Vision as a timing handicap
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@DarthKDog09 said in Vision as a timing handicap:
It's amazing that we have to be on a forum to figure out what certain attributes actually affect. What kind of company doesn't give you that information? Why is it not transparent? why are we still wondering this after how many years? Why can't they tell us what the PCI represents and what vision effects or bb/9? everyone always guesses but there is no definitive answer which is absolutely absurd. You know what I think? It's all nonsense and some cards just hit better because of their swing. Look at the 85 mondesi card. That card rakes and his attributes are nowhere near what some cards are and he hits better than most. The game is just a fluke.
EA did the same thing, but worse, with FIFA. They have things called traits, and some of the traits would go missing in-game. There wasnt anywhere in the manuals or menus that explained what they did.
They then ended up removing some of those traits because they didnt do what they actually (later) claimed they did. When pressed on what they actually did, they said they were removed for various reasons, and that it was in the past, and they were moving forward.I'm still not over that garbage.
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When they explained clutch vs clutch being a “dance between all the attributes” when runners are in scoring position I kinda stopped trying to keep up with what does what, now contact and vision have been flipped as far as I know. Adjusting vision always changed PCI size in previous years. I felt contact had a lot to do with the timing windows but the timing window was never as visual as this year so you couldn’t really tell.
The game certainly has secrets but some do make sense like the relation between blocking and pitch release but why not just explain it?
If you test it, I would also test the amount of “perfects” you get with high/low vision players that have similar contact stats if at all possible.
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@formallyforearms said in Vision as a timing handicap:
I would guess that the "good" (green) timing is extended for better vision. I've noticed some players have much smaller green swing timing windows than others. I'm just guessing though.
So I tested this... I can’t spot a difference but you guys take a gander and see what you think. The timing window ones are towards the bottom; I also included PCI testing for both hitters and pitchers if you’re curious about that.
@ChArTeRBuS @DarthKDog09 @j9milz @formallyforearms
https://myalbum.com/album/ndEoavn4jrRs -
Interesting, I had no idea vision had an effect on timing windows. Like others have said, it's amazing that SDS doesn't explain all the machinations to us somehow, either in a video or a manual. We're always left guessing which attributes/quirks etc. change the way we play.
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@WDK19 said in Vision as a timing handicap:
So in a previous thread we determined (through a pre-launch stream and the strategy handbook) that vision indeed affects the timing window.
My question, then, is how does it do that? Does it simply extend the edges of the “very” late or early window in which you can create a foul tip? (Much like the “vision PCI” extends the regular PCI’s foul tip radius).
Or does it extend the “good” and “perfect” timing windows as well? This is an important distinction, because if vision only improves your foul tip ability, it’s close to a worthless stat, IMO at least. But if it widens the window in which you can produce a well-hit ball, it becomes exponentially more useful to have high vision.
Interested to hear any insight on this.
On a related note it would be great if SDS actually explained stuff like this to us in depth, rather than a quick line in a stream or sentence in a tutorial, leaving us to guess as we all are now.
This should definitely be addressed by someone who works at SDS.
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@vagimon said in Vision as a timing handicap:
@WDK19 said in Vision as a timing handicap:
So in a previous thread we determined (through a pre-launch stream and the strategy handbook) that vision indeed affects the timing window.
My question, then, is how does it do that? Does it simply extend the edges of the “very” late or early window in which you can create a foul tip? (Much like the “vision PCI” extends the regular PCI’s foul tip radius).
Or does it extend the “good” and “perfect” timing windows as well? This is an important distinction, because if vision only improves your foul tip ability, it’s close to a worthless stat, IMO at least. But if it widens the window in which you can produce a well-hit ball, it becomes exponentially more useful to have high vision.
Interested to hear any insight on this.
On a related note it would be great if SDS actually explained stuff like this to us in depth, rather than a quick line in a stream or sentence in a tutorial, leaving us to guess as we all are now.
This should definitely be addressed by someone who works at SDS.
they would have to understand baseball in order to explain that. They are just video game designers and put this game together with baseball cosmetics.
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Interesting how the contact only and Lowe only PCI sizes are about the same, but when they are both maxed out the pci is larger. Seems like power also has an effect on the pci size??? Wish here were was a handbook explaining this.
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@pbake12 said in Vision as a timing handicap:
Interesting how the contact only and Lowe only PCI sizes are about the same, but when they are both maxed out the pci is larger. Seems like power also has an effect on the pci size??? Wish here were was a handbook explaining this.
What I took away from the PCI experiment is that:
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contact increases the size of the inner PCI while H/9 reduces it. This PCI is the area in which you can put the ball in play on a well-timed swing.
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vision increases the size of the outer PCI while K/9 reduces it. This PCI is supposed to allow you to foul the ball off rather than swing and miss if you miss the ball with the inner PCI but nick it with the outer PCI.
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power and HR/9 have no effect on PCI size.
These takeaways seemed fairly obvious to me. But there is the wildcard of vision increasing the timing window. This I was not able to conclude, the timing meters look very similar to me, but I cannot confirm that they are the same.
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@WDK19 said in Vision as a timing handicap:
@pbake12 said in Vision as a timing handicap:
Interesting how the contact only and Lowe only PCI sizes are about the same, but when they are both maxed out the pci is larger. Seems like power also has an effect on the pci size??? Wish here were was a handbook explaining this.
What I took away from the PCI experiment is that:
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contact increases the size of the inner PCI while H/9 reduces it. This PCI is the area in which you can put the ball in play on a well-timed swing.
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vision increases the size of the outer PCI while K/9 reduces it. This PCI is supposed to allow you to foul the ball off rather than swing and miss if you miss the ball with the inner PCI but nick it with the outer PCI.
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power and HR/9 have no effect on PCI size.
These takeaways seemed fairly obvious to me. But there is the wildcard of vision increasing the timing window. This I was not able to conclude, the timing meters look very similar to me, but I cannot confirm that they are the same.
Thanks for the info, that’s what I thought, but it’s hard to tell in your pictures. Regarding the timing window, and colored scale, their is no way to tell except actually trying to time things.
The scale is just that, a scale. If you imagined the scale in length, and a 100 vision is 100 feet and 50 vision is 50 feet, the scale can still be the same size on screen, but just represent different length measurements. This would tell me that vision could effect the timing uniformly. Red, yellow, green could all be 30 feet for 100 vision but only 15 feet for 50 vision, to continue the metaphor.
Did what I write make any sense? Haha
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@pbake12 said in Vision as a timing handicap:
@WDK19 said in Vision as a timing handicap:
@pbake12 said in Vision as a timing handicap:
Interesting how the contact only and Lowe only PCI sizes are about the same, but when they are both maxed out the pci is larger. Seems like power also has an effect on the pci size??? Wish here were was a handbook explaining this.
What I took away from the PCI experiment is that:
-
contact increases the size of the inner PCI while H/9 reduces it. This PCI is the area in which you can put the ball in play on a well-timed swing.
-
vision increases the size of the outer PCI while K/9 reduces it. This PCI is supposed to allow you to foul the ball off rather than swing and miss if you miss the ball with the inner PCI but nick it with the outer PCI.
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power and HR/9 have no effect on PCI size.
These takeaways seemed fairly obvious to me. But there is the wildcard of vision increasing the timing window. This I was not able to conclude, the timing meters look very similar to me, but I cannot confirm that they are the same.
Thanks for the info, that’s what I thought, but it’s hard to tell in your pictures. Regarding the timing window, and colored scale, their is no way to tell except actually trying to time things.
The scale is just that, a scale. If you imagined the scale in length, and a 100 vision is 100 feet and 50 vision is 50 feet, the scale can still be the same size on screen, but just represent different length measurements. This would tell me that vision could effect the timing uniformly. Red, yellow, green could all be 30 feet for 100 vision but only 15 feet for 50 vision, to continue the metaphor.
Did what I write make any sense? Haha
Yes, I see what you mean. I wish they would just come out with a video or something explaining all the attributes in depth. Seems like something that should already exist. @Collin_SDS @Victor_SDS if this is something you guys could put into motion at some point, that would be awesome and I think we would all appreciate it.
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Can you guys point me to the stream that says vision effects timing window, do you have a time stamp as well?
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there is an in game strategy manual that goes into better detail than Ramone ever could on a stream.
by in-game strategy I mean actually in a play now or franchise game. It's in options and it tells you what the attributes do.
I'm quoting from the in-game -In a game strategy guide:
"Plate Vision is similar to Contact but focuses soley on the strikeout components - the rate the batter puts the ball into play and his swing and miss rate. This adjusts hitting components like your timing window, turns borderline misses into fouls, and turns borderline fouls into balls in play, etc..."
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@VeganMeatbawls said in Vision as a timing handicap:
there is an in game strategy manual that goes into better detail than Ramone ever could on a stream.
by in-game strategy I mean actually in a play now or franchise game. It's in options and it tells you what the attributes do.
I'm quoting from the in-game -In a game strategy guide:
"Plate Vision is similar to Contact but focuses soley on the strikeout components - the rate the batter puts the ball into play and his swing and miss rate. This adjusts hitting components like your timing window, turns borderline misses into fouls, and turns borderline fouls into balls in play, etc..."
That's quite interesting. Does this mean a perfect swing is easier to obtain with high vision then?
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@Ikasnu said in Vision as a timing handicap:
@VeganMeatbawls said in Vision as a timing handicap:
there is an in game strategy manual that goes into better detail than Ramone ever could on a stream.
by in-game strategy I mean actually in a play now or franchise game. It's in options and it tells you what the attributes do.
I'm quoting from the in-game -In a game strategy guide:
"Plate Vision is similar to Contact but focuses soley on the strikeout components - the rate the batter puts the ball into play and his swing and miss rate. This adjusts hitting components like your timing window, turns borderline misses into fouls, and turns borderline fouls into balls in play, etc..."
That's quite interesting. Does this mean a perfect swing is easier to obtain with high vision then?
Yes, a larger timing window will increase your perfect swing window as well, as it should. If you can't see the ball well, you won't hit the ball well. Vision has always been important in selecting my team.
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I sure wish SDS would talk about this. Anyway, I don’t suppose anyone has made those in game strategy guides available outside of games?
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I know that not many people use directional hitting, but you can feel the impact of the vision stat dramatically with it. I really wanted to use Eric Davis, but he was a whif machine for me with his low vision rating, as there was no room for any error (flat out missed on a lot of swings, even with “good” timing).
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@formallyforearms said in Vision as a timing handicap:
I would guess that the "good" (green) timing is extended for better vision. I've noticed some players have much smaller green swing timing windows than others. I'm just guessing though.
I guess that the answer I was looking for.
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@Thierry007007 said in Vision as a timing handicap:
@formallyforearms said in Vision as a timing handicap:
I would guess that the "good" (green) timing is extended for better vision. I've noticed some players have much smaller green swing timing windows than others. I'm just guessing though.
I guess that the answer I was looking for.
That isn’t confirmed, but it is our best guess based on what we’ve heard from SDS. Victor said in another thread that vision widens the timing window, but we don’t know if that includes the good and perfect windows. Forearms is speculating here that it does but we are left to guess.
If you have other questions about contact/vision I can try to answer them.
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@WDK19 said in Vision as a timing handicap:
@Thierry007007 said in Vision as a timing handicap:
@formallyforearms said in Vision as a timing handicap:
I would guess that the "good" (green) timing is extended for better vision. I've noticed some players have much smaller green swing timing windows than others. I'm just guessing though.
I guess that the answer I was looking for.
That isn’t confirmed, but it is our best guess based on what we’ve heard from SDS. Victor said in another thread that vision widens the timing window, but we don’t know if that includes the good and perfect windows. Forearms is speculating here that it does but we are left to guess.
If you have other questions about contact/vision I can try to answer them.
I have one for you actually: Does higher vision increase the chance of hitting a breaking ball ?
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@Thierry007007 said in Vision as a timing handicap:
@WDK19 said in Vision as a timing handicap:
@Thierry007007 said in Vision as a timing handicap:
@formallyforearms said in Vision as a timing handicap:
I would guess that the "good" (green) timing is extended for better vision. I've noticed some players have much smaller green swing timing windows than others. I'm just guessing though.
I guess that the answer I was looking for.
That isn’t confirmed, but it is our best guess based on what we’ve heard from SDS. Victor said in another thread that vision widens the timing window, but we don’t know if that includes the good and perfect windows. Forearms is speculating here that it does but we are left to guess.
If you have other questions about contact/vision I can try to answer them.
I have one for you actually: Does higher vision increase the chance of hitting a breaking ball ?
Not particularly, no. Not compared to a fastball at least. Do you use zone hitting?
