Secondary position bump
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Basically, I think that every secondary postion shouldnt automatically be a ratings drop.
When center fielders get moved to the corners irl they generally grade out better defensively then in center, same with ss at 2b and 3rd basemen at 1st. If the opposite happens then the player usually grades out worse.
So my idea is that if i have a center fielder (ie. Ricky) and move him to his secondary position (LF) his defensive rstings should go up not down. If i have a right feilder (ie. Judge) and i move him to center then he should have the rating drop because he is playing a tougher position then his primary.
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This is an interesting topic.
There’s some merit in this concept generally, but I’m not sure the outfield positions break down exactly the way you are saying. Center requires range, but is actually easier to track batted balls due to less spin. The corner spots need to deal with tailing/diving balls, bullpen mounds, tarps and corners. Further, in right field you must occasionally deal with the longest/hardest throw in the game - RF to 3b. (LF never throw to first.). LF is much easier, generally, than RF.
To really do this right you’d have to look at each attribute such as throwing accuracy and evaluate how well the player is suited to the alternate position. That would be pretty complex.
I think the main spot this concept would apply is 3b to 1b. You need quick reflexes on line drives in either spot, but 3b requires a cannon arm and the ability to initiate double plays by being perfectly in sync with the shortstop breaking to 2b for the 5-6-3 dp. At 1b, there’s some intricacies to picking balls in the dirt, but you rarely make a consequential throw. I could see a 3b stats going UP when moving to third, potentially even a gold 3b becoming diamond at 1b.
Hope this generates interesting discussion.
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@Quinn2161 said in Secondary position bump:
Basically, I think that every secondary postion shouldnt automatically be a ratings drop.
When center fielders get moved to the corners irl they generally grade out better defensively then in center, same with ss at 2b and 3rd basemen at 1st. If the opposite happens then the player usually grades out worse.
So my idea is that if i have a center fielder (ie. Ricky) and move him to his secondary position (LF) his defensive rstings should go up not down. If i have a right feilder (ie. Judge) and i move him to center then he should have the rating drop because he is playing a tougher position then his primary.
Interesting points. I don't think moving someone from RF/LF to CF is more difficult. They should be able to catch flyballs/liners, but wouldn't have the reaction or range like a typical CF.
Moving from 3B to SS/2B is more difficult because of the range/arm accuracy.
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@vox_pestis said in Secondary position bump:
This is an interesting topic.
There’s some merit in this concept generally, but I’m not sure the outfield positions break down exactly the way you are saying. Center requires range, but is actually easier to track batted balls due to less spin. The corner spots need to deal with tailing/diving balls, bullpen mounds, tarps and corners. Further, in right field you must occasionally deal with the longest/hardest throw in the game - RF to 3b. (LF never throw to first.). LF is much easier, generally, than RF.
To really do this right you’d have to look at each attribute such as throwing accuracy and evaluate how well the player is suited to the alternate position. That would be pretty complex.
I think the main spot this concept would apply is 3b to 1b. You need quick reflexes on line drives in either spot, but 3b requires a cannon arm and the ability to initiate double plays by being perfectly in sync with the shortstop breaking to 2b for the 5-6-3 dp. At 1b, there’s some intricacies to picking balls in the dirt, but you rarely make a consequential throw. I could see a 3b stats going UP when moving to third, potentially even a gold 3b becoming diamond at 1b.
Hope this generates interesting discussion.
I’m really nitpicking here, but I’m not sure I’ve heard of a 5-6-3 double play as the 2B (or 4) would be covering the second base bag on a double play hit to the 3B.
But I agree on the other things you brought up. -
@BIGHOOV2713 said in Secondary position bump:
@vox_pestis said in Secondary position bump:
This is an interesting topic.
There’s some merit in this concept generally, but I’m not sure the outfield positions break down exactly the way you are saying. Center requires range, but is actually easier to track batted balls due to less spin. The corner spots need to deal with tailing/diving balls, bullpen mounds, tarps and corners. Further, in right field you must occasionally deal with the longest/hardest throw in the game - RF to 3b. (LF never throw to first.). LF is much easier, generally, than RF.
To really do this right you’d have to look at each attribute such as throwing accuracy and evaluate how well the player is suited to the alternate position. That would be pretty complex.
I think the main spot this concept would apply is 3b to 1b. You need quick reflexes on line drives in either spot, but 3b requires a cannon arm and the ability to initiate double plays by being perfectly in sync with the shortstop breaking to 2b for the 5-6-3 dp. At 1b, there’s some intricacies to picking balls in the dirt, but you rarely make a consequential throw. I could see a 3b stats going UP when moving to third, potentially even a gold 3b becoming diamond at 1b.
Hope this generates interesting discussion.
I’m really nitpicking here, but I’m not sure I’ve heard of a 5-6-3 double play as the 2B (or 4) would be covering the second base bag on a double play hit to the 3B.
But I agree on the other things you brought up.He must be thinking about the shift with a runner on 1st. Lol
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@BIGHOOV2713 said in Secondary position bump:
@vox_pestis said in Secondary position bump:
This is an interesting topic.
There’s some merit in this concept generally, but I’m not sure the outfield positions break down exactly the way you are saying. Center requires range, but is actually easier to track batted balls due to less spin. The corner spots need to deal with tailing/diving balls, bullpen mounds, tarps and corners. Further, in right field you must occasionally deal with the longest/hardest throw in the game - RF to 3b. (LF never throw to first.). LF is much easier, generally, than RF.
To really do this right you’d have to look at each attribute such as throwing accuracy and evaluate how well the player is suited to the alternate position. That would be pretty complex.
I think the main spot this concept would apply is 3b to 1b. You need quick reflexes on line drives in either spot, but 3b requires a cannon arm and the ability to initiate double plays by being perfectly in sync with the shortstop breaking to 2b for the 5-6-3 dp. At 1b, there’s some intricacies to picking balls in the dirt, but you rarely make a consequential throw. I could see a 3b stats going UP when moving to third, potentially even a gold 3b becoming diamond at 1b.
Hope this generates interesting discussion.
I’m really nitpicking here, but I’m not sure I’ve heard of a 5-6-3 double play as the 2B (or 4) would be covering the second base bag on a double play hit to the 3B.
But I agree on the other things you brought up.Lol mental lapse! It’s not nitpicking when someone is objectively wrong and you are fixing it.
5-6-3 certainly happen, but only in weird shift situations. You are, obviously, correct. -
I think as long as the position move is in the right “direction” and the arm strength for the new/secondary position is enough, I agree, there really shouldn’t be a penalty.
The penalty should probably be there when a 2b/3b moves to shortstop but moving from short to second or short to third should be fine.
Going from left to right should be fine, but again, as long as the arm strength is there.
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Could we say that a SS should be able to play every position on the field? Lol that could be sweet in some circumstances. I’ve already based a lot of my decisions on XP packs and such by saying, “Yeah... I think I’d still rather have Mondesi.”
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As far as OF are concerned i was speaking of uzr and other advanced metrics irl tend to favor cf moving to the corners.
Good example is jason Heyward, gold glove in RF, metrics back it up but when moved to center he loses some value in the metrics eye, hes still good in center but loses some value to his overall d. When a CF is moved to a corner usually the ratings favor the corner spot for the player. There is a lot of factors that go into it such as arm strength and ability to read spin on ball ect but for the most part it holds true.
Maybe if the CF has the arm strength over 80 he can move to right with no penalty but gets a bump in left?
But definitely if a 3rd basemen with d over 80 moves to 1st he shouldnt be penalized, i understand if the player isnt strong defensively to start with he probably shouldnt get a bump but if moving a strong defensive player to an easier position then that player should receive a bump not a minus. If a weak defensive player is moved he might struggle more out of his natural position and i can see the minus happening but to say arrenado or chapman would go down defensively playing 1st base doesnt seem right to me
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@wingo18 said in Secondary position bump:
Could we say that a SS should be able to play every position on the field? Lol that could be sweet in some circumstances. I’ve already based a lot of my decisions on XP packs and such by saying, “Yeah... I think I’d still rather have Mondesi.”
A ss most of the time has the skill set to play any spot but some are more suited to play cf as a secondary position (ie turner) and some might be better suited for 3rd (ie bogaerts)or 2nd (ie torres) so id say you would still have to have the position as a secondary position for the player to be able to capably play it.
I like that oop players handicap the ability to play players oop so we dont have guys playing gallo at 2nd base or ricky at ss when it isnt a listed position.
I was just speaking for good defensive players who have secondary positions not to be penalized playing those spots if they are generally an easier spot to play ie arenado playing 1st instead of 3rd
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@Quinn2161 said in Secondary position bump:
Basically, I think that every secondary postion shouldnt automatically be a ratings drop.
When center fielders get moved to the corners irl they generally grade out better defensively then in center, same with ss at 2b and 3rd basemen at 1st. If the opposite happens then the player usually grades out worse.
So my idea is that if i have a center fielder (ie. Ricky) and move him to his secondary position (LF) his defensive rstings should go up not down. If i have a right feilder (ie. Judge) and i move him to center then he should have the rating drop because he is playing a tougher position then his primary.
Agreed and felt/feel.this way since last year..Great post.
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