Questions still not answered
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Not quite what I’m saying. If you look up natural motion. That’s what I would like to see.
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I was never referring to a “blistering month”. I’m talking about with 500 abs
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@gradekthebard said in Questions still not answered:
@a_perfectgame said in Questions still not answered:
I don’t understand how they could allow directional or analog in competitive play. I think it should be mandatory to use zone or pure analog with stride.
Save the timing interfaces for offline play and casual.
That would obviously make the most sense
Why does it make the "most sense" when those options are clearly inferior to zone? Is it because you don't understand how they work? If people want to play directional online (personally I always use zone) and be at a disadvantage, let them it won't hurt you.
Because it makes for randomized outcomes. So you automatically look at the player that is at the advantage using zone. What about the player that is learning how to use zone? What’s the threshold that zone is not better then directional as far as skill base? You don’t know and neither do I...because it’s a randomized input. Allowing randomized inputs to be effective puts a huge question mark on outcomes. The person does not need to use the tools to be effective at hitting they are rolling the dice and in turn rolling the dice on their opponent. It doesn’t matter how good you or I think we are directional hitting is actually an unfair advantage period. Take two brand new players that never played the game before and give one directional hitting the other zone and put it on legend. Guarantee the person using directional wins and that is exactly the point.
This is literally logic. If I have zero idea how to play the game whats easier to use? Directional why? Because I do not have to place the bat on the ball. Now directional isn’t a long term solution to being good however it should be completely removed from online play because it is a hit randomizer and completely goes against competitive play.
Make sense? I get what you are saying about someone using directional is at a disadvantage and I’m not “scared” of a directional player however the overall integrity of the hitting and it being based on user input is very important to me. I thing allowing “timing” style hitting interfaces is a step in the wrong direction for competitive play.
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Get rid of the tennis racquet size zone then. Let’s see what happens with zone being the actual size of the bat. Lol.
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@sean_87__psn said in Questions still not answered:
Get rid of the tennis racquet size zone then. Let’s see what happens with zone being the actual size of the bat. Lol.
One thing I really don’t understand is you’ve been pushing for a simulation style game for awhile — if you want that why does it have to be another user?(head to head).
It’s because you want the thrill of competing but you don’t want to have to use the tools you need to compete. there was a time you actually pushed to completely dumb the game down to be completely based on the cards you use? You get that offline. You want to be able to say you beat someone else? I don’t understand the thinking behind this. Why would you want to achieve something you didn’t earn? Seems strange.
Not to be an a hole. I just really am trying to grasp the thinking behind wanting competing with other humans to be a lottery...it doesn’t make much sense to me.
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@a_perfectgame said in Questions still not answered:
@sean_87__psn said in Questions still not answered:
Get rid of the tennis racquet size zone then. Let’s see what happens with zone being the actual size of the bat. Lol.
One thing I really don’t understand is you’ve been pushing for a simulation style game for awhile — if you want that why does it have to be another user?(head to head).
It’s because you want the thrill of competing but you don’t want to have to use the tools you need to compete. there was a time you actually pushed to completely dumb the game down to be completely based on the cards you use? You get that offline. You want to be able to say you beat someone else? I don’t understand the thinking behind this. Why would you want to achieve something you didn’t earn? Seems strange.
Not to be an a hole. I just really am trying to grasp the thinking behind wanting competing with other humans to be a lottery...it doesn’t make much sense to me.
We just don’t like the same kind of games, that’s all. If we all played a sim game it’s still competition. If we play an arcade game, it’s still competition. All I ever said I wanted was the players to be represented accurately. I’m not talking about helping a guy out that swings at every pitch out of the zone, or a guy who throw pitches down the middle. All I ever referred to was, if you have good at bats with said player, then you should be in the neighborhood of said players real life achievements. This cannot be done with zone hitting because a user that is really good at pci placement, can over achieve with any player in the game. We just don’t like the same style games. That’s it, nothing more, nothing less. This will never happen anyway, I am too much in the minority for it to happen. Most people don’t want a sim game. That’s why games like call of duty do so well.
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@sean_87__psn said in Questions still not answered:
@a_perfectgame said in Questions still not answered:
@sean_87__psn said in Questions still not answered:
Get rid of the tennis racquet size zone then. Let’s see what happens with zone being the actual size of the bat. Lol.
One thing I really don’t understand is you’ve been pushing for a simulation style game for awhile — if you want that why does it have to be another user?(head to head).
It’s because you want the thrill of competing but you don’t want to have to use the tools you need to compete. there was a time you actually pushed to completely dumb the game down to be completely based on the cards you use? You get that offline. You want to be able to say you beat someone else? I don’t understand the thinking behind this. Why would you want to achieve something you didn’t earn? Seems strange.
Not to be an a hole. I just really am trying to grasp the thinking behind wanting competing with other humans to be a lottery...it doesn’t make much sense to me.
We just don’t like the same kind of games, that’s all. If we all played a sim game it’s still competition. If we play an arcade game, it’s still competition. All I ever said I wanted was the players to be represented accurately. I’m not talking about helping a guy out that swings at every pitch out of the zone, or a guy who throw pitches down the middle. All I ever referred to was, if you have good at bats with said player, then you should be in the neighborhood of said players real life achievements. This cannot be done with zone hitting because a user that is really good at pci placement, can over achieve with any player in the game. We just don’t like the same style games. That’s it, nothing more, nothing less. This will never happen anyway, I am too much in the minority for it to happen. Most people don’t want a sim game. That’s why games like call of duty do so well.
If they could differentiate the behavior between modes then i don't think you would be minority. Unfortunately what you are asking for and points others are making against it it essentially sounds like two different games. Do i think there is a place and use for this? Absolutely! I think Franchise, Leagues and possibly even RTTS would benefit from somthing to this effect, but for competitive play the stats should reflect how each individual person uses player.
Which leads me to point out that is why card diversity in DD is so important. I'm going to use yourself and perfectgame as an example.
You might hit better with lets say Craig Biggio than perfect game does and vise versa perfectgame might hit better with Mickey. When it comes to competitive people just don't want obstacles that prevent them from being better/worse than what they are. But it's one of the things i love about DD is the diversity of cards, it allows you to find cards that fits your playing style.
Some think the price of card is based off of how good they are but in reality the price usually leans more to demand for a collection of some sort. But even then if you spend a million stubs on a card and perfectgame spends a million stubs on same card card in competitive play the stats should reflect individual use.
This would be better explained if other factors in game were lined up right to coincide with this, which is what we are seeing so far in the Feature videos they are going in the right direction to meet both of your needs in a way but it will not happen overnight. Hang in there these developers are good at what they do.
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@sean_87__psn said in Questions still not answered:
@dolenz_psn said in Questions still not answered:
@sean_87__psn said in Questions still not answered:
@dolenz_psn said in Questions still not answered:
@sean_87__psn said in Questions still not answered:
@a_perfectgame said in Questions still not answered:
@sean_87__psn said in Questions still not answered:
@gradekthebard said in Questions still not answered:
I took it as implied since they have been given the opportunity to say if any input options weren't available and have every time answered that the one in question was. Yes, it would be nice to have a little more specificity, but the implication has been that all options are still in the game.
What I never understood is why it would matter, since all of the options you are asking about are not very competitive in h2h play and anyone using them is playing at a disadvantage.
I believe I answered you on this before. It’s the way I like to play. I don’t care if I’m at a disadvantage. I don’t like seeing all that junk on the screen. For me personally, it takes away from the game. Yes, I know I’m different, but I like to play games that are more grounded to reality. I don’t like games like call of duty. I like arma, squad, the old socom games, the old ghost recon games. It’s too bad they don’t make mil-sim shooters for the consoles anymore. It’s all fake arcade type stuff. That’s the reason I don’t like playing with the same settings as you or I’m guessing the majority of people on this form.
I get what you are saying but you also want to be competitive online and in my personal opinion that’s where I have a problem with it.
I think you should be able to play however you want but not in ranked seasons and battle Royale.
It’s still competitive. If the game was truly a sim game you just wouldn’t be able to play above a cards capabilities like you can now. It’s just more realistic, not less competitive. I think you and others just like a certain play style that’s not realistic. Nothing wrong with that, just not my cup of tea.
Any time you add in the gamers skill with the controller or their reflexes into the equation then the stats are going to become less and less like a sim. I am not sure there is any way to allow player control in a competitive mode and keep the game in line with true simulation. When I bat only .200 with Mickey Mantle and someone else bats .400 plus with him then true simulation gameplay is out the window.
I wonder how Franchise players who play out their games deal with this conundrum. Seems like anytime you put someone on a controller that stats will become less realistic.
Perfect Team in Out of The Park Baseball on the PC is probably the closest that you will get to true simulation but of course you don't actually play those games. You set your lineup and strategies and then the games themselves are all simulated. It is basically that games version of Diamond Dynasty for the hardcore sim fans.
I get what you are saying, but I don’t think you should be able to over perform with a player. Under perform, yes, but for someone to be able to bat .400 with a average mlb player is ridiculous. Some people can do that with any player in the game and I personally think it’s too far out there for my liking. Too arcade like.
So how do you limit them? Start giving them arbitrary outs when they reach some threshold? I just don't know how you compensate for user skill in a manner that is fair. Start letting the opponent get cheap hits when a pitchers era gets too high, or when they reach unrealistic strike out numbers?
It is an extremely slippery slope.
You can’t do it with their current engine and gameplay styles. The tech they use is too outdated for something that sophisticated. You wouldn’t be able to do it with that giant circle people use to hit with called zone either. Don’t worry, they will never make the game realistic, I am in the minority, I know that.
I will never understand why anyone would want this online. Although I don’t understand a lot of things about the world nowadays...
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@a_perfectgame said in Questions still not answered:
@sean_87__psn said in Questions still not answered:
@dolenz_psn said in Questions still not answered:
@sean_87__psn said in Questions still not answered:
@dolenz_psn said in Questions still not answered:
@sean_87__psn said in Questions still not answered:
@a_perfectgame said in Questions still not answered:
@sean_87__psn said in Questions still not answered:
@gradekthebard said in Questions still not answered:
I took it as implied since they have been given the opportunity to say if any input options weren't available and have every time answered that the one in question was. Yes, it would be nice to have a little more specificity, but the implication has been that all options are still in the game.
What I never understood is why it would matter, since all of the options you are asking about are not very competitive in h2h play and anyone using them is playing at a disadvantage.
I believe I answered you on this before. It’s the way I like to play. I don’t care if I’m at a disadvantage. I don’t like seeing all that junk on the screen. For me personally, it takes away from the game. Yes, I know I’m different, but I like to play games that are more grounded to reality. I don’t like games like call of duty. I like arma, squad, the old socom games, the old ghost recon games. It’s too bad they don’t make mil-sim shooters for the consoles anymore. It’s all fake arcade type stuff. That’s the reason I don’t like playing with the same settings as you or I’m guessing the majority of people on this form.
I get what you are saying but you also want to be competitive online and in my personal opinion that’s where I have a problem with it.
I think you should be able to play however you want but not in ranked seasons and battle Royale.
It’s still competitive. If the game was truly a sim game you just wouldn’t be able to play above a cards capabilities like you can now. It’s just more realistic, not less competitive. I think you and others just like a certain play style that’s not realistic. Nothing wrong with that, just not my cup of tea.
Any time you add in the gamers skill with the controller or their reflexes into the equation then the stats are going to become less and less like a sim. I am not sure there is any way to allow player control in a competitive mode and keep the game in line with true simulation. When I bat only .200 with Mickey Mantle and someone else bats .400 plus with him then true simulation gameplay is out the window.
I wonder how Franchise players who play out their games deal with this conundrum. Seems like anytime you put someone on a controller that stats will become less realistic.
Perfect Team in Out of The Park Baseball on the PC is probably the closest that you will get to true simulation but of course you don't actually play those games. You set your lineup and strategies and then the games themselves are all simulated. It is basically that games version of Diamond Dynasty for the hardcore sim fans.
I get what you are saying, but I don’t think you should be able to over perform with a player. Under perform, yes, but for someone to be able to bat .400 with a average mlb player is ridiculous. Some people can do that with any player in the game and I personally think it’s too far out there for my liking. Too arcade like.
So how do you limit them? Start giving them arbitrary outs when they reach some threshold? I just don't know how you compensate for user skill in a manner that is fair. Start letting the opponent get cheap hits when a pitchers era gets too high, or when they reach unrealistic strike out numbers?
It is an extremely slippery slope.
You can’t do it with their current engine and gameplay styles. The tech they use is too outdated for something that sophisticated. You wouldn’t be able to do it with that giant circle people use to hit with called zone either. Don’t worry, they will never make the game realistic, I am in the minority, I know that.
I will never understand why anyone would want this online. Although I don’t understand a lot of things about the world nowadays...
Well he made it clear it's b/c he doesn't like alot things on his screen that other modes have and i respect that. They advertise the game play the way you like and if that's what he like i mean so be it. His hard earned money bought it right? He is just wanting a more realistic feel to the game.
When i play online i dont care what my record is, i don't care where i am on the leaderboard and i dont care what my rating is as long as i get to play a fun baseball game that is all that matters.
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I don’t get the sim model for competition. Maybe in a sim only league yes. But if everyone has the same team/ similar team then what determines the win? RNG? If both throw Kershaw, how does the game decide which Kershaw gets better results?
I’d also argue zone is more realistic than directional, because you have to use hand eye coordination which is much more like real hitting than strictly timing.
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@dolenz_psn said in Questions still not answered:
@sean_87__psn said in Questions still not answered:
@a_perfectgame said in Questions still not answered:
@sean_87__psn said in Questions still not answered:
@gradekthebard said in Questions still not answered:
I took it as implied since they have been given the opportunity to say if any input options weren't available and have every time answered that the one in question was. Yes, it would be nice to have a little more specificity, but the implication has been that all options are still in the game.
What I never understood is why it would matter, since all of the options you are asking about are not very competitive in h2h play and anyone using them is playing at a disadvantage.
I believe I answered you on this before. It’s the way I like to play. I don’t care if I’m at a disadvantage. I don’t like seeing all that junk on the screen. For me personally, it takes away from the game. Yes, I know I’m different, but I like to play games that are more grounded to reality. I don’t like games like call of duty. I like arma, squad, the old socom games, the old ghost recon games. It’s too bad they don’t make mil-sim shooters for the consoles anymore. It’s all fake arcade type stuff. That’s the reason I don’t like playing with the same settings as you or I’m guessing the majority of people on this form.
I get what you are saying but you also want to be competitive online and in my personal opinion that’s where I have a problem with it.
I think you should be able to play however you want but not in ranked seasons and battle Royale.
It’s still competitive. If the game was truly a sim game you just wouldn’t be able to play above a cards capabilities like you can now. It’s just more realistic, not less competitive. I think you and others just like a certain play style that’s not realistic. Nothing wrong with that, just not my cup of tea.
Any time you add in the gamers skill with the controller or their reflexes into the equation then the stats are going to become less and less like a sim. I am not sure there is any way to allow player control in a competitive mode and keep the game in line with true simulation. When I bat only .200 with Mickey Mantle and someone else bats .400 plus with him then true simulation gameplay is out the window.
I wonder how Franchise players who play out their games deal with this conundrum. Seems like anytime you put someone on a controller that stats will become less realistic.
Perfect Team in Out of The Park Baseball on the PC is probably the closest that you will get to true simulation but of course you don't actually play those games. You set your lineup and strategies and then the games themselves are all simulated. It is basically that games version of Diamond Dynasty for the hardcore sim fans.
This and your next post are great.
That’s all I got to say.
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A baseball game cannot be grounded in reality and be a simulation baseball game. Correct me if I am wrong, a more “simulation” game would only allow for cards to perform as their previous stats. Stats are where the creators get their attributes. An attribute of 40 power shouldn’t allow cards to hit a ton of hrs. But irl Baseball players have ups and downs in their careers. Their attributes can change dramatically from one year to the next. Example- Jose Bautista played above his stats when he hit 50 hrs in 2010. Before that he never hit more than 16 hrs. User input with the meters and batters eye allow that to occur.
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@crimson_monk said in Questions still not answered:
I don’t get the sim model for competition. Maybe in a sim only league yes. But if everyone has the same team/ similar team then what determines the win? RNG? If both throw Kershaw, how does the game decide which Kershaw gets better results?
I’d also argue zone is more realistic than directional, because you have to use hand eye coordination which is much more like real hitting than strictly timing.
Simple really, pitch selection and location. Did you or your opponent swing at pitches out of zone frequently? On the hitting side of your question, you have to remember it’s not you hitting a baseball, your controlling a player hitting a baseball. Like I said in an earlier post, if your really good at pci placement, you can put up unrealistic numbers with any player in the game. That’s why zone isn’t more realistic.
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@sean_87__psn said in Questions still not answered:
@crimson_monk said in Questions still not answered:
I don’t get the sim model for competition. Maybe in a sim only league yes. But if everyone has the same team/ similar team then what determines the win? RNG? If both throw Kershaw, how does the game decide which Kershaw gets better results?
I’d also argue zone is more realistic than directional, because you have to use hand eye coordination which is much more like real hitting than strictly timing.
Simple really, pitch selection and location. Did you or your opponent swing at pitches out of zone frequently? On the hitting side of your question, you have to remember it’s not you hitting a baseball, your controlling a player hitting a baseball. Like I said in an earlier post, if your really good at pci placement, you can put up unrealistic numbers with any player in the game. That’s why zone isn’t more realistic.
If you are really bad at timing you can put up unrealistic numbers with good players with directional. Your argument is a logical fallacy sir.
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@a_perfectgame said in Questions still not answered:
@sean_87__psn said in Questions still not answered:
@crimson_monk said in Questions still not answered:
I don’t get the sim model for competition. Maybe in a sim only league yes. But if everyone has the same team/ similar team then what determines the win? RNG? If both throw Kershaw, how does the game decide which Kershaw gets better results?
I’d also argue zone is more realistic than directional, because you have to use hand eye coordination which is much more like real hitting than strictly timing.
Simple really, pitch selection and location. Did you or your opponent swing at pitches out of zone frequently? On the hitting side of your question, you have to remember it’s not you hitting a baseball, your controlling a player hitting a baseball. Like I said in an earlier post, if your really good at pci placement, you can put up unrealistic numbers with any player in the game. That’s why zone isn’t more realistic.
If you are really bad at timing you can put up unrealistic numbers with good players with directional. Your argument is a logical fallacy sir.
You made my point. That’s where the user vs user competition comes in to play. Are you better with said player than I am
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@nflman2033 said in Questions still not answered:
@dolenz_psn said in Questions still not answered:
@a_perfectgame said in Questions still not answered:
I don’t understand how they could allow directional or analog in competitive play. I think it should be mandatory to use zone or pure analog with stride.
Save the timing interfaces for offline play and casual.
That would obviously make the most sense
I am still not sure why people care. If you tell me that you are going to allow my opponents to use tools that give me an advantage then who am I to complain?
But the bottom line is how many people use it in the competitive modes. If those people are likely to spend money on stubs to chase cards to play a mode that they will be less competitive playing then I can't see SDS removing it.
Also, if SDS are tracking enough stats they might even have the data that shows where those who use directional finish in ranked seasons. If the vast majority of those players appear in the lower half of the ranked seasons divisions then they will not see an issue with it.
Yes, I will never understand why people get upset at other players for using inputs online that have more RNG.
I just don’t like missing because I can’t decide where to put the bat on the ball; usually after a couple innings I just give up. You want to use directional? Fine by me. I have more control and if I f up it’s on me.
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@sean_87__psn said in Questions still not answered:
Not quite what I’m saying. If you look up natural motion. That’s what I would like to see.
Since it’s like the 15th time you’ve mentioned this i gotta say I feel like you never played this game if you think that’s how MLB should be designed. Its very much a niche game with extremely unrealistic hits. It’s literally called BACK BREAKER. It wasn’t in any way a sim. It’s a 10+ year old upgraded version of NFL blitz with an opening scene where a QBs fingers are ripped apart from his hand in the championship game.
Maybe that’s not who has the script for the most realistic MLB the show.
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@charterbus_psn said in Questions still not answered:
@sean_87__psn said in Questions still not answered:
Not quite what I’m saying. If you look up natural motion. That’s what I would like to see.
Since it’s like the 15th time you’ve mentioned this i gotta say I feel like you never played this game if you think that’s how MLB should be designed. Its very much a niche game with extremely unrealistic hits. It’s literally called BACK BREAKER. It wasn’t in any way a sim. It’s a 10+ year old upgraded version of NFL blitz with an opening scene where a QBs fingers are ripped apart from his hand in the championship game.
Maybe that’s not who has the script for the most realistic MLB the show.
Dig a little deeper my friend. The engine (euphoria) was created by a couple of college dropouts and they made that game back breaker as basically a prototype to show off the physics capabilities of the engine they created. Then other games started using it before recently they stopped allowing 3rd party companies to use it. You may have heard of one of them, grand theft auto? The back breaker game was not about making a sim football game, just showing off tech. By the way, I have been playing this game before it was called the show.
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@sean_87__psn said in Questions still not answered:
@gradekthebard said in Questions still not answered:
I took it as implied since they have been given the opportunity to say if any input options weren't available and have every time answered that the one in question was. Yes, it would be nice to have a little more specificity, but the implication has been that all options are still in the game.
What I never understood is why it would matter, since all of the options you are asking about are not very competitive in h2h play and anyone using them is playing at a disadvantage.
I believe I answered you on this before. It’s the way I like to play. I don’t care if I’m at a disadvantage. I don’t like seeing all that junk on the screen. For me personally, it takes away from the game. Yes, I know I’m different, but I like to play games that are more grounded to reality. I don’t like games like call of duty. I like arma, squad, the old socom games, the old ghost recon games. It’s too bad they don’t make mil-sim shooters for the consoles anymore. It’s all fake arcade type stuff. That’s the reason I don’t like playing with the same settings as you or I’m guessing the majority of people on this form.
If you’re interested in zone you can still use it and turn your pci off. You will still have to move it to hit the ball but your screen will be clean.
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@yankblan_psn said in Questions still not answered:
@nflman2033 said in Questions still not answered:
@dolenz_psn said in Questions still not answered:
@a_perfectgame said in Questions still not answered:
I don’t understand how they could allow directional or analog in competitive play. I think it should be mandatory to use zone or pure analog with stride.
Save the timing interfaces for offline play and casual.
That would obviously make the most sense
I am still not sure why people care. If you tell me that you are going to allow my opponents to use tools that give me an advantage then who am I to complain?
But the bottom line is how many people use it in the competitive modes. If those people are likely to spend money on stubs to chase cards to play a mode that they will be less competitive playing then I can't see SDS removing it.
Also, if SDS are tracking enough stats they might even have the data that shows where those who use directional finish in ranked seasons. If the vast majority of those players appear in the lower half of the ranked seasons divisions then they will not see an issue with it.
Yes, I will never understand why people get upset at other players for using inputs online that have more RNG.
I just don’t like missing because I can’t decide where to put the bat on the ball; usually after a couple innings I just give up. You want to use directional? Fine by me. I have more control and if I f up it’s on me.
Yeah, and I am more than cool with you using directional, because you are allowing the cpu to more control over your outcome than I will.
I see the same thing happening in NBA 2k, people complain when they face players who play off ball, in other words they control say the center and let the CPU guard them. If you can't beat the CPU who is guarding you H2H it means you can't beat the CPU on All Star, that is on you.
I don't like trusting the CPU to guard for me, just as I don't want my outcomes to be RNG. If I swing and miss at a pitch, that is on me sucking and not hitting a button and the RNG says I am not getting a hit here.
But if you are ok with RNG, that is fine with me.
