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I think that this is getting blown up a bit, yes they took sign stealing to far. Yes they were testing the limits of what was ok and not ok. But how often was it used? How often did it help. Even if you know a breaking ball is coming and you lay off doesn't mean it won't catch part of the black. Or if you know it is fastball, doesn't mean you can catch it. It is a hard game to play, and because of that guys have always been trying to cheat a little. We only go after the guys who get caught, while so many others act like they haven't done something similar. A lot of things still have to go right even if you know what the pitch is.
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@rb9andrus said in Astros cheating Scandal:
I think that this is getting blown up a bit, yes they took sign stealing to far. Yes they were testing the limits of what was ok and not ok. But how often was it used? How often did it help. Even if you know a breaking ball is coming and you lay off doesn't mean it won't catch part of the black. Or if you know it is fastball, doesn't mean you can catch it. It is a hard game to play, and because of that guys have always been trying to cheat a little. We only go after the guys who get caught, while so many others act like they haven't done something similar. A lot of things still have to go right even if you know what the pitch is.
My man these are professional hitters. Yes, you still have to put bat on the ball but when you know what is coming, it is far easier to then either make the decision to swing or not based on the path of the ball. Just look at the 2017 post-season split statistics of Astro players and then tell me it doesn't help TREMENDOUSLY.
Once this all came out many MLB pitchers went on to say they would rather face a guy on roids then face someone who knows whats coming. The guys on roids who got caught got big suspensions handed to them...just saying.
What team are you a fan of?
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It just made them look worse tbh. The whole thing came off as extremely arrogant and unapologetic. Most of the things said sounded like they were straight from a lawyer’s mouth, not somebody that is genuinely remorseful.
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@rb9andrus said in Astros cheating Scandal:
I think that this is getting blown up a bit, yes they took sign stealing to far. Yes they were testing the limits of what was ok and not ok. But how often was it used? How often did it help. Even if you know a breaking ball is coming and you lay off doesn't mean it won't catch part of the black. Or if you know it is fastball, doesn't mean you can catch it. It is a hard game to play, and because of that guys have always been trying to cheat a little. We only go after the guys who get caught, while so many others act like they haven't done something similar. A lot of things still have to go right even if you know what the pitch is.
But knowing what the pitch is is more than half the battle.
Example:
I played semi pro/collegiate ball for a couple seasons and there was a dude on my team who could throw GAS 97+ MPH. But he had like no usable offspeed pitches and walked a ton of guys. When we'd take live BP off him, the pitching coach would use it as an opportunity for him to work on his offspeed and would call out to him "change up" or "curveball" loud enough for everyone to hear it. When he wasn't walking dudes or beaning dudes, we hit it when we knew it was coming. We didn't hit it if we didn't know it was coming.If you're geared up for that quick of a fastball, it's incredibly difficult to make the adjustment to an offspeed pitch. Unless you know it's coming. To act like that in itself isn't a huge advantage is just blind.
It's a massive advantage, compounded even more so at the MLB level.
It isn't "taking an advantage" or "testing the limits". It is 1000% cheating, and there is no way to validate it, and there is no minimizing it.
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@DriveByTrucker17 said in Astros cheating Scandal:
It just made them look worse tbh. The whole thing came off as extremely arrogant and unapologetic. Most of the things said sounded like they were straight from a lawyer’s mouth, not somebody that is genuinely remorseful.
Bregman sounded like a robot no cap that was so bad haha
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I'm thinking theres going to be a lot of Astros getting beaned this season.
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Here's to hoping at least 2 teams finish in front of them
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I will say, they will make the Disastros road games very entertaining, oh yes....there will be chin music
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@LankyRyan said in Astros cheating Scandal:
@rb9andrus said in Astros cheating Scandal:
I think that this is getting blown up a bit, yes they took sign stealing to far. Yes they were testing the limits of what was ok and not ok. But how often was it used? How often did it help. Even if you know a breaking ball is coming and you lay off doesn't mean it won't catch part of the black. Or if you know it is fastball, doesn't mean you can catch it. It is a hard game to play, and because of that guys have always been trying to cheat a little. We only go after the guys who get caught, while so many others act like they haven't done something similar. A lot of things still have to go right even if you know what the pitch is.
But knowing what the pitch is is more than half the battle.
Example:
I played semi pro/collegiate ball for a couple seasons and there was a dude on my team who could throw GAS 97+ MPH. But he had like no usable offspeed pitches and walked a ton of guys. When we'd take live BP off him, the pitching coach would use it as an opportunity for him to work on his offspeed and would call out to him "change up" or "curveball" loud enough for everyone to hear it. When he wasn't walking dudes or beaning dudes, we hit it when we knew it was coming. We didn't hit it if we didn't know it was coming.If you're geared up for that quick of a fastball, it's incredibly difficult to make the adjustment to an offspeed pitch. Unless you know it's coming. To act like that in itself isn't a huge advantage is just blind.
It's a massive advantage, compounded even more so at the MLB level.
It isn't "taking an advantage" or "testing the limits". It is 1000% cheating, and there is no way to validate it, and there is no minimizing it.
To your point, "If it's high, let it fly. If it's low, let it go."
If you know the pitcher is throwing a slider, curve, or change, you know how it's going to break.
If it's up, it will probably hang int he zone. If it's down, it's almost definitely a ball.
I can't imagine how easy hitting would have been in college with "guess pitch" mode on lol.
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@DanTheThriller said in Astros cheating Scandal:
@LankyRyan said in Astros cheating Scandal:
@rb9andrus said in Astros cheating Scandal:
I think that this is getting blown up a bit, yes they took sign stealing to far. Yes they were testing the limits of what was ok and not ok. But how often was it used? How often did it help. Even if you know a breaking ball is coming and you lay off doesn't mean it won't catch part of the black. Or if you know it is fastball, doesn't mean you can catch it. It is a hard game to play, and because of that guys have always been trying to cheat a little. We only go after the guys who get caught, while so many others act like they haven't done something similar. A lot of things still have to go right even if you know what the pitch is.
But knowing what the pitch is is more than half the battle.
Example:
I played semi pro/collegiate ball for a couple seasons and there was a dude on my team who could throw GAS 97+ MPH. But he had like no usable offspeed pitches and walked a ton of guys. When we'd take live BP off him, the pitching coach would use it as an opportunity for him to work on his offspeed and would call out to him "change up" or "curveball" loud enough for everyone to hear it. When he wasn't walking dudes or beaning dudes, we hit it when we knew it was coming. We didn't hit it if we didn't know it was coming.If you're geared up for that quick of a fastball, it's incredibly difficult to make the adjustment to an offspeed pitch. Unless you know it's coming. To act like that in itself isn't a huge advantage is just blind.
It's a massive advantage, compounded even more so at the MLB level.
It isn't "taking an advantage" or "testing the limits". It is 1000% cheating, and there is no way to validate it, and there is no minimizing it.
To your point, "If it's high, let it fly. If it's low, let it go."
If you know the pitcher is throwing a slider, curve, or change, you know how it's going to break.
If it's up, it will probably hang int he zone. If it's down, it's almost definitely a ball.
I can't imagine how easy hitting would have been in college with "guess pitch" mode on lol.
Exactly. If you know it's a curveball or slider, you can lean out and anticipate the break and hold back. If you know it's a fastball, you know to cheat early and shorten up. Knowing what pitch is coming is more than half the battle. Most hitting drills are geared towards timing, so you can adapt to the pitch mid-flight. Making meaningful contact with a pitch you know is coming really isn't that hard, unless it's a fastball you can't handle or a knuckleball or something crazy like that.
Even for folks who haven't played real baseball at a level where people throw hard and also have breaking stuff, the same idea applies when you're playing MLBTS. If you know what pitch your opponent is going to throw, it's an extreme advantage when it comes to making meaningful contact and hitting it. Claiming it isn't because "you still have to make contact with the ball" is just flat out ridiculous.
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@JustASeal0 said in Astros cheating Scandal:
Here's to hoping at least 2 teams finish in front of them
Yup and at the first losing streak of 5 plus games, they ask about this scandal
Reporter: "Why do you think your team is struggling to score runs?"
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@LankyRyan said in Astros cheating Scandal:
@DanTheThriller said in Astros cheating Scandal:
@LankyRyan said in Astros cheating Scandal:
@rb9andrus said in Astros cheating Scandal:
I think that this is getting blown up a bit, yes they took sign stealing to far. Yes they were testing the limits of what was ok and not ok. But how often was it used? How often did it help. Even if you know a breaking ball is coming and you lay off doesn't mean it won't catch part of the black. Or if you know it is fastball, doesn't mean you can catch it. It is a hard game to play, and because of that guys have always been trying to cheat a little. We only go after the guys who get caught, while so many others act like they haven't done something similar. A lot of things still have to go right even if you know what the pitch is.
But knowing what the pitch is is more than half the battle.
Example:
I played semi pro/collegiate ball for a couple seasons and there was a dude on my team who could throw GAS 97+ MPH. But he had like no usable offspeed pitches and walked a ton of guys. When we'd take live BP off him, the pitching coach would use it as an opportunity for him to work on his offspeed and would call out to him "change up" or "curveball" loud enough for everyone to hear it. When he wasn't walking dudes or beaning dudes, we hit it when we knew it was coming. We didn't hit it if we didn't know it was coming.If you're geared up for that quick of a fastball, it's incredibly difficult to make the adjustment to an offspeed pitch. Unless you know it's coming. To act like that in itself isn't a huge advantage is just blind.
It's a massive advantage, compounded even more so at the MLB level.
It isn't "taking an advantage" or "testing the limits". It is 1000% cheating, and there is no way to validate it, and there is no minimizing it.
To your point, "If it's high, let it fly. If it's low, let it go."
If you know the pitcher is throwing a slider, curve, or change, you know how it's going to break.
If it's up, it will probably hang int he zone. If it's down, it's almost definitely a ball.
I can't imagine how easy hitting would have been in college with "guess pitch" mode on lol.
Exactly. If you know it's a curveball or slider, you can lean out and anticipate the break and hold back. If you know it's a fastball, you know to cheat early and shorten up. Knowing what pitch is coming is more than half the battle. Most hitting drills are geared towards timing, so you can adapt to the pitch mid-flight. Making meaningful contact with a pitch you know is coming really isn't that hard, unless it's a fastball you can't handle or a knuckleball or something crazy like that.
Even for folks who haven't played real baseball at a level where people throw hard and also have breaking stuff, the same idea applies when you're playing MLBTS. If you know what pitch your opponent is going to throw, it's an extreme advantage when it comes to making meaningful contact and hitting it. Claiming it isn't because "you still have to make contact with the ball" is just flat out ridiculous.
I have pointed that out, multiple times: dismissing that is willful ignorance.
"Guess pitch" exists for a reason!
Also, when you watch the banging videos, the relay is sent before the wind and release, so the batter has plenty of time to adjust their approach.
Even with relievers, it's pre-wind...
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That team is a disgrace. No one will ever acknowledge a WS for that cheating team. The last 3 years should be wiped out. They are a disgrace to professional sports.
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It's too bad the rest of the AL west sucks. Angels are the best hope, but eh, and my Mariners aren't even going to be a discussion for years, if at all Lol.
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@DH_x_Legendary said in Astros cheating Scandal:
I was ready to move passed everything until they put Crane in front of a mic. Then I got mad all over again, the whole "Our opinion is that this didn't impact the game" is ludicrous
Holy moly did he really say that ? What they did 100 percent impacted the game, knowing what pitch is coming is a massive advantage... As a matter of fact it totally takes away what advantage the pitcher has...
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Manfred is a giant [censored] for not punishing the players involved. Should be at minimum 1 year suspensions. Quite honestly, I think they should be banned from the game. How do you determine what players?? Well......he’s the commissioner, it’s his job to figure that out. But as far as I’m concerned, anyone involved in this should be banned!!
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I’m a dodger fan. So, I guess I have just as much of a right to be upset as anyone. But, it’s interesting to think how all of this could have happened.
Yes, they cheated. But, the bench coach and the veteran leader were the ones that were the heads of the operation. So, if you’re a younger player who has never played for another team you might just assume that every team is doing something like this. No one from upper management told you to stop. So, you figure this must be what all big league teams do. And, as a side note, maybe in a couple years we will find out that there were others that had systems in place like this.
I do want the players to be remorseful. And, once they got in the locker room I thought their statements were much better. And, yes, the owner is an idiot for what he said yesterday. But, I do have a little sympathy for the Astros players. Maybe I’m being naive, but I’m starting to think that they really didn’t think what they did was that bad until a month ago when the report came out.
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@boogiewithstu2 said in Astros cheating Scandal:
@DH_x_Legendary said in Astros cheating Scandal:
I was ready to move passed everything until they put Crane in front of a mic. Then I got mad all over again, the whole "Our opinion is that this didn't impact the game" is ludicrous
Holy moly did he really say that ? What they did 100 percent impacted the game, knowing what pitch is coming is a massive advantage... As a matter of fact it totally takes away what advantage the pitcher has...
Yup he said that and then he tried to take it back. I hope the Astros lose 100 games this season. It wont happen but a guy can dream.
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@MathMan5072 said in Astros cheating Scandal:
I’m a dodger fan. So, I guess I have just as much of a right to be upset as anyone. But, it’s interesting to think how all of this could have happened.
Yes, they cheated. But, the bench coach and the veteran leader were the ones that were the heads of the operation. So, if you’re a younger player who has never played for another team you might just assume that every team is doing something like this. No one from upper management told you to stop. So, you figure this must be what all big league teams do. And, as a side note, maybe in a couple years we will find out that there were others that had systems in place like this.
I do want the players to be remorseful. And, once they got in the locker room I thought their statements were much better. And, yes, the owner is an idiot for what he said yesterday. But, I do have a little sympathy for the Astros players. Maybe I’m being naive, but I’m starting to think that they really didn’t think what they did was that bad until a month ago when the report came out.
Bregman and Altuve 100% knew what they were doing was wrong and were more than happy to cooperate. Both should be banned for life.
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@Doppelganger39 said in Astros cheating Scandal:
I'm thinking theres going to be a lot of Astros getting beaned this season.
Oh, I hope so. There is nothing more manly than attacking someone with a potentially deadly weapon from sixty feet and six inches away.
So brave. So manly.
