Bryce Harper
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@PriorFir4383355_XBL said in Bryce Harper:
Collective Bargaining Agreement
In essence it is a tort contract specifying the nature of such things as pay, benefits, work conditions, and work rules.
Not according to our friend @LHUBison58_XBL. He says there's no bargaining and the owners get to decide unilaterally.
And he teaches a class!
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@whiplash0013_PSN said in Bryce Harper:
@LHUBison58_XBL said in Bryce Harper:
@SaveFarris_PSN said in Bryce Harper:
@PriorFir4383355_XBL said in Bryce Harper:
Take a look at it from how many small market teams won the WS since 2000. That list was and remains one team -- Kansas City and that was back in 2015. Since then, the closest WS champion to a small market was Houston and that's not a small market as Houston is one of the largest markets in the nation.
Number of teams in US Top 10 Markets:
Area---MLB---NFL---NBA
NYC 2 2 2
LA 2 2 2
CHI 2 1 1
DFW 1 1 1
PHI 1 1 1
HOU 1 1 1
ATL 1 1 1
DC 2 1 1
BOS 1 1 1
SF 2 1 1Total 15 12 12
NFL and NBA have more smaller markets winning because they have more smaller market teams.
Easier to define. No team not in the top quarter of payroll has won a World Series in 25+ years.
Categorically false. CWS won in 2005 with the 12th highest payroll, not top quarter. 2003 Marlins won and were 24th. 2002 Angels were 15th highest. 2015 Royals were 17th. Astros were 17th highest in 2017. Just to name a few.
Yep, and the Marlins and White Sox both very quickly traded away their core talent when it neared free agency or simply let them sign elsewhere. The Angels are also one of the largest market teams in MLB. So they had the money to sign free agents and keep their core talent when it reached free agency. The Astros being in Houston was likewise in a large market and did the same.
A salary floor would have prevented the Marlins and White Sox from selling off their core talent because they would have been forced to pay to keep them on the team.
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You're saying Chicago and Miami aren't big enough markets?
And that the NFL's salary floor prevented the Chiefs from losing...
Morris Clayborn
Terrell Suggs
LeShawn McCoy
Spencer Ware
LeVeon Bell
Sammy Watkins
Melvin Ingram
Kyle Long
Tyrann Mathieu
Alex Okafor
DeMarcus Robinson
Orlando Brown
JuJuSmith Shuster
Tyreke Hill -
- the NFL has 17 games vs 162 to fill stadiums;
- the NFL has bonkers national TV deals;
- NFL contracts are not guaranteed; guys get thrown away with no benefits and life altering disabilities;
- the NFL has the weakest union in pro sports; remember that Gamble line about making sure Goodell had Upshaw’s leash when he succeeded Tagliabue?
- the cap hasn’t made the NHL better; in fact, many teams abused the floor with bogus LTIR contracts to pad their payroll in cap money, not real money;
The players are the product, not the owners. People pay to see Harper, not the owner. This ain’t a factory where you can replace most jobs and keep people in indentured servitude and close up shop and move to Asia as soon as the unions show up.
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"Good News Kids! The Bulls just finished their 3-peat. Thanks to the NBA's salary floor, we can keep Scottie Pippin, Steve Kerr, Luc Longley and Dennis Rodman!" -- @PriorFir4383355_XBL in the fall of 1998.
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@yankblan_PSN said in Bryce Harper:
The players are the product, not the owners. People pay to see Harper, not the owner.
This.
All Day.
Every Day.But that I can Heart it only once.
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@SaveFarris_PSN said in Bryce Harper:
@PriorFir4383355_XBL said in Bryce Harper:
Collective Bargaining Agreement
In essence it is a tort contract specifying the nature of such things as pay, benefits, work conditions, and work rules.
Not according to our friend @LHUBison58_XBL. He says there's no bargaining and the owners get to decide unilaterally.
And he teaches a class!
Where did I say I teach a class? And there will be bargaining. But when the owners decide on a lock out or the players decide to strike then the owners are in a position to continue to hold the line on the issue they want. Most owners are not making their living off of baseball, they also don’t have a small window of viable years to be an owner, where as players have a finite career span. Please feel free to rightfully crticize me on what I actually say, but don’t be making stuff up.
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@LHUBison58_XBL said in Bryce Harper:
Where did I say I teach a class?
My deepest and humblest apologies. You were right and I was wrong. I read this...
I’ve attended uni classes in labor relations
and my brain couldn't comprehend that someone would be bragging about attending a lecture as if it was a qualification. Surely someone wouldn't be so full of themselves they would do that. So I read it as though you taught the class which would be an actual point.
Again, my sincerest apologies.
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@SaveFarris_PSN said in Bryce Harper:
@LHUBison58_XBL said in Bryce Harper:
A greatly expanded revenue sharing system, a floor and a ceiling is fair. The players will still get paid, but the elite 3% won’t get as much.
Expanded Revenue sharing won't work (at least the way MLB currently defines it) because they base it on revenue, not market size. A team like St. Louis is punished for being a small market with enormous revenue while a team like Washington is rewarded for being a large market with smaller revenues.
The problem isn't people like Harper and Ohtani getting mega-contracts Their respective teams have already earned their investment back and then some. It's teams like Miami, Oakland, and Tampa getting outdrawn by a college baseball team 5 years running.
I was 8 when the Marlins won in 1997. Many Marlins fans have never seen a team be good for more than just a brief period. The team screwed the fans over from day 1. It's hard to support a franchise that doesn't give a [censored] about the fans or the product on the field. We are likely trading Sandy Alcantara away this week. Add him to Miguel Cabrera, Christian Yelich, Derrick Lee, Josh Becketts of the world. I don't know why the Rays don't get more support, but I can explain the Marlins. It's just hard to invest in a team when the ownership won't do the same and this is coming from someone who watches just about every game. Driving an hour into Little Havana to watch Eric Wagaman stike out 5 times a game is not something that I'm willing to do when I know that any other team would've acquired a better option at 1b when the team is just 6 games out of the wild card and they have gotten nothing out of a position that should be producing much more offensively.
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FWIW, Marlins fans have this discussion all the time about attendance. The current park location is horrible and the 6:30 starts don't help. By having the park in the middle of Miami, you make it impossible for fans in Palm Beach/Broward counties to attend games.
The Panthers are in less populated Sunrise, so Miami-Dade people can still get there, Palm Beach residents can attend and anyone in broward can make it, but driving into Marlins Park is a pain in the [censored] even during the weekend.
People in Miami would attend Marlins games if the product was worth watching and they started to believe that ownership wasn't going to tear it down the following week. We just never get any indication that ownership cares. I'm personally for both a floor and a salary cap since I think it would help parity.
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@samguenther1987_PSN you do know baseball has had strikes as well right?
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@LHUBison58_XBL He's probably afraid of what most people are that are fans of NY, LA, etc. With a cap you actually need to have smart people making decisions in order to win. You can't just throw 200 million dollars at it. Doesn't take a whole lot of knowledge to be successful with a 250 million dollar budget.
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It's wild that while doing the 'Sabathia' Mini-Seasons, Harp came up to bat on one of the teams!
I was expecting him to park one on us, for me making this thread, so I pitched carefully! -
@olemissnole810_XBL said in Bryce Harper:
I'm personally for both a floor and a salary cap since I think it would help parity.
A salary floor means Braxton Garrett and Anthony Bender are making $8 million a year while the cost of hot dogs and parking triple. And the team is still going nowhere.
Is that "parity" what's best for baseball?
Or would it be better for MLB to force Sherman to sell to an owner willing to invest in the team?
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@LHUBison58_XBL said in Bryce Harper:
I’m a pirates fan, yes I know our owner is cheap, yes I agree with a lot of those points. However, there is zero chance of Pittsburgh consistently being able to field a winning team in this system. Maybe that’s cool if you are on one of the coasts but for the rest of us all hope is typically gone by the 4th of July. Again, why are you afraid of a salary cap? Seems like you have nothing to be afraid of if you’re a big market team fan. Or is the fear of losing the inherent advantages that you exploit that great?
Isn't it fair to say the reason Pittsburgh is having difficulty competing is their lack of developing the players in their own system? They had some pretty good pitchers recently come up and not performed. Look at Cole, Tallon, Glasnow, traded for Musgrove. Liriano performed well. They traded Baz. The same issue on offense. They drafted a bunch of players who just never panned out.
They were a playoff team in 2014 and 2015 under Clint Hurdle, and he was often criticized in Pittsburgh for being too rough. I think it's also fair to say Bob Nutting treats the pirates as a business, as long as he is making money its ok for him.
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@samguenther1987_PSN said in Bryce Harper:
Harper well not being completely right (probably shouldn't have yelled at Manfred)
Harper and other players are angry that Manfred wants to implement a salary cap, so of course the players are against that. Manfred should have known he wouldn't be welcome in a MLB teams clubhouse.
Right or wrong here may not matter. The ownership group may in-fact lock the players out before a new negotiation ever happens. Why have a salary cap when you already have a luxury tax threshold and revenue sharing? MLB revenue for 2024 hit a record of 12.1 billion(see Forbes.com). Let's hold the teams receiving the bulk share accountable to put it back into their payroll.
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@squishiesgirl_MLBTS yep and the last one was 30 years ago; only lockouts since
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@yankblan_PSN yeah just found it odd to use a NHL reference as context
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I don't know how it would possibly work but I would love to see the revenue sharing structure go towards teams trying to keep homegrown players.
Skenes is the obvious example. Find ways to keep these guys where they started instead of going to Dodgers/Yankees/Mets etc
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@Wilbs715_XBL I agree with you. I’m not saying the cap system will make every team a winner, nor should it. It’s about putting all teams in a collective even playing field in terms of economics. The Pirates have made terrible development of hitters, and haven’t had a singular Latin American success story in nearly a decade. That is
on them and their program. At the same time they have no margin for error, they can’t spend their way out of a mistake like the Coastal teams can.
I recognize and admit that. In the NFL you have the Browns. They get in their own way more often than not. But they always have hope. Pittsburgh, and many other teams, have zero hope by the 4th of July.
