Will Rivera be a letdown?
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He did throw a slider for a little while, but it eventually morphed into his cutter.
You can see this by looking on Fangraphs at his pitch selection, and see his slider velocity go up each year until it hit 90’s, then it began to be classified as a cutter.
Give him a cutter, 4SFB, sinker, slider, changeup and he’ll be dominant
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ppl had success with LS hader that only had 2 fastballs and a slider. I thinks mo's cutter will be even better than 99 jensen they'll probably give the best version of Mo a change up or some other equalizer as they did with finest hader.
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@pfcorporate said in Will Rivera be a letdown?:
Mariano seems like he will be one of those cards that everyone wants and is definitely a good move for sds but how effective will he be? Obviously in real life his cutter is insane and almost unhittable. But that is basically all he threw. If they follow his actual repertoire he would have a cutter, 2 seam, and 4 seam. Depending on how the game plays next year he could end up being a disappointment. I think that pitch mix in this years game would get crushed. Maybe if they make the 2 seam a sinker that really runs and you have cover both sides of the plate he will be tough but without something off speed he might be pretty easy to read.
In this years game I love kenley and his cutter is really good but if you take away his slider I think he gets killed. I feel like that is the pitch that keeps people off balance.Yeah, this topic has been talked about for years now. I guess it depends on the opponent and how good you are as a pitcher. If your opponent has a problem with movement, he should be good as 2 seam breaks opposite of cutter, and if you can mix the movement in a way that fools your opponent to think it's one pitch when it's the other. His per 9s are going to be great giving your opponent smaller PCI, What he will lack is that drastic change of speeds. I will be curious to hear how he does for people, especially at the WS level.
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Mo's cutter will move unnaturally far for one, he'll elsa probably have an eh Slider and Sinker, possibly a change
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If SDS wants to make Mariano Rivera one of the best cards in the game despite the fact that he was primarily a one pitch guy, they have to power to do it.
I am definitely not a game developer, but I assume they would need to tweak stuff in the backend so that there is a lower percentage of solid contact made when the ball is squared up when he pitches. We all know there is an element of RNG in the game. It won’t matter that they only give him a cutter if only 1/X squared up / good timing swings actually produce a hit.
*I want to add that I’m not saying it’s necessarily a good idea to further dilute player input from the equation. I’m just saying they are capable of doing it.
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That's where you see the limitations of video games vs real-life; it's the reverse effect of the knuckle ball pitchers. IRL if the pitch is that good, very few can hit it successfully and you can throw it 90% of times; but if someone throws all cutters in The Show, he'll get hammered. You have to artificially bump up his repertoire. In the Show you can sit on a cutter on your hands and yank it; try that IRL without throwing your back while breaking your bat.
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If his cutter is anything like it has been the past few years, he's going to be obsolete quick. If they make his cutter have sharper break, and later he may be the best pitcher in the game.
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You make a valid point, however we haven't seen many pitchers (especially out of the bullpen) who control a truly elite cutter. I'd say Kenley throws a decent one, but Mariano's should cut way and way more.
Also, everybody seems to be hesitant to spam cutters because of the pitching randomness. You can hit your meter and still throw it over the middle and like everyone knows, cutters get absolutely crushed if you hit them. If you can hit your spots consistently however, you can dominate using just that pitch.
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@DriveByTrucker17 said in Will Rivera be a letdown?:
He did throw a slider for a little while, but it eventually morphed into his cutter.
You can see this by looking on Fangraphs at his pitch selection, and see his slider velocity go up each year until it hit 90’s, then it began to be classified as a cutter.
Give him a cutter, 4SFB, sinker, slider, changeup and he’ll be dominant
So, give him 3 pitches he never threw as a reliever?
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@SefarR said in Will Rivera be a letdown?:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Will Rivera be a letdown?:
He did throw a slider for a little while, but it eventually morphed into his cutter.
You can see this by looking on Fangraphs at his pitch selection, and see his slider velocity go up each year until it hit 90’s, then it began to be classified as a cutter.
Give him a cutter, 4SFB, sinker, slider, changeup and he’ll be dominant
So, give him 3 pitches he never threw as a reliever?
Yeah, pretty much. They basically did the same thing with SS Kerry Wood. They took every pitch he’s thrown, even if he didn’t throw it as a starter.
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@SefarR said in Will Rivera be a letdown?:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in Will Rivera be a letdown?:
He did throw a slider for a little while, but it eventually morphed into his cutter.
You can see this by looking on Fangraphs at his pitch selection, and see his slider velocity go up each year until it hit 90’s, then it began to be classified as a cutter.
Give him a cutter, 4SFB, sinker, slider, changeup and he’ll be dominant
So, give him 3 pitches he never threw as a reliever?
Hey why not? Signature Series cards make players better than they really were. May as well take the next step in the evolution of getting further away from the players being like their real life counterparts.
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Mo was a sinker/slider type of starting pitcher through the minors and during his brief stint as a starting pitcher for the Yankees.
He mostly threw four seamers as a high leverage reliever in 96, then the cutter showed up in 97 and became pretty much the only thing he threw until his final seasons when he mixed in a two seamer.
Like somebody said earlier, a SS version might include all of those pitches, which would make him play nothing at all like his real life counterpart.
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Only when facing Luis Gonzalez.
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@pfcorporate said in Will Rivera be a letdown?:
Mariano seems like he will be one of those cards that everyone wants and is definitely a good move for sds but how effective will he be? Obviously in real life his cutter is insane and almost unhittable. But that is basically all he threw. If they follow his actual repertoire he would have a cutter, 2 seam, and 4 seam. Depending on how the game plays next year he could end up being a disappointment. I think that pitch mix in this years game would get crushed. Maybe if they make the 2 seam a sinker that really runs and you have cover both sides of the plate he will be tough but without something off speed he might be pretty easy to read.
In this years game I love kenley and his cutter is really good but if you take away his slider I think he gets killed. I feel like that is the pitch that keeps people off balance.If you know how to use the cutter in the show, you people can’t touch it. Hoffman’s cutter and Davis’ cutter are very effective
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@tommynachoes said in Will Rivera be a letdown?:
@pfcorporate said in Will Rivera be a letdown?:
Mariano seems like he will be one of those cards that everyone wants and is definitely a good move for sds but how effective will he be? Obviously in real life his cutter is insane and almost unhittable. But that is basically all he threw. If they follow his actual repertoire he would have a cutter, 2 seam, and 4 seam. Depending on how the game plays next year he could end up being a disappointment. I think that pitch mix in this years game would get crushed. Maybe if they make the 2 seam a sinker that really runs and you have cover both sides of the plate he will be tough but without something off speed he might be pretty easy to read.
In this years game I love kenley and his cutter is really good but if you take away his slider I think he gets killed. I feel like that is the pitch that keeps people off balance.If you know how to use the cutter in the show, you people can’t touch it. Hoffman’s cutter and Davis’ cutter are very effective
absolutely loved Davis this year what a beast sub 1.5 era after like 60 games online with him
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@tommynachoes said in Will Rivera be a letdown?:
@pfcorporate said in Will Rivera be a letdown?:
Mariano seems like he will be one of those cards that everyone wants and is definitely a good move for sds but how effective will he be? Obviously in real life his cutter is insane and almost unhittable. But that is basically all he threw. If they follow his actual repertoire he would have a cutter, 2 seam, and 4 seam. Depending on how the game plays next year he could end up being a disappointment. I think that pitch mix in this years game would get crushed. Maybe if they make the 2 seam a sinker that really runs and you have cover both sides of the plate he will be tough but without something off speed he might be pretty easy to read.
In this years game I love kenley and his cutter is really good but if you take away his slider I think he gets killed. I feel like that is the pitch that keeps people off balance.If you know how to use the cutter in the show, you people can’t touch it. Hoffman’s cutter and Davis’ cutter are very effective
Problem is that most people in the higher tiers CAN hit that cutter and if you make solid contact on it, it's launched to Jupiter.
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Mariano in real life was game breaking. They will need to do something almost game breaking to make him play correct.
- His control needs to be pin point.
- Velocity on cutter and 2- seamer need to be through the roof
- Movement on both needs to be insane
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@tommynachoes said in Will Rivera be a letdown?:
@pfcorporate said in Will Rivera be a letdown?:
Mariano seems like he will be one of those cards that everyone wants and is definitely a good move for sds but how effective will he be? Obviously in real life his cutter is insane and almost unhittable. But that is basically all he threw. If they follow his actual repertoire he would have a cutter, 2 seam, and 4 seam. Depending on how the game plays next year he could end up being a disappointment. I think that pitch mix in this years game would get crushed. Maybe if they make the 2 seam a sinker that really runs and you have cover both sides of the plate he will be tough but without something off speed he might be pretty easy to read.
In this years game I love kenley and his cutter is really good but if you take away his slider I think he gets killed. I feel like that is the pitch that keeps people off balance.If you know how to use the cutter in the show, you people can’t touch it. Hoffman’s cutter and Davis’ cutter are very effective
- Davis isn’t that special
- Both those guys have a offspeed pitch to keep you honest
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@Maverick31762 said in Will Rivera be a letdown?:
@tommynachoes said in Will Rivera be a letdown?:
@pfcorporate said in Will Rivera be a letdown?:
Mariano seems like he will be one of those cards that everyone wants and is definitely a good move for sds but how effective will he be? Obviously in real life his cutter is insane and almost unhittable. But that is basically all he threw. If they follow his actual repertoire he would have a cutter, 2 seam, and 4 seam. Depending on how the game plays next year he could end up being a disappointment. I think that pitch mix in this years game would get crushed. Maybe if they make the 2 seam a sinker that really runs and you have cover both sides of the plate he will be tough but without something off speed he might be pretty easy to read.
In this years game I love kenley and his cutter is really good but if you take away his slider I think he gets killed. I feel like that is the pitch that keeps people off balance.If you know how to use the cutter in the show, you people can’t touch it. Hoffman’s cutter and Davis’ cutter are very effective
- Davis isn’t that special
- Both those guys have a offspeed pitch to keep you honest
Completely agree with both of these statements. Davis’ control is below stats and people mash off him. That said, his cutter has probably been his most effective non-off speed pitch for me.
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