It's Time to Reign in Flipping
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@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@ladyswampfox_xbl said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@ladyswampfox_xbl said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@samguenther1987 said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@ladyswampfox_xbl said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@ladyswampfox_xbl said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
Let's begin with the obvious: flipping in MLB the Show takes less than 2 active brain cells AND this is a baseball game not a stock market simulation.
Flipping in the show is only possible because the market in incredibly inefficient allowing for never ending arbitrage scenarios that never close like they should in a normally functioning market. In the past, flipping in the show was very time consuming due to the input mechanisms and thus limited its adoption and abuse by most customers, however, the MLBtS app has changed this dynamic and enables what amounts to market manipulation (whether intentional or not) by the flipper community.
Why does flipping need to be reigned in now? Because the flippers drastically inflate prices on desired cards making them harder to obtain for the majority of customers AND cost SDS money because those same high prices drastically reduce impulse stub purchases. This problem only really became an issue with the app.
Fixing flipping is pretty easy and requires very little programming. 1) limit the purchase of flashback and legend cards to 1 each (once you own a card you cannot buy additonal copies, but could still ear/open them), 2) scale the tax to sales (ie first 20 sales a day are at 10%, next 20 are at 20%, and so on), 3) limit purchases of all other cards to 20 (again can still open/earn more) of golds and lower and 10 each to diamonds. Those 3 limits would prevent flippers from ruining the market for the majority of the community that just wants to play baseball.
And yes, anyone can flip (I made over 12 million stubs from the Friday after Thanksgiving through the Sunday on my alt account last year). It is literally ruining the market.
Oh, I see what it is. You just like micro transactions and shelling out money to game devs. You know that the rest of us aren't with you on that, right? Have heard of Star Wars: Battlefront 2 and other microtransaction-heavy games?
SDS ought to be commended for not making us buy more beyond the initial purchase of the game. They know that at the end of the day, we buy their game to play baseball.
Any gamer who has enough sense doesn't want to pay more than the $60 price tag for a game, given the state of the industry. If you wanna pay money to buy stubs directly since you hate flipping that much, go right ahead. We won't stop you.
What you're proposing would ruin the market, not the flipping that has been going on in a healthy market. And it would kill the game.
Have a good day, sir.
You really don’t have a clue.
- Yes, SDS should be commended for making a game with such great content that you don’t need micro transactions OR flipping to get nearly every card.
- what I proposed would absolutely not “ruin” the market, it would actually make it healthier and keep prices lower on limited cards, thus making the tons of stubs SDS hands out for free all year more valuable to everyone
- The fact that you can flip (and not only flip, but do it almost instantly with no risk) shows just how unhealthy the market is. In a healthy market, there would be no spreads to flip. Take an Econ class, it will do you good.
- How exactly would my proposal “kill the game”? The game wouldn’t change at all AND since SDS gives out content like candy at Halloween for just playing the game it would merely make that content more accessible for everyone, not just the flippers.
No, you really don't have a clue. What you're proposing would slow the market to a halt more or less. If people can only make so many transactions, then the market would die. A healthy market is a market that MOVES and fluctuates, not one that stays stagnant, which is the state the market would be in if anyone was foolish enough to listen to you.
I believe a few years ago you could only make about 80 transactions or something like that (someone might have a better memory then me) and if none of them cleared you couldn't do any more. I love that it's unlimited now. The market moves so quickly most of the time.
I agree complete with what your saying.
No where did I suggest limiting the number of transactions one could place. And the market still moved extremely quick even when it was limited (and I am pretty sure the limit was 20 believe it or not). Flipping only works because the market is inefficient, in an efficient market (like the actual stock market per se), flipping doesn’t work (I am talking flipping, not day trading). The fact that spreads are consistently far greater than the tax proves the market isn’t efficien
Here’s a suggestion for you, when you get to college, take a couple Econ classes.
you neglect the fact that high frequency traders, which in this case are the exact equivalent of flippers, make the markets gasp MORE EFFICIENT. by taking advantage of price disparities they move the market more towards the equilibrium point, which LOWERS the spread. sure you might have to put in a slightly higher buy order to get fulfilled, but it happens quicker, at a more fair market rate.
Go back to college and learn something from your econ classes.
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@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@ladyswampfox_xbl said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@ladyswampfox_xbl said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@samguenther1987 said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@ladyswampfox_xbl said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@ladyswampfox_xbl said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
Let's begin with the obvious: flipping in MLB the Show takes less than 2 active brain cells AND this is a baseball game not a stock market simulation.
Flipping in the show is only possible because the market in incredibly inefficient allowing for never ending arbitrage scenarios that never close like they should in a normally functioning market. In the past, flipping in the show was very time consuming due to the input mechanisms and thus limited its adoption and abuse by most customers, however, the MLBtS app has changed this dynamic and enables what amounts to market manipulation (whether intentional or not) by the flipper community.
Why does flipping need to be reigned in now? Because the flippers drastically inflate prices on desired cards making them harder to obtain for the majority of customers AND cost SDS money because those same high prices drastically reduce impulse stub purchases. This problem only really became an issue with the app.
Fixing flipping is pretty easy and requires very little programming. 1) limit the purchase of flashback and legend cards to 1 each (once you own a card you cannot buy additonal copies, but could still ear/open them), 2) scale the tax to sales (ie first 20 sales a day are at 10%, next 20 are at 20%, and so on), 3) limit purchases of all other cards to 20 (again can still open/earn more) of golds and lower and 10 each to diamonds. Those 3 limits would prevent flippers from ruining the market for the majority of the community that just wants to play baseball.
And yes, anyone can flip (I made over 12 million stubs from the Friday after Thanksgiving through the Sunday on my alt account last year). It is literally ruining the market.
Oh, I see what it is. You just like micro transactions and shelling out money to game devs. You know that the rest of us aren't with you on that, right? Have heard of Star Wars: Battlefront 2 and other microtransaction-heavy games?
SDS ought to be commended for not making us buy more beyond the initial purchase of the game. They know that at the end of the day, we buy their game to play baseball.
Any gamer who has enough sense doesn't want to pay more than the $60 price tag for a game, given the state of the industry. If you wanna pay money to buy stubs directly since you hate flipping that much, go right ahead. We won't stop you.
What you're proposing would ruin the market, not the flipping that has been going on in a healthy market. And it would kill the game.
Have a good day, sir.
You really don’t have a clue.
- Yes, SDS should be commended for making a game with such great content that you don’t need micro transactions OR flipping to get nearly every card.
- what I proposed would absolutely not “ruin” the market, it would actually make it healthier and keep prices lower on limited cards, thus making the tons of stubs SDS hands out for free all year more valuable to everyone
- The fact that you can flip (and not only flip, but do it almost instantly with no risk) shows just how unhealthy the market is. In a healthy market, there would be no spreads to flip. Take an Econ class, it will do you good.
- How exactly would my proposal “kill the game”? The game wouldn’t change at all AND since SDS gives out content like candy at Halloween for just playing the game it would merely make that content more accessible for everyone, not just the flippers.
No, you really don't have a clue. What you're proposing would slow the market to a halt more or less. If people can only make so many transactions, then the market would die. A healthy market is a market that MOVES and fluctuates, not one that stays stagnant, which is the state the market would be in if anyone was foolish enough to listen to you.
I believe a few years ago you could only make about 80 transactions or something like that (someone might have a better memory then me) and if none of them cleared you couldn't do any more. I love that it's unlimited now. The market moves so quickly most of the time.
I agree complete with what your saying.
No where did I suggest limiting the number of transactions one could place. And the market still moved extremely quick even when it was limited (and I am pretty sure the limit was 20 believe it or not). Flipping only works because the market is inefficient, in an efficient market (like the actual stock market per se), flipping doesn’t work (I am talking flipping, not day trading). The fact that spreads are consistently far greater than the tax proves the market isn’t efficient.
Whatever you want to call the market that you're envisioning, it wouldn't work. 20 is not a big number at all and it would freeze the market. You know what laissez-faire is right? When you don't mess with the market (and your proposals certainly would), it flourishes. There might be ups and downs, sure, but that's just how it goes.
Stop being a Karen and trying to ruin the game for everyone else. Flipping will remain as it is whether you like it or not because the majority of players like it the way it is. Don't like it? That's your problem.
Here’s where you don’t get it: I wasn’t suggesting a cap on number of trades, but pointing out that it USED to be 20 AND the market still moved fine.
Also, the suggestions I had would neither ruin the game, nor do the “majority” necessarily like it the way it is. How do we know, because of the majority (or even more than probably 3-5%) of the customer base flipped, there would be no margins to flip. It’s a baseball game (with amazing free content), try playing baseball.
You were suggesting limits that would've crippled the market. Also, you missed my earlier post about people (including me) buy this game to play baseball, and I do play baseball on here. Flipping is just a side thing I like to do because I don't like using money to acquire stubs.
Again, if you don't like how the market is, don't play the market or the game.
And again, you don’t need to spend a nickel (or flip) to get virtually every card in the game. SDS makes the content easily available.
As to the other point, I will make any suggestions I want to improve the quality of the game.
Here’s a suggestion for you, when you get to college, take a couple Econ classes.
Well guess what, dumbo? I got a 4.0 in college that I've maintained every semester (I'm in the last semester of my senior year) and have taken economics classes. So you can take your suggestion and shove it.
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@mam8a-245300_xbl said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@ladyswampfox_xbl said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@ladyswampfox_xbl said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@samguenther1987 said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@ladyswampfox_xbl said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@ladyswampfox_xbl said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
Let's begin with the obvious: flipping in MLB the Show takes less than 2 active brain cells AND this is a baseball game not a stock market simulation.
Flipping in the show is only possible because the market in incredibly inefficient allowing for never ending arbitrage scenarios that never close like they should in a normally functioning market. In the past, flipping in the show was very time consuming due to the input mechanisms and thus limited its adoption and abuse by most customers, however, the MLBtS app has changed this dynamic and enables what amounts to market manipulation (whether intentional or not) by the flipper community.
Why does flipping need to be reigned in now? Because the flippers drastically inflate prices on desired cards making them harder to obtain for the majority of customers AND cost SDS money because those same high prices drastically reduce impulse stub purchases. This problem only really became an issue with the app.
Fixing flipping is pretty easy and requires very little programming. 1) limit the purchase of flashback and legend cards to 1 each (once you own a card you cannot buy additonal copies, but could still ear/open them), 2) scale the tax to sales (ie first 20 sales a day are at 10%, next 20 are at 20%, and so on), 3) limit purchases of all other cards to 20 (again can still open/earn more) of golds and lower and 10 each to diamonds. Those 3 limits would prevent flippers from ruining the market for the majority of the community that just wants to play baseball.
And yes, anyone can flip (I made over 12 million stubs from the Friday after Thanksgiving through the Sunday on my alt account last year). It is literally ruining the market.
Oh, I see what it is. You just like micro transactions and shelling out money to game devs. You know that the rest of us aren't with you on that, right? Have heard of Star Wars: Battlefront 2 and other microtransaction-heavy games?
SDS ought to be commended for not making us buy more beyond the initial purchase of the game. They know that at the end of the day, we buy their game to play baseball.
Any gamer who has enough sense doesn't want to pay more than the $60 price tag for a game, given the state of the industry. If you wanna pay money to buy stubs directly since you hate flipping that much, go right ahead. We won't stop you.
What you're proposing would ruin the market, not the flipping that has been going on in a healthy market. And it would kill the game.
Have a good day, sir.
You really don’t have a clue.
- Yes, SDS should be commended for making a game with such great content that you don’t need micro transactions OR flipping to get nearly every card.
- what I proposed would absolutely not “ruin” the market, it would actually make it healthier and keep prices lower on limited cards, thus making the tons of stubs SDS hands out for free all year more valuable to everyone
- The fact that you can flip (and not only flip, but do it almost instantly with no risk) shows just how unhealthy the market is. In a healthy market, there would be no spreads to flip. Take an Econ class, it will do you good.
- How exactly would my proposal “kill the game”? The game wouldn’t change at all AND since SDS gives out content like candy at Halloween for just playing the game it would merely make that content more accessible for everyone, not just the flippers.
No, you really don't have a clue. What you're proposing would slow the market to a halt more or less. If people can only make so many transactions, then the market would die. A healthy market is a market that MOVES and fluctuates, not one that stays stagnant, which is the state the market would be in if anyone was foolish enough to listen to you.
I believe a few years ago you could only make about 80 transactions or something like that (someone might have a better memory then me) and if none of them cleared you couldn't do any more. I love that it's unlimited now. The market moves so quickly most of the time.
I agree complete with what your saying.
No where did I suggest limiting the number of transactions one could place. And the market still moved extremely quick even when it was limited (and I am pretty sure the limit was 20 believe it or not). Flipping only works because the market is inefficient, in an efficient market (like the actual stock market per se), flipping doesn’t work (I am talking flipping, not day trading). The fact that spreads are consistently far greater than the tax proves the market isn’t efficien
Here’s a suggestion for you, when you get to college, take a couple Econ classes.
you neglect the fact that high frequency traders, which in this case are the exact equivalent of flippers, make the markets gasp MORE EFFICIENT. by taking advantage of price disparities they move the market more towards the equilibrium point, which LOWERS the spread. sure you might have to put in a slightly higher buy order to get fulfilled, but it happens quicker, at a more fair market rate.
Go back to college and learn something from your econ classes.
Slightly more efficient and actually efficient are two completely different things. The market in the show is incredibly inefficient regardless of flipping (the inefficiency is exactly what permits flipping in the first place). And again, I would trade slightly less efficient markets for the things flipped (LS golds, perks, equipment, etc) for much lower overall prices of the cards people actually want (or legends and flashbacks).
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@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@mam8a-245300_xbl said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@ladyswampfox_xbl said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@ladyswampfox_xbl said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@samguenther1987 said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@ladyswampfox_xbl said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@ladyswampfox_xbl said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
Let's begin with the obvious: flipping in MLB the Show takes less than 2 active brain cells AND this is a baseball game not a stock market simulation.
Flipping in the show is only possible because the market in incredibly inefficient allowing for never ending arbitrage scenarios that never close like they should in a normally functioning market. In the past, flipping in the show was very time consuming due to the input mechanisms and thus limited its adoption and abuse by most customers, however, the MLBtS app has changed this dynamic and enables what amounts to market manipulation (whether intentional or not) by the flipper community.
Why does flipping need to be reigned in now? Because the flippers drastically inflate prices on desired cards making them harder to obtain for the majority of customers AND cost SDS money because those same high prices drastically reduce impulse stub purchases. This problem only really became an issue with the app.
Fixing flipping is pretty easy and requires very little programming. 1) limit the purchase of flashback and legend cards to 1 each (once you own a card you cannot buy additonal copies, but could still ear/open them), 2) scale the tax to sales (ie first 20 sales a day are at 10%, next 20 are at 20%, and so on), 3) limit purchases of all other cards to 20 (again can still open/earn more) of golds and lower and 10 each to diamonds. Those 3 limits would prevent flippers from ruining the market for the majority of the community that just wants to play baseball.
And yes, anyone can flip (I made over 12 million stubs from the Friday after Thanksgiving through the Sunday on my alt account last year). It is literally ruining the market.
Oh, I see what it is. You just like micro transactions and shelling out money to game devs. You know that the rest of us aren't with you on that, right? Have heard of Star Wars: Battlefront 2 and other microtransaction-heavy games?
SDS ought to be commended for not making us buy more beyond the initial purchase of the game. They know that at the end of the day, we buy their game to play baseball.
Any gamer who has enough sense doesn't want to pay more than the $60 price tag for a game, given the state of the industry. If you wanna pay money to buy stubs directly since you hate flipping that much, go right ahead. We won't stop you.
What you're proposing would ruin the market, not the flipping that has been going on in a healthy market. And it would kill the game.
Have a good day, sir.
You really don’t have a clue.
- Yes, SDS should be commended for making a game with such great content that you don’t need micro transactions OR flipping to get nearly every card.
- what I proposed would absolutely not “ruin” the market, it would actually make it healthier and keep prices lower on limited cards, thus making the tons of stubs SDS hands out for free all year more valuable to everyone
- The fact that you can flip (and not only flip, but do it almost instantly with no risk) shows just how unhealthy the market is. In a healthy market, there would be no spreads to flip. Take an Econ class, it will do you good.
- How exactly would my proposal “kill the game”? The game wouldn’t change at all AND since SDS gives out content like candy at Halloween for just playing the game it would merely make that content more accessible for everyone, not just the flippers.
No, you really don't have a clue. What you're proposing would slow the market to a halt more or less. If people can only make so many transactions, then the market would die. A healthy market is a market that MOVES and fluctuates, not one that stays stagnant, which is the state the market would be in if anyone was foolish enough to listen to you.
I believe a few years ago you could only make about 80 transactions or something like that (someone might have a better memory then me) and if none of them cleared you couldn't do any more. I love that it's unlimited now. The market moves so quickly most of the time.
I agree complete with what your saying.
No where did I suggest limiting the number of transactions one could place. And the market still moved extremely quick even when it was limited (and I am pretty sure the limit was 20 believe it or not). Flipping only works because the market is inefficient, in an efficient market (like the actual stock market per se), flipping doesn’t work (I am talking flipping, not day trading). The fact that spreads are consistently far greater than the tax proves the market isn’t efficien
Here’s a suggestion for you, when you get to college, take a couple Econ classes.
you neglect the fact that high frequency traders, which in this case are the exact equivalent of flippers, make the markets gasp MORE EFFICIENT. by taking advantage of price disparities they move the market more towards the equilibrium point, which LOWERS the spread. sure you might have to put in a slightly higher buy order to get fulfilled, but it happens quicker, at a more fair market rate.
Go back to college and learn something from your econ classes.
Slightly more efficient and actually efficient are two completely different things. The market in the show is incredibly inefficient regardless of flipping (the inefficiency is exactly what permits flipping in the first place). And again, I would trade slightly less efficient markets for the things flipped (LS golds, perks, equipment, etc) for much lower overall prices of the cards people actually want (or legends and flashbacks).
the only way to do that is to remove the bid ask spread altogether and move towards an auction house like EA uses, which is incredibly inefficient and has more egregious deviance from the market rate with snipes and time constraints. Volume flipping also has the benefit of removing stubs from the market place from repeatedly taxing the transactions.
the stock market is only as efficient as it is because marketmakers are well funded enough to take on any sale because they can easily hedge and pretty reliably collect money on the spread when they close the transaction.
what does your ideal marketplace setup look like then if you think it can be done more efficiently?
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Haven't flipped in years. They basically give away the LS collection via Team Affinity now.
Having patience in this game pays big. Maybe I get a card a week later than everyone else. So what.
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@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
And again, I would trade slightly less efficient markets for the things flipped (LS golds, perks, equipment, etc) for much lower overall prices of the cards people actually want (or legends and flashbacks).
The only way to do that (assuming you payed attention in that college class you were going on about) is to
A) increase supply
B) lower demandWe've already talking about the supply issue (with Limited Time Only Cards.) That leaves demand. And the only way to lower demand is to get rid of collection rewards, which is a terrible, terrible, terrible idea.
Putting in market controls will only exacerbate, not alleviate, the problem.
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@savefarris_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
And again, I would trade slightly less efficient markets for the things flipped (LS golds, perks, equipment, etc) for much lower overall prices of the cards people actually want (or legends and flashbacks).
The only way to do that (assuming you payed attention in that college class you were going on about) is to
A) increase supply
B) lower demandWe've already talking about the supply issue (with Limited Time Only Cards.) That leaves demand. And the only way to lower demand is to get rid of collection rewards, which is a terrible, terrible, terrible idea.
Putting in market controls will only exacerbate, not alleviate, the problem.
In an efficient market this would be correct, but marketplace in the show isn’t efficient and is already controlled by SDS (to a large extent), which determine scarcity (for instance, SDS deciding how many breakouts are needed for a collection). While there are many ways SDS could increase supply (say putting previous henchmen or event rewind packs in inning programs), that’s not really what is being discussed. On the demand side, they could alleviate some demand pressure by limiting legends and flashback purchases to 1 per person (ie no hoarding or “investing” in those LTO cards). They can also “lower demand” by limiting the ease of stub accumulation through flipping (which is what I was suggesting). The fewer stub multi-millionaires, the lower overall prices will be.
And, while not the point of this thread (and not really an argument I’d make), but the game was fine in 17 and 18 without big collection rewards. I could argue that after 3 straight years they need a break/something new.
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@GradektheBard Got sidetracked a couple of times because the conversation got off on a couple tangents, but I get your point. You originally said it became a real problem with the app. So why not just limit the amount of orders that can be place through that and leave the rest alone?
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@mam8a-245300_xbl said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@GradektheBard Got sidetracked a couple of times because the conversation got off on a couple tangents, but I get your point. You originally said it became a real problem with the app. So why not just limit the amount of orders that can be place through that and leave the rest alone?
That would most likely work, assuming it can be done from a technical side.
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@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@ladyswampfox_xbl said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@ladyswampfox_xbl said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@samguenther1987 said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@ladyswampfox_xbl said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@ladyswampfox_xbl said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
Let's begin with the obvious: flipping in MLB the Show takes less than 2 active brain cells AND this is a baseball game not a stock market simulation.
Flipping in the show is only possible because the market in incredibly inefficient allowing for never ending arbitrage scenarios that never close like they should in a normally functioning market. In the past, flipping in the show was very time consuming due to the input mechanisms and thus limited its adoption and abuse by most customers, however, the MLBtS app has changed this dynamic and enables what amounts to market manipulation (whether intentional or not) by the flipper community.
Why does flipping need to be reigned in now? Because the flippers drastically inflate prices on desired cards making them harder to obtain for the majority of customers AND cost SDS money because those same high prices drastically reduce impulse stub purchases. This problem only really became an issue with the app.
Fixing flipping is pretty easy and requires very little programming. 1) limit the purchase of flashback and legend cards to 1 each (once you own a card you cannot buy additonal copies, but could still ear/open them), 2) scale the tax to sales (ie first 20 sales a day are at 10%, next 20 are at 20%, and so on), 3) limit purchases of all other cards to 20 (again can still open/earn more) of golds and lower and 10 each to diamonds. Those 3 limits would prevent flippers from ruining the market for the majority of the community that just wants to play baseball.
And yes, anyone can flip (I made over 12 million stubs from the Friday after Thanksgiving through the Sunday on my alt account last year). It is literally ruining the market.
Oh, I see what it is. You just like micro transactions and shelling out money to game devs. You know that the rest of us aren't with you on that, right? Have heard of Star Wars: Battlefront 2 and other microtransaction-heavy games?
SDS ought to be commended for not making us buy more beyond the initial purchase of the game. They know that at the end of the day, we buy their game to play baseball.
Any gamer who has enough sense doesn't want to pay more than the $60 price tag for a game, given the state of the industry. If you wanna pay money to buy stubs directly since you hate flipping that much, go right ahead. We won't stop you.
What you're proposing would ruin the market, not the flipping that has been going on in a healthy market. And it would kill the game.
Have a good day, sir.
You really don’t have a clue.
- Yes, SDS should be commended for making a game with such great content that you don’t need micro transactions OR flipping to get nearly every card.
- what I proposed would absolutely not “ruin” the market, it would actually make it healthier and keep prices lower on limited cards, thus making the tons of stubs SDS hands out for free all year more valuable to everyone
- The fact that you can flip (and not only flip, but do it almost instantly with no risk) shows just how unhealthy the market is. In a healthy market, there would be no spreads to flip. Take an Econ class, it will do you good.
- How exactly would my proposal “kill the game”? The game wouldn’t change at all AND since SDS gives out content like candy at Halloween for just playing the game it would merely make that content more accessible for everyone, not just the flippers.
No, you really don't have a clue. What you're proposing would slow the market to a halt more or less. If people can only make so many transactions, then the market would die. A healthy market is a market that MOVES and fluctuates, not one that stays stagnant, which is the state the market would be in if anyone was foolish enough to listen to you.
I believe a few years ago you could only make about 80 transactions or something like that (someone might have a better memory then me) and if none of them cleared you couldn't do any more. I love that it's unlimited now. The market moves so quickly most of the time.
I agree complete with what your saying.
No where did I suggest limiting the number of transactions one could place. And the market still moved extremely quick even when it was limited (and I am pretty sure the limit was 20 believe it or not). Flipping only works because the market is inefficient, in an efficient market (like the actual stock market per se), flipping doesn’t work (I am talking flipping, not day trading). The fact that spreads are consistently far greater than the tax proves the market isn’t efficient.
Whatever you want to call the market that you're envisioning, it wouldn't work. 20 is not a big number at all and it would freeze the market. You know what laissez-faire is right? When you don't mess with the market (and your proposals certainly would), it flourishes. There might be ups and downs, sure, but that's just how it goes.
Stop being a Karen and trying to ruin the game for everyone else. Flipping will remain as it is whether you like it or not because the majority of players like it the way it is. Don't like it? That's your problem.
Here’s where you don’t get it: I wasn’t suggesting a cap on number of trades, but pointing out that it USED to be 20 AND the market still moved fine.
Also, the suggestions I had would neither ruin the game, nor do the “majority” necessarily like it the way it is. How do we know, because of the majority (or even more than probably 3-5%) of the customer base flipped, there would be no margins to flip. It’s a baseball game (with amazing free content), try playing baseball.
You were suggesting limits that would've crippled the market. Also, you missed my earlier post about people (including me) buy this game to play baseball, and I do play baseball on here. Flipping is just a side thing I like to do because I don't like using money to acquire stubs.
Again, if you don't like how the market is, don't play the market or the game.
And again, you don’t need to spend a nickel (or flip) to get virtually every card in the game. SDS makes the content easily available.
As to the other point, I will make any suggestions I want to improve the quality of the game.
Here’s a suggestion for you, when you get to college, take a couple Econ classes.
Not true if you don't play online, like he said he doesn't. A lot of the best, most expensive cards are RS and BR rewards. If you're not grinding online, you would have to flip to get those, I'd think.
Don't have a dog in this fight, really. Just saying.
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@ladyswampfox_xbl said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@ladyswampfox_xbl said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@ladyswampfox_xbl said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@samguenther1987 said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@ladyswampfox_xbl said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@ladyswampfox_xbl said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
Let's begin with the obvious: flipping in MLB the Show takes less than 2 active brain cells AND this is a baseball game not a stock market simulation.
Flipping in the show is only possible because the market in incredibly inefficient allowing for never ending arbitrage scenarios that never close like they should in a normally functioning market. In the past, flipping in the show was very time consuming due to the input mechanisms and thus limited its adoption and abuse by most customers, however, the MLBtS app has changed this dynamic and enables what amounts to market manipulation (whether intentional or not) by the flipper community.
Why does flipping need to be reigned in now? Because the flippers drastically inflate prices on desired cards making them harder to obtain for the majority of customers AND cost SDS money because those same high prices drastically reduce impulse stub purchases. This problem only really became an issue with the app.
Fixing flipping is pretty easy and requires very little programming. 1) limit the purchase of flashback and legend cards to 1 each (once you own a card you cannot buy additonal copies, but could still ear/open them), 2) scale the tax to sales (ie first 20 sales a day are at 10%, next 20 are at 20%, and so on), 3) limit purchases of all other cards to 20 (again can still open/earn more) of golds and lower and 10 each to diamonds. Those 3 limits would prevent flippers from ruining the market for the majority of the community that just wants to play baseball.
And yes, anyone can flip (I made over 12 million stubs from the Friday after Thanksgiving through the Sunday on my alt account last year). It is literally ruining the market.
Oh, I see what it is. You just like micro transactions and shelling out money to game devs. You know that the rest of us aren't with you on that, right? Have heard of Star Wars: Battlefront 2 and other microtransaction-heavy games?
SDS ought to be commended for not making us buy more beyond the initial purchase of the game. They know that at the end of the day, we buy their game to play baseball.
Any gamer who has enough sense doesn't want to pay more than the $60 price tag for a game, given the state of the industry. If you wanna pay money to buy stubs directly since you hate flipping that much, go right ahead. We won't stop you.
What you're proposing would ruin the market, not the flipping that has been going on in a healthy market. And it would kill the game.
Have a good day, sir.
You really don’t have a clue.
- Yes, SDS should be commended for making a game with such great content that you don’t need micro transactions OR flipping to get nearly every card.
- what I proposed would absolutely not “ruin” the market, it would actually make it healthier and keep prices lower on limited cards, thus making the tons of stubs SDS hands out for free all year more valuable to everyone
- The fact that you can flip (and not only flip, but do it almost instantly with no risk) shows just how unhealthy the market is. In a healthy market, there would be no spreads to flip. Take an Econ class, it will do you good.
- How exactly would my proposal “kill the game”? The game wouldn’t change at all AND since SDS gives out content like candy at Halloween for just playing the game it would merely make that content more accessible for everyone, not just the flippers.
No, you really don't have a clue. What you're proposing would slow the market to a halt more or less. If people can only make so many transactions, then the market would die. A healthy market is a market that MOVES and fluctuates, not one that stays stagnant, which is the state the market would be in if anyone was foolish enough to listen to you.
I believe a few years ago you could only make about 80 transactions or something like that (someone might have a better memory then me) and if none of them cleared you couldn't do any more. I love that it's unlimited now. The market moves so quickly most of the time.
I agree complete with what your saying.
No where did I suggest limiting the number of transactions one could place. And the market still moved extremely quick even when it was limited (and I am pretty sure the limit was 20 believe it or not). Flipping only works because the market is inefficient, in an efficient market (like the actual stock market per se), flipping doesn’t work (I am talking flipping, not day trading). The fact that spreads are consistently far greater than the tax proves the market isn’t efficient.
Whatever you want to call the market that you're envisioning, it wouldn't work. 20 is not a big number at all and it would freeze the market. You know what laissez-faire is right? When you don't mess with the market (and your proposals certainly would), it flourishes. There might be ups and downs, sure, but that's just how it goes.
Stop being a Karen and trying to ruin the game for everyone else. Flipping will remain as it is whether you like it or not because the majority of players like it the way it is. Don't like it? That's your problem.
Here’s where you don’t get it: I wasn’t suggesting a cap on number of trades, but pointing out that it USED to be 20 AND the market still moved fine.
Also, the suggestions I had would neither ruin the game, nor do the “majority” necessarily like it the way it is. How do we know, because of the majority (or even more than probably 3-5%) of the customer base flipped, there would be no margins to flip. It’s a baseball game (with amazing free content), try playing baseball.
You were suggesting limits that would've crippled the market. Also, you missed my earlier post about people (including me) buy this game to play baseball, and I do play baseball on here. Flipping is just a side thing I like to do because I don't like using money to acquire stubs.
Again, if you don't like how the market is, don't play the market or the game.
And again, you don’t need to spend a nickel (or flip) to get virtually every card in the game. SDS makes the content easily available.
As to the other point, I will make any suggestions I want to improve the quality of the game.
Here’s a suggestion for you, when you get to college, take a couple Econ classes.
Well guess what, dumbo? I got a 4.0 in college that I've maintained every semester (I'm in the last semester of my senior year) and have taken economics classes. So you can take your suggestion and shove it.
It is pointless to argue. you can not show one who can not see.
( Sorry i just watched the zen episode of SG1). -
As someone who flips, I will say this. I do kind of see the OP's point, but only in regard to the companion app. Flippers didn't cause the million stub waitlists in MLB 20, extreme scarcity and sellable TA inflation did. As for this year, Trea Turner is the only real problem. At least before, even using the website, flipping was still easy, but it was a hassle. There were very few that flipped religiously. The app, while a good thing, definitely needs some tweaks. You should not be able to put in 50 orders in 15 seconds like you can on the app. On the website its place order, wait 20+ seconds for it to load, type in your next order. In game it takes longer to find a card you are looking for. They should absolutely NOT get rid of flipping or only make it so you can have certain limits on certain cards or whatever, but I'm ok with it requiring a bit more patience/knowledge to do effectively
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@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
Yeah killing flipping would be a PR nightmare and would signal to alot of people that SDS intends to move towards more aggressive monetization
I totally disagree. Very few customers flip (we know this because arbitrage wouldn't exist if lots of people did it). It also wouldn't mean more monetization, it would just mean that market prices wouldn't be influenced by flippers and that the stubs you earn in game would be more "valuable".
Here is the thing, all those things "could" be true in a decision by SDS to curb it in, but I didn't write that SDS would be moving to more aggressive monetization, I said people would perceive it as such. It's the internet, people draw conclusions all the time and as I wrote, it would be a PR nightmare
Not if they rolled it out with "market manipulation" data (which I guarantee they have). How many flippers are sitting on multiple copies of highly sought after (expensive) legends and flashbacks? How much are flippers (and their unlimited stubs) driving up prices for everyone else? SDS knows and could easily sell this to the vast majority of the customers under the (correct) guise of limiting market manipulation.
Nope, still wouldn't help. Remember when SDS gave numbers I think in 2020 about averages on perfects etc? People were like "Lol no way anyone is hitting that with perfects"
Again, the difference is everyone hits perfects, but very few people flip (even if they are over represented here). For probably 97%+ of their customers, a message of "we are limiting the market manipulation that has driven up prices with these measures" would be a resounding win.
You underestimate the reach of streamers and content creators. Even if someone has never even flipped, if they hear their content creator crying about how SDS is trying to crack down in "nms" players, they will complain to even if it doesn't actually effect them.
It won't affect sales at all. SDS needs to do what is best for the game and reigning in flipping is in the games' best interest, especially as we add more players/platforms. Far more people are going to complain when the million stub wait lists start by mid May this year than would ever complain from some show streamer who gets like 150 viewers.
They solved the wait list issue, it only popped up at the end of this year when people didn't want to play events. Flipping is always harder in the beginning and is only easy now because who's flipping at this point? No one needs stubs.
Also you can downplay what I've said all you want. (As evidenced by "than would ever complain from some show streamer who gets like 150 viewers."), you know full well there are streamers who get thousands of current viewers on a stream and guys like Koogs has almost 200k subscribers, but go ahead and say "Lol 150 viewer streams"
But you are assuming that all the streamers would complain. I would guess far less than you think would, especially if SDS PR was competent and reached out to some creators prior to rolling this out. Again, reigning in flipping is good for the game and needs to be done even in the face of short term criticism from the flippers.
Also, let me reiterate that this really only became an issue with the App. Prior to that the time requirement acted as its own restraint on flipping.
F$&k the streamers. They're losers who have no life and contribute nothing to society. Who cares what they think? Only a moron cares...
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@schwizzle_nizzle said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
Yeah killing flipping would be a PR nightmare and would signal to alot of people that SDS intends to move towards more aggressive monetization
I totally disagree. Very few customers flip (we know this because arbitrage wouldn't exist if lots of people did it). It also wouldn't mean more monetization, it would just mean that market prices wouldn't be influenced by flippers and that the stubs you earn in game would be more "valuable".
Here is the thing, all those things "could" be true in a decision by SDS to curb it in, but I didn't write that SDS would be moving to more aggressive monetization, I said people would perceive it as such. It's the internet, people draw conclusions all the time and as I wrote, it would be a PR nightmare
Not if they rolled it out with "market manipulation" data (which I guarantee they have). How many flippers are sitting on multiple copies of highly sought after (expensive) legends and flashbacks? How much are flippers (and their unlimited stubs) driving up prices for everyone else? SDS knows and could easily sell this to the vast majority of the customers under the (correct) guise of limiting market manipulation.
Nope, still wouldn't help. Remember when SDS gave numbers I think in 2020 about averages on perfects etc? People were like "Lol no way anyone is hitting that with perfects"
Again, the difference is everyone hits perfects, but very few people flip (even if they are over represented here). For probably 97%+ of their customers, a message of "we are limiting the market manipulation that has driven up prices with these measures" would be a resounding win.
You underestimate the reach of streamers and content creators. Even if someone has never even flipped, if they hear their content creator crying about how SDS is trying to crack down in "nms" players, they will complain to even if it doesn't actually effect them.
It won't affect sales at all. SDS needs to do what is best for the game and reigning in flipping is in the games' best interest, especially as we add more players/platforms. Far more people are going to complain when the million stub wait lists start by mid May this year than would ever complain from some show streamer who gets like 150 viewers.
They solved the wait list issue, it only popped up at the end of this year when people didn't want to play events. Flipping is always harder in the beginning and is only easy now because who's flipping at this point? No one needs stubs.
Also you can downplay what I've said all you want. (As evidenced by "than would ever complain from some show streamer who gets like 150 viewers."), you know full well there are streamers who get thousands of current viewers on a stream and guys like Koogs has almost 200k subscribers, but go ahead and say "Lol 150 viewer streams"
But you are assuming that all the streamers would complain. I would guess far less than you think would, especially if SDS PR was competent and reached out to some creators prior to rolling this out. Again, reigning in flipping is good for the game and needs to be done even in the face of short term criticism from the flippers.
Also, let me reiterate that this really only became an issue with the App. Prior to that the time requirement acted as its own restraint on flipping.
F$&k the streamers. They're losers who have no life and contribute nothing to society. Who cares what they think? Only a moron cares...
You can say that, but it doesn't change the fact in todays world there are a lot of "morons" and streamers have a large part in those "morons" loving or hating the game.
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