Pete Alonso
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It makes no sense, unless I am looking at outdated data Matt Olson has better vision and clutch than Alonso when he absolutely should not. Pete should be a better offensive card than Matt, and he isnt. And it isnt just because of the splits.
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It makes no sense, unless I am looking at outdated data Matt Olson has better vision and clutch than Alonso when he absolutely should not. Pete should be a better offensive card than Matt, and he isnt. And it isnt just because of the splits.
You got me curious.
First clutch:
They both started at 87. Alonso ended at 65 and Olson at 71. The difference in in their updates.
Olson had a total of 28 points deducted from clutch total in 4 updates over the year which would have put him at 59. But to counter that he had two good stretches that gave him +10 and +2 in the other 2 updates. That left him at 71
Alonso only lost 22 points in 3 updates to bring him down to 65 but he had no upgrades to counter those.
I don't know how to look up Olson's BA with RISP for the period between the All-Star break and Mid-August which is when he got his big +10 bump.
Next Vision:
Alonso started at 64 and Olson at 56
Olson received updates of +1, +1, -4, +3 for a net change of +1
Alonso received updates of -3, +1, -6, -9 for a net change of -9I won't pretend to fully understand what exactly makes up vision so I won't dive into the numbers.
So if you are looking at the stats at the end of the year and basing it on those stats alone to make that determination then I would agree that Alonso should have better Attributes in those two categories.
Based on my program that projects ratings If you just raised Alonso's Vs L attributes to match Olson's then Alonso would also be an 85.
If you raised Alonso's Vision and Clutch (and only those) to match Olson then Alonso would be an 83. So the Vs L attributes do make the biggest difference.
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Whats comical is that SDS gave Mookie Betts the diamond this roster update. The guy is washed up and playing on the best team. He doesn't come close to Pete Alonso. Makes me sick! Pete deserves to be a diamond.
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Whats comical is that SDS gave Mookie Betts the diamond this roster update. The guy is washed up and playing on the best team. He doesn't come close to Pete Alonso. Makes me sick! Pete deserves to be a diamond.
Why does he deserve to be a diamond. What attributes should be higher? He really gets dinged for his vision while that is a stat that Mookie excelled at.
I've said it many times before that I don't agree with their ratings many times, but I also have seen, year after year, people who look at raw stats and not the attributes that make up those stats.
I think Alec Burleson should be higher than a 78. He led all of baseball in RBIs and had 26 HRs while batting 279. But I realize he is held back by his Vs L attributes. Looking at his splits I can't really argue with that.
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Betts is given a higher clutch than Alonso, while Betts was absolutely awful with RISP while Pete was just slightly below his normal stats
Betts has a higher contact vs L than Alonso, even though he had a lower average
Even considering past years it seems Betts is being favored.
Now, Betts plays GG caliber defense at a premium defensive position so thats obviously going to help his rating
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Betts is given a higher clutch than Alonso, while Betts was absolutely awful with RISP while Pete was just slightly below his normal stats
Betts has a higher contact vs L than Alonso, even though he had a lower average
We have to remember, whether we like it or not, the OVR ratings are not just indicative of this season. Maybe they should be but, in the two attributes you mentioned let's look at maybe why that is so.
CLUTCH
Last year Betts had a 295 AVG with Runners in Scoring Position
This year he had a .233 average. .062 less
He started the year with a clutch of 105 and lost 29 points of clutchLast Year Alonso had a .309 average with RISP
This year he had a .259 average. .050 less
He started the year with 87 clutch and lost 22 points of clutchSo, for clutch it seems pretty fair. Mookie had the bigger dropoff and lost more overall points than Alonso but because he started out so much higher, he still comes out ahead.
CONTACT vs L
Last year Betts hit .261 against lefties
This year he hit .250 against lefties. .011 points less
He Contract attribute against lefties started at 83 and he lost 11 pointsLast year Alonso hit .227 against lefties
This year he hit .251 against lefties. .024 points more.
His contact vs lefties started at 64 and he gained 2 points.So, arguments could be made for Alonso not being boosted enough in his contact vs Left. But there are some hints in his updates. He must have started out really slow against lefties because the first update saw him get a -5 points to that attribute bring him down to a 59. After that he got boosted by 10 total points. Before being docked -3 in the final update
Looking at his BA on a month-by-month basis (I don't know how to look at L/R splits month by month)
April/March .198 (-5 to Contact vs L on May 8th update)
May .277 (+1 to Con L on June 12th update)
June .278 (+1 to Con vs L on July 16th update)
July .261 (No change on Aug 14th update)
Aug .333 (+8 to Con vs L on Sept 11th)
Sept .262 (-3 to Con vs L on Oct 2nd)This brings up a point I have made before that the way that they handle upgrades means that if a player has a scorcher of a month and gets big upgrades, if they don't maintain that pace then chances are they will get downgraded during the next update.
I am also not going to pretend that SDS does not play favorites, but I don't really see it in this case. People look at the season stats and either don't look at the underlying attributes or pay no attention to where these players started the year.
Cal Raleigh still has more power than Jordan Walker, not because he hit more HRs but because of where he started. He lost a combined 37 points off his power attributes. But, because those attributes began the season so high, he still has higher power numbers than Walker who actually got a combined +42 to his power attributes
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BY the way I do that analysis as much for myself as anybody else, so that I can try to better understand the process.
I realize many people will glaze over that long post above.
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In 2024 Betts was a better clutch hitter than Alonso, so 2024 must be factoring into the mix here a bit more than we would perhaps expect.
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In 2024 Betts was a better clutch hitter than Alonso, so 2024 must be factoring into the mix here a bit more than we would perhaps expect.
It helps determine what their attributes are at the beginning of the year. They then get adjusted from there
If they both started with completely equal stats the Alonso would be ahead of Betts in those categories, just like Walker would have more power than Raleigh if they had both started with equal power
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If I look at the past 3 years total (which I thought SDS does), and I compare Pete to Mike Trout... I can't see how Mike is still an 85 and Pete is an 82.
Don't get me wrong - I love Mikey. But... there MUST be some biases baked into the rankings.
Although as usual, I'm sure I've missed something along the way.
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If I look at the past 3 years total (which I thought SDS does), and I compare Pete to Mike Trout... I can't see how Mike is still an 85 and Pete is an 82.
I would have to dig into the numbers, and I really don't want to right now, but I did say this in my long message.
Dolenz_PSN said:
I am also not going to pretend that SDS does not play favorites
An obvious example would be Jazz Chisholm in the year that he was the cover athlete. They just skipped updating for most of that year.
Or if you look at this year, they tried to protect Cal Raleigh by just not updating him at all in the first update.
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And at the end of the day their formulas are going to be imperfect, and the Show can only mimic MLB performance so much
Clutch stat is pretty specific to RISP with the way the show defines and uses it, but there is no stat in game that represents how Pete murdered the ball with a runner on first, or was generally a better hitter when his team was behind (well there is a perk for that, but perks don't impact overall)
Ultimately, unless you are investing, it really doesnt matter if the guy is a diamond or not anyway
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@MarioMendoza935_XBL
Trout was the gatekeeper for the Live Series for years even though he was sidelined with injuries yet never lost his Diamond status. Weird how they do things.
