It's Time to Reign in Flipping
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Let's begin with the obvious: flipping in MLB the Show takes less than 2 active brain cells AND this is a baseball game not a stock market simulation.
Flipping in the show is only possible because the market in incredibly inefficient allowing for never ending arbitrage scenarios that never close like they should in a normally functioning market. In the past, flipping in the show was very time consuming due to the input mechanisms and thus limited its adoption and abuse by most customers, however, the MLBtS app has changed this dynamic and enables what amounts to market manipulation (whether intentional or not) by the flipper community.
Why does flipping need to be reigned in now? Because the flippers drastically inflate prices on desired cards making them harder to obtain for the majority of customers AND cost SDS money because those same high prices drastically reduce impulse stub purchases. This problem only really became an issue with the app.
Fixing flipping is pretty easy and requires very little programming. 1) limit the purchase of flashback and legend cards to 1 each (once you own a card you cannot buy additonal copies, but could still ear/open them), 2) scale the tax to sales (ie first 20 sales a day are at 10%, next 20 are at 20%, and so on), 3) limit purchases of all other cards to 20 (again can still open/earn more) of golds and lower and 10 each to diamonds. Those 3 limits would prevent flippers from ruining the market for the majority of the community that just wants to play baseball.
And yes, anyone can flip (I made over 12 million stubs from the Friday after Thanksgiving through the Sunday on my alt account last year). It is literally ruining the market.
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Flipping is fun af. Its too time consuming anymore for me so I prefer investing.
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Kill flipping kills the game commie
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@ikasnu_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
Flipping is fun af. Its too time consuming anymore for me so I prefer investing.
I didn't say it wasn't fun, but that it ruins the market for both SDS (ie stub sales) and the vast majority of the community who don't flip.
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Yeah killing flipping would be a PR nightmare and would signal to alot of people that SDS intends to move towards more aggressive monetization
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@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
Yeah killing flipping would be a PR nightmare and would signal to alot of people that SDS intends to move towards more aggressive monetization
I totally disagree. Very few customers flip (we know this because arbitrage wouldn't exist if lots of people did it). It also wouldn't mean more monetization, it would just mean that market prices wouldn't be influenced by flippers and that the stubs you earn in game would be more "valuable".
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@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
Yeah killing flipping would be a PR nightmare and would signal to alot of people that SDS intends to move towards more aggressive monetization
I totally disagree. Very few customers flip (we know this because arbitrage wouldn't exist if lots of people did it). It also wouldn't mean more monetization, it would just mean that market prices wouldn't be influenced by flippers and that the stubs you earn in game would be more "valuable".
Here is the thing, all those things "could" be true in a decision by SDS to curb it in, but I didn't write that SDS would be moving to more aggressive monetization, I said people would perceive it as such. It's the internet, people draw conclusions all the time and as I wrote, it would be a PR nightmare
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@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
Yeah killing flipping would be a PR nightmare and would signal to alot of people that SDS intends to move towards more aggressive monetization
I totally disagree. Very few customers flip (we know this because arbitrage wouldn't exist if lots of people did it). It also wouldn't mean more monetization, it would just mean that market prices wouldn't be influenced by flippers and that the stubs you earn in game would be more "valuable".
Here is the thing, all those things "could" be true in a decision by SDS to curb it in, but I didn't write that SDS would be moving to more aggressive monetization, I said people would perceive it as such. It's the internet, people draw conclusions all the time and as I wrote, it would be a PR nightmare
Not if they rolled it out with "market manipulation" data (which I guarantee they have). How many flippers are sitting on multiple copies of highly sought after (expensive) legends and flashbacks? How much are flippers (and their unlimited stubs) driving up prices for everyone else? SDS knows and could easily sell this to the vast majority of the customers under the (correct) guise of limiting market manipulation.
I don't think SDS would catch that much flack considering how amazing their free content is.
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@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
Yeah killing flipping would be a PR nightmare and would signal to alot of people that SDS intends to move towards more aggressive monetization
I totally disagree. Very few customers flip (we know this because arbitrage wouldn't exist if lots of people did it). It also wouldn't mean more monetization, it would just mean that market prices wouldn't be influenced by flippers and that the stubs you earn in game would be more "valuable".
Here is the thing, all those things "could" be true in a decision by SDS to curb it in, but I didn't write that SDS would be moving to more aggressive monetization, I said people would perceive it as such. It's the internet, people draw conclusions all the time and as I wrote, it would be a PR nightmare
Not if they rolled it out with "market manipulation" data (which I guarantee they have). How many flippers are sitting on multiple copies of highly sought after (expensive) legends and flashbacks? How much are flippers (and their unlimited stubs) driving up prices for everyone else? SDS knows and could easily sell this to the vast majority of the customers under the (correct) guise of limiting market manipulation.
Nope, still wouldn't help. Remember when SDS gave numbers I think in 2020 about averages on perfects etc? People were like "Lol no way anyone is hitting that with perfects"
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@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
Yeah killing flipping would be a PR nightmare and would signal to alot of people that SDS intends to move towards more aggressive monetization
I totally disagree. Very few customers flip (we know this because arbitrage wouldn't exist if lots of people did it). It also wouldn't mean more monetization, it would just mean that market prices wouldn't be influenced by flippers and that the stubs you earn in game would be more "valuable".
Here is the thing, all those things "could" be true in a decision by SDS to curb it in, but I didn't write that SDS would be moving to more aggressive monetization, I said people would perceive it as such. It's the internet, people draw conclusions all the time and as I wrote, it would be a PR nightmare
Not if they rolled it out with "market manipulation" data (which I guarantee they have). How many flippers are sitting on multiple copies of highly sought after (expensive) legends and flashbacks? How much are flippers (and their unlimited stubs) driving up prices for everyone else? SDS knows and could easily sell this to the vast majority of the customers under the (correct) guise of limiting market manipulation.
Nope, still wouldn't help. Remember when SDS gave numbers I think in 2020 about averages on perfects etc? People were like "Lol no way anyone is hitting that with perfects"
Again, the difference is everyone hits perfects, but very few people flip (even if they are over represented here). For probably 97%+ of their customers, a message of "we are limiting the market manipulation that has driven up prices with these measures" would be a resounding win.
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@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
Yeah killing flipping would be a PR nightmare and would signal to alot of people that SDS intends to move towards more aggressive monetization
I totally disagree. Very few customers flip (we know this because arbitrage wouldn't exist if lots of people did it). It also wouldn't mean more monetization, it would just mean that market prices wouldn't be influenced by flippers and that the stubs you earn in game would be more "valuable".
Here is the thing, all those things "could" be true in a decision by SDS to curb it in, but I didn't write that SDS would be moving to more aggressive monetization, I said people would perceive it as such. It's the internet, people draw conclusions all the time and as I wrote, it would be a PR nightmare
Not if they rolled it out with "market manipulation" data (which I guarantee they have). How many flippers are sitting on multiple copies of highly sought after (expensive) legends and flashbacks? How much are flippers (and their unlimited stubs) driving up prices for everyone else? SDS knows and could easily sell this to the vast majority of the customers under the (correct) guise of limiting market manipulation.
Nope, still wouldn't help. Remember when SDS gave numbers I think in 2020 about averages on perfects etc? People were like "Lol no way anyone is hitting that with perfects"
Again, the difference is everyone hits perfects, but very few people flip (even if they are over represented here). For probably 97%+ of their customers, a message of "we are limiting the market manipulation that has driven up prices with these measures" would be a resounding win.
You underestimate the reach of streamers and content creators. Even if someone has never even flipped, if they hear their content creator crying about how SDS is trying to crack down in "nms" players, they will complain to even if it doesn't actually effect them.
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If people want to waste their time flipping, who cares? You can get more than enough stubs just by playing. I never spent any time flipping on the market and I’m sitting at around 11 million stubs right now.
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@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
Yeah killing flipping would be a PR nightmare and would signal to alot of people that SDS intends to move towards more aggressive monetization
I totally disagree. Very few customers flip (we know this because arbitrage wouldn't exist if lots of people did it). It also wouldn't mean more monetization, it would just mean that market prices wouldn't be influenced by flippers and that the stubs you earn in game would be more "valuable".
Here is the thing, all those things "could" be true in a decision by SDS to curb it in, but I didn't write that SDS would be moving to more aggressive monetization, I said people would perceive it as such. It's the internet, people draw conclusions all the time and as I wrote, it would be a PR nightmare
Not if they rolled it out with "market manipulation" data (which I guarantee they have). How many flippers are sitting on multiple copies of highly sought after (expensive) legends and flashbacks? How much are flippers (and their unlimited stubs) driving up prices for everyone else? SDS knows and could easily sell this to the vast majority of the customers under the (correct) guise of limiting market manipulation.
Nope, still wouldn't help. Remember when SDS gave numbers I think in 2020 about averages on perfects etc? People were like "Lol no way anyone is hitting that with perfects"
Again, the difference is everyone hits perfects, but very few people flip (even if they are over represented here). For probably 97%+ of their customers, a message of "we are limiting the market manipulation that has driven up prices with these measures" would be a resounding win.
You underestimate the reach of streamers and content creators. Even if someone has never even flipped, if they hear their content creator crying about how SDS is trying to crack down in "nms" players, they will complain to even if it doesn't actually effect them.
It won't affect sales at all. SDS needs to do what is best for the game and reigning in flipping is in the games' best interest, especially as we add more players/platforms. Far more people are going to complain when the million stub wait lists start by mid May this year than would ever complain from some show streamer who gets like 150 viewers.
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Why does flipping need to be reigned in now? Because the flippers drastically inflate prices on desired cards
Not true in the slightest. Flippers actually decrease prices because they’re constantly undercutting each other.
What inflates prices are the LTO card offerings combined with collection requirements.
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@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
Yeah killing flipping would be a PR nightmare and would signal to alot of people that SDS intends to move towards more aggressive monetization
I totally disagree. Very few customers flip (we know this because arbitrage wouldn't exist if lots of people did it). It also wouldn't mean more monetization, it would just mean that market prices wouldn't be influenced by flippers and that the stubs you earn in game would be more "valuable".
Here is the thing, all those things "could" be true in a decision by SDS to curb it in, but I didn't write that SDS would be moving to more aggressive monetization, I said people would perceive it as such. It's the internet, people draw conclusions all the time and as I wrote, it would be a PR nightmare
Not if they rolled it out with "market manipulation" data (which I guarantee they have). How many flippers are sitting on multiple copies of highly sought after (expensive) legends and flashbacks? How much are flippers (and their unlimited stubs) driving up prices for everyone else? SDS knows and could easily sell this to the vast majority of the customers under the (correct) guise of limiting market manipulation.
Nope, still wouldn't help. Remember when SDS gave numbers I think in 2020 about averages on perfects etc? People were like "Lol no way anyone is hitting that with perfects"
Again, the difference is everyone hits perfects, but very few people flip (even if they are over represented here). For probably 97%+ of their customers, a message of "we are limiting the market manipulation that has driven up prices with these measures" would be a resounding win.
You underestimate the reach of streamers and content creators. Even if someone has never even flipped, if they hear their content creator crying about how SDS is trying to crack down in "nms" players, they will complain to even if it doesn't actually effect them.
It won't affect sales at all. SDS needs to do what is best for the game and reigning in flipping is in the games' best interest, especially as we add more players/platforms. Far more people are going to complain when the million stub wait lists start by mid May this year than would ever complain from some show streamer who gets like 150 viewers.
They solved the wait list issue, it only popped up at the end of this year when people didn't want to play events. Flipping is always harder in the beginning and is only easy now because who's flipping at this point? No one needs stubs.
Also you can downplay what I've said all you want. (As evidenced by "than would ever complain from some show streamer who gets like 150 viewers."), you know full well there are streamers who get thousands of current viewers on a stream and guys like Koogs has almost 200k subscribers, but go ahead and say "Lol 150 viewer streams"
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@savefarris_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
Why does flipping need to be reigned in now? Because the flippers drastically inflate prices on desired cards
Not true in the slightest. Flippers actually decrease prices because they’re constantly undercutting each other.
What inflates prices are the LTO card offerings combined with collection requirements.
Not true. Flippers undercut on what gets flipped, not what they "buy". Flipping is done on golds. perks, equipment, etc. It isn't done on Gehrigs and Turners. Flippers drive up the prices on the most sought after cards because they can afford to pay "any" price (hence why both Victorino and Lucroy started out with tons of max bids).
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@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
Yeah killing flipping would be a PR nightmare and would signal to alot of people that SDS intends to move towards more aggressive monetization
I totally disagree. Very few customers flip (we know this because arbitrage wouldn't exist if lots of people did it). It also wouldn't mean more monetization, it would just mean that market prices wouldn't be influenced by flippers and that the stubs you earn in game would be more "valuable".
Here is the thing, all those things "could" be true in a decision by SDS to curb it in, but I didn't write that SDS would be moving to more aggressive monetization, I said people would perceive it as such. It's the internet, people draw conclusions all the time and as I wrote, it would be a PR nightmare
Not if they rolled it out with "market manipulation" data (which I guarantee they have). How many flippers are sitting on multiple copies of highly sought after (expensive) legends and flashbacks? How much are flippers (and their unlimited stubs) driving up prices for everyone else? SDS knows and could easily sell this to the vast majority of the customers under the (correct) guise of limiting market manipulation.
Nope, still wouldn't help. Remember when SDS gave numbers I think in 2020 about averages on perfects etc? People were like "Lol no way anyone is hitting that with perfects"
Again, the difference is everyone hits perfects, but very few people flip (even if they are over represented here). For probably 97%+ of their customers, a message of "we are limiting the market manipulation that has driven up prices with these measures" would be a resounding win.
You underestimate the reach of streamers and content creators. Even if someone has never even flipped, if they hear their content creator crying about how SDS is trying to crack down in "nms" players, they will complain to even if it doesn't actually effect them.
It won't affect sales at all. SDS needs to do what is best for the game and reigning in flipping is in the games' best interest, especially as we add more players/platforms. Far more people are going to complain when the million stub wait lists start by mid May this year than would ever complain from some show streamer who gets like 150 viewers.
They solved the wait list issue, it only popped up at the end of this year when people didn't want to play events. Flipping is always harder in the beginning and is only easy now because who's flipping at this point? No one needs stubs.
Also you can downplay what I've said all you want. (As evidenced by "than would ever complain from some show streamer who gets like 150 viewers."), you know full well there are streamers who get thousands of current viewers on a stream and guys like Koogs has almost 200k subscribers, but go ahead and say "Lol 150 viewer streams"
But you are assuming that all the streamers would complain. I would guess far less than you think would, especially if SDS PR was competent and reached out to some creators prior to rolling this out. Again, reigning in flipping is good for the game and needs to be done even in the face of short term criticism from the flippers.
Also, let me reiterate that this really only became an issue with the App. Prior to that the time requirement acted as its own restraint on flipping.
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@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
Yeah killing flipping would be a PR nightmare and would signal to alot of people that SDS intends to move towards more aggressive monetization
I totally disagree. Very few customers flip (we know this because arbitrage wouldn't exist if lots of people did it). It also wouldn't mean more monetization, it would just mean that market prices wouldn't be influenced by flippers and that the stubs you earn in game would be more "valuable".
Here is the thing, all those things "could" be true in a decision by SDS to curb it in, but I didn't write that SDS would be moving to more aggressive monetization, I said people would perceive it as such. It's the internet, people draw conclusions all the time and as I wrote, it would be a PR nightmare
Not if they rolled it out with "market manipulation" data (which I guarantee they have). How many flippers are sitting on multiple copies of highly sought after (expensive) legends and flashbacks? How much are flippers (and their unlimited stubs) driving up prices for everyone else? SDS knows and could easily sell this to the vast majority of the customers under the (correct) guise of limiting market manipulation.
Nope, still wouldn't help. Remember when SDS gave numbers I think in 2020 about averages on perfects etc? People were like "Lol no way anyone is hitting that with perfects"
Again, the difference is everyone hits perfects, but very few people flip (even if they are over represented here). For probably 97%+ of their customers, a message of "we are limiting the market manipulation that has driven up prices with these measures" would be a resounding win.
You underestimate the reach of streamers and content creators. Even if someone has never even flipped, if they hear their content creator crying about how SDS is trying to crack down in "nms" players, they will complain to even if it doesn't actually effect them.
It won't affect sales at all. SDS needs to do what is best for the game and reigning in flipping is in the games' best interest, especially as we add more players/platforms. Far more people are going to complain when the million stub wait lists start by mid May this year than would ever complain from some show streamer who gets like 150 viewers.
They solved the wait list issue, it only popped up at the end of this year when people didn't want to play events. Flipping is always harder in the beginning and is only easy now because who's flipping at this point? No one needs stubs.
Also you can downplay what I've said all you want. (As evidenced by "than would ever complain from some show streamer who gets like 150 viewers."), you know full well there are streamers who get thousands of current viewers on a stream and guys like Koogs has almost 200k subscribers, but go ahead and say "Lol 150 viewer streams"
But you are assuming that all the streamers would complain. I would guess far less than you think would, especially if SDS PR was competent and reached out to some creators prior to rolling this out. Again, reigning in flipping is good for the game and needs to be done even in the face of short term criticism from the flippers.
You can continue to believe that, but I don't agree with your conclusions and you are basing it purely on speculation, (To be fair everyone is since we don't actually know what the outcome would be, but your conclusions aren't facts, mine aren't either).
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@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@gradekthebard said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
@eatyum_psn said in It's Time to Reign in Flipping:
Yeah killing flipping would be a PR nightmare and would signal to alot of people that SDS intends to move towards more aggressive monetization
I totally disagree. Very few customers flip (we know this because arbitrage wouldn't exist if lots of people did it). It also wouldn't mean more monetization, it would just mean that market prices wouldn't be influenced by flippers and that the stubs you earn in game would be more "valuable".
Here is the thing, all those things "could" be true in a decision by SDS to curb it in, but I didn't write that SDS would be moving to more aggressive monetization, I said people would perceive it as such. It's the internet, people draw conclusions all the time and as I wrote, it would be a PR nightmare
Not if they rolled it out with "market manipulation" data (which I guarantee they have). How many flippers are sitting on multiple copies of highly sought after (expensive) legends and flashbacks? How much are flippers (and their unlimited stubs) driving up prices for everyone else? SDS knows and could easily sell this to the vast majority of the customers under the (correct) guise of limiting market manipulation.
Nope, still wouldn't help. Remember when SDS gave numbers I think in 2020 about averages on perfects etc? People were like "Lol no way anyone is hitting that with perfects"
Again, the difference is everyone hits perfects, but very few people flip (even if they are over represented here). For probably 97%+ of their customers, a message of "we are limiting the market manipulation that has driven up prices with these measures" would be a resounding win.
You underestimate the reach of streamers and content creators. Even if someone has never even flipped, if they hear their content creator crying about how SDS is trying to crack down in "nms" players, they will complain to even if it doesn't actually effect them.
It won't affect sales at all. SDS needs to do what is best for the game and reigning in flipping is in the games' best interest, especially as we add more players/platforms. Far more people are going to complain when the million stub wait lists start by mid May this year than would ever complain from some show streamer who gets like 150 viewers.
They solved the wait list issue, it only popped up at the end of this year when people didn't want to play events. Flipping is always harder in the beginning and is only easy now because who's flipping at this point? No one needs stubs.
Also you can downplay what I've said all you want. (As evidenced by "than would ever complain from some show streamer who gets like 150 viewers."), you know full well there are streamers who get thousands of current viewers on a stream and guys like Koogs has almost 200k subscribers, but go ahead and say "Lol 150 viewer streams"
But you are assuming that all the streamers would complain. I would guess far less than you think would, especially if SDS PR was competent and reached out to some creators prior to rolling this out. Again, reigning in flipping is good for the game and needs to be done even in the face of short term criticism from the flippers.
You can continue to believe that, but I don't agree with your conclusions and you are basing it purely on speculation, (To be fair everyone is since we don't actually know what the outcome would be, but your conclusions aren't facts, mine aren't either).
Actually, I am basing it on relatively basic economics, but sure I don't have the exact numbers of flippers, stubs made flipping, or stored inventories.
