96 Hoffman

SDS

Why is he a 96? He's just as good as MO and maybe the best closer ever.

SDS

No way he's as good as MO. He deserves a 99 tho, so I agree with you there.

SDS

Def should be a 99. Not sure. Only reasoning I can think of is similar to 95 Glavine in that they were fairly early releases? Also one of the few closers who deserved a CY award. I believe he finished 2nd in his 53/54 SV opp season. And if memory serves, he would've won it had a couple of voters not left him off their ballot entirely.

SDS

Hes among the players that they screwed their overalls along with guys like Eckersley and Whitey Ford.

SDS

I will point at career H/9, K/9, and BB/9 as to why Hoffman, Glavine, and Eckersley are not 99s. Those are the 3 attributes that drive overall( for sig series, prime and awards before the future stars and finest hate club jumps on this). Glavine and Hoffman's career K/9 isn't that good, even in their era. As for Eck, SDS has said in the past it's harder for a reliever to be a 99, and even then the best reason that proves Eck should be a 99(Sig Kenley) has better career H/9 and K/9. There are many problems with this game, but attributes and overalls on signature series cards are actually extremely accurate

SDS

Rivera 7.0 H/9* 2.0 BB/9* 8.2 K/9*
Hoffman 7.0 H/9* 2.5 BB/9* 9.4 K/9*

Gossage 7.4 H/9* 3.6 BB/9* 7.5 K/9*

SDS

@formallyforearms said in 96 Hoffman:

Rivera 7.0 H/9* 2.0 BB/9* 8.2 K/9*
Hoffman 7.0 H/9* 2.5 BB/9* 9.4 K/9*

Gossage 7.4 H/9* 3.6 BB/9* 7.5 K/9*

So Goose is the one that should be a 96?

SDS

So Goose is the one that should be a 96?

Hard to compare across eras. Mo and Hoffman could ride in and get three outs. Goose had to go 2, 3, 4 innings, sometimes facing the same batter multiple times. Being that good in a long outing is pretty special.

SDS

@formallyforearms said in 96 Hoffman:

Rivera 7.0 H/9* 2.0 BB/9* 8.2 K/9*
Hoffman 7.0 H/9* 2.5 BB/9* 9.4 K/9*

Gossage 7.4 H/9* 3.6 BB/9* 7.5 K/9*

I stand corrected on Hoffman then. I guess I never realized he struck that many batters out. I guess I don't know why Hoffman isn't a 99. My point on Glavine and Eck stand though. Eck would have been a 99 if they gave him an awards card. His career was so long he gets screwed on the career averages

SDS

@the_dragon1912 said in 96 Hoffman:

@formallyforearms said in 96 Hoffman:

Rivera 7.0 H/9* 2.0 BB/9* 8.2 K/9*
Hoffman 7.0 H/9* 2.5 BB/9* 9.4 K/9*
Gossage 7.4 H/9* 3.6 BB/9* 7.5 K/9*

I stand corrected on Hoffman then. I guess I never realized he struck that many batters out. I guess I don't know why Hoffman isn't a 99. My point on Glavine and Eck stand though. Eck would have been a 99 if they gave him an awards card. His career was so long he gets screwed on the career averages

I dont understand how they determine rating for awards either. Gagne has a 98 for his CY card.
4.0 H/9* 2.2 BB/9* 15.0 K/9*
He was absolutely dominant.
The ratings system seems arbitrary to me.

SDS

@formallyforearms said in 96 Hoffman:

@the_dragon1912 said in 96 Hoffman:

@formallyforearms said in 96 Hoffman:

Rivera 7.0 H/9* 2.0 BB/9* 8.2 K/9*
Hoffman 7.0 H/9* 2.5 BB/9* 9.4 K/9*
Gossage 7.4 H/9* 3.6 BB/9* 7.5 K/9*

I stand corrected on Hoffman then. I guess I never realized he struck that many batters out. I guess I don't know why Hoffman isn't a 99. My point on Glavine and Eck stand though. Eck would have been a 99 if they gave him an awards card. His career was so long he gets screwed on the career averages

I dont understand how they determine rating for awards either. Gagne has a 98 for his CY card.
4.0 H/9* 2.2 BB/9* 15.0 K/9*
He was absolutely dominant.
The ratings system seems arbitrary to me.

Overalls maybe are yes. The attributes themselves certainly have statistical significance behind them(except for future stars, Finest, Topps now, Monthly awards). I don't care about the overalls on the card anyway though

SDS

@the_dragon1912 said in 96 Hoffman:

@formallyforearms said in 96 Hoffman:

@the_dragon1912 said in 96 Hoffman:

@formallyforearms said in 96 Hoffman:

Rivera 7.0 H/9* 2.0 BB/9* 8.2 K/9*
Hoffman 7.0 H/9* 2.5 BB/9* 9.4 K/9*
Gossage 7.4 H/9* 3.6 BB/9* 7.5 K/9*

I stand corrected on Hoffman then. I guess I never realized he struck that many batters out. I guess I don't know why Hoffman isn't a 99. My point on Glavine and Eck stand though. Eck would have been a 99 if they gave him an awards card. His career was so long he gets screwed on the career averages

I dont understand how they determine rating for awards either. Gagne has a 98 for his CY card.
4.0 H/9* 2.2 BB/9* 15.0 K/9*
He was absolutely dominant.
The ratings system seems arbitrary to me.

Overalls maybe are yes. The attributes themselves certainly have statistical significance behind them(except for future stars, Finest, Topps now, Monthly awards). I don't care about the overalls on the card anyway though

It appears H/9 does fall in line with a statistical formula, just going by a little quick research. Some others definitely dont. K/9 and the corresponding attributes have no correlation. I'm unclear how K/9 attribute affects gameplay, so I dont know how relevant it is. I'm only bringing that up as you mentioned it being one of the main rating factors in your earlier post.

SDS

@studman7_psn said in 96 Hoffman:

So Goose is the one that should be a 96?

Hard to compare across eras. Mo and Hoffman could ride in and get three outs. Goose had to go 2, 3, 4 innings, sometimes facing the same batter multiple times. Being that good in a long outing is pretty special.

what a beast...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knhVHLtub4U

SDS

@formallyforearms said in 96 Hoffman:

Hes among the players that they screwed their overalls along with guys like Eckersley and Whitey Ford.

Same with rollie and gagne

SDS

Excellent article regarding the value of Goose. He pitched in much tougher situations than the average closer today.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/goose-egg-new-save-stat-relief-pitchers/

SDS

@themadhatter711 said in 96 Hoffman:

Excellent article regarding the value of Goose. He pitched in much tougher situations than the average closer today.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/goose-egg-new-save-stat-relief-pitchers/

I have no issues with Goose, I know his value and remember what kind of a pitcher he was. I included his numbers as a comparison above, as an attempt to validate why Hoffman got screwed with his SS card.

SDS

@drg179_psn said in 96 Hoffman:

Why is he a 96? He's just as good as MO and maybe the best closer ever.

He’s not even close to mariano Rivera. It’s one thing to be an unbelievable closer it’s a whole other thing to be an unbelievable closer in the playoffs. Mariano and Hoffman are incomparable due to the playoffs.

SDS

@formallyforearms said in 96 Hoffman:

@themadhatter711 said in 96 Hoffman:

Excellent article regarding the value of Goose. He pitched in much tougher situations than the average closer today.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/goose-egg-new-save-stat-relief-pitchers/

I have no issues with Goose, I know his value and remember what kind of a pitcher he was. I included his numbers as a comparison above, as an attempt to validate why Hoffman got screwed with his SS card.

Of course - this was just an excuse for me to share one of my favorite articles I've read in the last few years.

SDS

i do not do well w/ him at all. I think it's his circle change that always gets hit hard. i have not used him in a long time so i think that was the pitch.

SDS

@a_perfectgame said in 96 Hoffman:

@drg179_psn said in 96 Hoffman:

Why is he a 96? He's just as good as MO and maybe the best closer ever.

He’s not even close to mariano Rivera. It’s one thing to be an unbelievable closer it’s a whole other thing to be an unbelievable closer in the playoffs. Mariano and Hoffman are incomparable due to the playoffs.

Hoffman had over 600 saves with a higher K rate Padres didnt get many playoff shots not his fault.