Jackson Merrill
-
@Ericulous1_PSN said in Jackson Merrill:
It just feels weird to give an award to a guy who has played in like 10% of his team’s games. But that is the crux of a starting pitcher vs position player argument.
If the argument of "who is more valuable, the starting pitcher who goes once every 5 days or the everyday player?", 99% of the time the every day player is going to win that argument.
If you look at career WAR, only 2 of the Top 10 are pitchers and only 6 of the Top 20. In the 2024 rankings, only 2 of the Top 10 are pitchers (3 if you include Ohtani, but...)
So yeah, it's very very rare for a pitcher to be more valuable than a position player.
Skenes is that rare...
-
Another game winning hit from the rookie.
-
@GoozeFn_PSN said in Jackson Merrill:
@SaveFarris_PSN And that’s why it won’t happen. Voting has devolved into a catch all stat. No context necessary.
It's not that simple
War numbers
Masyn Winn - 3.9
Paul Skenes - 4.0
Jackson Merrill - 3.4Winn will get some votes for ROY but if it was only based on stats like WAR then he would come in above Merrill in the voting which won't happen. Merrill gets almost all of his war from Offense, Winn is a little more balanced between offense and defense and Skenes obviously gets his from pitching. Is it fair that Winn will get discounted because his more of his WAR total comes from his Defense than Merrill's. Probably not but it is what it is.
I have nothing against Merrill and if SDS wants to give him a 99 card for his achievements then I have no problem with that.
But they all have valid claims of being a deserving ROY, however the voting may go.
-
@Dolenz_PSN Good points. I just fundamentally have issues with WAR and think there too big an emphasis on it.
-
Definitely. All the new metrics have their place but there's something to be said for the basics too. It's really disappointing when a guy hits over .300 one year and is out of the league the next because of underlying metrics. You can't convince me that he doesn't have more value than rotating through multiple players hitting .215 or some such.
-
As much as I think some advanced stats have a place...way too much importance is placed on most of them. It used to be "see the ball, hit the ball", now advanced stats have turned it into "How well can he see the ball in day games in August when the temp is below 85 degrees when facing a lefty from Venezuela who's FB is 98 mph?"
BA(all three of overall, vs Lefties, and vs Righties), OBP, RBI, H, RISP, BARO(average with runners on) and SLG should really be the ones that carry the most weight for hitters. Pitchers I give a little more leeway with regarding advanced stats...but ERA, Runners/9, Flyball rate, WHIP, K/9, BA Against, and WAR should be heaviest for pitchers...but that's just my opinion
-
I say take rbi out of the equation. It's too reliant on outside factors. Are other players getting on base before you? Do you bat 1st or 4th.
Hits. Do you get a ton of walks? Then your hit total is affected. Even Average is not always a great indicator. Is a player who hits .330 but mainly hits singles more valuable than a player who hits .280 but cranks out 30 or 40 Hrs?
The BARO you mentioned seemed like a better metric
-
@Dolenz64_XBL A better way to do it could be average with runners in scoring position. That way it doesn’t matter where they hit in the order or how often they get those opportunities.
-
@GoozeFn_PSN said in Jackson Merrill:
@Dolenz64_XBL A better way to do it could be average with runners in scoring
This is gonna come across more d1ckish than intended, but that's exactly what RISP is, average with Runners In Scoring Position
-
@Dolenz64_XBL said in Jackson Merrill:
Hits. Do you get a ton of walks? Then your hit total is affected. Even Average is not always a great indicator. Is a player who hits .330 but mainly hits singles more valuable than a player who hits .280 but cranks out 30 or 40 Hrs?
But to be fair, isn't that the job of guys hitting at the top of the lineup? Get on base for the boppers coming in behind them? That's where I suppose Runs scored would be a better metric for leadoff guys. Maybe OBP and Runs, and Average. If he's hitting mainly singles but getting knocked in by the .280 guy hitting 40 HR, he's creating runs by being on base
The BARO you mentioned seemed like a better metric
I'm not even sure it's a real one to be honest, it's one I know I tracked with my hardball team last year, we nicknamed it the "clutch average"
-
@Sarge1387_PSN I wasn’t responding to you and I was suggesting clutch being avg with runners in scoring position rather than RBI, so yeah it does come off that way.
-
@GoozeFn_PSN said in Jackson Merrill:
@Sarge1387_PSN I wasn’t responding to you and I was suggesting clutch being avg with runners in scoring position rather than RBI, so yeah it does come off that way.
It wasn't intentional. Your comment also came across like you had no [censored] clue what you were talking about, so my reply was intended to be educating. Apologies for that.
-
I’ll never quite understand why RBIs are discounted now. Yes there are variables that one can’t control much like just about every stat that exists. If you walk a lot, it could be because of who hits behind you. If you score a lot, same thing.
The name of the game is scoring runs, if you’re the guy who knocks the most in, you deserve some recognition. Now it’s certainly not the most important stat but there is a reason why most of the top hitters in history also happen to be in the top 10 in RBIs (Hank, Pujols, Ruth, Gehrig, Bonds, Cobb, Musial etc) It’s not a fluke to continually produce with guys on base. And when they aren’t on base, you knock yourself in. See Judge, Soto, Ohtani. To me the ultimate example of this in my lifetime is Pujols (coincidentally the 2nd best run producer in the history of baseball).
Now of course the argument can be made that if you have no offense around you, your RBIs won’t be as high. Well that’s why there are several other stats that carry weight.
-
@Sarge1387_PSN It sounds like it was a reading comprehension problem on your end.
-
@GoozeFn_PSN said in Jackson Merrill:
@Sarge1387_PSN It sounds like it was a reading comprehension problem on your end.
Whatever helps you sleep at night, I suppose
-
@Sarge1387_PSN Well, you thought I was talking about something you said when I was clearly responding to someone else. Maybe make sure you know what you’re talking about before you unnecessarily put people down and embarrass yourself.
-
Alright let’s all calm down. Jackson Merrill would not approve
-
Everytime I see the title of this thread; I think if I open it someone will try to help me with my 401k and investment portfolio.
-
@Ericulous1_PSN Jackson Merrill needs to go diamond.
-
I still think its crazy that Senga didnt get one vote for RoY last year, but thats probably more because he was a veteran of Japan. Skenes is better than Senga and merril is slightly 'less good' than Carroll, but if the vote was had today I would suspect Skenes gets 25 or so first place votes and Jackson gets 5
A large part of Winn's WAR is tied to his defense, and thats the shakiest part of WAR by far. SS in particular can be really swayed by this. Ozzie Smith has a higher career WAR than Derek Jeter for example in 200 less games. Jeter's oWAR is more than double Ozzie's.
