Luis Robert
-
@BodamEscapePlan said in Luis Robert:
@DBBG1515 said in Luis Robert:
@BodamEscapePlan said in Luis Robert:
@eatyum said in Luis Robert:
And I'm not trying to sound smug or act like a "know it all," but there's a lot more that goes into these awards than just a black and white, paint by the numbers approach. They're going to consider context; as in Luis Robert was left in no man's land in the 7th spot in the lineup with no protection so he didn't see any "good" pitches, the fact that he was playing on a team in contention for a division and league pennant, and I don't think anyone could argue that the AL West was light in terms of playing competitive teams in the AL and NL West in comparison to the AL Central playing their own division and the NL Central.
Almost everyone uses Fangraphs over Bref WAR, it is by far the more accepted of the two.
And no, voters aren't going to consider the freaking batting order, and be like "Oh he hit 7th, lets give him the award." and the whole team success thing is a relic of the past, it doesn't matter that Seattle wasn't going to make the playoffs.
You're probably right about Fangraphs. I don't know, I've always like BaseballReference.
... and I guess we'll just have to see. I do think they consider some of those things. Obviously I'm not taking away from Kyle Lewis' season he had, it was great. I'm just saying if we're looking at the whole picture and not just statistics in a vacuum, I would have to think Robert should win by a large margin considering he was among the top defensive players in all of baseball and prior to an easy to see why it happened drought, Robert was putting up excellent offensive production, too.
There are droughts and then there is hitting .085 for more than 1/3 of the season.
But as we all saw in the playoffs, you get him away from that 7th spot in the lineup and actually get some protection for the young man and he's excellent. I don't know about you, but I like a little context with my numbers.
You can't use the playoffs as context because they aren't considered in ROY voting, it's already done beforehand.
-
@eatyum said in Luis Robert:
@BodamEscapePlan said in Luis Robert:
@DBBG1515 said in Luis Robert:
@BodamEscapePlan said in Luis Robert:
@eatyum said in Luis Robert:
And I'm not trying to sound smug or act like a "know it all," but there's a lot more that goes into these awards than just a black and white, paint by the numbers approach. They're going to consider context; as in Luis Robert was left in no man's land in the 7th spot in the lineup with no protection so he didn't see any "good" pitches, the fact that he was playing on a team in contention for a division and league pennant, and I don't think anyone could argue that the AL West was light in terms of playing competitive teams in the AL and NL West in comparison to the AL Central playing their own division and the NL Central.
Almost everyone uses Fangraphs over Bref WAR, it is by far the more accepted of the two.
And no, voters aren't going to consider the freaking batting order, and be like "Oh he hit 7th, lets give him the award." and the whole team success thing is a relic of the past, it doesn't matter that Seattle wasn't going to make the playoffs.
You're probably right about Fangraphs. I don't know, I've always like BaseballReference.
... and I guess we'll just have to see. I do think they consider some of those things. Obviously I'm not taking away from Kyle Lewis' season he had, it was great. I'm just saying if we're looking at the whole picture and not just statistics in a vacuum, I would have to think Robert should win by a large margin considering he was among the top defensive players in all of baseball and prior to an easy to see why it happened drought, Robert was putting up excellent offensive production, too.
There are droughts and then there is hitting .085 for more than 1/3 of the season.
But as we all saw in the playoffs, you get him away from that 7th spot in the lineup and actually get some protection for the young man and he's excellent. I don't know about you, but I like a little context with my numbers.
You can't use the playoffs as context because they aren't considered in ROY voting, it's already done beforehand.
I'm not saying we should or should not use it to determine anything, I'm telling you guys what the rest of baseball already knows.
Ultimately, all that I'm trying to say is that Luis Robert would have my vote, if I had one.
-
@BodamEscapePlan said in Luis Robert:
@eatyum said in Luis Robert:
@BodamEscapePlan said in Luis Robert:
@DBBG1515 said in Luis Robert:
@BodamEscapePlan said in Luis Robert:
@eatyum said in Luis Robert:
And I'm not trying to sound smug or act like a "know it all," but there's a lot more that goes into these awards than just a black and white, paint by the numbers approach. They're going to consider context; as in Luis Robert was left in no man's land in the 7th spot in the lineup with no protection so he didn't see any "good" pitches, the fact that he was playing on a team in contention for a division and league pennant, and I don't think anyone could argue that the AL West was light in terms of playing competitive teams in the AL and NL West in comparison to the AL Central playing their own division and the NL Central.
Almost everyone uses Fangraphs over Bref WAR, it is by far the more accepted of the two.
And no, voters aren't going to consider the freaking batting order, and be like "Oh he hit 7th, lets give him the award." and the whole team success thing is a relic of the past, it doesn't matter that Seattle wasn't going to make the playoffs.
You're probably right about Fangraphs. I don't know, I've always like BaseballReference.
... and I guess we'll just have to see. I do think they consider some of those things. Obviously I'm not taking away from Kyle Lewis' season he had, it was great. I'm just saying if we're looking at the whole picture and not just statistics in a vacuum, I would have to think Robert should win by a large margin considering he was among the top defensive players in all of baseball and prior to an easy to see why it happened drought, Robert was putting up excellent offensive production, too.
There are droughts and then there is hitting .085 for more than 1/3 of the season.
But as we all saw in the playoffs, you get him away from that 7th spot in the lineup and actually get some protection for the young man and he's excellent. I don't know about you, but I like a little context with my numbers.
You can't use the playoffs as context because they aren't considered in ROY voting, it's already done beforehand.
I'm not saying we should or should not use it to determine anything, I'm telling you guys what the rest of baseball already knows.
Ultimately, all that I'm trying to say is that Luis Robert would have my vote, if I had one.
And also the batting 7th thing doesn't work. Even with him batting 7th, he about the same protection as Kyle Lewis. Kyle Lewis has Ty France in front of him and Kyle Seager behind him, it's not like Lewis is in some vaunted lineup where pitchers have to pitch to him
-
@BodamEscapePlan said in Luis Robert:
@DBBG1515 said in Luis Robert:
I love the batting order justification, like Kyle Lewis was getting a lot of protection from the bums the Mariners have hitting behind him.
Fun fact, for the entire month of September Robert had the third lowest OBP in all of Major League Baseball.
He better be elite at defense because he surely isn’t elite at offense.
I wouldn't exactly call Kyle Lewis' September scorching hot either. Robert's offensive numbers were horrid but he was providing elite defense in CF, while Mariners wunderkid, Kyle Lewis was killing it with a .147 batting average and a white-hot .550 OPS.
I think this argument should die here.
So that would be roughly 150 points better OPS than Robert had over that same time period. That seems like a lot.
-
But as we all saw in the playoffs, you get him away from that 7th spot in the lineup and actually get some protection for the young man and he's excellent. I don't know about you, but I like a little context with my numbers.
He went 1-4 twice and 2-5 today hitting 6th with Nomar Mazara and his .228 average hitting behind him. He wasn’t really in any better spot in the lineup and wasn’t exactly awesome for the series.
-
@DBBG1515 said in Luis Robert:
@NCStateHokie said in Luis Robert:
Based on that homer I suspect we see his card go straight to diamond. At the very least he'll get a special 99 free diamond for hitting a long bomb. #2020Robert4presidente
Ha. I said earlier I expect the three 9th inning bosses to be retro future star John Smoltz, 99 postseason Luis Robert, and some Padre.
Tatis 125 overall super boss!
-
@DBBG1515 said in Luis Robert:
But as we all saw in the playoffs, you get him away from that 7th spot in the lineup and actually get some protection for the young man and he's excellent. I don't know about you, but I like a little context with my numbers.
He went 1-4 twice and 2-5 today hitting 6th with Nomar Mazara and his .228 average hitting behind him. He wasn’t really in any better spot in the lineup and wasn’t exactly awesome for the series.
One of the beauties about baseball is that the box-score doesn't come close to telling the whole story. I'm going to leave it at that as I don't feel like arguing about which one of our favorite team's rookies had a "better" September when in fact both of them struggled immensely.
If you can't wrap your head around how or why context is valuable in a sport such as baseball, I'm not going to be the one that teaches you that it is.
Edit: I see this whole "Kyle Lewis vs. Luis Robert" topic has been a real fixation of yours based on your post history. I didn't mean to insult one of your favorite players.
I suppose we all have our own opinions and reasons why we think one thing or another; it should suffice when I say I've just really enjoyed Luis Robert's defensive play. When you've seen guys like Melky Cabrera, Eloy Jimenez, Nicky Delmonico, and Dayan Viciedo patrol the outfield in the last 10 years, you begin to realize how important a strong fielder is out there.
-
@BodamEscapePlan said in Luis Robert:
@DBBG1515 said in Luis Robert:
But as we all saw in the playoffs, you get him away from that 7th spot in the lineup and actually get some protection for the young man and he's excellent. I don't know about you, but I like a little context with my numbers.
He went 1-4 twice and 2-5 today hitting 6th with Nomar Mazara and his .228 average hitting behind him. He wasn’t really in any better spot in the lineup and wasn’t exactly awesome for the series.
One of the beauties about baseball is that the box-score doesn't come close to telling the whole story. I'm going to leave it at that as I don't feel like arguing about which one of our favorite team's rookies had a "better" September when in fact both of them struggled immensely.
If you can't wrap your head around how or why context is valuable in a sport such as baseball, I'm not going to be the one that teaches you that it is.
I'm not a fan of either team, and sorry I don't know who else to put this, but it annoys me that you portray that Robert is basically the intellectuals choice when it comes to ROTY, when in fact it's the opposite. The casual fan will say Robert because of some flashy web gems.
Picking Robert is not some deep introspective thought process, it's the easy surface level choice.
-
@eatyum said in Luis Robert:
@BodamEscapePlan said in Luis Robert:
@DBBG1515 said in Luis Robert:
But as we all saw in the playoffs, you get him away from that 7th spot in the lineup and actually get some protection for the young man and he's excellent. I don't know about you, but I like a little context with my numbers.
He went 1-4 twice and 2-5 today hitting 6th with Nomar Mazara and his .228 average hitting behind him. He wasn’t really in any better spot in the lineup and wasn’t exactly awesome for the series.
One of the beauties about baseball is that the box-score doesn't come close to telling the whole story. I'm going to leave it at that as I don't feel like arguing about which one of our favorite team's rookies had a "better" September when in fact both of them struggled immensely.
If you can't wrap your head around how or why context is valuable in a sport such as baseball, I'm not going to be the one that teaches you that it is.
I'm not a fan of either team, and sorry I don't know who else to put this, but it annoys me that you portray that Robert is basically the intellectuals choice when it comes to ROTY, when in fact it's the opposite. The casual fan will say Robert because of some flashy web gems.
Picking Robert is not some deep introspective thought process, it's the easy surface level choice.
This!
Robert was basically a flashier Kevin Keirmaier this year. Fun fact, if he won ROY he would have the lowest BA ever for a ROY winner. The voters that look at the substance are not throwing their votes that direction over the guy that was at least competent at every aspect of the game.
-
@DBBG1515 @eatyum
I suppose we all have our own opinions and reasons why we think one thing or another; it should suffice when I say I've just really enjoyed Luis Robert's defensive play. When you've seen guys like Melky Cabrera, Eloy Jimenez, Nicky Delmonico, and Dayan Viciedo patrol the outfield in the last 10 years, you begin to realize how important a strong fielder is out there.
-
@BodamEscapePlan said in Luis Robert:
@DBBG1515 @eatyum
I suppose we all have our own opinions and reasons why we think one thing or another; it should suffice when I say I've just really enjoyed Luis Robert's defensive play. When you've seen guys like Melky Cabrera, Eloy Jimenez, Nicky Delmonico, and Dayan Viciedo patrol the outfield in the last 10 years, you begin to realize how important a strong fielder is out there.
As you should enjoy that, I'm not trying to say Robert is some scrub or that is fielding doesn't matter. He is a dynamite player and the sky is the limit in terms of ceiling.
-
@eatyum said in Luis Robert:
@BodamEscapePlan said in Luis Robert:
@DBBG1515 @eatyum
I suppose we all have our own opinions and reasons why we think one thing or another; it should suffice when I say I've just really enjoyed Luis Robert's defensive play. When you've seen guys like Melky Cabrera, Eloy Jimenez, Nicky Delmonico, and Dayan Viciedo patrol the outfield in the last 10 years, you begin to realize how important a strong fielder is out there.
As you should enjoy that, I'm not trying to say Robert is some scrub or that is fielding doesn't matter. He is a dynamite player and the sky is the limit in terms of ceiling.
I think this whole discussion got off on the wrong foot with my first reply which I regret posting.
-
Whoever ends up winning the award, if I had the choice to pick either Kyle Lewis or Luis Robert for my franchise moving forward, I would pick Luis Robert in a heartbeat and without hesitation. That's not a knock on Kyle Lewis, I think he had a really good season and is a bright spot for the Mariners. But Luis Robert is just different.
-
Robert might have a better overall tool set, but that September probably tanked him getting ROTY. It lowered his overall BA to 230 or something like that. His WAR is probably the only thing keeping him in contention for it. I've just never seen someone win ROTY having that low of a batting average.
With Kyle Lewis BA and WAR actually being higher, I dont think his worse defense is gonna be enough to let Robert snag it.
I dont think the argument that Robert hitting 7th will be enough either. The guys hitting around Lewis aren't that good.
That all said, Robert seems to have more potential for the future - especially with everything he can already do.
Either way we will see. I've invested in both, so I really hope its one of these two.
-
A admin locked this topic on
