-
@Hikes83 said in Current discussion between MLB and MLBPA:
@VEGAS__T said in Current discussion between MLB and MLBPA:
@Hikes83 said in Current discussion between MLB and MLBPA:
I kinda agree. Millions of people without jobs and struggling to put food on the table. Meanwhile, millionaires are arguing with billionaires about money.
It’s sad really
No it’s business. And to side with the billionaires who have zero regard for the players or simple common folk is truly asinine
Read again, nowhere in my post does it say I side with anyone. I simply said that it’s sad when millionaires are arguing with billionaires. If baseball doesn’t come back for that sole reason, alot of fans won’t ever forgive baseball no matter who’s at fault
Your first words said you kinda agree.... which means you are taking a side and that side was saying the players are wrong
-
@wynsanity318 said in Current discussion between MLB and MLBPA:
yes the owners who "clearly" need the money and need baseball to be played. Let's not forget that the players wouldn't have jobs that pay them millions without the owners. The owners realistically make more money from their other business ventures for the most part and can live if there's no season. League minimum and minor league guys who live paycheck to paycheck might not make it through this so they should honestly take the deal to play. Other than the fact that realistically it seems baseball works fine in Korea right now so let's forget about the the terrible horrible no good pandemic and be real it is 100% about the money at this point
100% money agreed. However owners have more to lose than players. Franchise values will plummet if the season isn't played and 2021 starts with a players strike.
-
@mjfc_363 said in Current discussion between MLB and MLBPA:
@VEGAS__T said in Current discussion between MLB and MLBPA:
I have a feeling you don’t know the details of the proposal the owners gave the players. It was purposely disrespectful and they low balled the hell out of the players. Check the facts before you start blaming the players. It’s the owners who need a dose of reality, not the players!
Dude, I don’t give a [censored] who got disrespected!! You miss the point completely.......and so are the players and the owners.
Umm wasn’t your point the players are wrong by being selfish and need a dose of reality?
-
No, I was stating that I hope they close shop for the whole year because this argument over a few dollars in the middle of this financial crisis when millions of people are out of jobs is selfish and stupid. As far as I know, they’re both arguing and both in the wrong if nobody moves off their position. Come to some sort of agreement and playball FFS.
Greedy idiots
-
@Ikasnu said in Current discussion between MLB and MLBPA:
@wynsanity318 said in Current discussion between MLB and MLBPA:
yes the owners who "clearly" need the money and need baseball to be played. Let's not forget that the players wouldn't have jobs that pay them millions without the owners. The owners realistically make more money from their other business ventures for the most part and can live if there's no season. League minimum and minor league guys who live paycheck to paycheck might not make it through this so they should honestly take the deal to play. Other than the fact that realistically it seems baseball works fine in Korea right now so let's forget about the the terrible horrible no good pandemic and be real it is 100% about the money at this point
100% money agreed. However owners have more to lose than players. Franchise values will plummet if the season isn't played and 2021 starts with a players strike.
I can see a strike happening. Could also see owners not willing to offer any sizable contracts this winter. Any player that has an opt out, would probably be wise not to use it. Doubtful they get the same or better money than what they have now.
-
@Hikes83 said in Current discussion between MLB and MLBPA:
No, I was stating that I hope they close shop for the whole year because this argument over a few dollars in the middle of this financial crisis when millions of people are out of jobs is selfish and stupid. As far as I know, they’re both arguing and both in the wrong if nobody moves off their position. Come to some sort of agreement and playball FFS.
Greedy idiots
I just found it funny that you singled out the players instead of the owners. Because it’s not the greed of the players holding this season up, it’s the greed of the owners.
-
@VEGAS__T said in Current discussion between MLB and MLBPA:
I have a feeling you don’t know the details of the proposal the owners gave the players. It was purposely disrespectful and they low balled the hell out of the players. Check the facts before you start blaming the players. It’s the owners who need a dose of reality, not the players!
Owners profits are going to down big time with no fans. So players shouldn't sacrifice but owners should. Sorry but most people are not going to side with players that won't play for 3 months making 5 million dollars. Good luck selling that to society. Easy for people like Scherzer who have millions in the bank. This is going to fall on the players.
-
@wynsanity318 said in Current discussion between MLB and MLBPA:
yes the owners who "clearly" need the money and need baseball to be played. Let's not forget that the players wouldn't have jobs that pay them millions without the owners. The owners realistically make more money from their other business ventures for the most part and can live if there's no season. League minimum and minor league guys who live paycheck to paycheck might not make it through this so they should honestly take the deal to play. Other than the fact that realistically it seems baseball works fine in Korea right now so let's forget about the the terrible horrible no good pandemic and be real it is 100% about the money at this point
To be fair I would say at least half of the owners inherited their wealth from their fathers. Does Little Ceasars make the Illich family more money than the Tigers? Absolutely. But they are the greedy ones here. The players, as “employees” have the right to compensation for the work they do. It doesn’t matter if the players are millionaires or not. The Owners will lose far more money if we don’t have a season +next years eventual strike then if they just paid their players
-
@VEGAS__T said in Current discussion between MLB and MLBPA:
@mjfc_363 said in Current discussion between MLB and MLBPA:
@VEGAS__T said in Current discussion between MLB and MLBPA:
I have a feeling you don’t know the details of the proposal the owners gave the players. It was purposely disrespectful and they low balled the hell out of the players. Check the facts before you start blaming the players. It’s the owners who need a dose of reality, not the players!
Dude, I don’t give a [censored] who got disrespected!! You miss the point completely.......and so are the players and the owners.
Umm wasn’t your point the players are wrong by being selfish and need a dose of reality?
Bro........they ALL need a dose!!! Owners included!!! Millions are about to be homeless and starve. Who gives a rats [censored] about this nonsense!! They are about to light themselves on fire and they can’t even see it.
-
@foge011 said in Current discussion between MLB and MLBPA:
@Ikasnu said in Current discussion between MLB and MLBPA:
@wynsanity318 said in Current discussion between MLB and MLBPA:
yes the owners who "clearly" need the money and need baseball to be played. Let's not forget that the players wouldn't have jobs that pay them millions without the owners. The owners realistically make more money from their other business ventures for the most part and can live if there's no season. League minimum and minor league guys who live paycheck to paycheck might not make it through this so they should honestly take the deal to play. Other than the fact that realistically it seems baseball works fine in Korea right now so let's forget about the the terrible horrible no good pandemic and be real it is 100% about the money at this point
100% money agreed. However owners have more to lose than players. Franchise values will plummet if the season isn't played and 2021 starts with a players strike.
I can see a strike happening. Could also see owners not willing to offer any sizable contracts this winter. Any player that has an opt out, would probably be wise not to use it. Doubtful they get the same or better money than what they have now.
Veteran FA would be forced into retirement, nobody would sign them.
-
@D_e_m_I_s_E said in Current discussion between MLB and MLBPA:
@VEGAS__T said in Current discussion between MLB and MLBPA:
I have a feeling you don’t know the details of the proposal the owners gave the players. It was purposely disrespectful and they low balled the hell out of the players. Check the facts before you start blaming the players. It’s the owners who need a dose of reality, not the players!
Owners profits are going to down big time with no fans. So players shouldn't sacrifice but owners should. Sorry but most people are not going to side with players that won't play for 3 months making 5 million dollars. Good luck selling that to society. Easy for people like Scherzer who have millions in the bank. This is going to fall on the players.
So because fans aren’t going to be there the players should have to take a pay cut for that? Ok and when it’s sold out every night do the owners give the players some of the extra money?
No because that’s the risk you take on as an owner. You don’t ask your employees to pay the extra costs around the shop because customers aren’t showing up.
-
@VEGAS__T said in Current discussion between MLB and MLBPA:
@D_e_m_I_s_E said in Current discussion between MLB and MLBPA:
@VEGAS__T said in Current discussion between MLB and MLBPA:
I have a feeling you don’t know the details of the proposal the owners gave the players. It was purposely disrespectful and they low balled the hell out of the players. Check the facts before you start blaming the players. It’s the owners who need a dose of reality, not the players!
Owners profits are going to down big time with no fans. So players shouldn't sacrifice but owners should. Sorry but most people are not going to side with players that won't play for 3 months making 5 million dollars. Good luck selling that to society. Easy for people like Scherzer who have millions in the bank. This is going to fall on the players.
So because fans aren’t going to be there the players should have to take a pay cut for that? Ok and when it’s sold out every night do the owners give the players some of the extra money?
No because that’s the risk you take on as an owner. You don’t ask your employees to pay the extra costs around the shop because customers aren’t showing up.
Well put.
-
Owners are the greedy bloodsuckers in this one. Made an initial contract to player, circumstances arose so players met them in the middle to accommodate thrm....now owners want to change that deal they made to them because of some circumstance than any blind man could seek....so they want to change the deal.....tough luck .....stick by what you agree to....afterall no player will be forced to play. Imagine Angel's without trout ...how that season go or the yankees without their big bats because health risk wasnt worth the money. A season without baseball might make ownership more honest
-
@VEGAS__T said in Current discussion between MLB and MLBPA:
@D_e_m_I_s_E said in Current discussion between MLB and MLBPA:
@VEGAS__T said in Current discussion between MLB and MLBPA:
I have a feeling you don’t know the details of the proposal the owners gave the players. It was purposely disrespectful and they low balled the hell out of the players. Check the facts before you start blaming the players. It’s the owners who need a dose of reality, not the players!
Owners profits are going to down big time with no fans. So players shouldn't sacrifice but owners should. Sorry but most people are not going to side with players that won't play for 3 months making 5 million dollars. Good luck selling that to society. Easy for people like Scherzer who have millions in the bank. This is going to fall on the players.
So because fans aren’t going to be there the players should have to take a pay cut for that? Ok and when it’s sold out every night do the owners give the players some of the extra money?
No because that’s the risk you take on as an owner. You don’t ask your employees to pay the extra costs around the shop because customers aren’t showing up.
It’s not because they aren’t showing up!!! People are forced by the government to not show up!!! These are unforeseen circumstances which you can’t plan for.
You think owners don’t know the numbers??? They pay their players knowing the revenues they bring in through various ways including but not limited to TV deals, fans, concessions.
You think these owners could plan to have their multimillion employees work but not have much of a revenue in return?? That’s just plain bad business
-
@VEGAS__T said in Current discussion between MLB and MLBPA:
@D_e_m_I_s_E said in Current discussion between MLB and MLBPA:
@VEGAS__T said in Current discussion between MLB and MLBPA:
I have a feeling you don’t know the details of the proposal the owners gave the players. It was purposely disrespectful and they low balled the hell out of the players. Check the facts before you start blaming the players. It’s the owners who need a dose of reality, not the players!
Owners profits are going to down big time with no fans. So players shouldn't sacrifice but owners should. Sorry but most people are not going to side with players that won't play for 3 months making 5 million dollars. Good luck selling that to society. Easy for people like Scherzer who have millions in the bank. This is going to fall on the players.
So because fans aren’t going to be there the players should have to take a pay cut for that? Ok and when it’s sold out every night do the owners give the players some of the extra money?
No because that’s the risk you take on as an owner. You don’t ask your employees to pay the extra costs around the shop because customers aren’t showing up.
This is the best argument the players have in my opinion. The contract was a two way agreement. And, in the end, the owners are in this for the long run. Baseball will still be thriving in 10 years and most of these owners will still own the team. 80 percent of these current players will be retired by then.
Do the owners have a right to try to do what they’re doing? Of course, they sign the checks and own the franchises.
In the end, let’s just hope this is all grandstanding and that in November two owners are accepting league trophies saying how wonderful the players are.
Everyone here and everyone in those negotiations is better off if baseball is played.
I’m an optimist and I want to see magic Johnson hand Clayton kershaw a championship trophy.
-
Overall the optics are not good which is further impacted by the NHL and NBA announcing their return to play. We can debate all day which side is right and which is wrong but it's the optics of the whole thing that will have the bigger affects.
At this point I would put it at about a 5% chance we see MLB baseball this year.
-
@the_dragon1912 said in Current discussion between MLB and MLBPA:
Say you normally make 24 dollars an hour. You are doing half the work, so its reasonable you would get 12 dollars an hour right? Your employer wants to give you 6 dollars an hour. Thats the perspective of the players. I know it seems ridiculous to us common folk but the owners are purposely screwing over the players to make a profit instead of cutting their losses
This is not an accurate representation of the salary/pay structure. You need to hear me out....
Players are not paid hourly they are paid a salary every week/15 days.
So if a player makes $20m for a full season and only plays half the games, he is not taking a pay cut for playing an 82 game schedule. He is still being compensated for the work done.Now to the owners. I believe a pro-rated pay structure is fair.
The owners agreed to a pro-rated structure thinking that there would be fans attending the games. Now that seems improbable. So then the owners said lets share all the money 50-50.Here is my problem....What constitutes "all the money"??? That is the main issue for the players and thus the union, forget the pay cut or wage structure, that is for PR purposes only.
Is all the money National and Local TV money? And all fans know the TV rights for the Yankees dwarfs the local rights for the Marlins or the Rays. Usually teams keep all the local cash and share the National deals (ESPN, FS1, Streaming) will the Yankees be willing to give up their local share? I dobut it.
The local money is what seperates big payroll clubs from small payroll clubs.
Then how do we handle the issue of money from the YES network?
When the stadiums open up are we going to count each team's earnings from parking and souveniers?
The owners have never opened up the books and the players do not trust the owners numbers.
A competent accountant can make earnings disappear into the nether in a carefully crafted financial statement.The owners are angling for a PR battle and I am of the belief that they know they were headed for a work stoppage at the end of the current CBA, so they are figuring that since this year is financially lost let's go to war with the union now rather than risk another season being lost.
-
@VEGAS__T said in Current discussion between MLB and MLBPA:
@D_e_m_I_s_E said in Current discussion between MLB and MLBPA:
@VEGAS__T said in Current discussion between MLB and MLBPA:
I have a feeling you don’t know the details of the proposal the owners gave the players. It was purposely disrespectful and they low balled the hell out of the players. Check the facts before you start blaming the players. It’s the owners who need a dose of reality, not the players!
Owners profits are going to down big time with no fans. So players shouldn't sacrifice but owners should. Sorry but most people are not going to side with players that won't play for 3 months making 5 million dollars. Good luck selling that to society. Easy for people like Scherzer who have millions in the bank. This is going to fall on the players.
So because fans aren’t going to be there the players should have to take a pay cut for that? Ok and when it’s sold out every night do the owners give the players some of the extra money?
No because that’s the risk you take on as an owner. You don’t ask your employees to pay the extra costs around the shop because customers aren’t showing up.
You do realize that owners OWN the company right? You can say what you want but the majority of people will blame the players. If I was an owner, I would tell the players association to pi$$ off. Who do you think is going to get hurt more? Billionaire owners who more than likely have other incomes or athletes. That is a very easy one.
-
@Hikes83 said in Current discussion between MLB and MLBPA:
@VEGAS__T said in Current discussion between MLB and MLBPA:
@D_e_m_I_s_E said in Current discussion between MLB and MLBPA:
@VEGAS__T said in Current discussion between MLB and MLBPA:
I have a feeling you don’t know the details of the proposal the owners gave the players. It was purposely disrespectful and they low balled the hell out of the players. Check the facts before you start blaming the players. It’s the owners who need a dose of reality, not the players!
Owners profits are going to down big time with no fans. So players shouldn't sacrifice but owners should. Sorry but most people are not going to side with players that won't play for 3 months making 5 million dollars. Good luck selling that to society. Easy for people like Scherzer who have millions in the bank. This is going to fall on the players.
So because fans aren’t going to be there the players should have to take a pay cut for that? Ok and when it’s sold out every night do the owners give the players some of the extra money?
No because that’s the risk you take on as an owner. You don’t ask your employees to pay the extra costs around the shop because customers aren’t showing up.
It’s not because they aren’t showing up!!! People are forced by the government to not show up!!! These are unforeseen circumstances which you can’t plan for.
You think owners don’t know the numbers??? They pay their players knowing the revenues they bring in through various ways including but not limited to TV deals, fans, concessions.
You think these owners could plan to have their multimillion employees work but not have much of a revenue in return?? That’s just plain bad business
Most people forget or don’t realize baseball players have to put in a good amount of service time before they are even allowed to earn these big time contracts. Now the owners want those players who have only a limited amount of years they can play to take a massive pay cut?
There are risks and benefits to owning a team. The benefits are you get to keep and put ALL the profits in your pocket and not reinvest in your team, which most owners do (looking at you Marlins). Now these same owners wanna cry that they don’t have the money to pay the players, bs. Plus most owners have other sources of income whereas the players have only this game to make money.
-
We are the idiots...we beg for sports and all other forms of entertainment to come back like we need them.
All of these things are just in business to drain our wallets. Nobody in these industries need to make the money that they are making.
If you think about it...owners are willing to pay stupid money to these guys even without fans in the stands. I know there are other revenue streams, but this current proposal by the owners undoubtedly means they are still profiting from this year with their proposal even if not one ticket was bought.
Society could boycott the entertainment industry as it comes back to send a message that we are not willing to spend money on ridiculous ticket and food prices to go to a ball game or a concert etc. We are living this way now and we have come to adapt.
Unfortunately, most of us will welcome entertainment back with open arms and mindlessly throw our money at them and continue making them filthy rich.
