New Lefty
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@formallyforearms said in New Lefty:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Lefty:
@formallyforearms said in New Lefty:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Lefty:
@IIJACKINTHBOXII said in New Lefty:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Lefty:
@IIJACKINTHBOXII said in New Lefty:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Lefty:
@IIJACKINTHBOXII said in New Lefty:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Lefty:
@SchnauzerFace said in New Lefty:
I knew Hernandez played in St Louis but I never knew he played there longer than in NY.
As bad as gameplay can be, I love this game for teaching me new things about baseball history. I also didn’t know very much about Robin Roberts or George Foster, so I’ve already learned about a couple new players from baseball history this year. So that’s cool.
Fielding still sucks though.
Hernandez had the two best seasons of his career with the cardinals as well.
He won the co-MVP in St. Louis.
Which is just absurd. Stargell didn’t deserve a single first place vote. He shouldn’t have even been in the top 20 that year, and even that might be generous.
Winfield, Schmidt, and Hernandez were the only three deserving candidates.
It’s pretty cringeworthy to look back at old MVP voting results because of how unbelievably wrong most of them are.
It’s insane. I was recently looking at 1998, the year McGwire hit 70hrs. McGwire was better than Sosa in almost every category, still finished second to him in the MVP.
McGwire probably could’ve gotten 10+ fWAR that year if he could play defense better than a little leaguer.
Bonds and McGwire could’ve been true co-MVPs that year though. Both had 8.5 fWAR, but Bonds had better defense while McGwire had better offense. Sosa absolutely did not deserve that MVP either.
IDK, to me, McGwire was the clear winner. Bonds could have finished 2nd, instead of 8th. Trevor Hoffman finished 7th. Hoffman had a great year, but c’mon now. These MVP voters were out of their minds. 1979, I can forgive because of mainstream drug use, but not 1998.
Bonds: 170 wRC+, 3.1 Def, 8.5 fWAR
McGwire: 205 wRC+, -25.1 Def, 8.5 fWARBoth provided the same amount of value, just in different ways. McGwire’s -25.1 Def was the worst in the league among qualified players, at any position. There’s solid cases for both guys.
There is not a solid case for Sosa however lmao
TBF, we can do this with almost any season. 1995 Barry Larkin comes immediately to mind. Bonds, Piazza, and even Reggie Sanders had a better season than Larkin did.
This is true, but you’ll never see it happen anytime in the future.
That’s why advanced stats and sabermetrics are important, so guys don’t get cheated out of awards they deserve.
That Larkin one ticked me off pretty badly. Looking back now, Bonds led in WAR and OPS and finished 12th in MVP voting.
But he was really really mean to the media
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@ItsaCanesthing said in New Lefty:
@formallyforearms said in New Lefty:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Lefty:
@formallyforearms said in New Lefty:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Lefty:
@IIJACKINTHBOXII said in New Lefty:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Lefty:
@IIJACKINTHBOXII said in New Lefty:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Lefty:
@IIJACKINTHBOXII said in New Lefty:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Lefty:
@SchnauzerFace said in New Lefty:
I knew Hernandez played in St Louis but I never knew he played there longer than in NY.
As bad as gameplay can be, I love this game for teaching me new things about baseball history. I also didn’t know very much about Robin Roberts or George Foster, so I’ve already learned about a couple new players from baseball history this year. So that’s cool.
Fielding still sucks though.
Hernandez had the two best seasons of his career with the cardinals as well.
He won the co-MVP in St. Louis.
Which is just absurd. Stargell didn’t deserve a single first place vote. He shouldn’t have even been in the top 20 that year, and even that might be generous.
Winfield, Schmidt, and Hernandez were the only three deserving candidates.
It’s pretty cringeworthy to look back at old MVP voting results because of how unbelievably wrong most of them are.
It’s insane. I was recently looking at 1998, the year McGwire hit 70hrs. McGwire was better than Sosa in almost every category, still finished second to him in the MVP.
McGwire probably could’ve gotten 10+ fWAR that year if he could play defense better than a little leaguer.
Bonds and McGwire could’ve been true co-MVPs that year though. Both had 8.5 fWAR, but Bonds had better defense while McGwire had better offense. Sosa absolutely did not deserve that MVP either.
IDK, to me, McGwire was the clear winner. Bonds could have finished 2nd, instead of 8th. Trevor Hoffman finished 7th. Hoffman had a great year, but c’mon now. These MVP voters were out of their minds. 1979, I can forgive because of mainstream drug use, but not 1998.
Bonds: 170 wRC+, 3.1 Def, 8.5 fWAR
McGwire: 205 wRC+, -25.1 Def, 8.5 fWARBoth provided the same amount of value, just in different ways. McGwire’s -25.1 Def was the worst in the league among qualified players, at any position. There’s solid cases for both guys.
There is not a solid case for Sosa however lmao
TBF, we can do this with almost any season. 1995 Barry Larkin comes immediately to mind. Bonds, Piazza, and even Reggie Sanders had a better season than Larkin did.
This is true, but you’ll never see it happen anytime in the future.
That’s why advanced stats and sabermetrics are important, so guys don’t get cheated out of awards they deserve.
That Larkin one ticked me off pretty badly. Looking back now, Bonds led in WAR and OPS and finished 12th in MVP voting.
But he was really really mean to the media
The media deserved every bit of it.
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IMO the MVP isn't necessarily the best players, but the most valuable to his team. I always ask myself how his team would have done if he wasn't there.
I know that's not popular these days, but its how I've always judged MVP awards.
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@IIJACKINTHBOXII said in New Lefty:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Lefty:
@IIJACKINTHBOXII said in New Lefty:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Lefty:
@SchnauzerFace said in New Lefty:
I knew Hernandez played in St Louis but I never knew he played there longer than in NY.
As bad as gameplay can be, I love this game for teaching me new things about baseball history. I also didn’t know very much about Robin Roberts or George Foster, so I’ve already learned about a couple new players from baseball history this year. So that’s cool.
Fielding still sucks though.
Hernandez had the two best seasons of his career with the cardinals as well.
He won the co-MVP in St. Louis.
Which is just absurd. Stargell didn’t deserve a single first place vote. He shouldn’t have even been in the top 20 that year, and even that might be generous.
Winfield, Schmidt, and Hernandez were the only three deserving candidates.
It’s pretty cringeworthy to look back at old MVP voting results because of how unbelievably wrong most of them are.
It’s insane. I was recently looking at 1998, the year McGwire hit 70hrs. McGwire was better than Sosa in almost every category, still finished second to him in the MVP.
You're wrong. Sosa had more R, RBI, more hits, better average, throw in 18 steals, and he played in the OF not 1B... McGuire wacked 4 more HR.
Plus Sosa propelled the Cubs to the playoffs and McGuires Cardinals didn't.
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@notoriousHEB said in New Lefty:
@IIJACKINTHBOXII said in New Lefty:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Lefty:
@IIJACKINTHBOXII said in New Lefty:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Lefty:
@SchnauzerFace said in New Lefty:
I knew Hernandez played in St Louis but I never knew he played there longer than in NY.
As bad as gameplay can be, I love this game for teaching me new things about baseball history. I also didn’t know very much about Robin Roberts or George Foster, so I’ve already learned about a couple new players from baseball history this year. So that’s cool.
Fielding still sucks though.
Hernandez had the two best seasons of his career with the cardinals as well.
He won the co-MVP in St. Louis.
Which is just absurd. Stargell didn’t deserve a single first place vote. He shouldn’t have even been in the top 20 that year, and even that might be generous.
Winfield, Schmidt, and Hernandez were the only three deserving candidates.
It’s pretty cringeworthy to look back at old MVP voting results because of how unbelievably wrong most of them are.
It’s insane. I was recently looking at 1998, the year McGwire hit 70hrs. McGwire was better than Sosa in almost every category, still finished second to him in the MVP.
You're wrong. Sosa had more R, RBI, more hits, better average, throw in 18 steals, and he played in the OF not 1B... McGuire wacked 4 more HR.
Plus Sosa propelled the Cubs to the playoffs and McGuires Cardinals didn't.
I'm not wrong. Your thinking is archaic.
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@IIJACKINTHBOXII said in New Lefty:
@notoriousHEB said in New Lefty:
@IIJACKINTHBOXII said in New Lefty:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Lefty:
@IIJACKINTHBOXII said in New Lefty:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Lefty:
@SchnauzerFace said in New Lefty:
I knew Hernandez played in St Louis but I never knew he played there longer than in NY.
As bad as gameplay can be, I love this game for teaching me new things about baseball history. I also didn’t know very much about Robin Roberts or George Foster, so I’ve already learned about a couple new players from baseball history this year. So that’s cool.
Fielding still sucks though.
Hernandez had the two best seasons of his career with the cardinals as well.
He won the co-MVP in St. Louis.
Which is just absurd. Stargell didn’t deserve a single first place vote. He shouldn’t have even been in the top 20 that year, and even that might be generous.
Winfield, Schmidt, and Hernandez were the only three deserving candidates.
It’s pretty cringeworthy to look back at old MVP voting results because of how unbelievably wrong most of them are.
It’s insane. I was recently looking at 1998, the year McGwire hit 70hrs. McGwire was better than Sosa in almost every category, still finished second to him in the MVP.
You're wrong. Sosa had more R, RBI, more hits, better average, throw in 18 steals, and he played in the OF not 1B... McGuire wacked 4 more HR.
Plus Sosa propelled the Cubs to the playoffs and McGuires Cardinals didn't.
I'm not wrong. Your thinking is archaic.
You just said McGuire led Sosa in almost every category. You were wrong, that was not the case at all.
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@notoriousHEB said in New Lefty:
@IIJACKINTHBOXII said in New Lefty:
@notoriousHEB said in New Lefty:
@IIJACKINTHBOXII said in New Lefty:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Lefty:
@IIJACKINTHBOXII said in New Lefty:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Lefty:
@SchnauzerFace said in New Lefty:
I knew Hernandez played in St Louis but I never knew he played there longer than in NY.
As bad as gameplay can be, I love this game for teaching me new things about baseball history. I also didn’t know very much about Robin Roberts or George Foster, so I’ve already learned about a couple new players from baseball history this year. So that’s cool.
Fielding still sucks though.
Hernandez had the two best seasons of his career with the cardinals as well.
He won the co-MVP in St. Louis.
Which is just absurd. Stargell didn’t deserve a single first place vote. He shouldn’t have even been in the top 20 that year, and even that might be generous.
Winfield, Schmidt, and Hernandez were the only three deserving candidates.
It’s pretty cringeworthy to look back at old MVP voting results because of how unbelievably wrong most of them are.
It’s insane. I was recently looking at 1998, the year McGwire hit 70hrs. McGwire was better than Sosa in almost every category, still finished second to him in the MVP.
You're wrong. Sosa had more R, RBI, more hits, better average, throw in 18 steals, and he played in the OF not 1B... McGuire wacked 4 more HR.
Plus Sosa propelled the Cubs to the playoffs and McGuires Cardinals didn't.
I'm not wrong. Your thinking is archaic.
You just said McGuire led Sosa in almost every category. You were wrong, that was not the case at all.
Apologies. I meant every important category.
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@IIJACKINTHBOXII said in New Lefty:
@notoriousHEB said in New Lefty:
@IIJACKINTHBOXII said in New Lefty:
@notoriousHEB said in New Lefty:
@IIJACKINTHBOXII said in New Lefty:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Lefty:
@IIJACKINTHBOXII said in New Lefty:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Lefty:
@SchnauzerFace said in New Lefty:
I knew Hernandez played in St Louis but I never knew he played there longer than in NY.
As bad as gameplay can be, I love this game for teaching me new things about baseball history. I also didn’t know very much about Robin Roberts or George Foster, so I’ve already learned about a couple new players from baseball history this year. So that’s cool.
Fielding still sucks though.
Hernandez had the two best seasons of his career with the cardinals as well.
He won the co-MVP in St. Louis.
Which is just absurd. Stargell didn’t deserve a single first place vote. He shouldn’t have even been in the top 20 that year, and even that might be generous.
Winfield, Schmidt, and Hernandez were the only three deserving candidates.
It’s pretty cringeworthy to look back at old MVP voting results because of how unbelievably wrong most of them are.
It’s insane. I was recently looking at 1998, the year McGwire hit 70hrs. McGwire was better than Sosa in almost every category, still finished second to him in the MVP.
You're wrong. Sosa had more R, RBI, more hits, better average, throw in 18 steals, and he played in the OF not 1B... McGuire wacked 4 more HR.
Plus Sosa propelled the Cubs to the playoffs and McGuires Cardinals didn't.
I'm not wrong. Your thinking is archaic.
You just said McGuire led Sosa in almost every category. You were wrong, that was not the case at all.
Apologies. I meant every important category.
So actual production R, RBI, AVG, etc and defensive ability, base running, aren't important to you? LMAO what a clown. Another guy that learns trendy new things like WAR but yet can't properly apply the metrics in discussion.
Keep reading kid. You might learn how to apply those things some day. Pick up the Baseball Forecaster it's a good jump on extra analytics and maybe give you perspective on the use and application of analytics.
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@notoriousHEB said in New Lefty:
@IIJACKINTHBOXII said in New Lefty:
@notoriousHEB said in New Lefty:
@IIJACKINTHBOXII said in New Lefty:
@notoriousHEB said in New Lefty:
@IIJACKINTHBOXII said in New Lefty:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Lefty:
@IIJACKINTHBOXII said in New Lefty:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Lefty:
@SchnauzerFace said in New Lefty:
I knew Hernandez played in St Louis but I never knew he played there longer than in NY.
As bad as gameplay can be, I love this game for teaching me new things about baseball history. I also didn’t know very much about Robin Roberts or George Foster, so I’ve already learned about a couple new players from baseball history this year. So that’s cool.
Fielding still sucks though.
Hernandez had the two best seasons of his career with the cardinals as well.
He won the co-MVP in St. Louis.
Which is just absurd. Stargell didn’t deserve a single first place vote. He shouldn’t have even been in the top 20 that year, and even that might be generous.
Winfield, Schmidt, and Hernandez were the only three deserving candidates.
It’s pretty cringeworthy to look back at old MVP voting results because of how unbelievably wrong most of them are.
It’s insane. I was recently looking at 1998, the year McGwire hit 70hrs. McGwire was better than Sosa in almost every category, still finished second to him in the MVP.
You're wrong. Sosa had more R, RBI, more hits, better average, throw in 18 steals, and he played in the OF not 1B... McGuire wacked 4 more HR.
Plus Sosa propelled the Cubs to the playoffs and McGuires Cardinals didn't.
I'm not wrong. Your thinking is archaic.
You just said McGuire led Sosa in almost every category. You were wrong, that was not the case at all.
Apologies. I meant every important category.
So actual production R, RBI, AVG, etc and defensive ability, base running, aren't important to you? LMAO what a clown. Another guy that learns trendy new things like WAR but yet can't properly apply the metrics in discussion.
Keep reading kid. You might learn how to apply those things some day. Pick up the Baseball Forecaster it's a good jump on extra analytics and maybe give you perspective on the use and application of analytics.
Nice one! Please don’t refer to runs when discussing the value of a player, it makes you look foolish.
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@notoriousHEB said in New Lefty:
@IIJACKINTHBOXII said in New Lefty:
@notoriousHEB said in New Lefty:
@IIJACKINTHBOXII said in New Lefty:
@notoriousHEB said in New Lefty:
@IIJACKINTHBOXII said in New Lefty:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Lefty:
@IIJACKINTHBOXII said in New Lefty:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Lefty:
@SchnauzerFace said in New Lefty:
I knew Hernandez played in St Louis but I never knew he played there longer than in NY.
As bad as gameplay can be, I love this game for teaching me new things about baseball history. I also didn’t know very much about Robin Roberts or George Foster, so I’ve already learned about a couple new players from baseball history this year. So that’s cool.
Fielding still sucks though.
Hernandez had the two best seasons of his career with the cardinals as well.
He won the co-MVP in St. Louis.
Which is just absurd. Stargell didn’t deserve a single first place vote. He shouldn’t have even been in the top 20 that year, and even that might be generous.
Winfield, Schmidt, and Hernandez were the only three deserving candidates.
It’s pretty cringeworthy to look back at old MVP voting results because of how unbelievably wrong most of them are.
It’s insane. I was recently looking at 1998, the year McGwire hit 70hrs. McGwire was better than Sosa in almost every category, still finished second to him in the MVP.
You're wrong. Sosa had more R, RBI, more hits, better average, throw in 18 steals, and he played in the OF not 1B... McGuire wacked 4 more HR.
Plus Sosa propelled the Cubs to the playoffs and McGuires Cardinals didn't.
I'm not wrong. Your thinking is archaic.
You just said McGuire led Sosa in almost every category. You were wrong, that was not the case at all.
Apologies. I meant every important category.
So actual production R, RBI, AVG, etc and defensive ability, base running, aren't important to you? LMAO what a clown. Another guy that learns trendy new things like WAR but yet can't properly apply the metrics in discussion.
Keep reading kid. You might learn how to apply those things some day. Pick up the Baseball Forecaster it's a good jump on extra analytics and maybe give you perspective on the use and application of analytics.
"Actual Production R, RBI, AVG"
The player has very little control over two of those, and the other tells a very incomplete picture -
@ImDFC said in New Lefty:
@notoriousHEB said in New Lefty:
@IIJACKINTHBOXII said in New Lefty:
@notoriousHEB said in New Lefty:
@IIJACKINTHBOXII said in New Lefty:
@notoriousHEB said in New Lefty:
@IIJACKINTHBOXII said in New Lefty:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Lefty:
@IIJACKINTHBOXII said in New Lefty:
@DriveByTrucker17 said in New Lefty:
@SchnauzerFace said in New Lefty:
I knew Hernandez played in St Louis but I never knew he played there longer than in NY.
As bad as gameplay can be, I love this game for teaching me new things about baseball history. I also didn’t know very much about Robin Roberts or George Foster, so I’ve already learned about a couple new players from baseball history this year. So that’s cool.
Fielding still sucks though.
Hernandez had the two best seasons of his career with the cardinals as well.
He won the co-MVP in St. Louis.
Which is just absurd. Stargell didn’t deserve a single first place vote. He shouldn’t have even been in the top 20 that year, and even that might be generous.
Winfield, Schmidt, and Hernandez were the only three deserving candidates.
It’s pretty cringeworthy to look back at old MVP voting results because of how unbelievably wrong most of them are.
It’s insane. I was recently looking at 1998, the year McGwire hit 70hrs. McGwire was better than Sosa in almost every category, still finished second to him in the MVP.
You're wrong. Sosa had more R, RBI, more hits, better average, throw in 18 steals, and he played in the OF not 1B... McGuire wacked 4 more HR.
Plus Sosa propelled the Cubs to the playoffs and McGuires Cardinals didn't.
I'm not wrong. Your thinking is archaic.
You just said McGuire led Sosa in almost every category. You were wrong, that was not the case at all.
Apologies. I meant every important category.
So actual production R, RBI, AVG, etc and defensive ability, base running, aren't important to you? LMAO what a clown. Another guy that learns trendy new things like WAR but yet can't properly apply the metrics in discussion.
Keep reading kid. You might learn how to apply those things some day. Pick up the Baseball Forecaster it's a good jump on extra analytics and maybe give you perspective on the use and application of analytics.
"Actual Production R, RBI, AVG"
The player has very little control over two of those, and the other tells a very incomplete pictureYou do when you hit 50 points higher in high leverage situations (as Sosa did) and 30 points higher with RISP (as Sosa did) and have the base running ability to swipe 18 bags to put yourself in scoring position (as Sosa did) rather than being a stone footed sloth.
I also never claimed it gave a complete picture, just responded to the guy who incorrectly claimed McGwire led Sosa in every category, noting Sosa led in those categories, before he stated actual production was not important.
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