Crime Dog marks his territory in Cooperstown!
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@dap1234567890 said in Crime Dog marks his territory in Cooperstown!:
Great to see him get that call finally!
I am surprised that Donnie Baseball still hasn't got the votes.
I agree it is strange that Mattingly is not in there. I know he doesn’t have any rings unlike all of the other Yankees in there, but that is not on him.
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@MarinerMatt01 said in Crime Dog marks his territory in Cooperstown!:
Great to see Crime Dog in the Hall. Wish more had been voted in today, but will take Fred McGriff.
I read an article that actually convinced me that Roger Clemens was telling the truth about not using PEDs. Since he was such a dominating pitcher since he was a rookie, he deserved to be in the HOF.
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Why not Lou Whitaker? There's the real crime, dog. Stacks up with 90% of second basemen in the hall.
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@brainfreeze442 said in Crime Dog marks his territory in Cooperstown!:
@MarinerMatt01 said in Crime Dog marks his territory in Cooperstown!:
Great to see Crime Dog in the Hall. Wish more had been voted in today, but will take Fred McGriff.
I read an article that actually convinced me that Roger Clemens was telling the truth about not using PEDs. Since he was such a dominating pitcher since he was a rookie, he deserved to be in the HOF.
i think he was on them, but don't care. Him and Bonds should be in because they were worthy well before they touched PED
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@Crimson_Monk_PSN said in Crime Dog marks his territory in Cooperstown!:
@brainfreeze442 said in Crime Dog marks his territory in Cooperstown!:
@MarinerMatt01 said in Crime Dog marks his territory in Cooperstown!:
Great to see Crime Dog in the Hall. Wish more had been voted in today, but will take Fred McGriff.
I read an article that actually convinced me that Roger Clemens was telling the truth about not using PEDs. Since he was such a dominating pitcher since he was a rookie, he deserved to be in the HOF.
i think he was on them, but don't care. Him and Bonds should be in because they were worthy well before they touched PED
I thought Clemens was likely on them too. But there are too many reasons to believe that he was telling the truth, once you do the research it might make you believe him too. It was something I never thought I would do.
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@rageincage007_XBL said in Crime Dog marks his territory in Cooperstown!:
Why not Lou Whitaker? There's the real crime, dog. Stacks up with 90% of second basemen in the hall.
That’s a very good question. Whitaker wasn't even on the ballot for some reason. The only players being considered were McGriff, Mattingly, Schilling, Palmeiro, Dale Murphy, Bonds, Clemens, and Albert Belle.
I just checked Whitaker’s baseball reference page and I didn’t realize he was THAT good. I'm not a die-hard fanatic of WAR, but shouldn’t anyone with 75+ WAR already be in the Hall? Aside from PED guys, I bet he’s near the very top of all-time WAR for non-HOF guys.
EDIT: OK, I've been doing some reading and I am even more surprised that Whitaker isn't in the HoF. Here are the only players ahead of him in career WAR who aren't in the Hall.
Bonds (162.8) -- association with PEDs
Clemens (139.2) -- association with PEDs
ARod (117.6) -- association with JLo
Pujols (101.6) -- not yet eligible
Beltre (93.5) -- not yet eligible
Trout (82.4) -- not yet eligible
Pete Rose (79.6) -- gambled on that haircut, lost miserably
Curt Schilling (79.5) -- lol
Verlander (77.6) -- not yet eligible
Greinke (76.5) -- not yet eligible
Jim McCormick (76.2) -- pre-Dead Ball era guy (1878-87) I've never heard of; very impressive mustache
Clayton Kershaw (75.9) -- not yet eligible
Bill Dahlen (75.2) -- Dead Ball era (91-11) guy I've never heard of, made the bold choice of going mustache-less in a mustache-ful era.
Lou Whitaker (75.1)Taking out the active and not-yet-eligible players, it's really just two relatively obscure turn-of-the-century guys and a bunch of players who can't/won't ever be voted in.
There are only 20 primary second basemen in the Hall of Fame. Of those 20, a total of 14 are behind him in Career WAR.
Frankie Frisch (71.8)
Ryne Sandberg (68.0)
Roberto Alomar (67.0)
Craig Biggio (65.5)
Jackie Robinson (63.8)
Billy Herman (57.3)
Joe Gordon (55.8)
Bid McPhee (52.5)
Bobby Doerr (51.5)
Nellie Fox (49.5)
Johnny Evers (47.7)
Tony Lazzeri (47.6)
Red Schoendienst (44.5)
Bill Mazeroski (36.5)There are only six ahead of him, and they are all super legend inner-circle guys:
Rogers Hornsby (127.3)
Eddie Collins (124.4)
Nap Lajoie (106.9)
Joe Morgan (100.4)
Charlie Gehringer (84.8)
Rod Carew (81.2)I can't say I fully 100% understand exactly how WAR is calculated, so I don't know if he seems overvalued (or undervalued?) according to that statistic. He doesn't have any of the near-auto induction counting stats (he has 2368 hits, 244 homers, 143 stolen bases, etc), so I guess a lot of his value came from defense? Players who are known primarily for their glove are sorta hit-and-miss with HoF voters (Ozzie Smith is in, but Torii Hunter, Keith Hernandez, and Andruw Jones aren't?).
I'm a little disappointed he wasn't given another shot on the Veterans Committee ballot this year. If they set a cap at 8 players, I can easily think of a few who could have been bumped. Did anyone actually expect Albert Belle or Dale Murphy would be voted in?
Anyway, that was a fun tangent. I'm on Team Whitaker next time the Veterans Committee votes on the Modern Era (I guess three years?)
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@brainfreeze442 said in Crime Dog marks his territory in Cooperstown!:
@MarinerMatt01 said in Crime Dog marks his territory in Cooperstown!:
Great to see Crime Dog in the Hall. Wish more had been voted in today, but will take Fred McGriff.
I read an article that actually convinced me that Roger Clemens was telling the truth about not using PEDs. Since he was such a dominating pitcher since he was a rookie, he deserved to be in the HOF.
First of all, I would never condone the use of steriods or any substance that would cause long term detrimental health issue. I guess what I find amusing about the whole PED debate is that MLB was actaully ok with the use of PEDs. So they profitted off of players increasing the level of play and then cashed in with merchandise and ticket sales. Then players get caught and have to answer to Congress and MLB is just like we knew nothing and lets thow the players under the bus. SInce the begging of sport (any kind of sport) athletes have always tried to find a leg up. Pitchers have been using sticky stuff since 1900, stealing signs has been done for decades but we turn into the morality police when it comes to steriods. You also cant tell me more modern players arent doping or illegal supplementing, they are just getting smarter about hiding it.
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I would never condone spitting in an umpires face, yet........there's Alomar
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@mubby_33_PSN said in Crime Dog marks his territory in Cooperstown!:
@brainfreeze442 said in Crime Dog marks his territory in Cooperstown!:
@MarinerMatt01 said in Crime Dog marks his territory in Cooperstown!:
Great to see Crime Dog in the Hall. Wish more had been voted in today, but will take Fred McGriff.
I read an article that actually convinced me that Roger Clemens was telling the truth about not using PEDs. Since he was such a dominating pitcher since he was a rookie, he deserved to be in the HOF.
First of all, I would never condone the use of steriods or any substance that would cause long term detrimental health issue. I guess what I find amusing about the whole PED debate is that MLB was actaully ok with the use of PEDs. So they profitted off of players increasing the level of play and then cashed in with merchandise and ticket sales. Then players get caught and have to answer to Congress and MLB is just like we knew nothing and lets thow the players under the bus. SInce the begging of sport (any kind of sport) athletes have always tried to find a leg up. Pitchers have been using sticky stuff since 1900, stealing signs has been done for decades but we turn into the morality police when it comes to steriods. You also cant tell me more modern players arent doping or illegal supplementing, they are just getting smarter about hiding it.
I agree with you. It must have been a different thread, but I made a similar post about MLB looking the other way because the HR chase brought in fans. They needed to since they lost some because of the strike in 1994.
As for stealing signs, of course it was done, and is allowed in MLB games. The use of electronics to get them is breaking rules.
Clemens was never subpoenaed to speak in front of congress. He went up and said that no matter what he says or what happens that day, he will never be disconnected from the PED issue. He went on to state that he never used PEDs. Now, why would he go up and risk perjury when he didn’t have to say anything? He could have made the same point in the media.
As for players today, I am sure players are using them. Didn’t Tatis get suspended for It? Like you said, they likely have chemists making PEDs that are undetectable by today’s testing. -
Hooray! Fred McGriff. A lifetime 280 hitter with under 500 HR and 47th among lifetime RBI leaders, zero MVP and zero gold glove. HOF means nothing now.
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True, he had under 500 home runs — but he retired with a total of 493. He could have stuck around one more year to play part time and pad his stats, but he didn’t. I respect that. And you’re right, he never won an MVP, but he was in the top 10 six times.
He was a [censored] good hitter, and remember, he did a lot of his damage in the late 80s and early 90s before the whole league was juiced and jacked out of their minds. He led the league with 36 HRs in 1989 and then again with 35 HRs in 1992. His best years were before the steroid era when scrubs were regularly hitting 40 or even 50 HR in a year. Gotta look at the time he played and how he stacked against his contemporaries. And I think he fared quite well against late 80s/early 90s sluggers.
52.5 career WAR. Lifetime 134 OPS+. Lifetime .509 slugging. And 47th lifetime RBI is nothing to sneeze at either, considering there have been over 11,000 position players in the history of the MLB. He’s in the top 0.4% of all time. If that “means nothing” then I don’t know who belongs in the hall.
Is he Jimmie Foxx or Willie Mays or Josh Gibson? No. But he’s a Hall of Famer — unanimously voted in by guys who played with and against him. If Frank Thomas, Greg Maddux, Lee Smith, Ryne Sandberg, Jack Morris, and Alan Trammell all agree he belongs there, then I’ll take their word for it.
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