanted to study physics and mathematics I would. When I read a baseball article now I rarely make it past the second paragraph as my head starts spinning with all the crazy equations and mathematical statistics. They have completely deromanticized the game.
Of course Ted Williams beat the shift he was Ted Williams. And for players like Gwynn, Ichiro, Boggs and Brett there probably wouldn't be a shift. This brings up another point. I miss batting averages meaning something. I'm sure you know this but many don't...the last person to hit over .350 was Josh Hamilton 12 years ago. 12 years ago!!!!!!!!! Tony Gwynn did it 7 times. I say adios to the shift.
The history of baseball. Yes. Always evolving. I love the Ken Burns series, as do most true baseball fans.
I guess I'm the old-school guy. I love the suicide squeeze. The sac bunt. The Texas leaguer. Guys that could hit around the defense. Those days have been gone for a while. Yes, I miss small-ball.
Oh I loooooove small ball. Im an NL kid through and through. I grew up listening to a Grandpa from Bedford Stuyvesant telling me stories of Honus Wagner, and Zack Wheat. The Bums: Jackie, Gil, The Duke Pee Wee and Campanella. The Gashouse Gang and Paige and Feller's barnstorming matchups. I'm reading a great book about the 1948 Indians....I love baseball history.
Sadly, you don't even have to go back that far. Back in the 80's every team had a guy like Brett Butler, who could work the pitcher for a walk, steal a base, or bunt a runner over while providing solid defense.
Now every team is full of guys that swing at every pitch, and only want to hit homers when a single would be good enough to win.
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@darkblue1876_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@poksey_MLBTS said in No defensive shifts next year:
Terrible change. Absolutely hate it.
In my opinion it is MLB trying to hide the fact that "launch angle baseball" sucks and has produced a sport full of .230 hitters.
It will do zero to raise batting averages. And the pitch clock rule is a joke. How about cutting down on all the TV time outs to allow the game to progress faster. If managers didn't feel the need to trot a dozen pitchers out every game it would also speed things up.
The current "commissioner" of baseball was clearly the kid whose position was bench warmer and this is his way of getting even.
You are crazy if you think this shift rule won’t improve battings averages.
And they already addressed the pitchers. They implemented the 3 batter minimum a couple years ago for this exact purpose.
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@Ericulous1_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
Love it. I'm old school. I miss when math didn’t radically change watching a baseball game and deromanticize reading about it. I do think it's lame that players couldn't figure out how to hit against it but if the pitcher has to stay on the mound, why can everyone else go anywhere they want? I actually just thought of that so if there's an obvious answer....just humor me.
With ya brother .. the stupid commentary “ the first thing a fan wants to know on a knock like that is the exit velocity and launch angle” .. no fucko the first I want to k ow is how the pitcher will respond to what just happened and adjust accordingly.
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@OreoRockstar_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@darkblue1876_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@poksey_MLBTS said in No defensive shifts next year:
Terrible change. Absolutely hate it.
You are crazy if you think this shift rule won’t improve battings averages.
And they already addressed the pitchers. They implemented the 3 batter minimum a couple years ago for this exact purpose.
Really? How is having the players not shift going to change the fact that nearly every player on every team is swinging for the seats on every single pitch?
At BEST you will see one or two times a game where a ground ball will roll through the middle. If they are not capable of beating the shift by bunting to the opposite side or hitting the ball that way, they certainly are not going to start now.
So instead of a league filled with .230 hitters, you will have a league filled with .232 hitters.
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@darkblue1876_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@OreoRockstar_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@darkblue1876_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@poksey_MLBTS said in No defensive shifts next year:
Terrible change. Absolutely hate it.
You are crazy if you think this shift rule won’t improve battings averages.
And they already addressed the pitchers. They implemented the 3 batter minimum a couple years ago for this exact purpose.
Really? How is having the players not shift going to change the fact that nearly every player on every team is swinging for the seats on every single pitch?
At BEST you will see one or two times a game where a ground ball will roll through the middle. If they are not capable of beating the shift by bunting to the opposite side or hitting the ball that way, they certainly are not going to start now.
So instead of a league filled with .230 hitters, you will have a league filled with .232 hitters.
You are the type of guy I referenced in my previous posts. Arm chair baseball manager. A discussion is futile, have a great day.
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@Blind_Bleeder said in No defensive shifts next year:
Does anyone know the penalty if a team does shift before the ball is hit or if the pitcher lets the clock expire?
Are we going to start seeing yellow flags and whistles at baseball games now?
The penalty for a violation in the no shift rule is that the hitting team can “re-do” the play with a ball being awarded to the batter or the team can decline the penalty and accept the play as it happened (which may be beneficial in some scenarios such as a play where a run scores even if the batter was out on the play). If a violation occurs and the batter reaches base and the runners who were on base advance, then the play lives as it happened.
For the pitch clock, if a pitcher violates the timer, he will be charged an automatic ball. If a batter violates the limit, he will be charged an automatic strike.
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@dewrock_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@OreoRockstar_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@the_dragon1912 said in No defensive shifts next year:
The way pitchers are today is why the hitters couldn't adjust and go the other way. When it was regular to take the ball the other way Pitchers weren't throwing 100 mph sinkers on the hands. It was mostly about control. Shifts also used to exclusively used on lefty power hitters(Dunn, Travis Hafner, Big Papi, Thome etc.) shifts these days are used on every hitter in baseball. No shifting still isn't going to effect guys like Gallo much because he doesn't put the ball on the Ground. Singles up the middle are almost non existent anymore. That's mostly what this is about
This guy gets it. The game has changed with analytics and the shift. The ground ball has been killed by it, this created launch angle and the strike out extravaganza we see.
If the best hitters can’t go the other way on 98 in on your hands, that says something. But us armchair baseball fans love to explain how to beat the shift ( yet the best managers in the bigs aren’t as smart as us, right??)
Exactly right. I can't stand the simplistic argument, "why can't the hitters just figure out how to adjust?" Obviously it's not that easy, or they would have done so. The pitchers are different in this era. Everyone throws hard. Hitting a baseball is the hardest thing in sports and the batters are expected to just "figure it out". Then it's whining about how hitters just want to hit homeruns and worry about launch angle. Maybe they're worrying about launch angle because they're trying to hit the ball over 6 fielders on one side of the field?
It's not like hitters just all of a sudden became this way. This is them trying to adjust to something that is only advantageous to the defense. It's akin to the defense in football knowing the exact play the offense is going to run every time and detractors saying, "the offense needs to adjust".
My belief is that it's been determined through analytics that singles arent as beneficial as HRs. People dont bunt against the shift because the outcome is "only" one base. I dont actually believe it's because they cant do it. It's the same as how analytics determined the risk/reward of stolen bases arent worth it anymore, as well as sacrificing runners over.
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@darkblue1876_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@OreoRockstar_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@darkblue1876_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@poksey_MLBTS said in No defensive shifts next year:
Terrible change. Absolutely hate it.
You are crazy if you think this shift rule won’t improve battings averages.
And they already addressed the pitchers. They implemented the 3 batter minimum a couple years ago for this exact purpose.
Really? How is having the players not shift going to change the fact that nearly every player on every team is swinging for the seats on every single pitch?
At BEST you will see one or two times a game where a ground ball will roll through the middle. If they are not capable of beating the shift by bunting to the opposite side or hitting the ball that way, they certainly are not going to start now.
So instead of a league filled with .230 hitters, you will have a league filled with .232 hitters.
The simplistic argument is that they don't/haven't tried to hit against the shift. A more nuanced argument is that they have tried and they can't do it because hitting is the hardest thing in all sports. The shift is completely advantageous to the defense. If they could just hit the other way, they would. Not that easy.
I'm never going to buy an argument that says a batter is refusing to take an "easy" hit to an empty part of the field just because it's only an single and they'd rather just smoke it right to a fielder. They're trying to launch it over the loaded up side of the field because they obviously can't hit to the opposite side with the way they're being pitched to and with the caliber of pitching they're facing.
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You are the type of guy I referenced in my previous posts. Arm chair baseball manager. A discussion is futile, have a great day.
And what MLB team are you the manager of?
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@dewrock_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@darkblue1876_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@OreoRockstar_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@darkblue1876_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@poksey_MLBTS said in No defensive shifts next year:
Terrible change. Absolutely hate it.
You are crazy if you think this shift rule won’t improve battings averages.
And they already addressed the pitchers. They implemented the 3 batter minimum a couple years ago for this exact purpose.
Really? How is having the players not shift going to change the fact that nearly every player on every team is swinging for the seats on every single pitch?
At BEST you will see one or two times a game where a ground ball will roll through the middle. If they are not capable of beating the shift by bunting to the opposite side or hitting the ball that way, they certainly are not going to start now.
So instead of a league filled with .230 hitters, you will have a league filled with .232 hitters.
The simplistic argument is that they don't/haven't tried to hit against the shift. A more nuanced argument is that they have tried and they can't do it because hitting is the hardest thing in all sports. The shift is completely advantageous to the defense. If they could just hit the other way, they would. Not that easy.
I'm never going to buy an argument that says a batter is refusing to take an "easy" hit to an empty part of the field just because it's only an single and they'd rather just smoke it right to a fielder. They're trying to launch it over the loaded up side of the field because they obviously can't hit to the opposite side with the way they're being pitched to and with the caliber of pitching they're facing.
And the reason they are all applying the "close eyes, swing real hard" approach is because they are not good hitters. Sure, you hit 50 homers in a season, but when that same batter has exactly 53 hits for the season I am personally not impressed.
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@darkblue1876_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@dewrock_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@darkblue1876_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@OreoRockstar_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@darkblue1876_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@poksey_MLBTS said in No defensive shifts next year:
Terrible change. Absolutely hate it.
You are crazy if you think this shift rule won’t improve battings averages.
And they already addressed the pitchers. They implemented the 3 batter minimum a couple years ago for this exact purpose.
Really? How is having the players not shift going to change the fact that nearly every player on every team is swinging for the seats on every single pitch?
At BEST you will see one or two times a game where a ground ball will roll through the middle. If they are not capable of beating the shift by bunting to the opposite side or hitting the ball that way, they certainly are not going to start now.
So instead of a league filled with .230 hitters, you will have a league filled with .232 hitters.
The simplistic argument is that they don't/haven't tried to hit against the shift. A more nuanced argument is that they have tried and they can't do it because hitting is the hardest thing in all sports. The shift is completely advantageous to the defense. If they could just hit the other way, they would. Not that easy.
I'm never going to buy an argument that says a batter is refusing to take an "easy" hit to an empty part of the field just because it's only an single and they'd rather just smoke it right to a fielder. They're trying to launch it over the loaded up side of the field because they obviously can't hit to the opposite side with the way they're being pitched to and with the caliber of pitching they're facing.
And the reason they are all applying the "close eyes, swing real hard" approach is because they are not good hitters. Sure, you hit 50 homers in a season, but when that same batter has exactly 53 hits for the season I am personally not impressed.
Huhhhhh?
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@dewrock_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@darkblue1876_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@dewrock_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@darkblue1876_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@OreoRockstar_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@darkblue1876_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@poksey_MLBTS said in No defensive shifts next year:
Terrible change. Absolutely hate it.
You are crazy if you think this shift rule won’t improve battings averages.
And they already addressed the pitchers. They implemented the 3 batter minimum a couple years ago for this exact purpose.
Really? How is having the players not shift going to change the fact that nearly every player on every team is swinging for the seats on every single pitch?
At BEST you will see one or two times a game where a ground ball will roll through the middle. If they are not capable of beating the shift by bunting to the opposite side or hitting the ball that way, they certainly are not going to start now.
So instead of a league filled with .230 hitters, you will have a league filled with .232 hitters.
The simplistic argument is that they don't/haven't tried to hit against the shift. A more nuanced argument is that they have tried and they can't do it because hitting is the hardest thing in all sports. The shift is completely advantageous to the defense. If they could just hit the other way, they would. Not that easy.
I'm never going to buy an argument that says a batter is refusing to take an "easy" hit to an empty part of the field just because it's only an single and they'd rather just smoke it right to a fielder. They're trying to launch it over the loaded up side of the field because they obviously can't hit to the opposite side with the way they're being pitched to and with the caliber of pitching they're facing.
And the reason they are all applying the "close eyes, swing real hard" approach is because they are not good hitters. Sure, you hit 50 homers in a season, but when that same batter has exactly 53 hits for the season I am personally not impressed.
Huhhhhh?
I know it was a bit of an exaggeration but look at the drastic decline in batting averages since the rise of the home run or strikeout hitting method. Players are so caught up in I want to hit a lot of home runs that they are significantly dropping the use of other skills that leads to a glorified home run derby.
MLB couldn't pay me $100.00 a pitch to watch a game now.
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The shift ain’t goin anywhere. If it’s a lefty hitter, the shortstop will be one step on the shortstop side and the opposite for a right handed hitter. Just gotta be on the dirt. I think these new rules are ridiculous but whatever. I barely watch as it is. Haven’t been to a game in 4 years. These new rules may have chased me off permanently.
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@darkblue1876_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
You are the type of guy I referenced in my previous posts. Arm chair baseball manager. A discussion is futile, have a great day.
And what MLB team are you the manager of?
I am not, but I do have an extensive baseball background, coach one of the best select teams in the country for their age, and have many close friends that are former and current major league players, college coaches, etc….
And yet I am not the one on here instructing the very best hitters in the world, as well as baseball minds , how To beat the shift.
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@PAinPA_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
They dont try to bunt because they arent trying to hit grounders they are trying for liners in the gap or moonshots.
i used to be of the same mind, but it was explained - if the hitter changes his approach to do it the defense wins, from these power guys that used to be the original shifted the defense would take singles all day over the damage the hitter could potentially doIt’s just like the show… what do you do if someone gets a bunt against the shift on you? I usually take the shift off immediately. I think mlb teams would too. I can understand guys like Yordan or Devers not trying to beat the shift too much, but if your Joey Gallo, hitting a buck-70, and the entire infield is swung around to the pull side, what would it hurt to bunt for a week or so, until they quit shifting on you?
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@OreoRockstar_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
@darkblue1876_PSN said in No defensive shifts next year:
You are the type of guy I referenced in my previous posts. Arm chair baseball manager. A discussion is futile, have a great day.
And what MLB team are you the manager of?
I am not, but I do have an extensive baseball background, coach one of the best select teams in the country for their age, and have many close friends that are former and current major league players, college coaches, etc….
And yet I am not the one on here instructing the very best hitters in the world, as well as baseball minds , how To beat the shift.
So, in other words, you can state your opinion and that is cool, but anyone with a different opinion should just shut up right?
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