Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever"
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@smalltownkid1990 said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
Not to ruffle anybody’s feathers, but Barry Bonds clearly had the best 4 season stretch of ALL time. And that was also in the modern era…
Taking an already HoF level player and adding an unholy amount of steroids into the mix will do that.
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@kdclemson_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
If it was 180 WAR to 175 maybe you’d have some credibly but it’s literally a huge gap and then when anybody tries to explain to you how your argument has holes and can be proven to be a poor argument you just yell that it’s your opinion and can’t possibly be wrong
Yeah it is a decent sized gap and Cobb played a lot more games and had a lot more plate appearances.
WAR aside, it is a lot closer of a debate.
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@jellyroll198_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@writetoshawn_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@jellyroll198_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@writetoshawn_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@quinnymcquinn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@bob_loblaw1984 said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@kdclemson_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
Articles are being posted every day about Ohtani having the "Greatest Season Ever". Ohtani is about to hit the impressive 9 WAR in a season club, this is an elite club that certainly gives credit to this argument, right.
Ohtani's season is on track to be 130th all-time in WAR. For my non-sabermetrics guys, that basically means it isn't the greatest season ever, it isn't even close.
But who has the greatest season ever? Babe Ruth in 1923, the man who Ohtani is often compared to, with a 14.2 WAR season, more WAR than Ohtani has amassed in his MLB career.
How about the 2nd greatest season ever? That goes to a man by the name of Babe Ruth, who in 1921 posted a 12.9 WAR season.
How about the 3rd greatest season ever? That title goes to little-known former superstar by the name of George, George Herman, or as you may know him... Babe Ruth, with 12.6 WAR in 1927.
As a matter of fact, 5 of the 10 greatest seasons ever, and 6 of the top 11, belong to Babe Ruth.
So Shohei Ohtani, "The Next Babe Ruth" is on pace to have the 130th best season ever, whereas Ruth has half of the top 10 best seasons ever, including the top 3.
Ruth had 16 years where he played at least 100 games. This Ohtani season people are calling maybe the best in MLB history, would only be Ruth's 11th best season, and a down year for him.
Let's end with some stats simpler:
Ohtani 2021 OPS: .986
Ruth career OPS: 1.164
Ruth 1919-1924 OPS: 1.262Ohtani 2021 ERA: 3.31
Babe Ruth career ERA: 2.28Let's stop comparing a .260 hitter to a dude who hit over .370 for half a dozen seasons, to a dude who hit more home runs than the entire American League in seasons, and to a dude who beats him in almost any stat. And before the argument that Ruth played in an easier time: (1) Ruth didn't chose his era and if it was so much easier, why was he vastly better than ever other player?
I’d like to see Shohei’s numbers against 1920s pitchers and hitters…
White only? Check.
Low velo? Check.
Strength training? Nah.
Hot dogs and beer? Of course.You can’t compare the hot dogs and beer today to the hot dogs and beer back then.
Today we have hot dogs with out nitrates and you have a wider selection and transparency of what goes into that Weiner. You can get an all beef dog, veggie dog, now of days at most stadiums.
Also beer has healthier options or lower cal options today.
But did they have India Pale Ale back
Yes they did! IPAs were popular by the early 1800s in England and certainly found fans in America by the 20th Century. Though prohibition would have slowed it’s growth in the States.
Thanks for that history!
Sculpin has the best IPA of all-time. My stats say so - it’s indisputable.Sculpin is definitely HOF beer, but more of a contact hitter with that high average (ABV). I prefer a bit more pop/hops so I way IBU more heavily like Green from Treehouse Brewery. Just a preference but I’m 100% correct and nobody else can be right!
The stats on that beer can’t be disputed. Great IBU, fantastic flavor, great mix of bitter and haze. One could argue though that Green isn’t even the best beer on it’s own team.
I’m a huge fan of treehouse brewing. Can find it here in Buffalo but my go to, due to accessibility is arrogant [censored] by stone brewing
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@dbarmonstar_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@smalltownkid1990 said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
Not to ruffle anybody’s feathers, but Barry Bonds clearly had the best 4 season stretch of ALL time. And that was also in the modern era…
Be Careful what you say if the player is not a yankee
I know this is tongue in cheek but this type of stuff isn't fair. I hate the Yankees and I'll even vouch for most of their all time greats in these kinds of debates. Aside from Jeter. Hella overrated...haha.
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@dewrock_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@kdclemson_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
If it was 180 WAR to 175 maybe you’d have some credibly but it’s literally a huge gap and then when anybody tries to explain to you how your argument has holes and can be proven to be a poor argument you just yell that it’s your opinion and can’t possibly be wrong
Yeah it is a decent sized gap and Cobb played a lot more games and had a lot more plate appearances.
WAR aside, it is a lot closer of a debate.
But realistically, anybody who understands modern metrics should have Babe ahead
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@kdclemson_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@dewrock_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@kdclemson_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
If it was 180 WAR to 175 maybe you’d have some credibly but it’s literally a huge gap and then when anybody tries to explain to you how your argument has holes and can be proven to be a poor argument you just yell that it’s your opinion and can’t possibly be wrong
Yeah it is a decent sized gap and Cobb played a lot more games and had a lot more plate appearances.
WAR aside, it is a lot closer of a debate.
But realistically, anybody who understands modern metrics should have Babe ahead
Right. I'm just saying there's a lot more room for debate.
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@dbarmonstar_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@smalltownkid1990 said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
Not to ruffle anybody’s feathers, but Barry Bonds clearly had the best 4 season stretch of ALL time. And that was also in the modern era…
Be Careful what you say if the player is not a yankee
I'm a Brewers fan lol.
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@dewrock_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@kdclemson_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
If it was 180 WAR to 175 maybe you’d have some credibly but it’s literally a huge gap and then when anybody tries to explain to you how your argument has holes and can be proven to be a poor argument you just yell that it’s your opinion and can’t possibly be wrong
Yeah it is a decent sized gap and Cobb played a lot more games and had a lot more plate appearances.
WAR aside, it is a lot closer of a debate.
That is what makes his avg and hits and how many times he struck out more impressive with that many PA and GP he hit over .300 23 straight years, had over 200 hits 8 season over .400 avg 3 times.
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@jellyroll198_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@writetoshawn_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@jellyroll198_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@writetoshawn_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@quinnymcquinn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@bob_loblaw1984 said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@kdclemson_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
Articles are being posted every day about Ohtani having the "Greatest Season Ever". Ohtani is about to hit the impressive 9 WAR in a season club, this is an elite club that certainly gives credit to this argument, right.
Ohtani's season is on track to be 130th all-time in WAR. For my non-sabermetrics guys, that basically means it isn't the greatest season ever, it isn't even close.
But who has the greatest season ever? Babe Ruth in 1923, the man who Ohtani is often compared to, with a 14.2 WAR season, more WAR than Ohtani has amassed in his MLB career.
How about the 2nd greatest season ever? That goes to a man by the name of Babe Ruth, who in 1921 posted a 12.9 WAR season.
How about the 3rd greatest season ever? That title goes to little-known former superstar by the name of George, George Herman, or as you may know him... Babe Ruth, with 12.6 WAR in 1927.
As a matter of fact, 5 of the 10 greatest seasons ever, and 6 of the top 11, belong to Babe Ruth.
So Shohei Ohtani, "The Next Babe Ruth" is on pace to have the 130th best season ever, whereas Ruth has half of the top 10 best seasons ever, including the top 3.
Ruth had 16 years where he played at least 100 games. This Ohtani season people are calling maybe the best in MLB history, would only be Ruth's 11th best season, and a down year for him.
Let's end with some stats simpler:
Ohtani 2021 OPS: .986
Ruth career OPS: 1.164
Ruth 1919-1924 OPS: 1.262Ohtani 2021 ERA: 3.31
Babe Ruth career ERA: 2.28Let's stop comparing a .260 hitter to a dude who hit over .370 for half a dozen seasons, to a dude who hit more home runs than the entire American League in seasons, and to a dude who beats him in almost any stat. And before the argument that Ruth played in an easier time: (1) Ruth didn't chose his era and if it was so much easier, why was he vastly better than ever other player?
I’d like to see Shohei’s numbers against 1920s pitchers and hitters…
White only? Check.
Low velo? Check.
Strength training? Nah.
Hot dogs and beer? Of course.You can’t compare the hot dogs and beer today to the hot dogs and beer back then.
Today we have hot dogs with out nitrates and you have a wider selection and transparency of what goes into that Weiner. You can get an all beef dog, veggie dog, now of days at most stadiums.
Also beer has healthier options or lower cal options today.
But did they have India Pale Ale back
Yes they did! IPAs were popular by the early 1800s in England and certainly found fans in America by the 20th Century. Though prohibition would have slowed it’s growth in the States.
Thanks for that history!
Sculpin has the best IPA of all-time. My stats say so - it’s indisputable.Sculpin is definitely HOF beer, but more of a contact hitter with that high average (ABV). I prefer a bit more pop/hops so I way IBU more heavily like Green from Treehouse Brewery. Just a preference but I’m 100% correct and nobody else can be right!
@QuinnyMcQuinnYou guys clearly are wrong. Just look at the stats posted on Beer Advocate. Has Treehouse even ever hit a triple IPA before? Meanwhile Sculpin had to contend with the vastly overrated Lagunitas.
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@poksey_mlbts said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@dbarmonstar_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@smalltownkid1990 said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
Not to ruffle anybody’s feathers, but Barry Bonds clearly had the best 4 season stretch of ALL time. And that was also in the modern era…
Be Careful what you say if the player is not a yankee
I'm a Brewers fan lol.
For the record that was not for you
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@dewrock_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@dbarmonstar_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@smalltownkid1990 said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
Not to ruffle anybody’s feathers, but Barry Bonds clearly had the best 4 season stretch of ALL time. And that was also in the modern era…
Be Careful what you say if the player is not a yankee
I know this is tongue in cheek but this type of stuff isn't fair. I hate the Yankees and I'll even vouch for most of their all time greats in these kinds of debates. Aside from Jeter. Hella overrated...haha.
Every player that he uses in an argument is or has been a yankee. It is a fair statement
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@dbarmonstar_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@dewrock_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@kdclemson_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
If it was 180 WAR to 175 maybe you’d have some credibly but it’s literally a huge gap and then when anybody tries to explain to you how your argument has holes and can be proven to be a poor argument you just yell that it’s your opinion and can’t possibly be wrong
Yeah it is a decent sized gap and Cobb played a lot more games and had a lot more plate appearances.
WAR aside, it is a lot closer of a debate.
That is what makes his avg and hits and how many times he struck out more impressive with that many PA and GP he hit over .300 23 straight years, had over 200 hits 8 season over .400 avg 3 times.
I don't disagree. Just saying that with so many more games played and plate appearances, he's obviously going to have more hits than Ruth. Ruth also seemed to get the Bonds treatment (before there was a Bonds treatment) and got a lot more walks than Cobb.
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@jogger171717_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@smalltownkid1990 said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
Not to ruffle anybody’s feathers, but Barry Bonds clearly had the best 4 season stretch of ALL time. And that was also in the modern era…
Taking an already HoF level player and adding an unholy amount of steroids into the mix will do that.
Which is really more advantageous, though?
Taking steroids in an era that half the players already were? Or playing against only white players where the average fastball velocity was in the low 80s? -
@dewrock_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@dbarmonstar_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@dewrock_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@kdclemson_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
If it was 180 WAR to 175 maybe you’d have some credibly but it’s literally a huge gap and then when anybody tries to explain to you how your argument has holes and can be proven to be a poor argument you just yell that it’s your opinion and can’t possibly be wrong
Yeah it is a decent sized gap and Cobb played a lot more games and had a lot more plate appearances.
WAR aside, it is a lot closer of a debate.
That is what makes his avg and hits and how many times he struck out more impressive with that many PA and GP he hit over .300 23 straight years, had over 200 hits 8 season over .400 avg 3 times.
I don't disagree. Just saying that with so many more games played and plate appearances, he's obviously going to have more hits than Ruth. Ruth also seemed to get the Bonds treatment (before there was a Bonds treatment) and got a lot more walks than Cobb.
Be careful, if you defend Ruth enough you might accidentally be labeled a Yankees homer
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@jogger171717_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@smalltownkid1990 said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
Not to ruffle anybody’s feathers, but Barry Bonds clearly had the best 4 season stretch of ALL time. And that was also in the modern era…
Taking an already HoF level player and adding an unholy amount of steroids into the mix will do that.
It sucks that baseball Bud Selick ignored it for a long time and did nothing then when it got to the media baseball turned a blind eye as if it was all on the players, Selig did nothing to control or back the players. Baseball did nothing all because it was bringing in money and bringing fans back after the strike in 94. Baseball needed those years of Bonds, McGwire and Sosa, with it out how well would have baseball recovered if it was not for those years,
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@dbarmonstar_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@dewrock_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@kdclemson_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
If it was 180 WAR to 175 maybe you’d have some credibly but it’s literally a huge gap and then when anybody tries to explain to you how your argument has holes and can be proven to be a poor argument you just yell that it’s your opinion and can’t possibly be wrong
Yeah it is a decent sized gap and Cobb played a lot more games and had a lot more plate appearances.
WAR aside, it is a lot closer of a debate.
That is what makes his avg and hits and how many times he struck out more impressive with that many PA and GP he hit over .300 23 straight years, had over 200 hits 8 season over .400 avg 3 times.
Even with all of that, we have wRC+ to tell us that Ruth just mashing HR after HR was overall more productive.
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@jogger171717_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@dbarmonstar_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@dewrock_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@kdclemson_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
If it was 180 WAR to 175 maybe you’d have some credibly but it’s literally a huge gap and then when anybody tries to explain to you how your argument has holes and can be proven to be a poor argument you just yell that it’s your opinion and can’t possibly be wrong
Yeah it is a decent sized gap and Cobb played a lot more games and had a lot more plate appearances.
WAR aside, it is a lot closer of a debate.
That is what makes his avg and hits and how many times he struck out more impressive with that many PA and GP he hit over .300 23 straight years, had over 200 hits 8 season over .400 avg 3 times.
Even with all of that, we have wRC+ to tell us that Ruth just mashing HR after HR was overall more productive.
It’s not worth it, dude likes opinions over stats, not a huge numbers guy.
Even though Ruth has a 197 wRC+ to Cobbs 165 wRC+
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@dbarmonstar_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@jogger171717_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@smalltownkid1990 said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
Not to ruffle anybody’s feathers, but Barry Bonds clearly had the best 4 season stretch of ALL time. And that was also in the modern era…
Taking an already HoF level player and adding an unholy amount of steroids into the mix will do that.
It sucks that baseball Bud Selick ignored it for a long time and did nothing then when it got to the media baseball turned a blind eye as if it was all on the players, Selig did nothing to control or back the players. Baseball did nothing all because it was bringing in money and bringing fans back after the strike in 94. Baseball needed those years of Bonds, McGwire and Sosa, with it out how well would have baseball recovered if it was not for those years,
This, I agree with you 100%
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@jogger171717_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@dbarmonstar_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@dewrock_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@kdclemson_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
If it was 180 WAR to 175 maybe you’d have some credibly but it’s literally a huge gap and then when anybody tries to explain to you how your argument has holes and can be proven to be a poor argument you just yell that it’s your opinion and can’t possibly be wrong
Yeah it is a decent sized gap and Cobb played a lot more games and had a lot more plate appearances.
WAR aside, it is a lot closer of a debate.
That is what makes his avg and hits and how many times he struck out more impressive with that many PA and GP he hit over .300 23 straight years, had over 200 hits 8 season over .400 avg 3 times.
Even with all of that, we have wRC+ to tell us that Ruth just mashing HR after HR was overall more productive.
I am not going to get into all of that, there is no point on which you do not understand what it means to be the best ALL AROUND player. Cobb was the best hitter ever, Ruth was one of the Best power Hitters of all time the best is debatable, COBB is the Best ALL AROUND player ever IMO.
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@kdclemson_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@jogger171717_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@dbarmonstar_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@dewrock_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
@kdclemson_psn said in Ohtani's "Greatest Season Ever":
If it was 180 WAR to 175 maybe you’d have some credibly but it’s literally a huge gap and then when anybody tries to explain to you how your argument has holes and can be proven to be a poor argument you just yell that it’s your opinion and can’t possibly be wrong
Yeah it is a decent sized gap and Cobb played a lot more games and had a lot more plate appearances.
WAR aside, it is a lot closer of a debate.
That is what makes his avg and hits and how many times he struck out more impressive with that many PA and GP he hit over .300 23 straight years, had over 200 hits 8 season over .400 avg 3 times.
Even with all of that, we have wRC+ to tell us that Ruth just mashing HR after HR was overall more productive.
It’s not worth it, dude likes opinions over stats, not a huge numbers guy.
Even though Ruth has a 197 wRC+ to Cobbs 165 wRC+
️Even if you remove all of Cobb’s seasons with less than 160 wRC+, it still only puts him at 179 wRC+.
That’s still 18 points lower than Ruth’s entire career, including his “down” years.
