The Sinker
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@olivegarden2 said in The Sinker:
I'm a hitter and pitcher in real life on a year round competitive team. I have seen a few sinkers here and there. I also see it on TV. I can tell you that it is a good pitch. It is good for enforcing grounders and contact. In this game it is too good though. In real life it breaks a little downwards. In this game it breaks like a changeup with way more velocity than a changeup. I think it is over powered. Do you guys think they should nerf it or keep giving it to every pitcher?
I think they should nerf it personally. Too many people are reliant on high sinkers because the velocity and break are just not realistic. It’s also interesting that they keep giving everyone a sinker when in reality sinkers are being thrown less and less due to the launch angle revolution, and teams valuing pitchers who throw 4 seamers with insane velo to combat it.
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@halfbutt said in The Sinker:
I feel like there must be something about the hitting engine that has lead to:
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adding randomized outcomes on good swings at patch 1.04
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perfect/good release pitches drifting to the middle of the plate
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every pitcher getting sinkers due to high sinker meta and general OP ness of the pitch
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crazy amount of movement on offspeed pitches and relative ineffectiveness of four seam fastballs
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add one of your own.
In other words, I think the sinker situation is rooted in the shortcomings of the current hitting.
First they need to fix pitcher control, base running, good timing contact results, and very late jammed hits.
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I'll probably get trolled for saying this, so I'm prepared for it.
I always thought the whole point of a sinker, was that it sank? In this game the sinker is thrown up. It could be me though. -
@johndarlas said in The Sinker:
I'll probably get trolled for saying this, so I'm prepared for it.
I always thought the whole point of a sinker, was that it sank? In this game the sinker is thrown up. It could be me though.LOL, the name is kinda plain
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@olivegarden2 said in The Sinker:
@lucas8181 said in The Sinker:
@Bob_Loblaw1984 said in The Sinker:
@ryrycon said in The Sinker:
@olivegarden2 said in The Sinker:
I'm a hitter and pitcher in real life on a year round competitive team. I have seen a few sinkers here and there. I also see it on TV. I can tell you that it is a good pitch. It is good for enforcing grounders and contact. In this game it is too good though. In real life it breaks a little downwards. In this game it breaks like a changeup with way more velocity than a changeup. I think it is over powered. Do you guys think they should nerf it or keep giving it to every pitcher?
Olivegarden you are on these forums posting a little much lmao
He prefers “breadstick” or “baked ziti.”
And the real problem with the sinker is it looks like a curveball out of the hand.
he asked me to stop calling him breadstick, so I switched to
grissino, he doesn't know what that means...don't tell him.I bet you the world that you are a spoiled child that your parents hate but continue to give up everything for you. You were probably also the smart Alec in school.
your what 15? 16? Im over 40, but keep trying boss, you'll get there. BTW, while both spellings are in the dictionary, more often than not, it's spelled Smart aleck, and absolutely! If the world can't laugh at themselves, why are we even here?
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@olivegarden2 said in The Sinker:
@lucas8181 said in The Sinker:
@Bob_Loblaw1984 said in The Sinker:
@ryrycon said in The Sinker:
@olivegarden2 said in The Sinker:
I'm a hitter and pitcher in real life on a year round competitive team. I have seen a few sinkers here and there. I also see it on TV. I can tell you that it is a good pitch. It is good for enforcing grounders and contact. In this game it is too good though. In real life it breaks a little downwards. In this game it breaks like a changeup with way more velocity than a changeup. I think it is over powered. Do you guys think they should nerf it or keep giving it to every pitcher?
Olivegarden you are on these forums posting a little much lmao
He prefers “breadstick” or “baked ziti.”
And the real problem with the sinker is it looks like a curveball out of the hand.
he asked me to stop calling him breadstick, so I switched to
grissino, he doesn't know what that means...don't tell him.I bet you the world that you are a spoiled child that your parents hate but continue to give up everything for you. You were probably also the smart Alec in school.
You two are a major impediment to world peace.
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@Bob_Loblaw1984 said in The Sinker:
@olivegarden2 said in The Sinker:
@lucas8181 said in The Sinker:
@Bob_Loblaw1984 said in The Sinker:
@ryrycon said in The Sinker:
@olivegarden2 said in The Sinker:
I'm a hitter and pitcher in real life on a year round competitive team. I have seen a few sinkers here and there. I also see it on TV. I can tell you that it is a good pitch. It is good for enforcing grounders and contact. In this game it is too good though. In real life it breaks a little downwards. In this game it breaks like a changeup with way more velocity than a changeup. I think it is over powered. Do you guys think they should nerf it or keep giving it to every pitcher?
Olivegarden you are on these forums posting a little much lmao
He prefers “breadstick” or “baked ziti.”
And the real problem with the sinker is it looks like a curveball out of the hand.
he asked me to stop calling him breadstick, so I switched to
grissino, he doesn't know what that means...don't tell him.I bet you the world that you are a spoiled child that your parents hate but continue to give up everything for you. You were probably also the smart Alec in school.
You two are a major impediment to world peace.
Look, the world always needs a villain, if no one else is willing to step up, I'll take one for the team. It's who I am, and at my core, I'll sleep better knowing that I filled a vital roll in the world.
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@lucas8181 said in The Sinker:
@Bob_Loblaw1984 said in The Sinker:
@olivegarden2 said in The Sinker:
@lucas8181 said in The Sinker:
@Bob_Loblaw1984 said in The Sinker:
@ryrycon said in The Sinker:
@olivegarden2 said in The Sinker:
I'm a hitter and pitcher in real life on a year round competitive team. I have seen a few sinkers here and there. I also see it on TV. I can tell you that it is a good pitch. It is good for enforcing grounders and contact. In this game it is too good though. In real life it breaks a little downwards. In this game it breaks like a changeup with way more velocity than a changeup. I think it is over powered. Do you guys think they should nerf it or keep giving it to every pitcher?
Olivegarden you are on these forums posting a little much lmao
He prefers “breadstick” or “baked ziti.”
And the real problem with the sinker is it looks like a curveball out of the hand.
he asked me to stop calling him breadstick, so I switched to
grissino, he doesn't know what that means...don't tell him.I bet you the world that you are a spoiled child that your parents hate but continue to give up everything for you. You were probably also the smart Alec in school.
You two are a major impediment to world peace.
Look, the world always needs a villain, if no one else is willing to step up, I'll take one for the team. It's who I am, and at my core, I'll sleep better knowing that I filled a vital roll in the world.
The world has plenty of villains without forum trolls. Although it does make my forum cigars more enjoyable.
Also, here’s a role for you. Grammar Nazi. Unless you’re filling your villain roll with cream cheese. Sounds tasty.
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I know people complain about sinners but I just don't see it. This isn't necessarily true for every pitcher I face, but I would usually rather hit against a sinkerballer than a 4 seam fastball guy. Last year high sinkers were unrealistically good but I don't think that's the case this year, and in my experience, sinkers tend to be located more predictably and in easier locations than 4 seam fastballs.
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You know what is interesting is that 2017 Postseason Charlie Morton card has a two seamer but no sinker AND has the sinkerballer quirk.
How weird is that?
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IMO. The sinker operates exactly how a sinker is supposed to. Some guys throw it very hard so the movement is later and more extreme. Some throw it a bit slower so there is more movement but it starts to break earlier. It's OP'd when you give every guy that throws 96+ a sinker. Or when you give a large portion of the Pitchers in the game a Sinker as their Main Pitch. A sinker is an out pitch. It's used to induce ground balls or to catch a guy off guard who's sitting on Fastballs and they can't throw a changeup.
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@jonnydaman said in The Sinker:
I know people complain about sinners but I just don't see it. This isn't necessarily true for every pitcher I face, but I would usually rather hit against a sinkerballer than a 4 seam fastball guy. Last year high sinkers were unrealistically good but I don't think that's the case this year, and in my experience, sinkers tend to be located more predictably and in easier locations than 4 seam fastballs.
There are sinners everywhere.
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@halfbutt said in The Sinker:
You know what is interesting is that 2017 Postseason Charlie Morton card has a two seamer but no sinker AND has the sinkerballer quirk.
How weird is that?
I don't think there is a 2 seamer quirk
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The issue is related primarily to how we are viewing pitches coming towards the batter. All of the hitting views are third person directly behind the plate. This doesn't allow for much depth perception or the ability to pick up spin. That's critical information a hitter's brain uses to determine whether he should swing.
In the game each fastball variation has a different movement. Breaking balls and change ups have an unnatural rise and fall out of the hand. This is so you can distinguish pitches while playing the game.
The issue with Sinkers is one they've tried to address before but haven't gotten it right.
IRL you can't throw a Sinker up in the zone and get the same movement as if you go down in the zone. They flatten out and are generally slower than a 4seam and are easier to hit. What happens in the game is high Sinkers pop up out of the hand similar to offspeed which is visually deceptive. It's why they seem to come in faster because of how much movement is still present. They aren't actually faster, they're just way too deceptive.
There are two options they could implement, both would active the same goal.
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Restrict where certain pitches can be aimed. MLB 2k did this and made a lot of sense. Fastballs (2 seam, 4 seam, and cutter) could be placed anywhere. Sinkers and all other pitches couldn't be started higher than the middle of the zone. So to get for instance a sinker to go high you had to bork your input, but that reduced pitch effectiveness and was more likely to get crushed.
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Larger break and effectiveness penalities for placing pitches like Sinkers up in the zone. Some of you probably don't like the idea of realistic pitching boundaries, but in this case you'd be risking a less effective pitch throwing it where it's not designed to go.
Either way, the Sinker movement up in the zone needs to flatten out closer to a 2 seam and that hump out of the hand needs to go.
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@pbake12 said in The Sinker:
I would say the break isn’t actually enough in this game. Look at good MLB sinkers IRL, they will start and the knee and end at the ankles, e.i. Greg Maddox.
However, I do feel they appear way to fast in this game! A 95 sinker seems way faster then a 99 fastball. Also most in this game should just be a 2 seamer, I would only give a handful an actual sinker with the big break.
Apparently you never saw Kevin Brown pitch!!! He was tossing triple digit sinkers back in the 90’s with otherworldly downward movement. His sinker would literally drop from the chest to ankles over. Surprised we haven’t seen his card show up over last few years
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@PAinPA said in The Sinker:
2S- index and middle finger held on top of the seams on the narrow part,thrown with a normal throwing motion. pitch will "run" and have some drop.
4S- index and middle finger across the seams at the narrow part,normal throwing motion. Straight fastball.
Sinker thrown with one of two grips
2S grip with pronating the wrist during throwing, get some run but a lot more depth than a 2S, pitch trail on in pitcher offset with Hershiser for a good example.pitch is a couple mph slower than a 4S.
other grip is a 4S grip with wrist pronation during throwing, hardly any run great depth and mph similar to 4S, I personally call this a hard sinkerGood info
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Every post degenerates into name calling and nonsense on this forum. No wonder our opinions are rarely addressed by the dev team.
Sinkers are the most effective fastball in the game due to their deceptive break and high movement and velocity. It’s been this way for the past two years at least.
Two seamers barely move at all and are most effectively used as a “change up” as they come in several mph short of the four and can get batters to roll over if they’re looking dead red.
Four seamers for most pitchers are their most accurate and number one pitch, however when playing the game they are usually the pitch you least want to throw thanks to their flat movement and hittable velocity. The problem with fastballs in this game is that you can sit off speed but still foul off the average fastball. They just aren’t fast enough, if you’re looking for a change up and they throw a heater you should have no chance at even foul tipping it, but that’s not to be in the show.
Cutters are just hanging sliders that go further over the fence when you hit them
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The problem I have with with the sinker isn’t that it moves too much or the direction it moves. The problem is the hump in it that makes it look like a breaking ball and then it turbos into the zone from there making it feel faster than a 4 seam fastball.
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