Hitting is not fun
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@TripleH-4481_PSN said in Hitting is not fun:
Make rookie play like rookie plain and simple. Rookie mode in most other games has this figured out but in the show rookie is just slower pitch speeds and bigger PCIs.
And the bigger PCIs don't even seem to matter to the people that would rather just use timing or directional (and I would wager this is not remotely a small amount).
And the absolute nonsense of 100% of pitches with good timing on the edge of green being foul balls just prolongs at bats. These dont need to line drives, they should be soft hit balls, but soft hit balls in play
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Hot take: I think we are the problem, not the hitting. Baseball is a world where you're awesome if you succeed 30% of the time in hitting. A good portion of that 30% is a combination of ground balls up the middle, bleeders, and bloops. Obviously we all know "this isn't real baseball", but it's trying to be as close as possible. Therefore, your batters SHOULDN'T be hitting .400+. That isn't realistic, but you're used to it. People in the highest tier of WS playing on legend, are still hitting anywhere between .250-.450 with ERAs between 2.5-6.5. This seems par for the course.
I get it; the reason you're playing on rookie is to sit back, relax, and mash - no judgement there. But you have to see this from the developers' perspective too, with the goal to achieve more realistic results.
To contradict myself (even though I am someone who would rather play the CPU on All-Star than Rookie, and strongly prefer online to offline), I do find it unfair that they added a difficulty to accommodate the most skilled players (GOAT) while simultaneously apparently raising the difficulty of the lowest tier. While it doesn't affect me, you shouldn't accommodate one extremely select tier and not the other.
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Agree on they shouldn’t have raised the ceiling and the floor. If anything raise the ceiling but drop the floor to make the game appealing to everyone. Especially if you are trying to attract new or younger players that is simply not the way to go.
As for realistic, DD is not realistic. It should play mostly like arcade. Juiced up players along side Babe Ruth is all I need to say. It’s fantasy baseball and should play that way. If players want a simulation then they should play franchise on the hardest difficulty and enjoy hitting .200 with role players, just like real baseball.
Whenever anyone tries to make the argument DD is trying to be realistic that’s simply not possible. Trying to do so only ruins the game for a majority of the player base that doesn’t want to take this game super seriously.
Make the Show fun again. Let the kids play and the sweats do their thing. Both can happen simultaneously.
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@TripleH-4481_PSN
Yea, but you're putting your own spin on what "realistic" means. I'm specifically talking about results, not the game itself. Even "juiced up players along side Babe Ruth" are going to succeed roughly 30% of the time (ok, maybe 35%). -
Please continue to “knock the ball outta the park” in this thread. I can’t upvote your posts enough. I am
percent with you here. -
Okay, here's a real question because I don't know (I tried playing a vs. CPU game on Rookie, but, obviously, small sample, but trying to get a taste of what people are talking about): are the pitchers on Rookie really "dotting" or are they just really bad at throwing strikes?
The feeling I got from my stupidly small sample was not that they pitched too well, but that they didn't throw strikes because they were wild. Like the CPU on Rookie misses its release point often... I chased, because it was annoying to sit and wait, and I got weak contact because I was swinging at trash. Again, not saying that this is the case, and this is probably a second stupid question, but do the people who play offline and want an easier experience mess with the sliders?
You can ratchet up the "CPU strike frequency," which should concentrate pitches closer to the middle of the plate while keeping the slower speeds, and you can increase the "human power," or whatever that slider is called... is that being done and it's still too difficult?
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Other titles (FIFA, Madden,NHL) get “rookie mode” right. I’ve played those games. Eventually, you score so many goals, TDs, etc. that you WANT to try a higher difficulty.
That is NOT the case with The Show. In fact, for me, it’s the opposite. I think, “why would I want to go to Allstar/Legend (etc.) when I play Conquest games with my 87 team against the White Sox 5th starter and win 1-0? Or give up after 20+ attempts at a Moment on Veteran? “
IMO, it backwards thinking by SDS.
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@TripleH-4481_PSN said in Hitting is not fun:
As for realistic, DD is not realistic. It should play mostly like arcade. Juiced up players along side Babe Ruth is all I need to say. It’s fantasy baseball and should play that way. If players want a simulation then they should play franchise on the hardest difficulty and enjoy hitting .200 with role players, just like real baseball.
Whenever anyone tries to make the argument DD is trying to be realistic that’s simply not possible. Trying to do so only ruins the game for a majority of the player base that doesn’t want to take this game super seriously.
Make the Show fun again. Let the kids play and the sweats do their thing. Both can happen simultaneously.
Sorry... but this is supposed to play more like a baseball sim; it was presented as such before launch and new steps toward realism were touted, and it should aim to play like one (for once), at least as you get out of the lower difficulties. Not saying that low difficulties should inspire so much struggle (taking peoples' word for it), but higher difficulties should be hard. If not hitting .400 with HRs every 5 at bats "is not fun," then maybe you just don't think baseball is fun unless you change it into something that it is not.
And it isn't "fantasy baseball." That's already a thing, and it means something else (something that's rooted in real-world statistics and results, by the way).
DD absolutely should not "play mostly like arcade." "Juiced up players along side Babe Ruth" happen to be hitting off of Randy Johnson, Nolan Ryan, Roger Clemens, and the best to ever throw the ball. Any fan of the game knows that good pitching can nullify good hitting, so this line of reasoning doesn't hold water for me. Of course it isn't possible for the game to be 100% realistic, but that doesn't mean people who enjoy playing a game that yields real baseball results where pitching and defense matter should hang their heads and accept a devolution into MLB Jam because people want more cowbell.
"Make the Show fun again"... fitting how this phraseology mimics one that seems to accomplish the opposite of what it ostensibly proposes.
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@The_Joneser_PSN said in Hitting is not fun:
Sorry... but this is supposed to play more like a baseball sim; it was presented as such before launch and new steps toward realism were touted, and it should aim to play like one (for once), at least as you get out of the lower difficulties. Not saying that low difficulties should inspire so much struggle (taking peoples' word for it), but higher difficulties should be hard. If not hitting .400 with HRs every 5 at bats "is not fun," then maybe you just don't think baseball is fun unless you change it into something that it is not.
But this thread IS about the lower difficulties, not the higher difficulties. So while your point is valid, it is also irrelevant.
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@The_Joneser_PSN said in Hitting is not fun:
Again, not saying that this is the case, and this is probably a second stupid question, but do the people who play offline and want an easier experience mess with the sliders?
You can ratchet up the "CPU strike frequency," which should concentrate pitches closer to the middle of the plate while keeping the slower speeds, and you can increase the "human power," or whatever that slider is called... is that being done and it's still too difficult?
Changing sliders has no effect in Diamond Dynasty.
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For me, the issue is that the various modes do not play the same at equivalent levels. I’ll choose Veteran for the sake of this post. Veteran mode vs CPU plays different than veteran mode in Conquest plays different than Veteran in Moments. They should all play the same.
And “whatever” the baseline mode is for DD (allstar??), anything below that should be easier. Anything above that should be harder. And not just pitch speeds.
In rookie mode, the CPU should frankly be as “inept” as possible. Fat pitches down the middle, no gold glove plays in the field. Fielding errors. Baserunning blunders. And that doesn’t happen at all right now.
If they want to make Rookie mode “more difficult”, put higher rated players in the CPU lineup. Not “whatever” they do now ( which I suspect involves slider manipulation).
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@Orcin_MLBTS, the thread is called "Hitting is not fun," not "Rookie and Veteran are not fun." The OP speaks more to the balance between realism and an easier, arcade style... it specifically mentions All Star, and the second post refers to Rookie/Veteran/All-Star, the latter being the mode that most play in DD.
Your posts are solely about Rookie and Veteran. Many others are more generalized.
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To me, the biggest issue about offense is this: Rookie hitting in Play vs. CPU is not the same as rookie hitting in Conquest (harder) and very much not the same as rookie hitting in Mini Seasons (brutal).
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As with most things about this game SDS has a tricky task to try and make the game fun for the largest number of people. Of course those people have various ideas of what fun is (realism vs arcade), and differing skill levels, and different amounts of free time to devote to the game.
I am definitely not as into the game this year as I have been in previous years but I am not 100% sure of the cause. I think it is a variety of things. I do think pitchers are able to live on the edges of the strike zone way to often and my hit results are not great (skill issue or power creep issue?). Some of the stat grinds for the weekly programs seem high (and yes I know that you can skip a few of those) and will take lesser skilled players a lot of time.
They definitely heard complaints the last few years about sets and seasons and corrected that course but I think they have over corrected and moved the target too far in favor of skilled players with lots of time to play.
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@Dolenz_PSN said in [Hitting is not fun]
They definitely heard complaints the last few years about sets and seasons and corrected that course but I think they have over corrected and moved the target too far in favor of skilled players with lots of time to play.
IMO, it’s only a matter of time before SDS offers us a way to buy progress along the main XP program path for those of us less skilled and less time to play. It’s what Madden UT does and it’s extremely enticing to “catch up”.
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@capardo_MLBTS said in Hitting is not fun:
Other titles (FIFA, Madden,NHL) get “rookie mode” right. I’ve played those games. Eventually, you score so many goals, TDs, etc. that you WANT to try a higher difficulty
I hear what you're saying, but someone else pretty much hit that nail on the head; people have abused that in the past and ruined it for everyone else.
The developers do not seem to want players capable of success at higher levels switching down to Rookie and Veteran to pad their stats and move through programs at preternatural speed, gobbling up the rewards too quickly, or selling them at inflated prices to those who don't have the time or inclination to do that. But, people being people, they try to game the system and that either means that the devs throw the desired reward-path pace out the window, or make it so Rookie and Veteran aren't abused as the easy path to rewards.
While I wouldn't say it's backwards thinking, they could, perhaps, severely tamp down the level of XP and PXP you earn from those levels, instead, and turn it into batting practice again. It would definitely slow progress for those who can't find success on AS, but that's probably the only way they can truly be "easy" again.
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You're not kidding. Ranked could be so much fun, but here again I just played a full game with a lineup full of contact hitters where I got 3 hits and so did my opponent and I won 2-1, all scoring done on homeruns. This with both of us attacking the strike zone. Lazy fly ball after lazy fly ball and an occasional dribbler and perfect/perfect right at somebody. That's all online is right now. It is not fun.
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Just played a game against the Cubs in conquest on rookie, Ryan Braiser 18 pitches, 12 of them for balls (most were not even close to the plate), this is ridiculous.
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@The_Joneser_PSN said in Hitting is not fun:
@Orcin_MLBTS, the thread is called "Hitting is not fun," not "Rookie and Veteran are not fun." The OP speaks more to the balance between realism and an easier, arcade style... it specifically mentions All Star, and the second post refers to Rookie/Veteran/All-Star, the latter being the mode that most play in DD.
Your posts are solely about Rookie and Veteran. Many others are more generalized.
My post was about difficulty and how hitting is suffering making it harder to want to play. Yes I mentioned all-star. I also mentioned legend and rookie. As someone that finds playing all-star more and more difficult--which I used to be able to play without any problems--Making every thing more difficult takes the fun out of the game that put it on for a nice relaxing time after a long day. When new people, like triple H's son, have too hard of a time learning the game, they leave and alienate a large part of their consumers. Namely new players and lower tier players.
No my post isn't specifically about rookie to goat difficulty, but that encompasses a part of the problem.
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@The_Joneser_PSN said in Hitting is not fun:
@capardo_MLBTS said in Hitting is not fun:
Other titles (FIFA, Madden,NHL) get “rookie mode” right. I’ve played those games. Eventually, you score so many goals, TDs, etc. that you WANT to try a higher difficulty
I hear what you're saying, but someone else pretty much hit that nail on the head; people have abused that in the past and ruined it for everyone else.
The developers do not seem to want players capable of success at higher levels switching down to Rookie and Veteran to pad their stats and move through programs at preternatural speed, gobbling up the rewards too quickly, or selling them at inflated prices to those who don't have the time or inclination to do that. But, people being people, they try to game the system and that either means that the devs throw the desired reward-path pace out the window, or make it so Rookie and Veteran aren't abused as the easy path to rewards.
While I wouldn't say it's backwards thinking, they could, perhaps, severely tamp down the level of XP and PXP you earn from those levels, instead, and turn it into batting practice again. It would definitely slow progress for those who can't find success on AS, but that's probably the only way they can truly be "easy" again.
I understand the "gobbling up the rewards too quickly" argument, but the easy way to proceed is "fine." Once you're done, you're done. They can, and will, wait until next week or play online like they probably want to do anyway. Isn't ranked a form of dynamic difficulty? Make that harder, and while you're at it make the other online modes dynamic as well. That might even help with bad matchmaking. Heck, I might even play ranked if the dynamic started with rookie.
They already tamp down the XP for lower difficulties and PXP is %50 greater in online play. I feel those are fine. What I don't get, is who cares how quickly someone finishes a program? Make a finite amount of rewards capable of being earned. For the most part, they already do.
Good conversation, thank you.
